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Suboxone Question
  1. #1
    mdg11 is offline Member
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    Default Suboxone Question

    Hello

    I know this has probably already been asked, but can not specifically find the answer I am looking for.

    My fiance will be starting suboxone on Monday or Tuesday. From what I understand and he has told me I guess he has been taking at least 120mg of oxy.

    I know there are horror stories about suboxone and to not get on it, but with what I have read, it seems to be the best way to ween yourself off. I have printed off Robert's FAQ's as well as the suboxone therapy page.

    This taper plan, from my understanding eliminates the w/d's if done properly. However when reading the FAQ w/d's will be experienced. Can anyone verify this? I have heard back and forth that it would be easier to taper off oxy than subs. I'm just concerned this is not the best option for him. I do know his biggest fear of w/d's is sleeping. But I have been under the impression w/d's are not experienced using Robert's taper plan.

    any insight would be helpful!

  2. #2
    RubyDean is offline Member
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    From what I Have seen and read, if done properly, from the induction to the taper, Robert can get anybody off subs with very little to no discomfort at all. The key is to listen to him and do it exactly like he says. The induction is the most critical part. If your husband is on 120mg of oxy a day, he can realistically start suboxone at 8mg per day, and be off in 2 months. If he starts at a higher dose, or stays on too long it could be more of a challenge, but still work okay. The thing about tapering off our drug of choice is it is very hard, and takes a lot of will power. You would most likely have to do it for him, and trust that he wont sneak around your back and get more. I have seen it done, but it is very hard for addicts to do this. With suboxone it is an many cases more affordable, and safer in my opinion. If I were you I would talk to Robert and make a plan. Your husband can be free and off opiates in 2 months. This method has less chance of relapse in my experience...but this is just my thoughts on your situation. Good luck with him, and hopefully his heart is on it. Nobody can make an addict get clean, they have to want it for themselves, and want it bad. Many blessings.

  3. #3
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Ruby Dean is correct. He should NOT have w/d problems if he listens to the suggestions. He should let me help him with the induction which takes four days when I do it. Get his meds from the dr and then get on here and lets keep that dose small. He may even do better than 8mg like Ruby Dean mentioned. I usually can induct most people at 4-6mg. So let me know when he's ready to begin. Don't let the dr convince him that he needs to be any 16mg like so many of them do it. God bless.

  4. #4
    mdg11 is offline Member
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    Thank you so much RubyDean and Robert! I feel so much better about doing this!

    He has yet to get on this site and am encouraging him to look around as you are all so inspirational!

    I will get in touch again on Monday after we visit the Dr.

    I am very hopeful!

  5. #5
    mdg11 is offline Member
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    Default help?

    Hi

    as I had specified my fiance will be going to the dr monday morning at 9:30am to request to be prescribed suboxone.

    I'm kind of at a loss as to what to do at this point???

    He is out of his own oxy, today. I understand he needs to be in a state of severe w/d before being given the sub, right? would it be in our best interest to start the w/d tomorrow, sunday in order to immediatly begin the subs on Monday?

    I'm not really sure how what to do at this point. Robert can you assist me? I'm scared to do this and scared for him -he needs to do this the right way.

    I need to talk to him later today to explain all that will be going on and want to give him the right information.

    I'm certain this "talk" will only happen once before we go on Monday. Is there any information you need from him to do this properly?

    I am giving myself to you to help me help him and I'm scared to death I'm not doing it right. he is ready for help.

    Thank you so much.

  6. #6
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdg11 View Post
    Hi

    as I had specified my fiance will be going to the dr monday morning at 9:30am to request to be prescribed suboxone.

    I'm kind of at a loss as to what to do at this point???

    He is out of his own oxy, today. I understand he needs to be in a state of severe w/d before being given the sub, right? would it be in our best interest to start the w/d tomorrow, sunday in order to immediatly begin the subs on Monday?

    I'm not really sure how what to do at this point. Robert can you assist me? I'm scared to do this and scared for him -he needs to do this the right way.

    I need to talk to him later today to explain all that will be going on and want to give him the right information.

    I'm certain this "talk" will only happen once before we go on Monday. Is there any information you need from him to do this properly?

    I am giving myself to you to help me help him and I'm scared to death I'm not doing it right. he is ready for help.

    Thank you so much.




    Sorry to say that there is ONE really tough part of using subs properly. And it's one of the most important parts. He's got to be at an accumulative score of 26 minimum on the COWS (clinical opioid w/d scale) worksheet before he is inducted on Monday. I will post a link at the end of this reply. Starting tomorrow would be a mistake. How many hours right now since he last had any oxy? That is very important for my answer. I'll wait for your reply. Here is the link. Read and we can discuss that when you reply. If you'll make special note of the INDUCTION section it discusses what you guys are experiencing and there is also a link there to the COWS worksheet. I'll watch for your reply. God bless.

    https://www.drugs.com/forum/featured...apy-50887.html

  7. #7
    methadonfriendly826 is offline Junior Member
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    Default just moderate w/d

    You do not have to be in severe w/d. Just moderate w/d. It is not necessary to put yourself through that. If i were you i would let him only take one or two on sunday, they usually dont dose you for a couple hours the first day. Just curious is it as expensive where you are as it is where i am? Im in KY and its like 450 dollars out here for induction. And they dont accept insurance. Its almost too expensive.

  8. #8
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Quote Originally Posted by methadonfriendly826 View Post
    You do not have to be in severe w/d. Just moderate w/d. It is not necessary to put yourself through that. If i were you i would let him only take one or two on sunday, they usually dont dose you for a couple hours the first day. Just curious is it as expensive where you are as it is where i am? Im in KY and its like 450 dollars out here for induction. And they dont accept insurance. Its almost too expensive.





    She hasn't answered the freakin question yet! You're going to get people sick telling them the same stupid advice you give over and again on this forum. Everyone is sick of your trash talk bud. Why don't you keep to yourself. No one here wants to hear your BS advice and telling people what scumbags they are, how everyone but you is messed up. Get lost. Now you can come back with some more trash talk and I don't care. Won't take the time to reply again. You're so not worth it.

  9. #9
    mdg11 is offline Member
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    Thanks for the link again.

    i am not certain as to what time he had some, my guess is it was around 2pm today. He's still sleeping....

    I knew he had to be at a 26 to work properly. For some reason i was thinking it would be right around the 24 hour mark to reach that point. Am I wishful thinking?

    When suboxone is prescribed, is it just a script we would get filled? and then how long until it starts working once the first dose is taken?

    I don't know, maybe it is too soon, but when I was notified that he was out, and knowing he had to have w/d's to start the subs, it was kind of like-oh perfect timing, go to the dr and by noon, he'll be back on the come back trail.

  10. #10
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    The thing is that if you go get him a refill now it could really mess up the induction. If he still had some I would say he could take a couple right now and then no more until the induction. I wouldn't go get another script.

    If he has access to a couple (that is 2) right now that would be okay. But I wouldn't push it anymore than that. Don't have him taking pills tomorrow at all and preferably not any later than now or thereabouts. That's my best advice.

    The suboxone should come to you in a script that you fill at a pharmacy unless you have a real bandit dr who sells them during the induction. They can actually do that legally for the induction. Suboxone will make him well as soon as he is stabilized. If you get the meds and come home I can have stable in a couple hours max and at 8mg total or LESS probably.

    Stay in touch. God bless.

  11. #11
    mdg11 is offline Member
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    Thanks Robert

    I will check back in later after I discuss things with him. I'm afraid by the time this happens it may be too late for him to take his last dose, that is if he has any more to take.

    as far as his dr. i'm sure he'll write him a script, this guy seems to hand out whatever the patient wants.

    I'll get back in touch. Thank you so much. i guess this helps me as well with my sanity.

  12. #12
    mdg11 is offline Member
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    2 30mg of morphine was taken about 2:00 today.

    Any insight as to what to do now? I have very unhappy individual, not believe he will make it.

  13. #13
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Can you get him a couple percs or hydrocodones easily? About any opiate would do that would get him out of w/d. But then he needs to stick it out after that. Before he does the induction on subs he is going to be kicking and screaming and saying, " To hell with what that goofy guy on the internet forum says." When that happens then I can do an induction so easily and so quickly you won't believe it. But if he messes around tomorrow taking opiates then he's going to regret it. He'll end up on a high dose and be struggling just like all the others you read about here.

    What time zone are you in? I'm Pacific time so it helps when I make a suggestion knowing the time of day. Hope that you can help him with this today. God bless.

  14. #14
    mdg11 is offline Member
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    I don't know. He hasn't started any w/d's as of yet. i took his "last 2" morphine that he had.

    If he doesn't have anything the rest of tonight, will monday morning be too long of a w/d period?

    He really doesn't want to talk to me anymore, other than to leave him alone. and does not want to do it. he does not want to go through the next day and half.

    I did find one tablet of cyclobenyaprine hydrochloride ER 15 mg. I'm not sure what that is yet. it's a sample so just one.

    I'm counting on you, I am confident you know what you are talking about.

    I'll have to confirm, I think we aer in eastern time zone, Michigan.

  15. #15
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Cyclobenzaprine is a muscle relaxer. It's perfectly ok to give it to him. Please understand I'm not saying he can't have anything until Monday. I'm saying if he's going to take anything it needs to be this evening. After he gets up tomorrow he shouldn't be taking anymore opiates.

    If he isn't into doing this it's not going to work. Suboxone isn't a miracle it's just a medication. He still has to want to get clean and be willing to do the induction properly if he wants this to go smoothly like it can if it's done right. But you and I can do so much towards that. He has to be committed and sold on doing this deal or we're spinning our wheels. God bless.

  16. #16
    mdg11 is offline Member
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    would a 30 mg morphone be ok tonight, any certain time? I want to make sure that he is in the full state of w/d at 26 when we get that sub filled so he starts to feel better.

    i'm worried he will be in a state of w/d enough to take the sub prior to monday. is this possible?

    I'm not quite sure I understand the COWS sheet. at the very top, baseline, how does all of that work? first dose given, etc. and when do I start to monitor this?

    I hope I can get him through this and he can stay the little tiniest bit of hopeful. I assured him it is a day and a half for the rest of his life.

  17. #17
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    I couldn't have said it better ... a day and a half for the rest of his life. Where is the downside to that deal???

    He is ready to be inducted when he reaches the 26. Yes it could be before Monday. That's why we use that worksheet so we don't have a clock to go by. If you had the meds now we could wait it out and I could do this for you the second he is ready. That is what my first preference is. Next choice is the dr gives you a script and let's you leave. Then we can do it right here. Last choice is the dr doing the induction and convincing him that he needs 16mg or some stupid nonsense like that.

    If you will let me help you guys through the induction you won't have to worry about the ongoing part of the worksheet. Once we begin the induction I can walk you right through every step. If you just monitor his symptoms and score him based on the current symptoms in the appropriate place on the worksheet you'll know when he's ready. But it's impossible to tell you what the exact time is that he can use up to.

    He can take 30mg morphine tonight as that sounds like what he's been on along anyway. Give it to him up in the evening so it will last the longest. Then when he gets up in the morning it's "tough it out" until the next morning. That's my best advice. God bless.

  18. #18
    mdg11 is offline Member
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    ok. I'll give him a morphine pill tonight.

    yeah, I'm not sure what this Dr. will want to do. My plan was, to request them be in 2mg tabs and NOT do as the Dr. suggests.

    This is the first time he's taken morphine. up until last night he had been taking at least 120mg of oxy. My guess is the morphine was all he could get his hands on.

    so it's 9pm our time, I'm thinking maybe i'll give it to him at 1am.

    So you will keep track of the sheet, if we go first thing in the morning and I score him at at least a 26...since we will be on the road, once we get the script filled, do you think it would be safe to give him a 2mg tab?

  19. #19
    mdg11 is offline Member
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    i keep forgetting to ask....can he have anything else like tylenol, immodium that sorta stuff?

    I apologize for my frantic non-stop questions.

  20. #20
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdg11 View Post
    ok. I'll give him a morphine pill tonight.

    yeah, I'm not sure what this Dr. will want to do. My plan was, to request them be in 2mg tabs and NOT do as the Dr. suggests.

    This is the first time he's taken morphine. up until last night he had been taking at least 120mg of oxy. My guess is the morphine was all he could get his hands on.

    so it's 9pm our time, I'm thinking maybe i'll give it to him at 1am.

    So you will keep track of the sheet, if we go first thing in the morning and I score him at at least a 26...since we will be on the road, once we get the script filled, do you think it would be safe to give him a 2mg tab?

    mdg11 i keep forgetting to ask....can he have anything else like tylenol, immodium that sorta stuff?

    I apologize for my frantic non-stop questions






    Just relax! You're sounding like you are needing an induction yourself.

    I give you my word that if you will communicate with me right here that when we agree he is at a 26 score then you give him the first 2mg dose. But please let's do this together. I can't emphasize that enough. I will tell you that I have NEVER had one single person that I did the induction with that didn't succeed with subs if they listened to me. And we'll have him off the subs too in a couple months. All he has to do is follow instructions. That's all I ask.

    He will be okay on the morphine if he was taking that much oxy daily. I was taking thirty 30mg roxies (oxycodone) each day plus all kinds of other garbage after using 35 years. Subs worked for me and they CAN work for him too if he will just go along with the program.

    Just communicate with me and we'll walk him through a perfect induction. You'll be shocked at what a low dose he's at and we'll have him feeling perfect or close to it. God bless.

  21. #21
    mdg11 is offline Member
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    I know I am an emotional nut right now, freaked out.

    So is that a negative on the immodium? I'm not certain but do not believe he had anythign last night and was starting to "fish out" and on the stool about every hour this morning.

    ok'dokey. I'm gonna stick to the 1 30mg morphine tonight still, I think i'm moving the time up to give it to him at 1am.

  22. #22
    mdg11 is offline Member
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    Hey Robert

    He took the 30 mg morphine at 2am. I'll report back in later. I'm going to try and get a little rest.

    reactions at 2:30am....restless, hot and cold, lots of yawning. I know he's tired and is killing him that he can't sleep.

  23. #23
    mdg11 is offline Member
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    hey

    just thought i'd report back still hanging in there!

    i guess i would have thought he would be more in a state of w/d by now. Still kind of the same, restless, yawning, hot/cold.

    When is he going to start sneezing??? i was trying to remember last time he went ct, seemed like he was sneezing right away -so makes me kind of wonder. And why is that people who are drug addicts don't sneeze?

    thank you

  24. #24
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    He should be feeling w/d if he is in w/d and not using. If he isn't in w/d pretty fast he is using. Only way he could be not freaking out in the morning is if he is using. If he is it will blow this entire deal. God bless.

  25. #25
    mdg11 is offline Member
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    I'll update prior to going to the dr in the morning. oh it is morning

    Yes towards the later part of the evening they are setting in. the irritability is more intense, wanting to sleep and can't. All that good stuff. I wonder how I could have forgotten that it was about day 2 last time.

    thanks for responding!

  26. #26
    mdg11 is offline Member
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    hi there

    we're going to pick up the suboxone today at 1pm. apparently the dr. wants to administer it to monitor it. i am not happy about that as i have absoutly no respect for this dr what so ever.

    I don't know what else I can do at this point other than sit back and watch him get atticted to the subs. I'm not confident this dr has his best interest at heart in the least bit.

  27. #27
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Let me know when you get home. Hopefully the dr will just do this the first day then we can get him leveled out if he will go along with me. Let me know what happens. God bless.

  28. #28
    mdg11 is offline Member
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    Hi Robert

    Extremely long day! We have the suboxone. 3, 2mg doses were given. one at 3 one at 3:30 and another at 4;10. We were asked to come back in a couple of hours and doing well. the dr wanted to give him another dose and he declined. i think that is a good thing!

    We are free to taper as we wish. the bottle we have now is for 2mg tabs. my fiance asked if he could do 2 in the morning and 1 after work; I didn't see this to be a problem remembering the taper plan to take them twice a day and then get him down to once a day.

    With these doses administered later in the day, is it possible that he may need to increase the dose another 2mg tomorrow to get that all day comfort?

    thank you so much!

  29. #29
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    I misunderstood that he was taking it three times. Two is fine and that makes the dose 6mg. That's cool! Do the same thing tomorrow and keep it at two doses. I just read it wrong. We'll talk tomorrow. He should NOT need to increase anything. He's at a good dose. God bless.

  30. #30
    mdg11 is offline Member
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    Ok.

    I gave him 2 this morning and then we decided on 1 after work.

    we will be getting another script filled tonight. this dr. gave the other script for 8mg tabs. so while the dose is higher, we will use those to cut up. and save the 2mg tabs for when the taper is greater.

    does that sound good?

    I am very proud of him for only taking the 6mg. i told him we will see how he feels today if he may need 8mg. i kind of doubt it but after today he gets no going forward up to 8.

    is that good? i'm working on strengthing my backbone to him.

    funny remembering my feelings from saturday, thinking i was killing him.

    i greatly appreciate your help with this!

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