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robert325 plz help! i have questons abt the COWS test!
  1. #1
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    Default robert325 plz help! i have questons abt the COWS test!

    1st of all im not really understandibg how to get to a 26, i keep getting low numbers. And how do u check ur pluse rate/. and if u do go into precip w/d will taking more suboxone get u out of it? and do i have to wait until the tramadol n naproxone r out of my system too or just the ocs?

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEEDShelp26 View Post
    1st of all im not really understandibg how to get to a 26, i keep getting low numbers. And how do u check ur pluse rate/. and if u do go into precip w/d will taking more suboxone get u out of it? and do i have to wait until the tramadol n naproxone r out of my system too or just the ocs?




    If you get low numbers consistently you aren't ready to be inducted on subs. You can count your heart beats on your wrist for 30 seconds and double it, that will be your total pulse rate or else buy an inexpensive blood pressure / pulse rate cuff at the pharmacy.

    If you do this wrong you will go into precipitated w/d and you DON'T just keep taking more and more suboxone, you STOP totally and do the induction process over again properly.

    I can induct you here if you'll follow my suggestions. And you don't take ANY tramadol, Naproxone, oxy or ANYTHING else while you're waiting to reach that 26 minimum score on the COWS worksheet. All the meds do is keep your score low and mask the symptoms so you won't ever know if you are ready to be inducted.

    Hope that helps. Let me know if you want me to induct you here. God bless.
    ben aus likes this.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  3. #3
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    yes plz do.. how do u induct some1?

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEEDShelp26 View Post
    yes plz do.. how do u induct some1?



    The first thing is you need to reach that 26 score minimum on the COWS worksheet. Where are you scoring now? If I start the induction process before your body is ready you'll get so sick you won't believe how badly you feel.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  5. #5
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    i just got a 24, i was at a 20 yesterday n i havent taken anything since 6pm

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEEDShelp26 View Post
    i just got a 24, i was at a 20 yesterday n i havent taken anything since 6pm



    Then you're getting close. Not doubting you but we ALL have a tendency to cut ourselves a little slack in the scoring, it's only natural. Let's give it a few hours and post back to me.

    I have to go by what you say on the scoring as I can't see you personally. But we need to be sure. I have almost 11:00 in my time zone. Don't know where you are but post back to me in three hours and score yourself again before you post letting me know the score.

    Remember an HONEST 26 is the MINIMUM. I'm just trying to look out for your benefit. Talk in three hours. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  7. #7
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    k i think im at a 28 now

  8. #8
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEEDShelp26 View Post
    k i think im at a 28 now



    I can only go by what you say. If you say you're a 28 then take 2mg of subs now and wait for at least an hour and post back to me telling me how you feel. The goal is to induct you on the lowest possible dose so we need to allow ample time for each increment of the induction dose to have time to take full effects.

    After we see how you feel in 60-90 minutes we'll see how much more you need to take if any. Talk to you then. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  9. #9
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    k i dont really feel better, byt it was a small 1/4 of the pill

  10. #10
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEEDShelp26 View Post
    k i dont really feel better, byt it was a small 1/4 of the pill




    It may take us a few hours to get you to your right dose. I don't do like sub drs do and just tell you to take a whole pill at once as you likely don't need that much. Hardly ANYONE needs a whole pill.

    Take 2mg more but let's give it at least an hour this time. You didn't wait quite an hour and that should be a minimum amount of time to give the subs time to work.

    I'll talk with you again after a GOOD HOUR to ninety minutes. God bless..
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  11. #11
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    how would u kno if ur in percip w/d? would it have already happened? cuz i just feel kinda the same

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEEDShelp26 View Post
    how would u kno if ur in percip w/d? would it have already happened? cuz i just feel kinda the same




    This is one of the reasons also that I start with small doses. You have been given two doses now. If you were in precipitated w/d you would know it by now. You would be sick as hell. Just give that second dose time to work. You'll be okay if you haven't felt the precip w/d by now. Hope that helps. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  13. #13
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    well i havent taken the 2nd one yet cuz im afraid of tht happening..

  14. #14
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEEDShelp26 View Post
    well i havent taken the 2nd one yet cuz im afraid of tht happening..


    You are okay. If you want just take 1mg for now and give it an hour. It's been about the right amount of time now.

    If you were going into precip w/d you would be feeling it already. Trust me is all I can tell you. I've done this a lot of times. Just take the 1mg for now and post back in an hour. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  15. #15
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    i feel better but not all the way still

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEEDShelp26 View Post
    i feel better but not all the way still



    That is what I wanted to hear. So you've taken 3mg right? Take 1mg again now and post back to me in an hour.

    The main thing is doing this process correctly during induction. You're heading in the right direction and we'll have you feeling good today I promise if you just stick with me. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  17. #17
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    i feel better now.. thnk u.. so if i take naproxone or tramadol will tht effect the subs?

  18. #18
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEEDShelp26 View Post
    i feel better now.. thnk u.. so if i take naproxone or tramadol will tht effect the subs?



    So I am assuming you ended up on 4mg? Is that correct? Haven't heard from you since this afternoon. The induction is a four day process doing it correctly.

    You ABSOLUTELY do NOT want to take ANY Tramadol with subs. Trams work the same brain receptors as hydrocodone or percs or other opiates. If you have body aches Naproxen or other NSAIDS like ibuprofen, celebrex, etc are okay.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  19. #19
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    i think it was more like 5mg... and so if u take anything tht is in the same class it will make u sick? cuz i had thought i had taken it w/ subs before but i didnt kno it was a opiate..

  20. #20
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    5mg is good. Don't mess it up with trams. They are a different class of drug than oxy is for example, but they work on the same brain receptors and will mess up even bothering with the subs.

    Trams act as a full agonist meaning they totally cover the brain receptors that produce natural endorphines. Subs are a partial agonist which allow the receptors to start working again while you still get help with them partially working like other opiates.

    If you're going to take trams then blow off the subs. That is the bottom line it will be a total waste of time bothering with this if you go to trams while using subs. People use subs to get off trams just like other opiates. Don't do it. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  21. #21
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    oh ok, thanks for ur help.. so trams r addictive like ocs r??? n for example if u were taking trams for like a month would u get dope sick like ocs?? cuz they were letting me take them at rehab n i didnt find out until later tht they were a opiate...

  22. #22
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEEDShelp26 View Post
    oh ok, thanks for ur help.. so trams r addictive like ocs r??? n for example if u were taking trams for like a month would u get dope sick like ocs?? cuz they were letting me take them at rehab n i didnt find out until later tht they were a opiate...



    I can't help what they did at rehab. I'm just telling you that you shouldn't use trams with subs. It's your call. I was just trying to help you through the sub induction. Just let me know what you intend to do. Thanks. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    Robert is right, I got tramadol from a friend when I was quitting subs, I thought it would help with the pain, but it completely stopped my w/d. So I had to stop taking those. Naprooxen is okay to take.

  24. #24
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    so as in it just put off ur w/d until u stop taking the trams? i havent taken any yet, but im just trying to understand wht they do since i thought they were okay to take...

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEEDShelp26 View Post
    so as in it just put off ur w/d until u stop taking the trams? i havent taken any yet, but im just trying to understand wht they do since i thought they were okay to take...



    I'm sorry but you're mistaken. People use subs to get off trams. They work on the same brain receptors as other opiates stopping endorphine production plus they affect your nervous system. So why would you think it would be okay to take them with subs? Would you think it would be okay to take hydrocodone with subs? It's basically the same thing.

    If some dr gave you tramadol or told you it was okay to take trams while you're taking subs while you were in a rehab he or she is an ignorant dr. I deal with stupid drs all the time. You even said you realized they were an opiate. That says it all. The bottom line is you don't take tramadol with subs. I can't help you if you choose that route. I would be spinning my wheels trying to help you and so would you. God bless.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 04-28-2011 at 08:38 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  26. #26
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    oh ok, i get it now, thanks for ur help! i feel normal today thankfully..

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    Robert325 I have been doing oxy 80mg for about a year I have not did any since yesterday morning and I have no symptoms of wd I am weird though my pain tolerance is high when should I start my subutex

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    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdog1966 View Post
    Robert325 I have been doing oxy 80mg for about a year I have not did any since yesterday morning and I have no symptoms of wd I am weird though my pain tolerance is high when should I start my subutex
    Hi there. Robert is retired from this forum, but there are many of us who can help you properly induct on Sub. You need to gauge your WD symptoms using the COWS worksheet. You must score at least 26 before taking Sub or you'll risk going into precipitated WD. Trust me, you don't want that. It's beyond awful.

    Please make a new thread on the Suboxone Treatment board. You'll get lots of help and support from people who have gone through it, including myself. I'll look for your new thread and will post the link to the COWS worksheet and Sub induction/taper plan. Actually, if you go to the Suboxone Treatment board, the Sub plan is the very first thread there - it's called Sub Therapy.

    I'll check back soon. Don't worry, you're in good hands!
    Kat

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