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confused Day 18 off Suboxone
  1. #1
    hopeful123 is offline New Member
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    Default confused Day 18 off Suboxone

    Robert I'm not certain whether you over looked my last post or not. So I decided to start a new tread. If you are unable to answer maybe some one else might be able to help me and answer my question about tapering off of Vicodin. I posted this as a repley on my original thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    I was trying to keep you from getting back on the subs. If you need me to reinduct you at a very small dose we can. Don't take any 2mg at once though. We would do this in even smaller doses. Let me know if that is what you want to do. God bless.
    This is day 18 the suboxone withdrawal symptoms are still here. This beast just dont want to let me go! (but it will, it must!) I don't want to go back on the suboxone it stole my soul from me. I couldn't feel craving any longer but I could bearly feel the Holy Spirit in me either! Before suboxone I had a very close relationship with God. Suboxone took that from me. I'm off the suboxone I can now feel and communicate with the Holy Spirit again!

    The suboxone withdrawal symptoms are coming back about every 4hrs. I'm able to fight them off by taking 22.5mg of vicodin. The vicodin only last about 3 maybe 4 hrs. After that I bear the suboxone withdrawal symptoms for about 4hrs. I take the vicodin every 8 hrs. I'm trying desperately not to become addicted to the pain pills again. The waves of suboxone that come upon me range from mild to servere.

    I'm upset with myself because I punked out (forgive me for using this word) when the withdrawal symptom came. I couldn't bear them. I was trying to distance myself from the suboxone using the vicodin. My thought was I could taper the vicodin and jump from there. I also thought I would only need the vicodin for no more than 10-14 days. This is day 18!

    What I'm asking is how long does it take to become addicted to vicodins physically, and can I taper the vicodins after using them for say 1 month. I'm praying the servere symptoms will leave or decrease within the next 12 days. (30days all together).

    Can you give me a taper for vicodins and if I need the Thomas rescipe after that so be it. I'm using the vicodin but I despise it. I dont like how it makes me feel. I haven't forgot the control it had over my life. However I'm very aware of the danger of becoming addicted to this drug again.

    Again I can't thank you guys enough for your time and your kindness...Pat

  2. #2
    Anonymous Guest

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    hopeful,
    i know someone here that had probs w/sub wd symptoms. i see where robert's answer that you
    had on there was obviously that he recognized going back on subs was not what you wanted but i don't know what he had suggested to you previously.
    Regardless, you are now on Vicodin and want to jump off it CT, which means stay as low as you can.

    The answer you really want is how long the sub WD last, so that you can keep Vicodan to the minimum?
    I have not used subs, but if you hang here, i'm amazed at how many people are proficient in this subject. What i do know is about your jump off vicodan. Keep it as low as you can go. Can you alternate with something else (I don't know your WD) like ibuprofen in order to keep that jump as low as possible? You know that's not fun. And a lot of wear and tear on your body lately.
    Exercising? Your body needs you to be right now. That's probably the smartest thing i can tell you til someone comes along........but i do so hate the unanswered post

    Vaya con Dios,
    Marian

  3. #3
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    hopeful ..... You are on a very low dose of opiates. Taking 22.5mg of is not serious but your sub symptoms could last up to a month. I can help you do a vic taper but you'll still have the sub symptoms for a while longer yet and it will be hard for you to tell what you are withdrawling from.

    You may have a little dependency to the vics at this point but not addiction. There is a difference. I would omit 1/2 of a vic every couple days and stick it out. By the time you're done with the vic taper the subs' effect on you should have lessened some. Hope that helps. God bless.

  4. #4
    hopeful123 is offline New Member
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    Thank you Marian and Robert for your kind response. It's time to pay the piper. The Lord will give me the strength to finish this. I will taper the vicodin down the next few of days then jump. I don’t want to just stop the vicodin without going as low as I possible can before I jump. I believe that might just be part of the problem I’m having with the suboxone withdrawal. I stopped taping when I reached 1.5mg. I should have gone lower and skipped some days before jumping. I don’t want to make that same mistake twice.

    I’m taking 3, 7.5mgs of vicodin every 8 hrs. at the moment. I was trying to get a taper plan from someone that knew how to taper, that didn’t happen, so my plan is to take 2 vicodin every 8hrs, first day. 2nd day 1 vicodin every 8hrs. 3rd day ½ of vicodin, go from there. If someone could give me a better plan I would appreciate it so much. Thank you again Robert and Marian for your comments and concern…Pat

  5. #5
    hopeful123 is offline New Member
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    Robert please forgive me I didn't read your entirer post. You did give me a plan. I didn't see it the first time I read it. This will be the plan that I will follow!...Pat

  6. #6
    yezdegerd is offline Senior Member
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    I know what you mean with the sub withdraw. I ended up back on subs after day 10 after trying to jump at 2mg. I'm tapering down again and gonna follow Roberts plan, I also have clonidine this time around but the tremors from the sub wd were just to much. I tried using lortabs while detoxing also but on night 10 20mg lasted 2 hours then I was shadow boxing until o caved. Very scary stuff. Just keep hanging in there and follow Roberts plan with the vics, you might have a small dependency for them but its nothing compared to the subs

  7. #7
    hopeful123 is offline New Member
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    Thanks Yezdegerd for your understanding. I had 18 yrs of sobriety before I broke my hip and became addicted to my pain meds. I’ve detoxed from >>>>>> , Methadone, other opiates, none of those detox was similar to the suboxone detox; it is distinctively different...Pat

  8. #8
    Anonymous Guest

    Default hey there..wait up!

    Quote Originally Posted by hopeful123 View Post
    Thank you Marian and Robert for your kind response. It's time to pay the piper. The Lord will give me the strength to finish this. I will taper the vicodin down the next few of days then jump. I don’t want to just stop the vicodin without going as low as I possible can before I jump. I believe that might just be part of the problem I’m having with the suboxone withdrawal. I stopped taping when I reached 1.5mg. I should have gone lower and skipped some days before jumping. I don’t want to make that same mistake twice.

    I’m taking 3, 7.5mgs of vicodin every 8 hrs. at the moment. I was trying to get a taper plan from someone that knew how to taper, that didn’t happen, so my plan is to take 2 vicodin every 8hrs, first day. 2nd day 1 vicodin every 8hrs. 3rd day ½ of vicodin, go from there. If someone could give me a better plan I would appreciate it so much. Thank you again Robert and Marian for your comments and concern…Pat
    Pat,
    You were very truthful in your first post...I just read it too fast. I missed the 22.5 every 8 hrs. part. Did Robert get that part? I'm wondering.....because his suggestion was drop half a vic every couple days.
    I really think you should wait and let him take another look at this, cause 67.5 a day is not a low dose. I really think maybe there's a bit longer, but easier plan. That's one heck of a 3 day jump. Just sayin'. Personally, I'm not much into painful WD if you can help it. I realize subs aren't for you but are you in misery from vic WD that you need to jump that fast?
    Please let him take another look at this before you do this.
    Vaya con dios,
    Marian

  9. #9
    Anonymous Guest

    Default Hey Robert

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    hopeful ..... You are on a very low dose of opiates. Taking 22.5mg of is not serious but your sub symptoms could last up to a month. I can help you do a vic taper but you'll still have the sub symptoms for a while longer yet and it will be hard for you to tell what you are withdrawling from.

    You may have a little dependency to the vics at this point but not addiction. There is a difference. I would omit 1/2 of a vic every couple days and stick it out. By the time you're done with the vic taper the subs' effect on you should have lessened some. Hope that helps. God bless.
    Robert,
    Look at my post would you? It's not 22.5mg......she was honest but i missed where she said every 8 hours. I suggested she wait for you to re-evaluate.
    Marian

  10. #10
    yezdegerd is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowwally View Post
    Robert,
    Look at my post would you? It's not 22.5mg......she was honest but i missed where she said every 8 hours. I suggested she wait for you to re-evaluate.
    Marian
    No re-evaluate needed. Even if she was taking 200mg of norco a day doesn't hold a candle to jumping off subs. At this point she would tap dance through a vic detox

  11. #11
    Anonymous Guest

    Default You're probably right ... but look at why...

    Yez,
    I understand that. But the reason for the vic's is the WD from subs right? If she jumps off vics so fast she's still dealing with sub WD she feels makes her feel empty, isn''t she going to go straight back to the vic's?
    Vaya con Dios,
    Marian

  12. #12
    yezdegerd is offline Senior Member
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    While using opiates to get off subs really isn't the best method, subutex detox at a high dose can be relentless. At this point her wd from subs will hopefully slow down and by lowering her vic dose accordingly she should only have mild wd from the vicodin when its all over. I know you're coming off a tough drug yourself but everybody's tolerance is different and some people just can't lay on the couch and tremor for weeks. A vicodin is about the same as a tylenol when compared to subs. Roberts taper method would have been easier to handle but she jumped at 1.5 after long term use

  13. #13
    hopeful123 is offline New Member
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    Marian thank God for your words of wisdom and insight. I'm really not experiencing any signs of withdrawal from the vicodin that I know of. My desirer was to try to use the vicodin for up to maybe 30 days. This is the time where I see most people withdrawing from suboxone began to level out from the withdrawal symptoms.

    At that point I wanted to begin to taper the vicodin down as low as I possibly could, then jump. But my best thinking is why I’m where I’m at now. I’m willing and open to listen to someone with more experience in doing what I’m attempting to do. When Robert suggested to begin to reduce the vicodin ½ per day that was the plan I was going to follow. But if there is a easier way of course I would prefer that.

    Marian I think I'll do as you suggested. I’ll wait and see what Thomas thinks would be the best time and way to begin the taper. Thank you again…Pat

  14. #14
    Anonymous Guest

    Default Your own best thinking

    Pat...........I am wrong and serving your own best thinking. Yes, Robert said cut half of a vic every couple of days. That was going down from 22.5. So between you and Yez, what's the equivalent of dropping half a 7.5 every couple days if at 22.5....compared to actual amt.?
    If Robert suggested dropping 3.25 every couple days = 9.75 a week. 67.5/9.75=7
    That would take you 7 wks if you dropped 1 1/2 a week.
    I'd just instead of taking 3 , 3xday, I'd take 2, 3xday for a week or so. If you are feeling bit better from sub wd....drop the next week to 1, 3xday. Jump when you feel comfortable.
    I've heard the stories of those who jumped from subs instead of Robt.s way. Scares me, so Yez is saying you will not suffer, however you come off these, at least I think that's what Yez is saying, because you've been through so much worse.

    That is where i don't know anything. Ifeel for you all jumping off subs. The descriptions of how you feel are awful!
    That's why, I think you are better off listening to Yez than I. Okay?

    Best of luck,
    Vaya con Dios
    Marian

  15. #15
    yezdegerd is offline Senior Member
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    Yeah pretty much what marian said. I would start with 2 3x daily at first to see where you are in the sub wd. Hydro was my drug that I've done about 9 detoxes from and I never experienced tremors or extreme skin crawling like I did with subs and oxy, its more just aches and mood. The mood altering is what shell want to avoid here. Keep us posted!

  16. #16
    hopeful123 is offline New Member
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    Default Thank you

    Thank you Marian, Robert and Jez for the feedback and your concern I've decided to begin the taper process tomorrow.God Bless you...Pat

  17. #17
    Anonymous Guest

    Default Best of luck

    Pat,

    I have no doubt you'll do fine. If you need support let us know. be there for you.
    know you can do it.
    Vaya con Dios,
    Marian

  18. #18
    Angeleki is offline New Member
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    I just started taking Saboxene for "pain managment:..has anyone ever heard of that?
    After reading Pat's thread...I am really scared. I have tremors now with taking Wellbuttrin.

    Any advice would be great!!

    thx.Angie

  19. #19
    hopeful123 is offline New Member
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    Default Don't do it

    Hi Angeleki. BE SCARED! Suboxone should never ever be used for any long length of time. It maybe used to detox off of opiates, which should only take a few weeks if that. Don't make the mistake I made listening to my Doctor and the people who put suboxone on the market. Reseach, do your homework on this matter. See what people who have experience the effects of suboxone have to say about how suboxone affected their lives and how difficult it is to detox off of suboxone.) God Bless You...Pat

  20. #20
    hopeful123 is offline New Member
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    I'm still so grateful for all of the help, information and concern I received from this community. Robert, Marian, Yez. This is day 24, I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel. I decrease the amount of Hydro to 3 vicodins every 12 hrs instead of 3 vicodins every 8 hrs.

    I tried to reduce the amount of vicodin I took to 2 ½ every 8 hrs; I found 2 ½ didn’t have an impact on the withdrawal symptoms a few days ago. As time went on I notice the withdrawal symptom weren’t as severe by day 21, I could bear the discomfort for longer lengths of time. I’m praying I'll be able to taper the amount of vicodin I'm taking to 1 dose a day, to nothing.

    I don’t think I mention everything that I was taking for the withdrawal symptoms, but for the record I want to state everything that has brought me to this point. First of all I did a lot of praying and trusting God to help me. Then I remembered the symptoms I experience the first time I tried to jump a year ago. I know myself I knew what I could bear and what I couldn’t bear. In order to prevent myself from relapsing I had to take something to help with the unbearable symptoms that caused me to relapse the first time.

    I had a horrible constant burning sensation in my chest I found it difficult to breathe. A lot of the burning came from my esophagus. (Does anyone know why?) Before I jumped I ask my doctor for a prescription for Zantac and Prilosec for the burning in my esophagus. I took double the amount prescribe this relieved some of those symptoms.

    I experience severe skin crawling on my arms; hot and cold flashes, sick to my stomach, body and headaches for weeks. For those symptoms I took 3 vicodins every 8hr. I remembered the depression, anxiety, anger, insomnia and lack of appetite from the first jump as well; for those symptoms. I took 12mg of Seroquel for insomnia and Sinequan 25mg. (anti depressant) for the other symptoms. Sinequan also gave me an appetite.

    As the suboxone withdrawal symptom decrease I’m decreasing the medication I took to bear those symptoms. I know I will probably stay on the Serquel and Sinequan for a while to assist me with the PAWS.

    Everyone is different we all know how much we can bear. I would have loved to accomplish this with none of the above medication. I tried that it didn’t work for me.

    I know I’m not out of the woods yet but as I said before Day 24 I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. I feel some relief, the symptoms are not as intense as they were just a few days ago. I jumped from 1.5 I should have tapered longer.

    My advice is to detox as low as you possibly can before jumping. Follow Thomas’s plan for tapering. from my understanding the withdrawal symptoms won't be as severe as they were for me. You might be able to withdraw from suboxone without using anything. I discovered Thomas's taper plan after I jumped...Pat

  21. #21
    hopeful123 is offline New Member
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    Default opps

    [QUOTE
    My advice is to detox as low as you possibly can before jumping. Follow Thomas’s plan for tapering. from my understanding the withdrawal symptoms won't be as severe as they were for me. You might be able to withdraw from suboxone without using anything. I discovered Thomas's taper plan after I jumped...Pat[/QUOTE]

    My Bad. Follow Roberts taper Plan, not Thomas's plan...God Bless Pat

  22. #22
    Opee is offline Senior Member
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    Hi Hope,

    Long time no speak. How you doing, Hun? Drop me a line on my thread if you get a chance. You always were a sweetheart!

    All the Best,
    Jeff
    That which does not kill me makes me stronger.

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