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40 mgs methadone to suboxone
  1. #1
    jana34 is offline Junior Member
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    Default 40 mgs methadone to suboxone

    Methadone to suboxone starting induction soon. Hi there, I'm on 40 mgs methadone. Several years on the clinic. I plan to wait about 3 days give or take and I have the cows sheet and about 4 to 5 days off work.
    First I've seen a couple posts from people who induced after getting down to 20. But I know that people have done it at 40 mgs and much higher. Just hoping I may hear back from someone with a personal experience at a higher dose on about how long they waited and maybe what score they were.
    Second, I'm very confused on what to do if I start at 2 mgs and then feel worse. Do I wait another day or a few hrs? The dr said to take 2mgs then 90 mins to 2 hrs later regardless of reaction. And to continue on up to 8 mgs. His thoughts were to continue taking the med to push past it if u get precipitated withdrawal. Does it really work that way? I'm suspicious. Not sure what to do if I react badly. Oh and he's treated many with this med but never a methadone patient. I sort of feel like his experiment.

  2. #2
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi there. You want to avoid precipitated withdrawals at all costs! Trust me, I went through that years ago and it was the worst experience of my life. The only way to guarantee that won't happen is to score yourself HONESTLY on the COWS worksheet. Wait until you hit a score of 26 before taking ANY Sub. Your doctor is wrong - treating PWD with more Sub is not the way to go! If you were to put yourself into PWD, stop all Sub immediately. Wait until you score a 26 on the COWS sheet and re-induct. If you were to keep taking Sub on top of PWD, you could end up in the hospital.

    Have you read the taper plan we have here? There's a whole section on induction. Read it carefully. It's ok to start with 1-2mg of Sub. Wait at least 90 min to let it do its job. Then, add .5mg until you're comfortable/stable. Stable means having little to no WD symptoms. (**the induction/taper plan is located on the Suboxone Treatment board; it's the very first thread at the top titled "Suboxone Therapy"**)

    Yes, technically you should be down to 30mg Methadone before switching to Sub. I'm gonna have a friend (another member) post to you. She switched to Sub from higher than 30mg..can't remember how much exactly. Her name is Bette (username Iluv2smile).

    Also, it would be best to start a new thread on the Suboxone Treatment board. There's much more traffic there and you'll get lots of support. Just copy and paste your first post into a new thread so you don't have to type everything all over again.

    Kat
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  3. #3
    jana34 is offline Junior Member
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    Thank u soooo much Kat. I think I did read that thread if it is the one that includes Roberts taper plan. It was super informative. I gave it to my boyfriend to read to and it was so much more information than the Dr gave me. I've seen it cited in other posts and the more it is referenced the better.
    Thank u very much for responding about pwd. That settles it. Didn't seem right what the Dr said. I'm very grateful for your reply.
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  4. #4
    jana34 is offline Junior Member
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    Going to try to find out how to locate the other board and post another thread. Thank u again

  5. #5
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey Jana - There is one safe way to make absolutely certain you don't go into PWD's switching from methadome to suboxone and that is to use the COWS SCORE and FORGET how much TIME has passed since your last dose of methadone. Get to a score of 26 or higher and it's ok to induct. Don't use the COWS and you're guessing at it and taking a real chance at this. I wouldn't suggest you do that!!!

    And IF you do get in a hurry and go into PWD's you shouldn't take more sub to get past it, you should STOP taking ANYTHING, wait until withdrawals get to that 26 score and do the induction over. You could take more and more sub, but why do that. You'll be sick doing that too. I've been there, done this, experienced PWD's TWICE, thought I was going mad I was so sick!!! You want NO PART of PWD's I promise.

    Use that COWS, get to the 26 score required no matter how long it takes or how much time passes then you can safely induct to the subs. That's the ONLY way I would ever do it again. The lower you can reduce that methadone the better. I got down to 10mgs eventually and it still took me nearly 90 hours of withdrawal symptoms before i got to the 26 score. Might take you the same, could take you less time.

    That's MY recommendation based on experience. Hope it all works out for you!

    -Randy
    Last edited by Anonymous; 12-13-2014 at 05:13 PM.
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  6. #6
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jana34 View Post
    Going to try to find out how to locate the other board and post another thread. Thank u again
    If you look towards the top left of this page, you'll see "General Discussion Boards". Click there - it will take you to a list of all the different boards. Find and click on Suboxone Treatment.

    Kat

  7. #7
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    I wasn't attempting to repeat the same post as Kat did, I was only reinforcing her post by agreeing with EVERYTHING she said and giving it a thumbs up as it's spot on. Your doctor could have made you very, very sick. Good luck Jana!!!

    -Randy
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  8. #8
    jana34 is offline Junior Member
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    Thank u so much Randy and Kat. I'm only something like 36 hrs since my last dose. I just feel goosebumps and chills runny nose stuff. No where near yet. But I already feel all emotional and teary eyed reading people's posts and the strangers that take the time to respond. Really blows me away. Thanks again
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  9. #9
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi there Jan
    How are doing!

    No matter what you go through or i what went through.
    it was one of the best decisions I have ever made to get off of methadone..
    I don't even remember how bad it was or wasn't ..
    I hope knowing that it will soon be a distant memory for you too that will make waiting easier.
    I got mine from pain management too.
    I jumped off from anywhere from 120mg to 150 mg I don't really know ..
    But it was definitely more than 40mg..
    So you can do it.
    I waited 100-120 hrs . I went to detox but was already ready to be induced when I got there.
    I know that because my admission urine was drug free except benzos. That did test for methadone .
    I took zanex a couple of times the last days before I went in .. Not a good idea.
    I would say at least 96 hrs ..
    If you want to be really sure get a drug test at the store and check yourself because you do not want to go into precipitaded withdrawals..
    They did not use the COWS with me because of my urine test being clean..
    I drank lots a lot of stuff within those days of waiting to help clean my system out .
    Plus I started on a good vitamin regime before inducing ..

    I planned this for a long time but could not make it over 72 hrs without the methadone..
    Really because I wasn't ready..
    This time I wAs done and never looked back .
    They started me at 4 mg than 4 mg more for a total of 24 mg a day .

    I did not need that much but back then I was still of the mindset that more is better..
    I don't remember what dose I really felt comfortable of the suboxe but it was definitely less than 24 mg..
    5 days dater I went to 12mg
    Then 6mg
    Then 4 mg now I am tapering here using Roberts taper plan.
    I have had some hiccups in the road but basically I am doing great..

    No you can not keep taking more sub if you go into Precipitaded withdrawals to override it.
    Maybe you could do that for regular opiates but not methadone.
    So you have to wait you either wait to induce ..
    Or induce to soon and instead of waiting you will be wishing you were dying!
    I have been free from methadone for over 6 months now .
    That is the 1 st time in 10 years..
    Just chill out and know in a little while you will be free too..

    I was so sick on the methadone it really matter sick is sick..
    I would either be sick with hope
    Or sick and hopeless and still hooked on the worst drug in the world..
    At least once I induced I was free!
    I will check back later
    Iluv2
    Last edited by Anonymous; 12-13-2014 at 10:48 PM.

  10. #10
    jana34 is offline Junior Member
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    Thank u lluv2smile. Wow that's a huge jump from a high dose. Really inspiring. I like u said u don't remember really how bad it was. It's funny how that works, though I guess PWD is something that seems to stick in people's memories. Well for obvious reasons. I'd like to think that when it's over I'll adjust and this feeling won't be in the front of my mind.
    I'm at only 48 hrs since last dose. Surprised how bad I feel already. Chills goosebumps runny rose some RLS and very difficult to sleep. Got about 3 or 4 hrs straight last night. Even though my body feels very weak and tired.
    Thanks for the drug test idea. I saved some money for this so that may be money well spent. If only to help reassure me after I've reached the score of 26.
    I haven't even looked at the cows sheet the last 2 days because honestly. I know I'm nowhere close. Hell probably on the low side of mild. And I don't want to constantly remind myself of the negatives.
    Not sure if I've even processed everything u wrote. Just knowing it takes other methadone users so long helps me to be patient with this.
    Thank u again

  11. #11
    jana34 is offline Junior Member
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    Also lluv2smile congratulations on being free from methadone after 10 years. That's awesome. I've been on it 13 yrs. I was led to believe that after that length of time I'd be doomed to be a lifer. That somehow the brain could never learn again to produce endorphins on its own.
    There was one time maybe 7 years ago or so that I got down to 15 and then just jumped off really determined. But after 9 days when symptoms were getting worse not better I just hit a breaking point and ended up using and back at the clinic. This time I can't go back.

  12. #12
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    I did the same I have gotten off a couple of times and never knew about PAWS.
    When it hit me the last times I freaked out and thought the depression lethargy and anxiety would last forever.
    This time I did my research and know that thoses symptoms are a natural part of the brain basically leRning to function again..
    It will pass..
    So this time I am ok with those symtoms and know I will most likely have them after the suboxone..
    Bring it on !
    I am grateful that my brain still has the capacity to feel and work without being saturated with opiates..
    The cows has things like
    Heart rate
    Anxiety
    Dilated pupils
    Things that you evaluate with a number and then add up the score..
    I think Kat left you a link..
    You may be closer than you think..
    Are you able to drink water ?
    I will check back later..
    I think you should stay on the other thread under suboxone .
    I know randy posted to you today..
    It gets to confusing using more than 1 thread..
    Take care
    You are gonna be ok
    Iluv2
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  13. #13
    jana34 is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks. I thought I copied and pasted and that it basically moved the thread but it sounds like the other copies stay. Yikes . I've never used any forum. I'll have to look around to find my other posts. I'm drinking more water today than yesterday. I do have the cows sheet. I'll pull it out and see what my score is. I'm around 50 hrs from my last dose and this withdrawal seems to set in much slower since it's so long acting.
    I'd really like to follow your progress lluv2smile. You have an awesome attitude about PAWS. Thanks

  14. #14
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey Jana - Try not to use how much "time" has passed since your last dose, but instead tell us what your COWS score continues to be. Maybe check the cows every couple hours and let us know.

    Something else that's extremely important. Don't take ANYTHING that would delay the withdrawal symptoms by making you feel better. The point is to get sick with symptoms to be able to induct as soon as possible. If you take anything that would help those symptoms improve it would only cause you to be sicker longer with symptoms. Know what I mean? Even tylenol, motrin, ibuprofin, nyquil, etc, etc could have that effect and make it play out much longer. Hope that makes sense to you!

    -Randy
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  15. #15
    jana34 is offline Junior Member
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    Thank u very much randy. I hadn't realized about the over the counter meds too. Took a couple ibuprofen this morning. And one last night. Maybe now I realize why many symptoms seem to come in waves for a couple hrs then improve slightly confusing me. You know things like nose dripping like constant water drops and then later just really stuffy.
    I do feel considerably worse as the day has progressed. So now I'm thinking I may be ready later tonight. I'll take the cows again when my boyfriend gets home. He actually picked up my shifts at work for me so I could do this. Can u imagine? What a gift and sacrifice. We don't do the exact same job at the shop but he's able to man it in my place and has rescheduled all of my appointments for later in the week. Just telling folks I had a family emergency. And all clients have been awesome.
    On a side note I'm a tattoo artist. Not too hygienic to be sneezing and dripping bio hazard onto a client's skin nevermind the slight shakes and chills. I wouldn't let a tattooer with the slightest shaky hand touch me. Anyway the work issue has worked out great so far. I can't complain.
    A few hrs ago I picked up the cows sheet and scored myself at a conservative 11 or 12. And right after put a benzoe on bored. One valium. Dr gave me 3. My thoughts at the time where I was still a full day or 2 away and it would be gone by the time it was to induce. Won't touch anything again. Thank u so much for tip on otc meds.
    Maybe it was the valium and ibuprofen that helped for awhile cause bone ache and restless legs are back.
    I just keep thinking I've felt all this before so many times and more intense. But again I don't have to hit a top score. This isn't a test I'm trying to ace. Just a 26.
    Thanks again for all the info and personal experience everyone who has posted. Every time I think I've got it all I gain a little more insight.

  16. #16
    Iwantoff2013 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey there. I know you feel icky and I hope you're able to reach that 26 score sooner rather than later! Hang in there. Lots of people get in a big rush and take Sub too soon, which is understandable considering that WD sucks! But inducting too soon could spell disaster. As soon as that 26 comes, you're good to go!

    Oh yeah, as Bette (Iluv2) mentioned, stick to one thread only - the other one on the Suboxone Treatment board. It gets confusing replying to both. You should make a post on this thread letting everyone know from here on out you'll only be posting on your thread on the Suboxone board.

    Hang tough. You can do this. It won't be too long now, hopefully...
    Kat
    Last edited by Anonymous; 12-14-2014 at 08:27 PM.
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  17. #17
    imdaman62673 is offline New Member
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    Hey bud I was on 80 mg methadone for 9 years before that I was on oxycotin and fentynal . I am on suboxone now 8 mg I went threw withdrawals 4 mths ago and Goin strong praise God! ! I personally didn't have any effect from suboxone the first 5 days I thought it didn't work on me my Dr said he doesn't like to prescribe sub for coming off methadone cause it sometime don't work.thank God it did just took a Lil bit. Anyway I am still going through post withdrawal or watever u call this I'm almost ok wen doing stuff but wen I lay down or sit to watch TV I get this horrible like hurting numb feeling everywhere in my body from my head to my toes like the feeling of them is intesified like 100 x u know.i git a ringing on one side of my head that don't go away I can barely hear tv cause if it.i went threw withdrawal for like a week then I started moving around, my Dr retired so I was lost I felt very betrayed but it's great not depending on them any more and everyone says how different I act and look without the..any way if anyone reads this or knows wat I'm going thru please message me and to u I pray y make it it's a tough road but I know we all can do it !!!! No thing like a drug is gunna control my life anymore I'm tired of it! God bless and happy new year! Lenny

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