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He has jumped from sub on 1.6,Any advice would be helpful
  1. #1
    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Default He has jumped from sub on 1.6,Any advice would be helpful

    Shall he make the jump or keep tapering?
    I am a newbie to tgis forum & the partner of a subutex user, he has tapered from 8ml down to 1.6ml. He has been reducing down by .8ml every 2 weeks.
    He is considering to do the jump now as he is experiencing weakness and fuzzy head, as 1.6 is not holding him, so much so that he cannot go to work.
    I would like anyone’s opinion and methods.
    He has made the jump today on 1.6 he in a positive frame of mind.

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    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey annie. I see you figured out how to start a thread. I'll respond in more detail when I get home and can give you more of my time.

    Beef

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    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annie16 View Post
    Shall he make the jump or keep tapering?
    I am a newbie to tgis forum & the partner of a subutex user, he has tapered from 8ml down to 1.6ml. He has been reducing down by .8ml every 2 weeks.
    He is considering to do the jump now as he is experiencing weakness and fuzzy head, as 1.6 is not holding him, so much so that he cannot go to work.
    I would like anyone’s opinion and methods.
    He has made the jump today on 1.6 he in a positive frame of mind.


    Hi Annie -

    I have read your other posts on the different thread and see that Beef has previously responded to you. You can trust what he says as his advice is always spot on. I just happened to have a little time and your new thread popped up so thought I would give some input.

    In my opinion you should do everything in your power to get your partner to taper lower before jumping. Sub is very strong with a long half life. The symptoms may be quite severe and could last a very long time if the jump is made from 1.6mg. Not saying it can't be done because there have been several that have made it, but it's a real rough road and you have to be 100% determined and want off more than anything else.

    I would highly recommend tapering to 1.5mg and remain there 4-7 days. Then reduce to 25% down to 1.125mg and remain there 4-7 days. After that the 25% reductions would be 1mg, .75mg, .5mg, .375mg, and finally .25mg. This takes a little time but is so worth it to avoid harsh symptoms. It's the taper plan used on this forum that has produced 1000's of success stories. I was able to work during the entire taper because symptoms were not horrible. I believe he would be able to do the same.

    Think it over carefully. If he wants to stick with jumping theres not much you can do except to support him. It will be rough, but there are many vitamins and supplements that could help. Try the Thomas Recipe. Here's the link below for it....

    https://www.drugs.com/forum/featured...wal-35169.html

    Stay away from the Benzo's it suggests unless he's already taking one under his doctors supervision. They are highly addictive and can present a whole other problem if not careful.

    Good luck Annie. We're here when you need us.

    Randy
    Last edited by Anonymous; 02-15-2018 at 04:44 PM.

  4. #4
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Annie. I'm glad Randy stopped by his advice is the gold standard when it comes to subs, or anything else for that matter. Yes, do whatever you can to have your partner continue the taper as low as possible. Like Randy said he can do it, but he will be miserable for quite some time. The Thomas Recipe that he suggested helped me tremendously, but definitely leave out the benzos unless he is already taking them under a doctors supervision.

    I stumbled here on day 11 of crushing w/d after jumping from 1 mg/day. I had to work through the entire process. It wasn't pretty, but i survived. But i wish i had found this place and done more research prior. Tapering further would have made my landing much softer, but what is done is done.

    There are many threads on here that will give you some insight as to what he is in for. Play around and give some of them a look, reading all of them really helped me and gave me some knowledge and i came away with a renewed determination to beat this.

    Keep posting and let us know what we can do. We are all here for you!!

    Have a great day!
    Beef

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    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you for you advice.
    He has jumped (his choice) and today he is feeling confused with mild sickness and diarrhoea.
    Slept all night waking in a good mood with a sense of humour.
    I have read The Thomas recipe and have stocked up on Imodium, multi vitamin, Benadryl, acidophilus, Amino Acids and healthy juice drinks with protein.
    We have taken two weeks off from work as he has a physical and demanding job.
    He is determined and focused.
    I have been readying on here that he should get Gabapentin from his GP ? When should he start that ?

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    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Annie. I've heard good things about gabapentin helping out during the acute w/d stages. But in contrast I've also read that physical dependency can occur rather quickly with it. If you want to go down that road I'd just say be careful!! You don't want him trading one for the other. I've read that gabapentin w/d can last about a month or so. Just be careful with it. The Imodium and the amino acids were the two main things that helped me get back to "normal". Liquid form as needed. One dose of Imodium would last me for about 2-3 days.

    Keep him hydrated, and get him moving. Staying active is imperative!!! You gotta get up and get the endorphins moving. Just sitting around watching the clock and feeling miserable will drive him crazy.

    Let us know how its going!!
    Beef

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    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Update: 24hrs after his last sub and his has slept on and off all day. He has eatan two solid meals. Watched two films. Sneezed twice and now has painful arms and back. I have massaged olbus oil into the painful arrears. I don’t know if this will hel but anything is worth a try.
    We can not buy liquid imodium in the Uk

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    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hmm. I did not know th that. How is he doing today Annie?

    Hope all is well across the pond.

    Beef

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    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    He had a very restless sleep last night. Pains in arms and back he eventually slept for 5hrs. He got up and had a walk to the end of the road and back. Stayed up and watched a film. Had a solid meal & juices. Then had a hot bath with Epsom salts in to help with the pain. I have given him ibuprofen for pain too. I’m just about trying anything to help him get through this period. I am taking one hour/day at a time. We both listened to music and we got a lot of emotions out good and bad.
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    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Can someone explain to me why he gets restless arms etc. Is it in his bones or muscles??

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    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Annie, from what i've read the RLS has something to do with iron and dopamine levels in the body being low due to the withdrawls. Not sure if its true but you can google it and if you find out let me know. The epson salt baths will definitely help.

    For RLS and sleep there's some products that may help. There's Hylands restful legs, and i believe that they make several other products that are helpful.

    Sleep wise i tried everything. The sleep, and RLS are what hit me the hardest. What worked best for me was a hot long shower and then i took valerian root capsules washed down with a strong cup of sleepy time tea.

    Here's a link to my thread

    https://www.drugs.com/forum/prescrip...nfo-73963.html

    I jumped from 1mg of suboxone and i used it as sort of a diary for the first 45-50 days or so. Most of the good stuff is in the first few pages. but i thought it would give you some insight for what he is in for and going through. Everyone heals differently, and he can definitely do this if he really wants it. You have to want it more than anything. It sounds like he is committed and determined. And he has a great support system in you! He will need you through this, and he is lucky to have you!!

    Keep posting and let us know how its going.

    Have a great day!!
    Beef

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    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    48hrs: couldn’t sleep last night so took some sleeping tablets. Slept for 5hrs woke up in good mood. Day 3 He had a Epsom salts bath done the usual rubbed in olbus oil in arms, legs & back he had a drink or two and then slept for another 3 hrs. He had a solid meal watched a film listened to music then off to sleep again after taking some sleeping tablets. We are going to the GP tomorrow to see if they can give him anything for RLS & sleeping.
    Any idea how long the rls lasts. ?Does it subside ? Or is it an individual thing?

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    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Day 4: he had around 6 hrs sleep and I encouraged him to go for a walk. He was feeling the pain all over today. I am giving him extra protein in his smoothies which hopefully will give him strength. We had appointment with the GP he gave him strong ibruprofen for the pain in his back, legs and 7.25ml zopiclone for sleep 1 per night. This has helped a lot.
    His mind is positive.
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  14. #14
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Annie. It's hard to say how long the RLS will last. Everyone heals differently. For me it was on and off for about a month. Some nights better than the others. Hot soaks and heating pads, and hylands restful legs is what I used. Just know it's all normal and part of the process. Eating a protein rich healthy diet and tons of water will help, and bananas, lots of them. Potassium really helps out. Keeping a positive mindset is key also.

    It's gonna take some time for him to get to his actual pain level. For a while I felt every bump and bruise I'd accumulated the whole time I was using. But it goes away and I'm actually in less pain now than when I was using. And Tylenol actually works now for pain.

    He will have good days and bad. With the bad ones slowly becoming less frequent and the good ones coming more often. But it is a sllllloooooowwwww process.

    Keep us posted. We are here for you.
    Beef

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    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you for your reply beef and always being a good source of information. He had a restless nights sleep. We are hoping to go for a drive today keep him busy.
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    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Annie. Just poking my head in to see how he's doing today. Hope you have a great day!

    Beef

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    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Hi Beef day 6 & 7 he was in lots of pain. We are trying everything and anything to help the pain. We went to a Chinese shop and asked her of a cure for RLS.
    She explained that the withdrawal pain he is feeling, is due to CNS central nervous system. She recommended XIAO HUO LUO this did seem to help with him sleeping and the pain.
    I haven’t a clue what ingredients are in them.
    The GP in the UK would NOT prescribe Gabapentin or Valium.
    He is on day 9
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  18. #18
    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Day 9 he was not his normal self. He was very much in his own head. In pain and very weak.
    We managed to go for a 10 minute walk. He is eating a full solid meal each day with broken sleep pattern.
    When will this pain RSL ease off???

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    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Keep him busy and moving. The RLS and sleep are two of the last things to balance out. Have you looked at any of the "Hylands" products? Hylands restful legs really worked for me. Pain levels are part of it too. It'll take some time but he will get better. It just takes time. He's gonna be a bit off for a while. But he will bounce back, just know everything he is feeling is normal and all part of the process. Keep him moving and hydrated and keep feeding him bananas. He will get through this with your help.

    Keep posting!!!
    Beef

  20. #20
    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks Beef for always being there for me.
    I had a birthday party to attend and had to leave him. He was very low..
    Day 10: I came home after 6 hrs away.
    he had a miraculous turn around. He is in a postive frame of mind and focused. He is back on track.
    We are focusing on getting strong now. Lots of saunas and exercise.
    Sleep will come in time.
    I’m sooo proud of him hopefully we have gone through the worse now.
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  21. #21
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    That's great!! I'm glad it turned around for him. He will in us to have good days and bad days for a while. It's important for him to know that the bad ones will pass and he will gradually feel better. It's just a long process. Tell him to hold on to the good days. Take it slow. Focus on the here and now. Don't fret over things he cannot control. The good days will become more frequent until they're all good. He is right where he should be. Keep him hydrated and moving around. He is lucky to have you!!

    Have a great day!!
    Beef

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    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you for your kind words. We are in London listening to Pink Floyd.
    We’ve had a good day.
    Day 12: How long does it take for opiates to come out off your system? He has been a user for 20years....

  23. #23
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hmm. Hard to say with any degree of accuracy. How long has he been taking the subutex and at what dosage? Are we talking drug test or just for his own peace of mind? I ask because suboxone and subutex are buprenorphine which has a very long half life and stays in the body for a long long time. On top of that it has a stacking effect in the body. I was on a very large dose for 4.5 years so i'm sure that even 5 months clean there's still some residual bupe in my body. But everyone heals differently, different metabolisms and such.

    As far as i know buprenorphine doesn't show up on standard drug tests. I believe they have to specifically test for it. However this is just my opinion, and in no way am i a doctor or medical professional.

    Beef

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    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Hi Beef, he has been on subs for 15 years. The drug test is for both his peace of mind and his job.
    Day 13 today and the good things are his feelings are coming back and the bad things are also his feelings are coming back.
    Every hour of the day can be very different with mood swing, but generally in a good mood

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    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    14 days today: mood changes every couple of hours. still no energy, tired but can’t sleep. Waking up feeling sick

  26. #26
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Annie, just know that the ups and downs are so typical right now. He is 2 weeks in!! Make sure you tell him how proud of him you are. I know I am!!! He should start turning the corner within the next week or so. Good days and bad days. Eventually they'll all be good. Keep reminding him of why he is doing this in the first place. I know you're giving him all the support you can. Just tell him to hang tough. This too shall pass.

    Keep posting!!
    Have a great night
    Beef

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    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Day 15 went to see his drug worker the night before for some sleeping tablets, he had 3 hrs sleep then went back to sleep for another 2 half hrs.
    a good day out. He was back to his self. It was so good to have him back. It made everything worth while. I am so proud of him
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    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Hi Beef, my partner is on day 16 and suffering with painful reflux. Is this normal withdrawals ?

  29. #29
    Annie16 is offline Junior Member
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    Hi Randy my partner is on day 16 and is suffering from painful reflux is this normal withdrawals??

  30. #30
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey annie. Just poking my head in. Stomach issues are very common. Subs really do a number on our bodies. It will pass in time. I had some tummy issues for a while. Keep him eating healthy veggies and a protein rich diet. I basically had to cut out acidic foods for a while to help calm it down.

    Sorry I've been away for a day or two. But you know life......

    Hope all is well
    Beef

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