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switching from suboxone to subutex question
  1. #1
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    Default switching from suboxone to subutex question

    hi robert....thanks for your post yesterday, i really appreciate it more than you know.....also i wanted to ask you a couple of questions from my dr. visit yesterday.....he did give me the subutex script which i am filling today....i have already taken my a.m dose of suboxone/4mg....should i take the p.m dose of the subutex when i pick it up today or stay w/ the suboxone for today and start the subutex tommorrow?
    also, thought you'd find this of interest; the dr said something about the naloxone not really getting into my bloodstream becuz the sub is dissolved under the tongue, only delivering the bubrenorphine therefore....?......i told him my immediate reaction of the speedy heart racing feelings after i take the sub and that others have reported this too....he said he has never heard of this reported?....but was willing for me to try the subutex....does what he said make sense, becuz it only has me more confused....and i know some of this is anxiety feelings, but i am positive some of this is a reaction to the medicine as well; it's most intense for the first few hours after taking it; but also continues thru'out the day....and my therapist said other clients have reported this too her too?...what are your thoughts on this?
    thanx again,
    peace, Lilly

  2. #2
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilly555 View Post
    hi robert....thanks for your post yesterday, i really appreciate it more than you know.....also i wanted to ask you a couple of questions from my dr. visit yesterday.....he did give me the subutex script which i am filling today....i have already taken my a.m dose of suboxone/4mg....should i take the p.m dose of the subutex when i pick it up today or stay w/ the suboxone for today and start the subutex tommorrow?
    also, thought you'd find this of interest; the dr said something about the naloxone not really getting into my bloodstream becuz the sub is dissolved under the tongue, only delivering the bubrenorphine therefore....?......i told him my immediate reaction of the speedy heart racing feelings after i take the sub and that others have reported this too....he said he has never heard of this reported?....but was willing for me to try the subutex....does what he said make sense, becuz it only has me more confused....and i know some of this is anxiety feelings, but i am positive some of this is a reaction to the medicine as well; it's most intense for the first few hours after taking it; but also continues thru'out the day....and my therapist said other clients have reported this too her too?...what are your thoughts on this?
    thanx again,
    peace, Lilly



    The dr is mistaken. Of course the naloxone is absorbed into the body even though the medication is taken sublingually. Why would the drug company put naloxone in the suboxone if it couldn't be absorbed? Some of these "professionals" never cease to amaze me with remarks like that. Common sense tells you they are wrong. The dr not being familiar with your side effects is also proof enough for me in itself that he isnt familiar enough with this drug to really be answering questions. Then to say that only the burprenorphine is absorbed under the tongue is plain goofy.

    Switch your medication over to the subutex immediately beginning with today's afternoon dose. You give this just a little time for the naloxone to not affect you anymore and you will see a difference almost immediately. Using the subutex will also make it easier to begin reducing your daily dose sooner. So I'm excited for you about that.

    Buprenorphine has a half life between 36-70 hours depending on some variables but the half life of naloxone is only a few hours. That is why you notice the anxiety and what not mostly for a few hours after taking the medication. That is why I suggested you make this switch. You should begin noticing a difference in how you feel tomorrow if my suspicions are correct. We'll know soon enough. Peace to you as well. God bless.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    The dr is mistaken. Of course the naloxone is absorbed into the body even though the medication is taken sublingually. Why would the drug company put naloxone in the suboxone if it couldn't be absorbed? Some of these "professionals" never cease to amaze me with remarks like that. Common sense tells you they are wrong. The dr not being familiar with your side effects is also proof enough for me in itself that he isnt familiar enough with this drug to really be answering questions. Then to say that only the burprenorphine is absorbed under the tongue is plain goofy.

    Switch your medication over to the subutex immediately beginning with today's afternoon dose. You give this just a little time for the naloxone to not affect you anymore and you will see a difference almost immediately. Using the subutex will also make it easier to begin reducing your daily dose sooner. So I'm excited for you about that.

    Buprenorphine has a half life between 36-70 hours depending on some variables but the half life of naloxone is only a few hours. That is why you notice the anxiety and what not mostly for a few hours after taking the medication. That is why I suggested you make this switch. You should begin noticing a difference in how you feel tomorrow if my suspicions are correct. We'll know soon enough. Peace to you as well. God bless.
    thanx again robert!!!
    am taking the subutex right now as directed....everything you just said makes so much more logical sense....i just knew what he was saying wasn't right!...i actually walked out of there thinking he really isn't that knowledgeable about all of this....he seems like a very nice guy, just not that passionate about all of this....so i feel much more comfortable working w/ you and others who have gone thru' this and know first hand what this is all about.....kind of strange to be trusting complete strangers, but that's what i'm doing and it's getting me thru'....and it feel's right.
    i will keep you updated as to all these symptoms for future reference and helping others....i haven't wanted to complain about it as much as i really have needed too, becuz i am trying not too freak out about all this and trying to stay optimistic....but in all honesty, this heart racing sensation has been very intense and very physical...exactly as you described, about right after i take a dose;you can literally feel my heart beating faster; even the nurse reported this....and still the dr thought it meant nothing...oh well..
    peace, lilly

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    The dr is mistaken. Of course the naloxone is absorbed into the body even though the medication is taken sublingually. Why would the drug company put naloxone in the suboxone if it couldn't be absorbed? Some of these "professionals" never cease to amaze me with remarks like that. Common sense tells you they are wrong. The dr not being familiar with your side effects is also proof enough for me in itself that he isnt familiar enough with this drug to really be answering questions. Then to say that only the burprenorphine is absorbed under the tongue is plain goofy.

    Switch your medication over to the subutex immediately beginning with today's afternoon dose. You give this just a little time for the naloxone to not affect you anymore and you will see a difference almost immediately. Using the subutex will also make it easier to begin reducing your daily dose sooner. So I'm excited for you about that.

    Buprenorphine has a half life between 36-70 hours depending on some variables but the half life of naloxone is only a few hours. That is why you notice the anxiety and what not mostly for a few hours after taking the medication. That is why I suggested you make this switch. You should begin noticing a difference in how you feel tomorrow if my suspicions are correct. We'll know soon enough. Peace to you as well. God bless.
    ROBERT!
    o.k., this is incredible....tell me this is not all in my head.....i took my first dose of 4mg subutex about one and a half hour ago....and as God is my witness,i do not say that one lightly, as you know i am a very spiritual person in the little i have shared so far..... and i am NOT feeling that heart racing; even when i put my hand on my chest, there is no pounding feeling, like the past few weeks on the suboxone and that the nurse reported as well.....can this really be true or is it wishful thinking?....this is crazy, something so simple as eliminating one ingredient-the naloxone-would make such a huge difference....am i crazy....cuz i really was not expecting to notice anything, at least for a few days.....you said the naloxone has a short half life, so that would make sense, since my last dose of that was 8-9 hours ago.. i know you alerted me to this distinction, but somehow, more people need to know this....and trust me, my dr and shrink are getting an earful, if this continues for me....frankly, that heart pounding was getting so bad, i was privately considering stopping the suboxone all together, becuz i didn't know how much longer i could bear it....natural childbirth, was easier for me....i'm just a naturally speedy person to begin w/, which i can't stand and am always trying to manage; hence the "calming" effects of any opioid that i was always drawn too...anyway, maybe it's just my mind playing tricks on me, but it's better than feeling the other way for now.....
    i have to go listen to a v/m from my boss, just pray that it's not bad news about my job stability, i don't know if my new found attempt at optimism and trying to stay positive, can take anymore triggers right now... there are a few other precarious situations that i am trying to manage as well, but have not had the courage to share/deal w/ all of them, so this job situation would just push me over the edge...i'm afraid more than i can say... ....still a bit fragile in this journey that i know you know, all too well...
    peace, lilly

  5. #5
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    Hi lilly
    I was just wondering how you were doing ?
    I haven't seen you around...
    Let me know if you are OK...
    Melinda

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by melinda7.5 View Post
    Hi lilly
    I was just wondering how you were doing ?
    I haven't seen you around...
    Let me know if you are OK...
    Melinda
    hi melinda....so nice to hear from you....i've missed reading your outlook on so many things.....i have posted almost everyday, but on several different threads....i hope you got my good wishes for you and robert.....i really am so happy for you both....you two make a very handsome couple and as i mentioned to robert; even tho' i already knew of your inner beauty, i was really struck by your outer beauty as well....i hope you know just how pretty you are....and hey, we all can use an affirmation now and then....and this one is from my heart....i think you know this by now, about me; the heartfelt sensitive type that i am..
    kind of ironic that i heard from you today, as i was going to post again today, a question i posted yesterday or the day before....i think it was on the xanax and suboxone thread;
    anyway, i could really use some input/opinion on the whole "waiting to date while in recovery"....some people say 6 months to a year....however, i don't know if that applies to me, given the fact that i haven't dated anyone in over 7 years!...LOL at myself....anyway, have been thinking of maybe going out to a dinner, just casual and try to get out more and "change my lifestyle that does not include taking drugs"....that's an indirect quote from one of roberts earlier posts, that i have written down and carry w/ me in my purse....along w/ several other quotes from all of you...so if you or anyone out there has any insights on this, i'd really be interested...
    and today is DAY 26 clean and on the subutex!!!
    peace, Lilly

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilly555 View Post
    hi melinda....so nice to hear from you....i've missed reading your outlook on so many things.....i have posted almost everyday, but on several different threads....i hope you got my good wishes for you and robert.....i really am so happy for you both....you two make a very handsome couple and as i mentioned to robert; even tho' i already knew of your inner beauty, i was really struck by your outer beauty as well....i hope you know just how pretty you are....and hey, we all can use an affirmation now and then....and this one is from my heart....i think you know this by now, about me; the heartfelt sensitive type that i am..
    kind of ironic that i heard from you today, as i was going to post again today, a question i posted yesterday or the day before....i think it was on the xanax and suboxone thread;
    anyway, i could really use some input/opinion on the whole "waiting to date while in recovery"....some people say 6 months to a year....however, i don't know if that applies to me, given the fact that i haven't dated anyone in over 7 years!...LOL at myself....anyway, have been thinking of maybe going out to a dinner, just casual and try to get out more and "change my lifestyle that does not include taking drugs"....that's an indirect quote from one of roberts earlier posts, that i have written down and carry w/ me in my purse....along w/ several other quotes from all of you...so if you or anyone out there has any insights on this, i'd really be interested...
    and today is DAY 26 clean and on the subutex!!!
    peace, Lilly
    Hi lilly
    Thank you that was a very nice thing to say about me...
    I think we are both doing pretty dang good for are age...
    OK...If I remember this right you are spouse to wait 6 mon and then get a plant and then in a year get a pet...
    That wouldn't work for me I have all artificial plants if I had a real one in the house I would kill it in a week...and I don't want any pets...

    I personally think we should go out and take any avenue that could bring us happiness...your just talking dinner..LOL...Its not like your going to marry some guy you met over the internet
    But I do think it's time you go out and see what is out there for you...
    Try to find some things in life that will bring you some peace...
    Good luck and don't forget to tell me all the good stuff when you do go out on that date...
    Talk to you later, Melinda

  8. #8
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    P.S. none of you girls have your e-mail working so I could thank you for posting on Robert's and my thread...

  9. #9
    mpvt is offline Advanced Member
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    The naloxone in suboxone is a small amount and not enough that once metabilized by the liver to be effective. What it is there for is the I.V. addicts. If you shoot suboxone into a vein or even snort to a certain degree then you are likely going to go into percipatated withdrawls. Believe me, I have seen people go through this and it isn't something you would wish on anyone.
    So really there is no difference between suboxone or subutex when taken subligually. Good luck with the subutex.....Dave

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    mpvt is offline Advanced Member
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    The naloxone in suboxone is a small amount and not enough that once metabilized by the liver to be effective. What it is there for is the I.V. addicts. If you shoot suboxone into a vein or even snort to a certain degree then you are likely going to go into percipatated withdrawls. Believe me, I have seen people go through this and it isn't something you would wish on anyone.
    So really there is no difference between suboxone or subutex when taken sublingually. Good luck with the subutex.....Dave

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by melinda7.5 View Post
    Hi lilly
    Thank you that was a very nice thing to say about me...
    I think we are both doing pretty dang good for are age...
    OK...If I remember this right you are spouse to wait 6 mon and then get a plant and then in a year get a pet...
    That wouldn't work for me I have all artificial plants if I had a real one in the house I would kill it in a week...and I don't want any pets...

    I personally think we should go out and take any avenue that could bring us happiness...your just talking dinner..LOL...Its not like your going to marry some guy you met over the internet
    But I do think it's time you go out and see what is out there for you...
    Try to find some things in life that will bring you some peace...
    Good luck and don't forget to tell me all the good stuff when you do go out on that date...
    Talk to you later, Melinda
    o.k. melinda, this one really did make me laugh out loud!!!....especially loved the joke "it's not like you're going to meet someone on the internet and get married"....actually, after just being on this site for a month, and experiencing really getting to know people on the inside, w/out external stereotypes/artificial stuff.....i actually view this whole internet communication very differently than i ever use too....and besides, you guy's have now set the standard for all of us hopeless romantics, to still believe in the possibility of 2nd chances.....who knew....
    anyway, i do have dinner plans this weekend w/ someone....please don't faint...LOL...and will definitely fill you in on any good stuff....
    peace, Lilly

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpvt View Post
    The naloxone in suboxone is a small amount and not enough that once metabilized by the liver to be effective. What it is there for is the I.V. addicts. If you shoot suboxone into a vein or even snort to a certain degree then you are likely going to go into percipatated withdrawls. Believe me, I have seen people go through this and it isn't something you would wish on anyone.
    So really there is no difference between suboxone or subutex when taken sublingually. Good luck with the subutex.....Dave
    hi dave...wanted to thank you for taking the time to give me your input.....all i can say on this debate, is that i truly physically noticed a difference w/ that speedy feeling going away when i switched to the subutex.....i guess it depends on the individual, as robert and others have discussed....and if it's all psychological, i'd still rather take the subutex, as i was really having a hard time w/ the suboxone and almost just stopped it all together....as everyone says, the mind is a powerful thing, so who knows....
    but thanks again,
    peace, lilly

  13. #13
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    Default Melinda; on a lighter note....

    Quote Originally Posted by melinda7.5 View Post
    Hi lilly
    Thank you that was a very nice thing to say about me...
    I think we are both doing pretty dang good for are age...
    OK...If I remember this right you are spouse to wait 6 mon and then get a plant and then in a year get a pet...
    That wouldn't work for me I have all artificial plants if I had a real one in the house I would kill it in a week...and I don't want any pets...

    I personally think we should go out and take any avenue that could bring us happiness...your just talking dinner..LOL...Its not like your going to marry some guy you met over the internet
    But I do think it's time you go out and see what is out there for you...
    Try to find some things in life that will bring you some peace...
    Good luck and don't forget to tell me all the good stuff when you do go out on that date...
    Talk to you later, Melinda
    Melinda...
    i wanted to send you a lighter note for once, seeing as so many of your notes to me have always lightened up my moods; i hope you know how much i appreciate your way w/ kindness....still say you should be a therapist!!
    ....anyway, now don't faint, but i actually went out on a date last night...just an early dinner w/ someone, but i took your suggestion (and my therapist, and my sister, friends, my kids; basically the whole world...LOL) to at least get out there and start living my life again.....well, no "heart pounding out of my chest" ( trust me, i have had that before in my life, so i know it does exist) but i actually had a good time and had some laughs...all w/ just a glass of wine and NO handful of opiates to off-set everything!!!...that's a first in so long, i can't even remember....so me just getting out, is about all the good stuff to fill you in on for now....but at least it's a step...a big step for me anyway....and i'm hoping it's one more step of many, finally in the right direction....just wanted to share this w/ you, as you really got me motivated and you're right about the whole plant thing and i already have a dog!!!
    hope all is well w/ you.....more to follow, hopefully!
    peace, Lilly
    Day 31

  14. #14
    Anonymous Guest

    Default made me smile...

    Hi lilly
    OH...Thank you for sharing...LOL...you just made my day I needed a smile.

    I know what you mean when you said no handfuls of pills...sometimes I do things and think to myself...OMG...I did that with out pills...
    Even crazy things like flying across the country...before there was know way I would leave my city in fear that I would run out of pills...
    I just want you to know as my friend I am so proud of you...

    P.S. Greg sent me an e-mail to the both of us and he wanted me to send it to you,I sent it to Robert so he could send it to you, but comcast is down in his town right now..so he can't send it to you..so if you want to read it I will send it to you but you will have to e-mail me first..
    OK got all that...LOL
    Talk to you soon, Melinda

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by melinda7.5 View Post
    Hi lilly
    OH...Thank you for sharing...LOL...you just made my day I needed a smile.

    I know what you mean when you said no handfuls of pills...sometimes I do things and think to myself...OMG...I did that with out pills...
    Even crazy things like flying across the country...before there was know way I would leave my city in fear that I would run out of pills...
    I just want you to know as my friend I am so proud of you...

    P.S. Greg sent me an e-mail to the both of us and he wanted me to send it to you,I sent it to Robert so he could send it to you, but comcast is down in his town right now..so he can't send it to you..so if you want to read it I will send it to you but you will have to e-mail me first..
    OK got all that...LOL
    Talk to you soon, Melinda
    hey melinda....thanx for your note!!!loved it as always my friend....
    i don't have your e-mail address...can you send it too me????
    peace, lilly

  16. #16
    quantumqwest is offline New Member
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    Default Me too.

    I just switched to subutex from suboxone because I acquired instant depression, anxiety, and muscle cramps after taking suboxone. Have just tried subutex... problem seems to be solved except that after first dose (yesterday) I was semicomitose for about 4 hours. Better today. Doctors are not my favorite people! I'll tell my story when I have more time.

  17. #17
    bev49 is offline Banned
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    I agree about docs. Look forward to hearing the story.

  18. #18
    danielle24 is offline New Member
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    Hi I started taking suboxone about two weeks ago and I thought there wa ssomething wrong with me, I to experianced heart racing, anxiety, lethargy and have just felt generally not good, I thought 'well at laest im not rattling or on methdone' but the feeliongs suboxone r giving me is enough to set off triggers to go and score. I have a few subutex stored, but I will definetly get to my doctors and get scripted u0p for them, surely I cant feel any worse than I than I do off suboxone, its worth a try, I just hope I feel the difference too because I cant go on like this, I thought I had somethig wrong with my heart!!! and that make me more anxious, fingers crossed, this is my life im talking about, a bad dose of herion almost killed me and im too young and gorgeous (OJ) to be 6ft under like so many of my friends. are you positive u definetly feel better? I cannot wait to switch, if we are having the same symptoms then it must be the suboxone :/ thanks Lyn

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    danielle24 is offline New Member
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    I SOOO hope switching works for me also, I was terrified I had given myself heart problems and also have muscle cramps though I still had withdrawell symptoms on suboxone or it was the suboxone itself, i had a feeling they wernt good for me. I really hope this makes all the difference for me

  20. #20
    danielle24 is offline New Member
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    By the way I read on the internet that only an iota of naloxone was entered into the bloodstream if you put it under your tongue, thanks for clearing this up

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