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Getting On Sub, not too confident in Dr. Need info plz.
  1. #1
    zombie69 is offline New Member
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    Mar 2007
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    Default Getting On Sub, not too confident in Dr. Need info plz.

    Hello, I've been on Methadone for almost 7 years now and I've gotten myself down to 20mg and I'm trying to go down even further. I have an appointment next week with a Doctor I found through NAABT.ORG. He's the only one in my area and I didn't want to drive super far so I called but a few things are making me VERY Nervous.

    For one, I asked about the cows test and they don't use it. Also the receptionist told me that I'd come in for a first visit to see if I qualify and if so then on the second visit I'd come back and he'd give me my 1st Sub in the office to see how I do on it but what bothered me is that she told me that I would only have to wait 12 hours after taking my last dose of methadone. I told her I'd read up on it alot and said that the normal is usually at LEAST 48 Hours and she said that I could talk to the Dr. about that but normally he only made people wait 12 hours. She told me he used to prescribe methadone so I'm actually hoping he DOES have some experience with this stuff but the whole 12 hour thing and the not using a cows test really has me a bit worried.

    I know me and I also hate, truly truly hate any w/d symptoms so while in my brain I know i should probably go 42 to 72 hours there's that other part of me that so wants to just take it after 12 hours, the part of me who can't stand being sick and I'm afraid I'll get myself into trouble this way.

    Should I just wait and see what the Dr. says about everything? Do I need to look for a new Dr.?

    I really don't want to be sick for a few days but I'd rather get it over with and do this the right way than to be sick for days and days and not have this work. Any and all advice would be very much appreciated.

    Should I print out some of the horror stories and take to him? If he insists that 12 hours is enough should I just say ok and then really wait longer and not tell him? Also, I'm worried that if he thinks 12 hours is long enough then he may be one of those "you need to take more" doctors. I don't want to start out on a high dose and I don't want to be on sub long. 3 months is way too long for me, I'd like to do it in under a month if possible and not just because of the cost.

    Here's a bit of info on me and why I want/ need to do this:

    I'm at 20mg Methadone currently.
    I have maybe a weeks worth left, I no longer attend a Methadone clinic due to conditions beyond anyone's control - meaning I can no longer go to the clinic without being violently ill for 3 days or more. Part of it's psychological and part of it isn't. I think I just now associate that place with me being so ill. I started having adverse reactions to the methadose which progressively got worse until I can't even stand the smell of the clinic without vomiting. So I'd saved up alot through my 7 years, mainly from that last year when everytime I went ea month I was too sick to take my dose for 3 or 4 days following. I was also robbed up there which probably didn't help this condition any so I quit going and tried to taper myself. I successfully went from 190 mg in DEC to 20 mg today. I don't have alot left and I'm having a horrible time trying to go below 20mg. Should I just try to take 10 mg for a few days then 5mg for the rest of it, it would be a few weeks worth that way. Would I be super sick if I did that then quit? Or is Sub the better way to do this?

    Ok, I'm through sorry for the super long post. Typing is one of the very few talents I have and I can easily hit 120 wpm so what feels like a second or two can take up pages real fast. TY everyone in advance, I'll keep you all updated.

    P.S. One last thing I've always wanted to ask other opiate users. When you start getting sick - ie w/d symptoms do any of you'll have that weird feeling behind your face and neck? It's kinda hard to explain but for me it's like the center of my soul where everything bad about opiate sickness seems to stem from. I always feel it there first and knew I was about to have wd's soon because of that weird feeling - kinda behind my face and neck a bit. Weird I know but I always wondered if others felt it there too or had similar spots like that. It's too hard to explain, just wondering Lol.

  2. #2
    newyorkgal is offline Platinum Member
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    Oct 2009
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    To answer your last question first, in withdrawal I just get a weird body feeling first that is very unpleasant. I can't quite explain it. I think everyone experiences w/d a little differently although there are ultimately many symptoms that all go through.

    I also went from a long methadone history at a clinic (30 years) to sub. I can't tell you strongly enough that 12 hours is NOT long enough. You will go into precipitated w/d when you take your first sub dose which is TOTAL w/d and believe me, you don't want that. I also had no knowledge of the COWS worksheet so didn't use it but I did go a full 72 hours between my last dose of 25 mg. methadone to sub. You have to be in moderate to severe withdrawal. I would just stop taking the meth 3 days before your appointment. If he is the only doctor in your area, I don't know what you can do as far as finding a better doctor. The other problem with almost all doctors is that they start you at too high a dose and if you have to dose in his office, you will have no choice. I started at either 12 or 16, don't remember, but I do know it made me nervous, jittery and I couldn't sleep. It wasn't until I was down to 6 or even 4 mgs. that I started to feel normal. If possible, tell the doctor you don't want to take more than 4 mg. for the first dose. He will have you sit there for awhile. You should feel better within a half hour. If not, you can take more but really, it is rarely necessary.

    Again, let me say, 12 hours is ridiculous and dangerous and will almost certainly put you into precipitated w/d.

  3. #3
    zombie69 is offline New Member
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    Mar 2007
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    TY so much for writing back. I didn't think 12 hours would be long enough even though I sure was hoping. I so hate to go 2 or 3 days Lol but I think I'd hate instant w/d even worse. I'm going to make sure I at least go 48 to 72 hours even if the Dr. doesn't suggest it, I just won't tell him but still, I only talked to the receptionist so maybe she's in the wrong and I won't really know till I actually talk to the Dr.

    I just want to do this 100% right. I'm in a good place to do this properly. I live with my mom and brother and neither one of them so much as drink and I haven't done any "real" drugs since the mid 90's and only painkillers after that which led to methadone which is leading to sub which hopefully will lead to a new road off of this horrible circle drive I've been on for so long. If I had more time I'm sure I'd be successful on tapering off of methadone, I just forgot one little thing and that was the horrible Tx. summer heat which seems to just suck it out of me. Getting to 20mg slowly was easy, 10mg a month but going down further is where I'm stuck. I just haven't been able to do it.

    Anyway ty for your advice, If I do nothing else I am going to make absolutely sure that I have at least 48 if not 72 hours off of methadone before I go in to take my first sub.

    You know I've always been sick the next day on methadone. No matter what dosage and at my highest I was at 190mg. I know alot of people who could skip a day but not me. One hour after I wake up I feel completely horrible, full flu w/d symptoms that get worse as the day goes on. I have Fibromyalgia and a couple of other things so never felt really well on methadone, Ever. I'm hoping Sub is different for me.

    TY so much and I'll let you all know how my Dr. Visit goes and how well I do or don't do. I'm hoping it all goes great but if not then at least I can help others by letting them know what not to do. TY again.

  4. #4
    FreeMe2011 is offline Member
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    Jan 2011
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    Would like to know how things worked out for you. I made it down to about 40mg / day from a 140mg/day opiate intake. I was about to go on a trip and about to run out so I went on the subs. Been on 8 months now and I can tell you these too will get a hold of you. Be careful and it sounds like you are.

    My experience for induction was about 48 hours, maybe slightly less. I was definitely in w/d and I didn't have any issues. I can relate about being scared as.....I still am 8 months into it. I would highly suggest, if you haven't already, looking at the sticky on top by Robert. The induction process looks spot on, I wished I would have come across this when I got on them but it wasn't too long after that I educated myself and realized my doctor wasn't necessarily looking out for my best interest. Not that he is totally bad but like one thread I recently read and something I have always thought about is these doctors don't get hooked on pain meds, wean themselves off and then go on subs only to wean themselves off that.

    Imperative to see the real deal and that is on this site. I have read just about every site out there and while there are a lot of differing opinions and procedures, etc. the plain truth is you have to be careful with subs. I found myself taking them for energy and spent about 3 weeks taking more than I should because I've just gone so long taking something 3-4 times a day. Crazy stuff.

    Be safe and please update. A lot of people can gain from your experience. More than you probably know.

    FM11

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