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He has jumped from sub on 1.6,Any advice would be helpful
  1. #31
    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Hi Beef, on day 21 today. The last few days has been tough physically and mentally. For the last few days he has had excruciating core pain and restless sleep. We have tried everything. Alcohol dulled the pain a little. We are going to try acupuncture today. Has anyone else suffered with the core/spine pain??

  2. #32
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Annie. Restless sleep is very normal at this stage. It took me quite a while to get good sleep. It's usually one of the last things to balance out. My sleep was spotty at best for what seemed like an eternity. I thought I was gonna lose my mind. But it gets better. It just takes time. I think I slept through the night for the first time right around the 6 week mark. I just learned to stop watching the clock and took sleep as it came. Some nights it was 2 hours, some it was a couple 2 hour naps. You just gotta roll with it. As far as the core pain goes. Could you elaborate on that a bit. For me my pain levels definatelywent up around 2 weeks. I felt every bump and bruise I'd accumulated over the past 8 years. But I'm actually in less pain now than when I was on opiates. Again it just takes time. (Sorry) It's a long brutal drawn out journey. But he will come out the other side a better version of himself. Let me know about the core pain.

    Have a great day!!
    Beef

  3. #33
    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks you for your reply Beef
    It’s so nice to here that everything he is going through is to do with the WD.
    The core pain feels like it’s from the centre of his body nothing seems to help, after about an hour of standing up or walking he feels that his body cannot hold its self up anymore. He went swimming Tuesday and the water gave some comfort as it supported his body. He was weak when he came out of swimming. He was happy because he’d actually done something he likes to do. Then his mood dropped dramatically as pain in the middle of his back/ stomache came back.
    He still has irregular stool movements and sickness.
    We bought Serotone PHTP, Theanine & BioCitrate Magnesium.
    He slept for 4hrs and again for 3hrs
    We are looking for a reputable acupuncturist for pain relief.
    Anything that will speed this process up as he wants to go back to work but hasn’t got the energy.
    His drug worker is very pleased with his progress

  4. #34
    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Urine test was negative of all drugs. I am sooo proud of him.
    he was meant to go to NA today but he didn’t have the energy to get there.
    I try to suggest different things to do every hour to keep his mind busy.
    HE is still determined as ever

  5. #35
    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Day 22, slept 6hrs and more relaxed in himself. Core pain/ache from the sternum up to his throat. . Back pain has faded too.

  6. #36
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey annie. That's a new one with the core pain. Haven't heard of that one before. Did he have a pre existing injury before that could relate to what he is feeling now? I know you said that his back is feeling better. That's progress. I know I said that my pain levels balanced out. I gotta believe his will do the same. I'll ask Randy if he has any ideas. I know he has helped a lot of people off subs and maybe he has heard of this before. It's the weekend so it may take a bit of time for him to get back to us. Just be patient.

    He is doing a great job by the way!! I know you're proud of him

    Beef

  7. #37
    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you once again for your support.
    Day 23 its been an emotional one.
    We have upped the protein as this seems to settle his stomach. Hopefully tomorrow will be a good day

  8. #38
    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy35 View Post
    Hi Annie -

    I have read your other posts on the different thread and see that Beef has previously responded to you. You can trust what he says as his advice is always spot on. I just happened to have a little time and your new thread popped up so thought I would give some input.

    In my opinion you should do everything in your power to get your partner to taper lower before jumping. Sub is very strong with a long half life. The symptoms may be quite severe and could last a very long time if the jump is made from 1.6mg. Not saying it can't be done because there have been several that have made it, but it's a real rough road and you have to be 100% determined and want off more than anything else.

    I would highly recommend tapering to 1.5mg and remain there 4-7 days. Then reduce to 25% down to 1.125mg and remain there 4-7 days. After that the 25% reductions would be 1mg, .75mg, .5mg, .375mg, and finally .25mg. This takes a little time but is so worth it to avoid harsh symptoms. It's the taper plan used on this forum that has produced 1000's of success stories. I was able to work during the entire taper because symptoms were not horrible. I believe he would be able to do the same.

    Think it over carefully. If he wants to stick with jumping theres not much you can do except to support him. It will be rough, but there are many vitamins and supplements that could help. Try the Thomas Recipe. Here's the link below for it....

    https://www.drugs.com/forum/featured...wal-35169.html

    Stay away from the Benzo's it suggests unless he's already taking one under his doctors supervision. They are highly addictive and can present a whole other problem if not careful.

    Good luck Annie. We're here when you need us.

    Randy
    I NEED YOU ADVICE

    Day 26 : spinal/core back pain. Is this a normal withdrawal pain????

  9. #39
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annie16 View Post
    I NEED YOU ADVICE

    Day 26 : spinal/core back pain. Is this a normal withdrawal pain????

    Hi Annie -

    I'm so sorry your hubby is having some pain issues. We get off the drugs and think everything will be fine, we'll become "new" again and then we experience problems. Doesn't seem fair. When we stop taking drugs, especially a powerful drug such as Suboxone, we can often have some aching in our bones and such. We can hurt a little bit. It's completely normal to feel a TINY amount of pain for a while until our bodies return to a more normal state. That doesn't mean we should have SEVERE pain however.

    What you're explaining to me a "core" pain and back pain just doesn't sound like it's any part of a sub wd, or any type of wd. He's been off the sub about a month and if this were related to wd's I fully believe it would be gone. I would highly recommend getting to the doctor for a complete physical including lab work to rule out any potential problems. There could be many things causing these issues for your husband and having a workup with the doctor will at least give you some answers. Be adamant with the doctor that he's really hurting.

    Just so you know, I've helped hundreds with Suboxone both on and off this drug and this is the FIRST time I've ever heard of anyone having these issues when stopping the sub. So in my best opinion it isn't the sub wd causing it, it must be something else going on. Make that doctor appointment and please let me/us know what you find out.

    Take care Annie. Hope this is something that can be easily dealt with and your husband gets better real soon.

    Randy

  10. #40
    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Day 31 today. Thank you Randy for your reply. We have taken your advice and are going to get checked over by the GP tomorrow. X-ray on his back and blood tests....
    He has been an addict for 20 years, I’m wondering how much longer now until he starts to feel better? He still has very little energy after a short walk he feels exhausted.
    He wants to get back to work but has a very physical job.
    In your opinion how long can we safely say that what he is experiencing is nothing to do with Sub withdrawals?
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  11. #41
    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    I have been doing some research on this spinal pain he is experiencing:
    Is musculoskeletal pain a W/D symptom ???
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  12. #42
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annie16 View Post
    I have been doing some research on this spinal pain he is experiencing:
    Is musculoskeletal pain a W/D symptom ???
    Hi Annie,

    Your partner certainly is lucky to have you. It's been quite a ride, hasn't it? Beef and Randy (bless them both) have been here for you and if you haven't already figured it out, you have two of the best in your corner giving you valuable advice and support.

    Randy and Beef are definitely among the authorities on sub around this Forum and I would trust their opinions. Having said that, I have never used subs but I have used more than my fair share of other opiates and sub is an opiate...a powerful one. I can relate to your partner's issues with back pain and RLS while detoxing. The RLS is so annoying robbing us of what little sleep we might otherwise be able to snatch. The back pain I felt was, well painful. It was a deep ache that just wouldn't let up. At least for me, though the back pain disappeared very soon after I had completed detoxing. As I said, I only took short acting opiates so the worst of the physical discomfort had passed in less than a week from when I started. Subs unfortunately cause issues much longer than that especially when jumping from the amount your partner was taking. I'm surprised too that even after more than a full month of this that he still has so much pain. I would be suspect that there's something else going on or it could very well be that because he was taking subutex for so very long that it's still causing him trouble.

    I read a post of your's from yesterday or the day before when you said that you had an appointment with the doctor for tests. Did you make it? Beef mentioned that after completing detox that he was more sensitive to pain for a while. I agree as that was the case with me too. It's hard to guess so early on just how severe the pain really is because of the hypersensitivity. If this is a continued withdrawal symptom it absolutely will get better and any real pain will respond to over the counter things. Knowing this doesn't help much now but have heart that things are going to turn around.

    Keep us posted, Annie. Relief just has to be around the corner for him but just in case, if you haven't already, be sure he gets in to see a doctor.

    Peace,

    Cat

  13. #43
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Annie, just checking in to see how we're doing. Did you guys make it to the doctors yet?

    Beef

  14. #44
    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Hi Beef & Catrina, The back pain has changed now and it seems that he has a trapped nerve in his neck wich is giving him pub & needles in his arm and hands. This week has been better then last. He has been more mobile and socialising more. I think we have turned a corner. I realise he will still be in recovery for a little while longer. We are having more good days then bad now. I hope this lasts.
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  15. #45
    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    The GP visit was of no help at all
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  16. #46
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Annie. I'm glad he's starting to feel better. Good days will definitely more frequently now that he is around 45 days ish??? I know for me that's when I started to notice more improvement. Don't be discouraged if he has a day or two where he feels bad and it seems like he is back at day 10. It's normal and it won't last longer than a day or two. He is doing great!!! I know you're proud of him.

    As far as the pinched nerve. Have you ever thought about a chiropractor or maybe acupuncture? I know a lot of people think chiropractors are quacks, but I'm a big guy with back problems from football (our football across the pond, not yours. Just thinking about running back and forth across that huge field makes me tired) I've been to see chiropractors not necessarily regularly, but I went when I needed to and it really helped to get a good crunch, and I know several friends who have been for pinched nerves with good results. I've never been to an acupuncturist but I've heard all good things.

    Keep us updated!!
    Have a great night!!
    Beef

  17. #47
    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Day 65 and we have turned a corner. The spinal pain has subsided. We have arranged to have a CT scan to see if he has any nerve damage. Natural sleep is good getting at least 6 hrs per night. He still feels weak but he is up and about now going for walks trying to build his strength up.
    The stomach is still rumbling after reading on here that is the last thing to right itself. Have you any tips ?
    Things are good again and we are smiling
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  18. #48
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annie16 View Post
    Day 65 and we have turned a corner. The spinal pain has subsided. We have arranged to have a CT scan to see if he has any nerve damage. Natural sleep is good getting at least 6 hrs per night. He still feels weak but he is up and about now going for walks trying to build his strength up.
    The stomach is still rumbling after reading on here that is the last thing to right itself. Have you any tips ?
    Things are good again and we are smiling
    Oh what a wonderful update! Moving and doing any exercise will help tremendously so keep it up. As far as the stomach thing, just use Immodium when he needs it. Of all of the symptoms, it's bothersome but not crippling (at least it never was for me). You have both done great!! Congratulations.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  19. #49
    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Day 77 and the neck pain has gone. We had a MRI scan in case it was a trapped nearby,still waiting on results. Psychological Issues at the moment. Need to change his mind set. Back to work next week. Fingers crossed
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  20. #50
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Great news annie. Glad he was able to get some relief. What psychological issues are we talking about? I know for me the biggest thing that helped my mental outlook was a supplement called DLPA. Give it a google, there's tons of info on it. Helped me dramatically with depression, anxiety, general mood, and energy issues. Definately worth a look.

    So happy for you guys!! It keeps getting better. Keep us updated!
    Beef

  21. #51
    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Hi Beef, I will give it a go. He started back to work last week. He feels and looks so much better, people are commenting him on how well he looks, I can’t thank you enough for always being there when times were tough. I can’t say it was easy but it had to be done and we are out the other side now and are looking forward to a new chapter in our life.
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  22. #52
    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Hi Beef, my partner had a mri scan and it has shown up that he has a few damaged vertebrae, they have arranged physio. He has been back to work for 3 weeks now but has had a dip. He is having withdrawals again, waking up wanting sub, low mood, no energy he isn’t himself. Is this normal after 15 weeks clean.
    Regards

  23. #53
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Annie. It's possible. Right around 4 months I guess it could be PAWS. Post acute withdrawal syndrome. Some w/d symptoms pop up for a few days or sometimes a bit longer for no reason after you've been feeling better. They aren't common (I've read it's somewhere around 5% of people experience them) but they are very real. And they can be very frustrating and bothersome. Keep giving him the positive encouragement and have him stay the course. It's only templrary. Cravings will happen also. Especially when you're feeling bad. Try to keep him occupied as much as possible.

    What's the plan for his damaged vertebrae? Have they given him any options at this point?

    Beef

  24. #54
    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Hi Beef, we are waiting to have physio for the vertebrae problem.
    His mood is very low, he is not himself. I have tried to encourage him to do some kind of exercise. Walking, cycling, swimming anything I suggest he doesn’t want to do. I feel that he is depressed and In a rut. I have suggested anti- depressants because his mood is low he has no get up an go.
    If there is anything you can suggest I would be grateful.

  25. #55
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    There are a number of antidepressants that are out there and they could definately help his mood. Have him talk to his PCP if he is open to the idea. Couldn't hurt. Keep us updated with what happens with the physio.

    Hope all is well across the pond.
    Beef

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