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Reversal Of Suboxone..is There A Reversal Agent If You Have Pain???
  1. #1
    LISA GIRL is offline Member
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    Question Reversal Of Suboxone..is There A Reversal Agent If You Have Pain???

    Reversal Of Suboxone ..is It Possible If You Are In Pain????

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    To all those on SUBOXONE or considering SUBOXONE....

    Short summary of story documented here some time ago... Percocet habit. Knew I was out of control but didn't want to quit. I started suboxone to help with the cravings. Was on it 14 months and it worked wonderfully. (I had tried c/t before and although the physical symptoms of w/d subsided within one week, the mental cravings did me in in 2-3 months.) Suboxone was a Godsend...and as time went on, i had absolutely no desire for the pills. I took a low dose of suboxone.. 2 mg per day and thought I might just succomb to being a lifer to insure my sobriety.

    On November 10, upon returning from vacation, I picked up a bag at the airport and herniated a disc. The pain was uncontrollable. Standard otc advil/asprin etc did nothing. I had to go to the E.R. and of course, there was nothing they could give me to stop the pain as I was on the Suboxone. Eventually after a muscle relaxer and a few days the pain went away but I had to have surgery. After reading horror stories about people who went into surgery not long (2-4 days) after being off suboxone, I decided to quit 14 days prior to the surgery to make absolutely sure that the pain meds would work. I transitioned onto percocet immediately to make sure I would have no back pain or withdrawal symptoms (after all I knew I would need them post surgery.)

    I was absolutely painfully honest and clear to my doctors/nurses/anesthesiologist and surgeon about the suboxone and constantly reminded them that I would need more pain meds than the average person post surgery. I live in Denver. I had one of the best and well known surgeons in the city...I actually talked to two of them. Neither were familiar with suboxone. Nor were the nurses, nor was the anesthesia guy. They were all intrigued and did some research ...however none of them were able to answer my question.

    WHAT IF YOU ARE IN UNBEARABLE PAIN, ON SUBOXONE AND NOT ABLE TO HAVE YOUR PAIN CONTROLLED?? IS THERE A REVERSAL AGENT? CAN SUBOXONE BE OVERRIDDEN? Yesterday the anesthesia guy said he had read and read and read and not been able to find anything that would indicate that you can reverse the effects of suboxone if neccessary to control legitimate pain. He was going to continue looking and let me know if he found anything. But from what he could tell, one would just have to wait it out...72 hours is what they say it will last. Can you imagine being in a horrible accident and having no pain relief for 72 hours??

    I had asked my sub doctor the same question another time and he gave me some flippant answer about being able to override it if necessary.. he said they could just give me more painkillers?? That didn't make any sense to me since the receptors are blocked and it didn't make sense to the anesthesia guy either.


    HAVE ANY OF YOU SUB USERS THOUGHT ABOUT THIS OR GOTTEN ANY INFO FROM A PHYSICIAN THAT WOULD ANSWER THIS QUESTION?

    I am not sure I trust myself to go from narcotic use now for my back pain cold turkey.. I am afraid the mental addiction will resurface .. .but I also don't want to be on a medication that prevents me from being able to get pain relief if neccessary. That is my ONLY concern about the suboxone. The doc also said if you O.D. on suboxone there is nothing that could be done,....so watch your doses people!

    ANY INFORMATION THAT YOU MAY HAVE HEARD ON THIS SUBJECT, PLEASE POST.

    AND PLEASE IF YOU PLAN ON HAVING SURGERY OR ANY PAIN, BE SURE TO STOP YOUR SUBOXONE WELL IN ADVANCE OF ANY PROCEDURE. THERE IS A POST I FOUND ON THE NET THAT WILL SCARE THE **** OUT OF YOU... IT CONVINCED ME TO BE COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY HONEST WITH MY DOCTORS ABOUT THE SUB... AND YOU HAVE TO DRILL IT INTO THEIR HEADS WHAT IT IS AND WHY YOU WERE ON IT... MAKE SURE YOU REPEAT IT TO THEM SEVERAL TIMES AND EVERY VISIT. AND I WOULD RECOMMEND BEING OFF THE SUB AT LEAST A WEEK BEFORE THE SURGERY AS THE WOMAN IN THE STORY HAD BEEN OFF FOR 3 DAYS AND IT APPARENTLY WAS NOT LONG ENOUGH!!

    This subject may have been addressed before but i have not seen anything here so again, any info would be appreciated. I want to go back on sub but not sure I want to take that risk of something happening again.

    Love you guys.. Praying for a pain and craving free day for you all.

    Lisa Girl
    Fatz42088 likes this.

  2. #2
    ObiZen is offline New Member
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    Default reversal of suboxone

    Yes, it is possible to "Push" suboxone off of receptors during a medical procedure requiring opioid analgesia. However, it takes a large amount of Dilaudid to accomplish this and therefore is not usually practiced by physician's who are not suboxone know it alls. I would recommend that you talk to your physician prescribing the suboxone, have them consult with the other staff members and MD. If that fails, I know a very brillant Dr. in Denver who runs a suboxone clinic and has a history of performing Rapid Opioid Withdrawl Therapy while a patient is anethisized. His name is Dr. Ivor Garlick. He is the man to ask when it comes to buprenorphine. I trust him more than any other dr in the area. I would recommend you start to taper down by 2mg every 24-48h over a two week period. Switch to Tamegesic 0.2mg (2mcg) buprenorphine and then abstain for atleast 72 hours before surgery. I have been through a surgical procedure on suboxone. The Dr. stopped pushing the morphine after I did not respond to a "five person" dosage. He was not familiar with Sub and therefore thought he could just push it off like methadone. Ignorant Private Contracting physician! It was very traumatic.

  3. #3
    joe macauley is offline New Member
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    Cool suboxone reversal

    I have overdososed before and i take suboxone. you can get high 8-12 hrs after suboxone use. thats essentally what your asking right? well i can tell you from first hand experience. -Joe

  4. #4
    joe macauley is offline New Member
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by joe macauley View Post
    I have overdososed before and i take suboxone. you can get high 8-12 hrs after suboxone use. thats essentally what your asking right? well i can tell you from first hand experience. -Joe
    yeh right pain meds?

  5. #5
    NurseJohn777 is offline New Member
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    Wink Better Answer

    Hey, I am the one who originally answered this thread question over two years ago. I wanted to update my original answer; I currently work at the Addiction and Pharmacology Research Laboratory (APRL) at the Research Institute located on the St. Luke’s Campus of California Pacific Medical Center in the Mission District of San Francisco. While studying the binding affinity of several analogues of fentanyl (a synthetic opiod agonist), it was noted that one analog in particular, Sufentanil (Sufenta) had a high enough binding affinity for µ receptors that would be able to break through a buprenorphine blockade, thus offering pain relief from acute trauma in patients who are taking high-dose buprenorphine. This is actually quite fascinating considering the extremely high binding affinity of buprenorphine is only partially reversed by the opioid receptor antagonist naloxone

    -J.O.
    p.s. I will post a link to the original citation on this thread when possible.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 10-23-2010 at 08:48 PM.

  6. #6
    sisterwin2 is offline Member
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NurseJohn777 View Post
    Hey, I am the one who originally answered this thread question over two years ago. I wanted to update my original answer; I currently work at the Addiction and Pharmacology Research Laboratory (APRL) at the Research Institute located on the St. Luke’s Campus of California Pacific Medical Center in the Mission District of San Francisco. While studying the binding affinity of several analogues of fentanyl (a synthetic opiod agonist), it was noted that one analog in particular, Sufentanil (Sufenta) had a high enough binding affinity for µ receptors that would be able to break through a buprenorphine blockade, thus offering pain relief from acute trauma in patients who are taking high-dose buprenorphine. This is actually quite fascinating considering the extremely high binding affinity of buprenorphine is only partially reversed by the opioid receptor antagonist naloxone

    -J.O.
    p.s. I will post a link to the original citation on this thread when possible.
    I am really interested in this.... pls do f/u with the original citation. I will add thread to send me an email... again

    Ty Sister.

  7. #7
    Dr123 is offline New Member
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    Default

    IV Dilaudid will override low doses of Naltrexone in Suboxone. So will diamorphine by Roche Pharmaceutical , but it is a Schedule 1 in the United States.

  8. #8
    subbett37 is offline New Member
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    Default on suboxone need surgery and drs wont help me!

    Quote Originally Posted by sisterwin2 View Post
    I am really interested in this.... pls do f/u with the original citation. I will add thread to send me an email... again

    Ty Sister.
    I have cancer and need surgery asap! My sub dr wants me to have surgery and not recieve any pain meds after. He has lost his mind but so has my oncologist who is letting him decide how im treated and how muchbpain i feel. Im scared to death!!! Done went thru 1 surgery not knowing >> feel everything afterwords and that was horrible. The nuse gave me ao much morphine and dauldid to put an elephant down ( i weigh 110lbs) she started to panic after nothing worked and i was still screaming. These drs want me to have a 10 hr surgery and lymph nodes removed also and suffer. This cancer will prob kill me before the drs listen and help me

  9. #9
    carloscipher is offline Junior Member
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    Default

    I don't know if this would work but I am throwing it other to see if someone would know. I am currently looking for a rapid way to detox (from 05.mg) without affecting much of my life given the situation I am in (won't go into details).

    I've been reading about Naltrexone (not Naloxone). Supposedly it "resets" your opioid receptors but you must start the detox & withdrawal process. My sub doctor (who used to also work in a clinic where he anesthetized people and administered all sorts of injections for rapid detox) told me that I would only need to be off of subs for 5 days then I could take this injection and essentially not feel craving anymore, as if I had never taken it (except for psychological). He warned me that I would be HIGHLY susceptible to opiates and that I could easily overdose. When going into surgery you are supposed to take a much lower dose than you normally would take but you would feel the effects of the painkiller.

    Alternatively, depending on the surgery type, you could also get "nerve blockers". I've had easily over 20 medium - serious injuries and multiple surgeries. A couple times, I've had nerve blockers. One was for reconstructive knee surgery (ACL, PCL, Meniscectomy). Guess what? No pain. Nothing. I was scared to death it would come at me all of a sudden. It never really did. Just felt a little discomfort and didn't really need to use the prescribed meds. I could even use the "bending machine" to exercise my knee and I was way ahead of schedule. I may have just been lucky. Caveat: I do have a I high pain tolerance having had so many injuries that I've kept playing with, but in all honesty I felt no pain that I needed to just "grin and bare".

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