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From Dones, to Oxy to Dones, now Subox?
  1. #1
    SickwithTired is offline New Member
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    Default From Dones, to Oxy to Dones, now Subox?

    Hello All,

    I know of someone who for a valid "Chronic Pain" problem started Methadone back in 1997. For a period of 8 years intake gradually grew to a total of 40mgs daily until an ER Dr. asked "How long have you been a Junkie". This really struck the WRONG chord as this person presented to the ER with chest pain and the "Chronic Pain" medications seemed to be of the utmost importance. Okay that was two years ago. Being so pissed led to an immediate 10mg reduction and ultimately off the dones in 90 days. The problem is that the dones were replaced with the little blue 30mg oxy's and fast forward another year and a half.

    Seven OXY's a day keeps a sense of being or feeling "normal". The Oxy's are now GONE and FOR THE LAST 14 days 5-10 mg's per day OF methadone afford the ability to be mobile, but that is about it. Energy levels are S&^T etc.....

    So I had a Dr. Call and tell me that for 175.00 that he would write a Suboxone script, NO OFFICE INDUCTION?? Would 7 days of Suboxone be the miracle cure or will a KICK be Inevitable???

    What makes more sense, a taper from the methadone's which 14 days is already too long! Would a 2mg per day meth reduction avoid any residual DREADED OXY flailing? The OXY went away 2 weeks ago! Can sit still on 5mgs, and remain fairly comfy so to speak at 10mgs of methadone.

    I CANNOT STRESS HOW TIRING THE LAST THREE YEARS OF CHASING HAS BEEN. Lost EVERYTHING, I mean EVERYTHING?

    THIS IS THE LAST RODEO!

    Any help or insight would remain greatly appreciated

    I apologize for the erratic topics i just feel like Sh*T!
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-19-2009 at 10:41 AM. Reason: .

  2. #2
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Quote Originally Posted by SickwithTired View Post
    Hello All,

    I know of someone who for a valid "Chronic Pain" problem started Methadone back in 1997. For a period of 8 years intake gradually grew to a total of 40mgs daily until an ER Dr. asked "How long have you been a Junkie". This really struck the WRONG chord as this person presented to the ER with chest pain and the "Chronic Pain" medications seemed to be of the utmost importance. Okay that was two years ago. Being so pissed led to an immediate 10mg reduction and ultimately off the dones in 90 days. The problem is that the dones were replaced with the little blue 30mg oxy's and fast forward another year and a half.

    Seven OXY's a day keeps a sense of being or feeling "normal". The Oxy's are now GONE and FOR THE LAST 14 days 5-10 mg's per day OF methadone afford the ability to be mobile, but that is about it. Energy levels are S&^T etc.....

    So I had a Dr. Call and tell me that for 175.00 that he would write a Suboxone script, NO OFFICE INDUCTION?? Would 7 days of Suboxone be the miracle cure or will a KICK be Inevitable???

    What makes more sense, a taper from the methadone's which 14 days is already too long! Would a 2mg per day meth reduction avoid any residual DREADED OXY flailing? The OXY went away 2 weeks ago! Can sit still on 5mgs, and remain fairly comfy so to speak at 10mgs of methadone.

    I CANNOT STRESS HOW TIRING THE LAST THREE YEARS OF CHASING HAS BEEN. Lost EVERYTHING, I mean EVERYTHING?

    THIS IS THE LAST RODEO!

    Any help or insight would remain greatly appreciated

    I apologize for the erratic topics i just feel like Sh*T!


    No reason to apologize for anything. Your post is fine.

    Methadone w/d symptoms can linger for a good while as you can see. But man ... honestly I would be reluctant to give up on this and begin suboxone with two weeks already invested into your taper. SURELY it would take less time to finish tapering down with the methadone considering the very low dose you are down to now.

    I work with people on here daily doing suboxone therapy. And I've worked with LOTS of people transitioning from methadone to suboxone. First of all suboxone is not a miracle, it's just a medication. Once you're at 30mg of methadone or less you can make the switch, but you HAVE TO go without ANY methadone for about 72 hours (I guarantee) before you are inducted with suboxone or you will go into the worst case of precipitated w/d you can imagine. I'm serious! You do NOT want to just switch over. You've got to be in severe w/d before being inducted with suboxone and it takes a lot longer with methadone than coming off oxy, percs, hydrocodone, etc. So think about this logically. You've already got two weeks tied up here, then you go another three days without anything before the suboxone induction, then you start all over again on suboxone? You would be getting so close to being done at that point I think it would be taking a HUGE step backwards then to begin a whole new program with suboxone. And I am a pro-suboxone person. I just think it would be a mistake for you based on what you have shared here.

    If you continue to do this with the methadone and it just doesn't work for whatever reason, you relapse with oxy, or whatever, and decide that you're going to do the suboxone regardless, I would be willing to help you with the induction and taper down using suboxone if you wanted me to. I don't personally recommend that you do it that way but I wouldn't refuse to help you. Let us know how you're doing. I really believe you can make it like you're going if you stick it out. If you just continue to taper off the methadone in a relatively short time you'll have this behind you.

    I have to ask. Are you involved in any type of recovery program. I found that once I got clean I really needed to be working a recovery program in order to STAY clean. Most people are the same. It's very difficult to stay clean if we aren't involved in some type of self-improvement/recovery program be it AA, NA, church, a combination of these or all the above. Getting clean is simply a matter of putting a consecutive number of days together not using. But staying clean long term is a lot more complicated. Hope this reply helps you some. Good luck and God bless.

  3. #3
    SickwithTired is offline New Member
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    Default Thanks for the reply, how should I proceed?

    I'm at a steady 5-10 mgs of methadone a day now for 2 weeks. How would you taper? I have way PLENTY!

    I sometimes just stop and start yawning and the such.

    If I taper slowly will I kick like I did jumping off 200mgs oxy a day, that was NOT TOLERABLE!

    How much pain is involved say hypothetically tapering 2mgs every 3-4 days down to zilch, will i still kick,yawn,barf etc...

    I do have some 4mg dilaudid and lots of xanax and valium if any of this might help. I'm very serious about changing my life, I'm in a co-dependent situation and home is HELL!



    Still have hope!
    Tired

  4. #4
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Quote Originally Posted by SickwithTired View Post
    I'm at a steady 5-10 mgs of methadone a day now for 2 weeks. How would you taper? I have way PLENTY!

    I sometimes just stop and start yawning and the such.

    If I taper slowly will I kick like I did jumping off 200mgs oxy a day, that was NOT TOLERABLE!

    How much pain is involved say hypothetically tapering 2mgs every 3-4 days down to zilch, will i still kick,yawn,barf etc...

    I do have some 4mg dilaudid and lots of xanax and valium if any of this might help. I'm very serious about changing my life, I'm in a co-dependent situation and home is HELL!

    Still have hope!
    Tired

    Glad to see you are going to stick this out. I really think you're doing the right thing. You will have to play this by ear to an extent in the beginning. I can help as you go along but just like tapering off suboxone, I always suggest that people communicate with us regularly and we can move forward based on your symptoms.

    You need to base the amount of your reduction on what your total dose is. In other words it's most effectively done by reducing by a % of the total number of mg you are currently taking. You said that you taking 5-10mg of methadone per day. First thing I would do is take the same amount daily. Doesn't matter if it's 5mg or if it's 10mg. What is an amount that you can begin on and not have bad w/d symptoms? That is where I would begin this.

    When you decide what the minimum amount is where you are comfortable start taking that dose each day. If you've really been jumping around as much as between 5-10mg then whatever amount I chose to begin at I would go ahead and take that dose for a few days. Try to get yourself acclimated to that amount daily. After about four days I would then reduce by 20% of the total dose. Let me know where you are starting, how erratic your dosing has been, and when you actually begin doing this. We can communicate every day or two as you go forward and I will stick with you until you titrate down to zero.

    NO ... you don't have to kick and puke and all that nonsense. But the key is that you have to allow your body time to deal with the long half life of methadone. The half life varies depending on metabolism, activity, several different factors. But it can be from around 20 hours up to as much as around 60 or so hours. THAT is what makes this detox tolerable along with consistency in your dosing. If you will go along with me we can get you through this with minimal discomfort. Most would logically be right at first getting you on the right consistent dose.

    VERY IMPORTANT..... PLEASE don't take the valium or xanax while doing this taper/detox. And the same goes for the dilaudid. I'M SERIOUS. I really need to know that you won't take any of that while we are doing this. You're talking about MAJOR potential drug interactions that could result in respiratory failure. I had a life long friend DIE from a combination of methadone, dilaudid and xanax. Still pi$$es me off BAD that he did that. He knew better. I need you to promise me. I would never forgive myself if I was working with someone and they died taking a bunch of medications mixed together and I could have prevented it.

    I know that there are people out there who have taken these medications together and didn't have any problems. But that doesn't change anything. All it takes is one time. It's like Russian Roulette. Just because the bullet doesn't get shot one time doesn't mean it won't happen the next time. I don't want anything to happen to you but for sure not while we are doing this taper/detox. I will watch for your reply.

    Tell me what dose you're starting at, how many days you've been at that dose, and that you won't mix these drugs together. Then we can move forward as outlined above. I look forward to seeing you totally clean very soon. Good luck and God bless.

  5. #5
    SickwithTired is offline New Member
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    Default Ok the Net Net....................

    Thanks Again for your continued interest in something I have not experienced since I was in my teens; SOBRIETY!

    Okay,

    Five milligrams and I feel like ******** but can manage to sit around the house. I was VERY recently terminated from my job while in detox. I have nothing but time and guilt right now. I'm not trying to put you together with the pity program, I just feel as if I had continued eating OXY's and zipping around the office that I would still have an office but for all intensive purposes, LESSON LEARNED!

    REMEMBER, I've only been on the methadone's for 14 days consecutively as to not get sick from the OXY well that went dry and filled with Dilaudid.

    GOOD NEWS, the Dilaudid I don't like, I did consume some but will heed your advice as to not do so any longer.

    As for the Xanax I take it PRN for PANIC 1mg a day on average if needed. I'm not into the nodding deal, OXY always gave me energy, I must admit that I loved it.

    Today I'm @ 8mg Methadone, 6mg Dillies 3mg and 3mg insuff 2 hr interval x 4 hrs ago, and .5mg Xanax and I am by no means comfortably numb.

    From what I hear there is one way to do Dillies and I know I cannot go there! Enough said I shall rid the house of them. They seem to be a waste anyway.

    Oh, I am very sorry to hear about the loss of your friend.

    To think that something so tiny can ruin so many lives, I am speaking of most all Opiates; however its ironic that the strongest are the smallest.

    Does two milligrams matter (Methadone)? Should I start by getting stable on 10mg. Note I am probably right at the point of no return as I've been taking them for 14 days.

    I am anxiously awaiting your reply, I have to admit I almost cried when I read your last reply as it reminded me of what a selfish person I am, I have kids.............They need me!

    Still,
    Tired
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-19-2009 at 06:16 PM. Reason: spelling

  6. #6
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Quote Originally Posted by SickwithTired View Post
    Thanks Again for your continued interest in something I have not experienced since I was in my teens; SOBRIETY!

    Okay,

    Five milligrams and I feel like ******** but can manage to sit around the house. I was VERY recently terminated from my job while in detox. I have nothing but time and guilt right now. I'm not trying to put you together with the pity program, I just feel as if I had continued eating OXY's and zipping around the office that I would still have an office but for all intensive purposes, LESSON LEARNED!

    REMEMBER, I've only been on the methadone's for 14 days consecutively as to not get sick from the OXY well that went dry and filled with Dilaudid.

    GOOD NEWS, the Dilaudid I don't like, I did consume some but will heed your advice as to not do so any longer.

    As for the Xanax I take it PRN for PANIC 1mg a day on average if needed. I'm not into the nodding deal, OXY always gave me energy, I must admit that I loved it.

    Today I'm @ 8mg Methadone, 6mg Dillies 3mg and 3mg insuff 2 hr interval x 4 hrs ago, and .5mg Xanax and I am by no means comfortably numb.

    From what I hear there is one way to do Dillies and I know I cannot go there! Enough said I shall rid the house of them. They seem to be a waste anyway.

    Oh, I am very sorry to hear about the loss of your friend.

    To think that something so tiny can ruin so many lives, I am speaking of most all Opiates; however its ironic that the strongest are the smallest.

    Does two milligrams matter (Methadone)? Should I start by getting stable on 10mg. Note I am probably right at the point of no return as I've been taking them for 14 days.

    I am anxiously awaiting your reply, I have to admit I almost cried when I read your last reply as it reminded me of what a selfish person I am, I have kids.............They need me!

    Still,
    Tired




    I'm not worried about you putting me into a pity program. I don't judge anyone. As long as you have a good attitude, shoot straight with me and will follow my suggestions I will stick this out with you until you are totally clean. Get rid of the dilaudid and don't take any valium. I trust that you will do that for your own benefit.

    I understand the RX for the panic attacks. But it wasn't prescribed for a methadone taper. I have to ask that you be honest with yourself as I am not there to know the difference. There is a lot of difference in a panic attack and feeling some anxiety. Anxiety is a natural part of any detox. If you are having an actual panic attack and require UP TO 1mg total of the xanax in a day I can live with that. But only if you are having a panic attack. That should not be happening on a daily basis or else this condition needs to be addressed. Don't take it just because you're in detox and don't like the way you feel. Xanax is the most fast acting benzo and is acceptable for a panic attack. Valium is prescribed for anxiety however and there is no reason to be taking any of that along with the xanax while we are doing this. So we are in agreement then on the xanax only for a PANIC ATTACK.

    If I understand correctly you were taking Oxycodone 210mg (7 X 30mg) per day up until 14 days ago. That being the case you are JUST NOW starting to get past the detox from the oxy. Most of what you've been feeling over the last week has been the oxy detox. I'm glad you posted before you spent too much time on the methadone. This shouldn't be quite as difficult as it could have been had you waited another couple months.

    Go ahead and take 10mg for the next four days. Want you to feel okay before you start the taper. Give it four days at 10mg and then you can reduce to 8mg. Keep me updated over the next four days how you're doing.

    There is no reason to beat up on yourself for being selfish in the past. Just create a new history. We've all made some very poor choices in our addiction and have caused lots of pain for our families. I won't even get into the things that I did in my past. My history is plastered all over the forum. This is YOUR chance to make things right. Just be naive enough to follow the suggestions and in a relatively short time you will be clean. We don't want to rush it so fast that you have a reason to relapse, but we don't want to stop until you're completely off the opiates.

    I suggest that you get involved in a self improvement/recovery program. It's relatively simple to get clean. You just put enough days together without using and it's done. Staying clean is something different. Have you previously been involved in NA, AA, church, or all of the above? It drastically improves your chances of continued success if you're invovled with other addicts who can provide support. I strongly recommend getting involved with an NA group and start making meetings REGULARLY.

    I am about to walk out the door for a church meeting. Will be gone for a few hours. Have a good evening. Be proud of yourself. The past doesn't matter for now. Just focus on doing the next right thing and don't use no matter what other than what we've agreed on. Good luck and God bless.

  7. #7
    SickwithTired is offline New Member
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    Default Day 2

    Almost 2 full days @ 10 mg Doans only!

    I feel like ********. Headache, TIRED TIRED TIRED.

    I am sleeping, not kicking just miserably tired achy and GRUMPY as all hell!

    Maybe being inconsistent with the dillies AND Doans over the last week have caused me some imbalance, I usually have more energy after two days of the Doan.

    How long should I expect to feel depressed and ********py AFTER getting to ZERO?

    I did a 10 day inpatient hydro taper and felt like ******** 8 days after and ended up picking up. I actually believe 10 days was a.) too short to jump from 200mg Oxy, only to replace it with hydro that was tapered every 4 hours and actually cut off 36 hours before discharge.

    Anyway I'm rambling and grumpy at best! Hopefully tomorrow the energy will get better before ultimately getting worse (As I come down), man Oxy Blvd seems so much easier than this?

  8. #8
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    sick .... give it a couple more days at least to see how you're doing. Don't go to Oxy Blvd. That is not the answer I promise. You've used for a while but when you get down to 0mg I promise you won't feel like this. You get evened out and stabilized then this will be tolerable. Remember how much you hate feeling this way when you're tempted to use. God bless.

  9. #9
    SickwithTired is offline New Member
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    Default Thanks I apprecaite the reply!

    Thanks For listening to a total stranger that is a "Hot Mess".

    Anxiously awaiting "The Cure"

    I'm so tired of being a total jerk to everyone around me, I'm so glad that I don't have to work while going thru this. My own children are trying on the nerves, the adult kids that I typically manage would be huddled up planning my demise by now, trust me I'm ILL!

    Just made it 5 minutes

    Sick, Sick indeed! lol

  10. #10
    SickwithTired is offline New Member
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    Default Worthless Ramblings

    Why am I surprised that since my friend left town I feel every cell of my being as if each one was part of an effort to create friction within me? I'm sensitive in every movement I make sore as if Satan personally kicked my A$$

    I suppose this is the opposite of being comfortably numb? It is uncomfortable at best. I remain ILL, HYPERSENSITIVE, yet so very TIRED.

    2 days down trying my best to hold on @ 10mg

    The sick one.............
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-22-2009 at 08:44 AM. Reason: .

  11. #11
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Quote Originally Posted by SickwithTired View Post
    Why am I surprised that since my friend left town I feel every cell of my being as if each one was part of an effort to create friction within me? I'm sensitive in every movement I make sore as if Satan personally kicked my A$$

    I suppose this is the opposite of being comfortably numb? It is uncomfortable at best. I remain ILL, HYPERSENSITIVE, yet so very TIRED.

    2 days down trying my best to hold on @ 10mg

    The sick one.............



    There are no "worthless rambling" in your posts. You're just saying how you feel. That's what this place is for.

    I think the bottom line is that satan did kick your a$$ along with each and every one of ours too. I know that I have certainly lived in hell during my lifetime. But when you are stable, and it won't be much longer, then you can take your time titrating down and it will be okay. Doesn't matter how long it takes as you have the rest of your life to be clean.

    Focus on staying positive. Not trying to be corny, but for me this time that you describe was when a really honest, humble prayer helped. Not one of begging/desperation but one of thanks for helping me turn my life around while I still could. Lots of people never get the chance to get clean. They don't live long enough. Keep us posted how you're doing. God bless.

  12. #12
    sue13 is offline Member
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    Sick, I am just chiming in with wome encouragement. I was finally able to get honest here, and with the guidance from Robert and all the other people here, I got out of the chemical mess I KNEW my body was in. I was even adding alcohol (first thing in the morning!) to all of it (being so miserable I think I WANTED to die).

    Well, I didn't-went through many awful attempts to quit, then I found this site, read for days (weeks?) and then through Robert's help and all the positive and honest HONEST posts here, it is Day 6.

    So grateful,
    Sue

  13. #13
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Default Sue

    You are doing so very well. I'm very proud of you. My life today is ALL about gratitude. God bless.

  14. #14
    Anonymous Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by SickwithTired View Post
    Why am I surprised that since my friend left town I feel every cell of my being as if each one was part of an effort to create friction within me? I'm sensitive in every movement I make sore as if Satan personally kicked my A$$

    I suppose this is the opposite of being comfortably numb? It is uncomfortable at best. I remain ILL, HYPERSENSITIVE, yet so very TIRED.

    2 days down trying my best to hold on @ 10mg

    The sick one.............
    Hi sick
    you really are doing great.even in you last post you said I made it 5 min,,,
    Thats how I made it at times, 5 min at a time...just let the time pass because every min longer is another min closer to your freedom.
    and this will all be behind you..
    Your strong you can do this...
    Talk to you soon, Melinda

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