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Buprenorphine Jump w/ Bipolar I & other issues
  1. #1
    carloscipher is offline Junior Member
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    Default Buprenorphine Jump w/ Bipolar I & other issues

    [Part 1 -- Let's see if this works in parts]

    I am getting close to jumping off, albeit a little against my doctor's, psychologist's (2), and psychiatrist's recommendations. I can't take it any more. I am a defiant, stubborn, over-achiever (in a way) by nature and I've had enough I am so friggin angry.

    I was one opies on and off 8 years, Quit 4 times; 4 withdrawals. I won't go into reasons WHY I did them.

    From what I have read (easily 500+ posts and a hundred or so articles) kicking bup and w/d are much worse than what I could've done before. But then again, the point is to change the brain chemistry so that you don't keep relapsing.

    I am currently prescribed 0.5mg/day but have recent started taking 0.3mg/day (7 days) with very little difference. I've been on for 18 months; every 28 days I ask the doctor to reduce my dosage, even though sometimes the gang of them think I should take it slower due to Bipolar I (and ADHD and Gen Anxiety Disorder). I have a family history mental illness -- very severe and *many* family members. So, this adds many variables to the equation.

    I am here today to see if others have similar experiences and can help me.

    This time I tried something new (every time I reduced dosage before, I felt the effects for 2-3 weeks). This time I kicked my a$$. I am 42 and was/am an athlete. In my findings (posts/articles) I took meticulous notes and made spreadsheets. I noticed a common pattern: People that work out and exercise hard tend to do much better!

    So I started pushing my limits. I had stopped sports (soccer, rugby, hockey, basketball) for a while due to a manic depressive state and maybe the tapering (which may or may not have induced it). 6 months of that sh*t made me scream with rage finally. I have, in my life, broken about 12-13 bones, had multiple surgeries (knee reconstructions, etc), and torn ligaments, tendons, and muscles. I've played while having some of these minor injuries. The exhilaration of the pain and pushing my body is something else! (Again, maybe the bipolar -- no idea -- no idea who I am anymore for the last 15-20 years).

    I've been playing 2-3 hours/day. The exhaustion (which I already had ) is beyond my control as I fall asleep at my home office desk or sitting down somewhere else. But guess what? I feel GOOOOD. Perhaps it is the chemicals kicking in -- the high of endorphins and adrenaline or whatever else, starting to take normal (or as normal as I was) shape. Who knows.

    I mention this as potential aid for some of you trying to lower dosage (I don't know if this will work the same after actually kicking bup),

    Believe me (I know many of you experienced this), it takes all my mental energy and physical strength to do this. If I can play with fractures, then I can do this. Screw it. I'm all in.

    Here is what I take. This witch's brew of evil is needed otherwise I go into states I cannot control. I spiral, most of the time into ultimate mania and highs that get severely out of control. I do mean severely. I have started or been part of several successful silicon valley startups during these phases. It's incredible but dangerous. During some of those times I was on opies that had triggered the mania. I am highly sensitive to opiates and they create such an acute vision I have no option but to follow my dreams.

    - lamictal/lamotrigine (400mg)
    - risperidone (6mg)
    - gabapentin (900mg)
    - propranolol (forgot)
    - clonazepam (2mg)
    - adderall (60mg)
    - provigil/modafinil (200-400mg; narcolepsy -- even before taking the cocktail)
    - clonidine (stopped taking this because I want to not build tolerance and wait for quitting)
    - (at this point I may be forgetting others .. tends to happen ... I need one of those pill
    and for other stuff:
    - migraine meds due to sever sensitivity to lights, esp fluorescent lighting (I have some other crazy undiagnosed light issue which I will seeing a neurologist soon)
    - viagra (hey, being very open here about everything. I don't want to leave anything out. BUT problem is this stuff interacts very badly with the brew so I stopped. stopped all alcohol completely because even a small amount makes me sick now.)

    I take semi-high doses of each and the crazy thing is that even at those dosages they just slightly calm me down. I recently started the adderall.

    ...
    Last edited by Anonymous; 07-15-2016 at 07:48 AM. Reason: partial post - adding

  2. #2
    carloscipher is offline Junior Member
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    [Part 2 -- Let's see if this works in parts]

    Recently, I noticed that I am switching to a MANIC phase. I sleep 4 hours per night (this will likely become less over time) and I am pumped in the morning. I wake up around 4am ready to kick a--. I have plans. Grand plans. And grand anger. (Uh oh...I've learned to recognize symptoms).


    I am worried that my bup dosage reduction may actually just be counterbalanced by the mania and thus a false sense of hope. BUT...if this is the case, then wouldn't it be a good time to JUMP OFF?

    I am hoping someone out there has a similar experience (longish term bup usage + bipolar i). Suggestions? What happened? Did you trigger some crazy mental stuff?


    I am worried about the similar experiences most people have about 2-3 weeks of w/d and then months of lethargy. I work in upper management, business/tech, for one of the largest companies in the world, and going through that would certainly cause major issues. I need to be able to function at my top game or near the top. It is *possible* I could take 2 weeks off, maybe 3 weeks, even, but I worry about the after effects. A significant number of you state that months later your tired and exhausted up until about month 6. This can't work for me.

    Side note: I have little support from my wife or family. She has deep disdain and disgust for me. I have hidden the effects of all of this from her and go through some terrible anguish at night after putting up a front all day that exhausts me to the core sometimes. I've recently broken down hard several times, falling asleep on the floor after sobbing and screaming into my pillow and punching at the hardwood floors (we live in a large house and I now sleep downstairs and no one can hear me as far as I know). I've been bloodied up a bit a few times. I have embraced and re-channeled this rage, recently, into physical exercise and a deep contempt, almost a fury of disgust and anger towards certain things in this world (I am thinking about creating a non-profit to fight human trafficking).


    To sum up this disjointed post:

    1. I want...need...to quit soon. I believe it is seriously screwing with my mind. I don't know where it will take me. My docs think I need to go slow and steady for another 6 months. I don't know. I've told them all about what is going on. Is there anything you recommend that I could propose to my docs?

    2. I've asked for Naloxone injections but doc doesn't think it would be good at this point and won't give it to me. What is your experience with this? I know it's an antagonist and will immediately bind to receptors and make the partial-agonist go away. It is supposed to ACCELERATE the w/d and time to recovery. I'm good with that if I take time off for 2 weeks, as long as I can function after that time. I'm ok with hell but I NEED TO KNOW as best as possible how much this accelerates recovery.

    3. This bipolar + adhd thing mixed in -- does anyone have experience with this + quitting. What happened? From what I gather ... it's a >>>> shoot, just like my mental state.

    4. Thomas Recipe and vitamins and OTC stuff (skipped Imodium) and Xanax. Quitting before (once cold turkey off of lots of opies -- that was absolute hell and triggered some massively crazy bipolar stuff -- and twice taper over 2-3 months) was quick, but I didn't know about all these other meds and vitamins and things I could do -- not until the 4th one and guess what? Nothing. No difference. One thing did help: SLEEP, which nothing OTC helped with. I got Ambien (first time). Saved me for two reasons: one, it at least appeared to give me sleep since I felt more rested, and two, I could remember the bad nights even if I had them . So question: WHAT OTHER RECIPES or OTC/Vitamins/Minerals/etc have had the most success aside from Thomas?



    Once I start (soon or later) I'll post as much as possible and let you know what happens. Hopefully I'll have the will & energy to post regularly.


    Peace.

  3. #3
    Thisweekforsure is offline Advanced Member
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    I want...need...to quit soon. I believe it is seriously screwing with my mind.
    I think you have fixated on the buprenorphine as the thing screwing with your mind but there is absolutely no way to tell whether its one or more of all the other drugs you are on, or your underlying condition. You foresee (I believe accurately) an unacceptable reaction of lethargy and underperformance if you stop the bup too quickly or jump cold turkey. In your case, I think your doctors are right.

  4. #4
    carloscipher is offline Junior Member
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    Thisweekforsure : Thanks for the comment.

    I've been wondering (and recently spoke with my doc) if I could somehow accelerate the withdrawal using Naloxone and THEN take Naltrexone to supposedly "reset" my receptors so I have no more physical dependence nor physical craving. I would then be highly susceptible to any opiate going forward but I am determined not to use ever again.

    He has recommended I just take Naltrexone, but only after 5 days of detox from Suboxone (0.5mg pure buprenorphne). The recommended wait time for Sub is 12 days after quitting but I believe this is based on a higher dosage regular usage. I am dropping to 0.33mg in 2 days. I NEED TO STOP ASAP. Psychology this is seriously messing with me because of Bipolar I, most likely.

    Anyone have experience trying either way?

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