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Subutex versus Suboxone
  1. #181
    Peacechick is offline New Member
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    He'll! I'm new to this site. Happy to report I'm off all meds (including any psychiatric meds), except Suboxone, for over 10 months. I'm happy to be "me" again! My grown kid's, and 3 best friends, are happy and relieved as well. I started abusing Fiornal w/ Codeine at age 27. I turned 54 this year. It's a barbiturate AND opiates (DOUBLE TROUBLE)! . I also smoked a lot of weed and drank, until 2001 when I got into AA. Good foundation for sobriety, but in the long run, I'm better without meetings. This is just my experience. Twelve step programs, books, steps, basics, are good. I found the people, and meetings, more detrimental in the long run (year's). Too much drama, similar to high school. My experience, just saying'.... So, I've changed my entire diet (Pescatarian, no sugar or caffeine), I meditate, pray, have a great therapist, went to school, became a state certified Behavioral Health Paraprofessional, started Yoga, etc. I have to stay busy. Otherwise, I'm lonely and can get depressed (but not like before). I've eliminated all but 2 necessary prescription meds (heart med and dessicated prescription thyroid med). I've lost 55 pounds too. I'm tapering off Suboxone (down to 4mg from 16mg daily). My doc isn't helping me. There are a couple other Sub doc's in my area, but I know people who've had bad experiences with them. Subutex made me sick as a dog (tried it first). My therapist is helping me taper, but neither one of us are experts. We both read as much as we can about it and discuss. Have any of you comfortabley tapered off Suboxone? How long have you been off and how do you feel now? I can never use opiates, narcotics, barbiturates, benzo's , muscle relaxants, EVER AGAIN! I was a very "functional/dysfunctional" Mom. I'm not jeopardizing my relationship with my children again. I'm concerned about going off Suboxone too soon. I've had many, many health issues all my life. Partially, because of substance abuse, partially, just because. I notice how old, tired, weak I feel now. I'm lucky to even be alive!!! For anyone younger hoping to get clean, DO IT NOW!!! Trust me. Thank you!

  2. #182
    Jampat is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    I'm happy for you that you're taking a new medication but 32mg is three to four times as much medication as you need. I know I'm right. They are messing you up. Drs RXing 32mg are terribly confused. If you want some help let me know. God bless.
    32mg a day is a crazy amount. No one really needs more than 8mg a day in my opinion. The only thing 32mg is going to do is make it very very hard when you want to stop taking it.

  3. #183
    Jampat is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by BesNotstep2dis View Post
    The difference between Subutex and Suboxone is one thing, Naloxone. Naloxone is an opiate blocker that Suboxone has in it that Subutex does not. Thats probably why you feel "much better." All you are taking is Buprenorphine which is a strong painkiller with a long half life. Suboxone has that drug in it as well, but the Naloxone prevents the user from abusing the drug, i.e crushing and snorting it. You might as well be taking what you used to take, because it aint much different my friend. Good luck
    I don't understand people saying they feel better on one or the other. They are exactly the same thing except the naloxone. That's the only difference at all. That isn't going to make anyone feel any different. And I know that for a fact. I have been told by Drs.

  4. #184
    ryjew14 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    I can help you taper down successfully if you want the help. All you need to do is follow instructions. You basically taper by 25% of your dose every four days barring symptoms. so we post and make adjustments as you go forward. Let me know if you want my help. I can get you off the subs without a lot of discomfort. God bless.
    Hi I'm on 50ml of methadone and want to detox can you help. Would suboxone be the best when I get to 30ml as people say weeks for methadone

  5. #185
    Zadrozny44 is offline New Member
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    I want to say I am a opiate addict. I was on suboxone for 5 years and just never felt right I recently had my doctor switch me to subutex about 2 weeks ago and it is soo much better. I have energy again and not so much depression . I personally think subutex is soo much better

  6. #186
    hondi is offline New Member
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    Angry I AGREE!!!!!!!!! I WAS ON 4-8MG SUBOXONE DOWN TO 2 -8MG AND NEVER FELT good

    When I switched to subtex(suboxone without naloxone), I went from 8mg per day to 1 mg per day by cutting and weighing it on grain scales.Funny but the 8 mg never got me high but I feel some pain relief from 2 mg. The problem I had was my doc moved me from cutting 8mg pills into eight pieces ,sometimes taking crumbs,. We moved to 2 mg Subtext to 2 mg so I could make the dose even smaller .SUPRISE!!! The 2 mg is so small I could only cut it in half. It wore off so fast in 12 hrs I was getting hot flashes then sweating and would take the other half and go to sleep. We settled on taking 2 mg, and slowly spacing the dose period from 24 hours to 28- 3 days apart. Hopefully this works. Before this script I had quit for 3 weeks and thought I was finished. Much to my surprise, my gut started feeling like it had a rock in it,so I took a few crumbs of subtext(bupenorphine) and the gut was well. It takes a long time to come off either one. My doc was anti subutex,wrote me suboxone and I felt depressed,my eyes hurt and it was terrible. He gave me 6 months to get off the subutext then will only give me suboxone. Do I sound like I am abusing this. I am just trying to keep working and get off opioids without the side effects of naloxone.I never knew until I got suubtext instead of suboxone the bad side effects of naloxone.I imagine as little as I take I will be clean in 4 more months. Otherwise a new doctor search will be in order. I really feel upset over being treated like a buzz seeker when I am the one asking for the smaller doses. I have seen docs freely try and up the amount of suboxone I was taking only to hurt my withdrawal plan and budget. My new doc even had me move from half to whole 2 mg subutext. When asked,he replied there will be withdrawal no matter what. I disagree. I must keep working and can't take time off for weakness,or any other side effects.DONT LET THEM UP YOUR SUBOXONE.THATS GOING THE WRONG WAY AND JUST PADS THEIR WALLET.I EVEN HAD A DOC WHO WOULDN'T ACCEPT CC OR CHECK FOR SUBOXONE OR SUBTEXT BUT WOULD FOR ANYTHING ELSE!!!!!!

  7. #187
    Conniecummings is offline New Member
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    Default Happy on suboxone!

    I have to say I've only experienced the opposite of depression while being on suboxone... And this is month 9 taking two films a day. The only bad I've noticed is it's not working as strong since my seventh month. But if I did want to try subutex.... What is the reason I would give my doctor for him to change it?
    Last edited by Anonymous; 02-01-2017 at 11:29 PM.

  8. #188
    MorganWilli is offline New Member
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    This has been informative, I wish I would of done this 2 yes ago. ..I was on suboxon for 2 yrs, first I've ever got Clean, first year was awesome but then I started mood swings ,and depression, bad. ..never been that way. ..anyhow I relapsed and been on my drug of choice for 4 months about 2g a day. ..but when I go to get back on the suboxon it didn't work. ..I take 21/2 8mg strips and in going craaaaazy. ...so I go back, I wonder if subutex will help me get back on our what do I need to do, after Stirling so hard 2yrs everything is failing fast lol. ..not really a lol matter but it beats crony right now. .I think if I would of seen suboxon causes depression I would of changed, thank you

  9. #189
    unryl is offline New Member
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    Default Suboxone can be abused just as much as subutex

    All these people that say Suboxone cannot be abused are full of >>>>, I have seen it done. Doesn't require special knowledge or know how. There isn't enough narcan in the drug to knock the buprenorphine off the receptors. Both are a poor drug to abuse as your tolerance skyrockets over night, and all you can do is maintain after that. Some people do it to keep from having to do 8mg in a day, do I think its stupid? Yes, but the narcan isn't what causes withdraw buprenorphine is. It has a higher binding affinity than most opioids. Narcan (Naloxon) can knock it off the MU receptors but it takes more than 2mgs and if someone does say a quarter of a pill of suboxone the narcan isn't spread evenly throughout the pill. The smaller and smaller amount of narcan you have a chance of getting, but you also got a chance to get it all at once but the chances are one in a million. Years ago people thought it was unabusable but that is just a myth. It was put there to deter people yes, but it was mainly put there for a patent.

  10. #190
    rayray1420 is offline New Member
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    I have been a damn slave to Suboxone for 10 long years. I was prescribed for 8, then my doctor retired, leaving me to get it off the street. I have not craved an opiate since starting on the Suboxone, so it has done its job, but that is the only positive. I've suffered with OIC for years and I've tried tapering on and off for the past decade, with no success. I'm a paralegal and a single mother of a 10 year old so tapering would bring the inevitable WD's, which literally had me feeling like a 90 year old, which meant missing work and literally unable to take care of my kid. So tired of being on this >>>>, but idk what else to do at this point. Would do just about anything to get this >>>> outta my system. I can't check into an inpatient program to get off of it either, as that would mean missing work, and I can't do that or else me and my kid would be homeless. When I can't find strips, I take what I can find, as in Subutex or Zubsolv ...I just feel hopeless, like I'll be on this forever. I >>>>ing hate it...

  11. #191
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hello welcome to the forum rayray, If you start your own thread here it will be easier to follow you. Give us a little of history on what you use now,how much you use, there are plenty of people here to support and guide you in a successful taper..will be on the lookout for your thread... Be well...

  12. #192
    diamante38 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlconner View Post
    how can people say that suboxone and or subutex isnt "abusable"? the town i live in suboxone is the most sought after drug on the street and not so they can feel better they do it to get high...if youre not on any kind of opiate and you snort either subys or subutex it only takes about a quarter to get you high. its changing one addiction to another and its not easy to come off of either drug. i know people that will pay up to $40 for a regular 8mg suboxone and up to $55 (if not more) for a subutex. and im not perscribed to either one of them but ive done both of them and still do but i do so to stay off other stuff.and it does work but its harder to stop taking the drug thats supposed to save lives...
    Wow what city are u from??? If u dont mind me asking...

  13. #193
    Droppinthepoppy is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by doctadialect View Post
    Suboxone and Subutex are very different and the reason why is the evil drug called Naloxone. Sure they tell you that it's an opiate blocker, but what they don't tell you is that it's an endorphin blocker as well. I read this in a 2002 book, before Suboxone even came out, that Naloxone stops endorphins from producing naturally in the brain or from activities like eating, exercise, sex, etc. If you look on the Endorphin page on Wiki, it says Naloxone stops Endorphin pain relief from activities such as acupuncture. I personally have been on Suboxone for over a year now and I struggle from low-endorphin depression from years of painkiller use. I have purchased the amino acids DL-Phenylalanine and L-Tyrosine because I have heard these 2 will restore endorphins to a normal range, but the Naloxone in the Suboxone is literally stopping this from working and restoring my endorphin level. Not to mention the Naloxone stays in your system for weeks even after you stop taking Suboxone. If only my stubborn doctor would prescribe me Subutex, I could get out of this depression.
    I’m not a doctor, although I was a chemistry major at an Ivy League school and I have read a lot of research on this topic. You can find it quickly by googling “naloxone kappa opioid receptor”. There is a growing belief (and many of the more progressive outpatient detox docs are buying into this) that subutex IS in fact better to use as a taper med than suboxone, despite the fact that it can be misused intravenously. Naloxones effects on the kappa opioid receptors in the brain (compared with bupe only subutex which exclusively binds to the mu opioid receptors) make for a worse detox when using suboxone when compared with subutex. Perhaps it is simple upregulation in both mu and kappa receptors in the brain when using suboxone, versus only mu opioid receptors when using subutex). All I know is that there is enough evidence that if I were given the choice I would always choose subutex. Without a strong support network (12 step program), commitment to abstinence, etc, it is possible that some people might be better off with suboxone given the higher potential to abuse subutex by IV administration, but I think this is an important factor that people should look into before they opine. You will quickly find some experienced docs saying this if you spend some time.

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