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Going from methadone to zubsolv or suboxone
  1. #61
    FNG2 is offline Member
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    I was close, real real close to dosing on them emergency waffers, as this to me is a emergency. However, hearing from you both, then a talk with my wife, and then my mother, I will be waiting it out and going to the appointment tomorrow at 8am. If something happens then for some un-godly reason, I will be force to resend and go back to the cuffs. I pray with everything that my appointment tomorrow stays. There are a few hours today that will melt the ice on the roads. It will be 20 degrees in the morning tomorrow, today it was 10 degrees.
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  2. #62
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by FNG2 View Post
    I was close, real real close to dosing on them emergency waffers, as this to me is a emergency. However, hearing from you both, then a talk with my wife, and then my mother, I will be waiting it out and going to the appointment tomorrow at 8am. If something happens then for some un-godly reason, I will be force to resend and go back to the cuffs. I pray with everything that my appointment tomorrow stays. There are a few hours today that will melt the ice on the roads. It will be 20 degrees in the morning tomorrow, today it was 10 degrees.

    Ok, good, that's sounds great. I hope I didn't scare you with my message. Definitely not my intent and hopefully you know that. I just know what state of mind you're in right now and this is one very tough deal to accomplish. I'm thankful you have your wife there with you during this time. If not you may have already given in and took those wafers?

    Half the day is over. Tomorrow morning will be here soon. Keep fighting. You're much stronger than you might realize. I'm very proud of you. Be proud of yourself too!

    Randy
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  3. #63
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey Randy or snob lol... I so understand what you are saying. I am no doctor just an addict sharing my experience. With that said Fgn is taking the clonidine which will bring it down prolly 50%imo.. it's all the process of Methadone withdrawals which we both know well, yes depending on each individual past medical history height weight age etc we are all different. So yes FGN if you feel your heart rate is high you might want to go to the emergency room as I said I'm not a doctor.

    *Randy today I know we can have difference of opinion
    I still think you Rock my friend*
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  4. #64
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    Again I am so grateful for the help for you both, I truely am. Its easy to hear the wife say one thing, but to hear it from others who have been in the exact position helps tremendously. Since taking the clonidine my heart rate is averaging 98 beats per minute. I have come to accept that my eyes will never truly dilate, no idea why but it looks like it wont happen. I just had my 3rd diarrhea today, I know I need to try and eat something but dont want to create more. I still feel like trash, but the clonidine has kept me somewhat calm, as in not moving in discomfort as much. Is there any doubt at all about starting suboxone after 102 hours, that is a looong time! The time is eing measured from my last dose, not the time of last skipped dose, Sunday morning at 2am was last dose I took. So moday would be first skipped dose, at 2am. I been dosing early since getting down to 60, and once at 40 it was 2am.
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  5. #65
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by FNG2 View Post
    Again I am so grateful for the help for you both, I truely am. Its easy to hear the wife say one thing, but to hear it from others who have been in the exact position helps tremendously. Since taking the clonidine my heart rate is averaging 98 beats per minute. I have come to accept that my eyes will never truly dilate, no idea why but it looks like it wont happen. I just had my 3rd diarrhea today, I know I need to try and eat something but dont want to create more. I still feel like trash, but the clonidine has kept me somewhat calm, as in not moving in discomfort as much. Is there any doubt at all about starting suboxone after 102 hours, that is a looong time! The time is eing measured from my last dose, not the time of last skipped dose, Sunday morning at 2am was last dose I took. So moday would be first skipped dose, at 2am. I been dosing early since getting down to 60, and once at 40 it was 2am.

    I would bet the farm that you'll be ready for induction in the morning. I've helped a lot of people go from Methadone to Suboxone and of course I did it too. Out of every person in the group only one person waited longer than my 90 hours after my last dose of Methadone. And that person took 94 hours to reach a score of 26 on the Cows. I was with that person and scoring her myself so this is accurate. I'm sure you'll be fine at your appointment.

    As for the diarrhea. We always suggest Imodium for that, but not in this case. It would help the diarrhea, but positively put your Cows on a complete stop. Imodium is an opiate-based product, but doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier. So no high or euphoria. And it can be addictive. We had one guy here not too long ago that was addicted to Imodium. He was taking over 200 pills a day he said. Wow! So as awful as diarrhea is, it's a part of the process unfortunately.

    Make certain to drink LOTS of fluids so you stay hydrated. With that diarrhea you'll become dehydrated quickly and that will not be helpful. Water is best, but gatorade and such liquids are fine too.

    The hours are going by any friend.

    Randy
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  6. #66
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lvg nghtmare View Post
    Hey Randy or snob lol... I so understand what you are saying. I am no doctor just an addict sharing my experience. With that said Fgn is taking the clonidine which will bring it down prolly 50%imo.. it's all the process of Methadone withdrawals which we both know well, yes depending on each individual past medical history height weight age etc we are all different. So yes FGN if you feel your heart rate is high you might want to go to the emergency room as I said I'm not a doctor.

    *Randy today I know we can have difference of opinion
    I still think you Rock my friend*

    Hey My Friend -

    Thanks for your understanding on this matter. Really appreciate that, and I truly appreciate YOU! Once FNG is on his way and has safely inducted remind me and I'll tell you a story that might interest you.

    Randy
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  7. #67
    FNG2 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy35 View Post
    I would bet the farm that you'll be ready for induction in the morning. I've helped a lot of people go from Methadone to Suboxone and of course I did it too. Out of every person in the group only one person waited longer than my 90 hours after my last dose of Methadone. And that person took 94 hours to reach a score of 26 on the Cows. I was with that person and scoring her myself so this is accurate. I'm sure you'll be fine at your appointment.

    As for the diarrhea. We always suggest Imodium for that, but not in this case. It would help the diarrhea, but positively put your Cows on a complete stop. Imodium is an opiate-based product, but doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier. So no high or euphoria. And it can be addictive. We had one guy here not too long ago that was addicted to Imodium. He was taking over 200 pills a day he said. Wow! So as awful as diarrhea is, it's a part of the process unfortunately.

    Make certain to drink LOTS of fluids so you stay hydrated. With that diarrhea you'll become dehydrated quickly and that will not be helpful. Water is best, but gatorade and such liquids are fine too.

    The hours are going by any friend.

    Randy
    I sure hope so, Ive been at the high score on nearly everything just not all at the same time. As for water, I feel I am dehydrated already. The amount of times I have urinated, plus the tears, and the watering mouth I am drained. Ill drink more water, even though I get nausea and cramps. Just took a hot shower and going to try and get a hours sleep. Ill check in later, Thanks.

  8. #68
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    This too shall Pass.... stay hydrated get up get moving...
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  9. #69
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    Just wanted to give a update. I feel horrible, like I want to die, but as far as cows, I dont think I am a 26. I am on hour 88.5 since last dose, so unless something comes rapidly Im gonna say I am at the worse I will be. Ive been watching youtube videos of guys jumping off at 100mg mdone, they document the symptoms with a 10 minute video every day. It was helping me, until I got to one guy who jumped off at 111mg and was just to dang happy in all his videos. Maybe I just got irritated, who knows. I managed to eat a little bit of Ramen Noodle and drink the broth at lunch, then got a hot shower. Fell asleep for what I thought was a hour, but wife says it was maybe 15 minutes. Dont know that I will post again this evening unless something arrises that needs answer, like medically. My heart rate is a solid 99 since that clonidine, I did end up eating the whole thing. It doesnt make WDs go away, but it allowed me to deal with then and not move around so much. Thanks for reading and helping everyone!
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  10. #70
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by FNG2 View Post
    Just wanted to give a update. I feel horrible, like I want to die, but as far as cows, I dont think I am a 26. I am on hour 88.5 since last dose, so unless something comes rapidly Im gonna say I am at the worse I will be. Ive been watching youtube videos of guys jumping off at 100mg mdone, they document the symptoms with a 10 minute video every day. It was helping me, until I got to one guy who jumped off at 111mg and was just to dang happy in all his videos. Maybe I just got irritated, who knows. I managed to eat a little bit of Ramen Noodle and drink the broth at lunch, then got a hot shower. Fell asleep for what I thought was a hour, but wife says it was maybe 15 minutes. Dont know that I will post again this evening unless something arrises that needs answer, like medically. My heart rate is a solid 99 since that clonidine, I did end up eating the whole thing. It doesnt make WDs go away, but it allowed me to deal with then and not move around so much. Thanks for reading and helping everyone!


    If possible let us know what your Cows score is in the morning before you go to the doctor. And of course post and let us know how the appt went. Wishing you the best.

    Randy
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy35 View Post
    If possible let us know what your Cows score is in the morning before you go to the doctor. And of course post and let us know how the appt went. Wishing you the best.

    Randy
    I had replied twice last night from my phone but it never stayed as a post. So with COWs I am confused, as this assessment appears to be a 30 minute thing. I will never have all these things together inside of 30 minutes. Example..I had diarrhea 3 times yesterday, the COWs says diarrhea within 30 minutes. If you take my symptoms and dont use the time of 30 minutes, then yes I have met a 26. The highest at any one time was a 20.

    Last night I slept about 2.5 hours, woke up at 9:30pm until midnight, were I fell asleep again until 2:30am. In between 9:30 and 11:30 I am extremely irritated, any wrinkle in the sheet or blanket set me off. The emotional state has turned into irritation and anger, I had diarrhea again this morning, but I am dehydrated, so who knows when it will come again. I feel I can induct right now, in fact I prob would have been fine at my normal appointment time yesterday. I just cant imagine anybody being a 26 all within 30 minutes, maybe the pupil thing is really hurting my score, I seen a write up by some Dr who claims pupils are the tell tale sign of WDs. Thank god he is not my Dr, he prob wouldnt believe me that I am in WD. Sorry, I am just irritated. Right now I would say I am at a 17 to 19 or so on COWs, That is including my diarrhea from 1 hour ago.

    I dont know what else to say about this COWs sheet, it is not a one size fits all thing, thats for sure. In 3 hours I will be leaving to my appointment, I will be sure to let everyone know what happens. I hope they take into account that I will be at 102 hours since last mdone dose when I am in this assessment.
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  12. #72
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by FNG2 View Post
    I had replied twice last night from my phone but it never stayed as a post. So with COWs I am confused, as this assessment appears to be a 30 minute thing. I will never have all these things together inside of 30 minutes. Example..I had diarrhea 3 times yesterday, the COWs says diarrhea within 30 minutes. If you take my symptoms and dont use the time of 30 minutes, then yes I have met a 26. The highest at any one time was a 20.

    Last night I slept about 2.5 hours, woke up at 9:30pm until midnight, were I fell asleep again until 2:30am. In between 9:30 and 11:30 I am extremely irritated, any wrinkle in the sheet or blanket set me off. The emotional state has turned into irritation and anger, I had diarrhea again this morning, but I am dehydrated, so who knows when it will come again. I feel I can induct right now, in fact I prob would have been fine at my normal appointment time yesterday. I just cant imagine anybody being a 26 all within 30 minutes, maybe the pupil thing is really hurting my score, I seen a write up by some Dr who claims pupils are the tell tale sign of WDs. Thank god he is not my Dr, he prob wouldnt believe me that I am in WD. Sorry, I am just irritated. Right now I would say I am at a 17 to 19 or so on COWs, That is including my diarrhea from 1 hour ago.

    I dont know what else to say about this COWs sheet, it is not a one size fits all thing, thats for sure. In 3 hours I will be leaving to my appointment, I will be sure to let everyone know what happens. I hope they take into account that I will be at 102 hours since last mdone dose when I am in this assessment.


    The "time" limit on the Cows is something we rarely ever mention here, and I didn't say anything about it because I didn't believe it would be an issue with you. I NEVER use the "30 minute" time frame measure because I think it's unfair. I always suggest if you have a score of 26 or higher within a 2-3 hour period that is an accurate measure of your wd's and it would be perfectly safe for an induction to subs. So if you're at a 26 score in that time frame I say you're good to go.

    The pupil thing is not normal. Small, or pinpoint pupils are a sign of wd's and most look for that symptom as a way to tell. But it doesn happen for everyone and you're one of those that it doesn't. Don't say a word about it in the doctors office. Your wife will let the doctor know just how severe your wd's are if he says anything about it, which hopefully he won't.

    Not long now my friend. I just want to take this time to tell you just how PROUD of you I am. I know what you're doing is one of the hardest things you'll ever do, but it will turn out to be something that will help you to a new, clean life after you eventually taper off the subs. You've hung in there and fought hard for DAYS. Not an easy thing to do. Very proud of you!

    I have to go to work today. I'll do my best to keep checking on you as often as I possibly can. Good luck at the appt. Hope everything goes well.

    Randy

  13. #73
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Good Job Fng, I'm proud of you too.. keep us updated...
    You got this..
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  14. #74
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    Started Induction!!! On my way home will report back once I am at the house. For some reason I have a rough time posting from my phone.
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  15. #75
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Congratulations!!! I know you suffered for quite a while. So proud of you!!

    Beef
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  16. #76
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    OK, this post will be somewhat long, I have a interesting story to tell with it!

    We got there at 10 minutes to 8am, this is my appointment time. There was a woman sitting in the lobby, with a file or notebook. She seemed calm, like all is well. I then realize my Dr is also a Physiatrist, what ever. Im not crazy, just in need of my switch to zubsovl. So the lady treating me calls this woman back, she comes out a few minutes later and leaves. My Dr cracks the door, I catch her observing me every 5 minutes or so. BOOM I have to go hit the toilet, diarrhea again. The wife busts into the bathroom tells me to come back I have to do a UA. I got back get the cup and run back to the toilet. Upon returning when I enter the office, that so called calm woman is back and moving quick like to the water cooler. I pay it no mind and head to the nurse to hand my sample off. Suddenly as I am going back to the lobby that woman is running towards the door! She had gotten some sort of prescription change and had been pounding on the front desk yelling "why did she do this to me? Fine, its time to take my meds!" She proceeds to open one of the three bottles, tilt the bottle to her mouth and dumped them all, took a huge gulp of water and threw it at the front desk ladies! She then runs out the front door!!! Me and another patient were going to go catch her, for 911 to take her away. They said no, do not go outside, it could prove dangerous. Cops came and she was taken to the E.R. what a sight to see while dope sick and waiting for my appointment!

    Onto the Induction. It was done in my car, they wrote me a script. To think I could have gotten the script Monday when they called to get some info and offer me a appointment that afternoon, again whatever that is water under the bridge. I am called back, get a apology for yesterday, and the crazy woman. The Physiatrist goes over COWs the whole process took 5 minutes, some things she answers on her own, some she asks me but looks at the wife for her reactions. I give her all the answers she asks for, she then proceeds to ask if I need to see a Physiatrist and want to off myself. I say No, I just need to change to zubsovl, that all. She has to call her boss to get what strength to prescribe me, I guess they are 5.7mg is equal to 8mg of suboxone. I was given a script for 5 zubsovl's and must return monday to see if I am stable. The dose is 5.7mg bup and 1.4mg naloxone. I took a small piece to make sure I didnt end up in PWDs (COWs was a 18, she also commented on my pupils and asked if I had a head injury..No) I felt a small wave after 10 minutes, waited another 20 and took another piece. I have taken about 3/4 of the pill, so maybe 6mg of suboxone? I feel so much better, but am still tired and sore, so cant real tell if all WD are gone yet. Oh! Dr also says I need to stay on zubsovl for 1 year, than come off slowly. I didnt argue this, I needed my script! Note..I do NOT want to be on this for a whole year, 4 months max is what I am thinking, thats it. I was also instructed to take the whole pill at once daily, not to half them. I guess by monday we here will know what I need to do and what to tell this Dr.

    I am extremely thankful for all the help and support given by everyone! Randy, sorry if I gave you troubles with this whole COWs thing. I still feel the highest score I hit was a 20, at any given time I was more closer to a 15 throughout the process. Just remember me when someone says "my pupils will not dialate" lol. Had they dilated, that wouldve put me at the 26 for sure! It was a long haul, but we made it, without the support from my wife and you guys here, I wouldve went back to mdone as soon as they called me to cancel that appointment. I am going to try and get a little rest, we are tired here, I put the wife through a lot during these 102 hours.

    Anyone with some info on the zubsovl and its real equivalents to the suboxone pill can you help me figure out what I should be doing dose wise. I know the pan calls for splitting the dose in half, 12 hours maybe 5am and 5pm. I am going to holdoff and get this dose time back on track, mdone got earlier and earlier to where I was dosing at 2am every morning, and not going back to bed.

    Thank you again, all of you!!!

    edit..the woman who downed the pills was OK, the cops came and they got her to the E.R. fairly quick.

  17. #77
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by FNG2 View Post
    OK, this post will be somewhat long, I have a interesting story to tell with it!

    We got there at 10 minutes to 8am, this is my appointment time. There was a woman sitting in the lobby, with a file or notebook. She seemed calm, like all is well. I then realize my Dr is also a Physiatrist, what ever. Im not crazy, just in need of my switch to zubsovl. So the lady treating me calls this woman back, she comes out a few minutes later and leaves. My Dr cracks the door, I catch her observing me every 5 minutes or so. BOOM I have to go hit the toilet, diarrhea again. The wife busts into the bathroom tells me to come back I have to do a UA. I got back get the cup and run back to the toilet. Upon returning when I enter the office, that so called calm woman is back and moving quick like to the water cooler. I pay it no mind and head to the nurse to hand my sample off. Suddenly as I am going back to the lobby that woman is running towards the door! She had gotten some sort of prescription change and had been pounding on the front desk yelling "why did she do this to me? Fine, its time to take my meds!" She proceeds to open one of the three bottles, tilt the bottle to her mouth and dumped them all, took a huge gulp of water and threw it at the front desk ladies! She then runs out the front door!!! Me and another patient were going to go catch her, for 911 to take her away. They said no, do not go outside, it could prove dangerous. Cops came and she was taken to the E.R. what a sight to see while dope sick and waiting for my appointment!

    Onto the Induction. It was done in my car, they wrote me a script. To think I could have gotten the script Monday when they called to get some info and offer me a appointment that afternoon, again whatever that is water under the bridge. I am called back, get a apology for yesterday, and the crazy woman. The Physiatrist goes over COWs the whole process took 5 minutes, some things she answers on her own, some she asks me but looks at the wife for her reactions. I give her all the answers she asks for, she then proceeds to ask if I need to see a Physiatrist and want to off myself. I say No, I just need to change to zubsovl, that all. She has to call her boss to get what strength to prescribe me, I guess they are 5.7mg is equal to 8mg of suboxone. I was given a script for 5 zubsovl's and must return monday to see if I am stable. The dose is 5.7mg bup and 1.4mg naloxone. I took a small piece to make sure I didnt end up in PWDs (COWs was a 18, she also commented on my pupils and asked if I had a head injury..No) I felt a small wave after 10 minutes, waited another 20 and took another piece. I have taken about 3/4 of the pill, so maybe 6mg of suboxone? I feel so much better, but am still tired and sore, so cant real tell if all WD are gone yet. Oh! Dr also says I need to stay on zubsovl for 1 year, than come off slowly. I didnt argue this, I needed my script! Note..I do NOT want to be on this for a whole year, 4 months max is what I am thinking, thats it. I was also instructed to take the whole pill at once daily, not to half them. I guess by monday we here will know what I need to do and what to tell this Dr.

    I am extremely thankful for all the help and support given by everyone! Randy, sorry if I gave you troubles with this whole COWs thing. I still feel the highest score I hit was a 20, at any given time I was more closer to a 15 throughout the process. Just remember me when someone says "my pupils will not dialate" lol. Had they dilated, that wouldve put me at the 26 for sure! It was a long haul, but we made it, without the support from my wife and you guys here, I wouldve went back to mdone as soon as they called me to cancel that appointment. I am going to try and get a little rest, we are tired here, I put the wife through a lot during these 102 hours.

    Anyone with some info on the zubsovl and its real equivalents to the suboxone pill can you help me figure out what I should be doing dose wise. I know the pan calls for splitting the dose in half, 12 hours maybe 5am and 5pm. I am going to holdoff and get this dose time back on track, mdone got earlier and earlier to where I was dosing at 2am every morning, and not going back to bed.

    Thank you again, all of you!!!

    edit..the woman who downed the pills was OK, the cops came and they got her to the E.R. fairly quick.


    Wow, that's quite a story. Glad it didn't interfere with your time there too much.

    Anyway, your info is absolutely correct....5.7mg of Zubsolv is equal to 8mg of Suboxone. It can be difficult at times to figure out the doses of Zubsolv when tapering, but I/we can certainly help you with that so no worries.

    A couple things that are important right now. Take as little of the Zubsolv as you possibly can, but it's entirely possible you could require more especially coming from Methadone. Theres no doubt you're still in wd's from the mdone, but the sub will be covering it up. So you may feel a little wd's the next couple days because of this, but nothing too severe, and nothing you can't handle.

    Another thing I would do if I were you is after today and maybe tomorrow, and you don't feel the 5.7mg is enough, is to inform the doctor you feel that the 5.7mg of Zubsolv isn't enough. Hopefully they will prescribe more. Now don't take more, but instead save all the extra you will have for later. The hope is they will give you enough sub to last for the entire taper and you won't have to see the doctor again unless you want to.

    Once the sub gets in your system fully you'll begin feeling much, much better. Allow what you've taken to work for the next couple hours at least. In around 3 hours or so if you're not feeling well and feel you're still having wd's then most certainly take another very small amount of the Zubsolv. Remember a tiny bit goes a long way with this stuff.

    You've done an outstanding job. Get some rest and let us know later how you're doing. I'll check back and we'll go from there. And of course you're so welcome fo the help. Glad I could be here.

    Randy

  18. #78
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    I think I will need to take a small piece, I have slight tremor still, heart rate still high, around 91 on average. I normally run around 77 bpm. Waiting as long as I can, I dont want to end up on the 2am dosing schedule I have been doing on with mdone. Also, they only gave me 5 pills total, and I have to return Monday for a follow up. then I must go weekly for 1 month, after that it will be once per month. I made mention of wanting to come off the zubsolv rather quickly, 3 to 4 month max. I got the "we like the patient to stabilize for 1 year before coming off". My instinct was to say I have been stabilized for 10 years already! But I bit my tongue and let her speak, no way was I gonna piss her off. So tomorrow, I split my dose, say half a dose at 5am and other half at 5pm? Dr had instructed me to take the whole dang thing at once, not even a test piece for PWDs. That said, she knew I was at 102 hours since last mdone, and I looked like I had been hit by a train.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-18-2018 at 05:06 PM.
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  19. #79
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    Also, a little confused on how to take this properly. It says dissolve under tongue for 5 to 10 minutes, but I make a lot of saliva when doing this. Can/Do I swallow the juice?

  20. #80
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by FNG2 View Post
    Also, a little confused on how to take this properly. It says dissolve under tongue for 5 to 10 minutes, but I make a lot of saliva when doing this. Can/Do I swallow the juice?


    Ok, theres two ways to do this. Some people say to drink some type of fluids before you take the Suboxone/Zubsolv to "moisten" your mouth. This is reported to make the sub dissolve quicker. I always made certain I hadn't eaten or drank anything for at least 30 minutes before I took my sub. I wanted my mouth completely dry so hopefully I didn't produce any saliva. And that worked perfectly for me. Those that I help I always suggest they too follow what I did and have your mouth as dry as possible by not eating or drinking for at least 30 minutes beforehand. But it's your call of course.

    Never spit out the "juice" because you'll never know how much of the sub you have digested. Some people can produce saliva at the drop of a hat, while others have a naturally dry mouth. Do your very best to allow the sub to remain under your tongue for as long as it takes to completely dissolve. Usually 5-10 minutes is enough, but on occasion it could take a few minutes longer, or even a shorter amount of time before it dissolves completely.

    Try to cut one of the 5.7mg Zubsolv in half and you'll have 2 pieces that are 2.85mg each. If you're careful and use a single edge razor blade you can do this usually without problems. Cutting those in half again will give you 4 pieces that are all about 1.42mg each. To get lower doses you'll probably have to crush them into a fine powder using either the back of a spoon or similar object, or purchase a pill crusher available at most any pharmacy.

    You take whatever piece you have and crush it up until it's very fine. Separate the pile into even amounts for whatever dose you want. Then it's just a matter of folding a business card down the middle, place the powder onto it, and pour it under your tongue. Sounds difficult, but it really isn't. I used this method when all I had were the generic Suboxone pills and I didn't have any problems.

    Some of these sub doctors want patients back every week, or every two weeks so they can charge them more money. Not saying yours is, but that's what happens most of the time. That's one reason I suggested you get as many of the subs as you can and hang onto them for later use. Will you have to pay for each weekly visit if you don't mind saying? Makes me so mad when they do this.

    Anyway if you feel you need more then take as little as you possibly can. Under no circumstances will you ever need more than the equivalent of more than 10mg of Suboxone. No one ever requires that amount. If you have to dose late into the night tonight that's ok. Then tomorrow we start with 1/2 of the total you took today and go from there. You'll have the sub from today in your system and it will be much easier to get you completely stable tomorrow. It appears you're very close to being completely stable. Just a little more should do it.

    Randy
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  21. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy35 View Post
    Ok, theres two ways to do this. Some people say to drink some type of fluids before you take the Suboxone/Zubsolv to "moisten" your mouth. This is reported to make the sub dissolve quicker. I always made certain I hadn't eaten or drank anything for at least 30 minutes before I took my sub. I wanted my mouth completely dry so hopefully I didn't produce any saliva. And that worked perfectly for me. Those that I help I always suggest they too follow what I did and have your mouth as dry as possible by not eating or drinking for at least 30 minutes beforehand. But it's your call of course.

    Never spit out the "juice" because you'll never know how much of the sub you have digested. Some people can produce saliva at the drop of a hat, while others have a naturally dry mouth. Do your very best to allow the sub to remain under your tongue for as long as it takes to completely dissolve. Usually 5-10 minutes is enough, but on occasion it could take a few minutes longer, or even a shorter amount of time before it dissolves completely.

    Try to cut one of the 5.7mg Zubsolv in half and you'll have 2 pieces that are 2.85mg each. If you're careful and use a single edge razor blade you can do this usually without problems. Cutting those in half again will give you 4 pieces that are all about 1.42mg each. To get lower doses you'll probably have to crush them into a fine powder using either the back of a spoon or similar object, or purchase a pill crusher available at most any pharmacy.

    You take whatever piece you have and crush it up until it's very fine. Separate the pile into even amounts for whatever dose you want. Then it's just a matter of folding a business card down the middle, place the powder onto it, and pour it under your tongue. Sounds difficult, but it really isn't. I used this method when all I had were the generic Suboxone pills and I didn't have any problems.

    Some of these sub doctors want patients back every week, or every two weeks so they can charge them more money. Not saying yours is, but that's what happens most of the time. That's one reason I suggested you get as many of the subs as you can and hang onto them for later use. Will you have to pay for each weekly visit if you don't mind saying? Makes me so mad when they do this.

    Anyway if you feel you need more then take as little as you possibly can. Under no circumstances will you ever need more than the equivalent of more than 10mg of Suboxone. No one ever requires that amount. If you have to dose late into the night tonight that's ok. Then tomorrow we start with 1/2 of the total you took today and go from there. You'll have the sub from today in your system and it will be much easier to get you completely stable tomorrow. It appears you're very close to being completely stable. Just a little more should do it.

    Randy
    Here I am at 2:30am, been awake for about a hour now, not by choice though. My body is wanting the mdone dose, maybe not even my body, but its my mind. I am not going to give in, I know that I do not "need" it right now, as I am not having any WDs at the moment. It has just been a bad bad habit of dosing mdone this early. As my dose lowered the time I would wake up got earlier and earlier. Going to hold off until 4am, I need to break this habit and get more than 5 hours sleep per night.

    These pills are tiny, when I last seen a sub it was quite large and orange in color. Point being is the sub dissolves quickly but the mint flavor makes me salivate, the juice then has nowhere to go but up onto the tongue area. Gonna try the no drink for 30 minutes to see if this helps.

    As for the visits, I am sure these are billed. In fact every time I come in I am also expected to give a UA. Funny you mention the money grab, thats the first thing I thought of when she explained the scheduling to me. It also corresponds with the "we like patients to stabilize for 1 year before tapering off". Rather being treated on a per case basis, I was instantly lumped into the cookie cutter protocol. Oh, my scripts will also be for 1 week at this time as well, a $35 copay each time. Its only for the first month though, then I go to monthly visits. At the end of the day, this first month will still be cheaper than my mdone clinic. I cant believe how those places can charge so much for a med that cost $1 a day.

    I did end up taking more last night, in fact I took what was left. I do believe it was a little much though. I almost felt speedy, but in a bad way. Given the half life I will try to take the equivalent of 3mg suboxone around 4am, then the same at 4pm. Either that or I was thinking maybe 4mg and then 2mg in evening, would something like that make taper more difficult though?

    I think when I go back I will mention I am good all day, but towards dinner time I am having slight WD feelings. See if I can get the smaller 2mg (subsoxone equivalent) added to my protocol. Not too take, but to save up of course

    Forgot to mention, I had bought a digital scale from Amazon, in case the whole sub thing failed and I was force to come off the mdone with what I have saved up. Ill be able to do the crush thing and get a good accurate dose split. Today I plan to burn all $36,000 worth of my mdone receipts (yes I have every single one, sad isnt it) and dispose of the mdone somehow. Not quite sure how that will go though, I have close to 50 waffers to ditch.

    Once again, Thank You!
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  22. #82
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    Forgot to mention, my Zubsolv pills were expired by one day. Called the pharmacy and raised a little H E Double Hockey Sticks! They offered me to come back and trade them for unexpired ones. I didnt take them up, but asked to make sure when I return monday to have a fresh batch.
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  23. #83
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by FNG2 View Post
    Here I am at 2:30am, been awake for about a hour now, not by choice though. My body is wanting the mdone dose, maybe not even my body, but its my mind. I am not going to give in, I know that I do not "need" it right now, as I am not having any WDs at the moment. It has just been a bad bad habit of dosing mdone this early. As my dose lowered the time I would wake up got earlier and earlier. Going to hold off until 4am, I need to break this habit and get more than 5 hours sleep per night.

    These pills are tiny, when I last seen a sub it was quite large and orange in color. Point being is the sub dissolves quickly but the mint flavor makes me salivate, the juice then has nowhere to go but up onto the tongue area. Gonna try the no drink for 30 minutes to see if this helps.

    As for the visits, I am sure these are billed. In fact every time I come in I am also expected to give a UA. Funny you mention the money grab, thats the first thing I thought of when she explained the scheduling to me. It also corresponds with the "we like patients to stabilize for 1 year before tapering off". Rather being treated on a per case basis, I was instantly lumped into the cookie cutter protocol. Oh, my scripts will also be for 1 week at this time as well, a $35 copay each time. Its only for the first month though, then I go to monthly visits. At the end of the day, this first month will still be cheaper than my mdone clinic. I cant believe how those places can charge so much for a med that cost $1 a day.

    I did end up taking more last night, in fact I took what was left. I do believe it was a little much though. I almost felt speedy, but in a bad way. Given the half life I will try to take the equivalent of 3mg suboxone around 4am, then the same at 4pm. Either that or I was thinking maybe 4mg and then 2mg in evening, would something like that make taper more difficult though?

    I think when I go back I will mention I am good all day, but towards dinner time I am having slight WD feelings. See if I can get the smaller 2mg (subsoxone equivalent) added to my protocol. Not too take, but to save up of course

    Forgot to mention, I had bought a digital scale from Amazon, in case the whole sub thing failed and I was force to come off the mdone with what I have saved up. Ill be able to do the crush thing and get a good accurate dose split. Today I plan to burn all $36,000 worth of my mdone receipts (yes I have every single one, sad isnt it) and dispose of the mdone somehow. Not quite sure how that will go though, I have close to 50 waffers to ditch.

    Once again, Thank You!


    Good Morning!

    Take a minute to look and remember how this process developed from the moment you stopped the Methadone to taking your first dose of Zubsolv. Your story will help many in the same position. Your in a great position now to help others through it because you've lived it. Isn't it amazing how you can go from deathly ill in Methadone wd's to feeling pretty good with a dose of Zubsolv? The longer you wait in wd's the less sub it will take to make you feel better. I've tried to explain that to many, but sometimes it's difficult to imagine unless you've gone through it. Again, you did one Awesome job!

    Great, the scale will come in handy. Glad you have it. If you can get those 2mg (Suboxone equivalent) pills it will really be helpful.

    Dosing time(s): Yes, you really need to break the habit of dosing in the very early am. It's a habit that's tough to break, but I know you can do it. What we suggest is dosing in the morning when you get up and around, and later in the day, about 8-10 hours after the first dose. And try to split your dose evenly if possible. We suggest dosing twice per day when your over 1mg (Suboxone equivalent) and doing once when under 1mg. Would it make the taper more difficult....absolutely not.

    The saliva issue: If the 30-minute wait isn't helpful let me know because I have another trick up my sleeve that WILL work for you. Usually having a dry mouth takes care of the problem, but if not let me know. If you know the pill has completely dissolved, but you have lots of saliva go ahead and swallow it as it won't hurt a thing so long as the pill has been absorbed.

    Good idea to get rid of those wafers and scripts. Too tempting to have around, especially during this time. So wave bye-bye to them all.

    Let me know how you're doing today. I'll be working but can take a peek now and then.

    Randy

  24. #84
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Great job FNG...
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  25. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by FNG2 View Post
    Forgot to mention, my Zubsolv pills were expired by one day. Called the pharmacy and raised a little H E Double Hockey Sticks! They offered me to come back and trade them for unexpired ones. I didnt take them up, but asked to make sure when I return monday to have a fresh batch.

    Hey FNG -

    Checking in to see how you are feeling? When you get a minute please let us know how it's going. Thanks.

    Randy

  26. #86
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    Sorry, was out and about with the wife running errands. Its hard to accurately judge how I feel today, I am still tired from the whole WD event. Im also somewhat dehydrated still, so between all that I have ups and downs. Earlier this morning I was great, having takes my med at 4am I planned to wait until 2pm or so before taking it again. However, around 12:30 I began to feel run down. I cant say if this is still mdone WDs coming through, or if I am still trying to recover from the previous days. My best guess is I am still recovering, only time will tell. One thing I did notice, my body seemed to be looking for that medicine induced nod. I dont get that with zubsolv, and I am happy for that, but a big part of me isnt. Does that make sense? I was on mdone for nearly 10 years, and my drop from 60 to 30 was done in a months time with 1 week at 30mg before I started WD. I feel I should have done that a little more slowly now when I reflect back. I just took my 2nd dose of the day, if my mood doesnt improve, then I know its from being so worn out.

    Let me verify something please. Once the pill dissolves, the medicine has been absorbed? Just now I had very dry mouth (fallen asleep shortly) and nearly instantly of the piece being under my tongue I was producing massive saliva. So much I had to push the pill back down before it was fully dissolved. Never knew my mouth was even capable of that much saliva!

  27. #87
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Hi FNG and Welcome!

    Sorry I haven't stopped here sooner to welcome you. I see from your last post that you dosed a little earlier this afternoon than planned because you felt run down. You are making the switch from done and this is one of the hardest to do. If I were you, I'd push through those low times if that's the only bothersome symptom and do your best to dose at the right time. Things will level out and it will become easier to wait for your second dose but for now, it'll likely be a little challenging. Now is the best time to begin really good habits and resist the temptation to dose with lesser symptoms. Minor symptoms are bound to come on with some of your reductions and so learn now to accept it and have faith that given a little time, it'll pass. This isn't a criticism just a bit of advice.

    As far as the really wet mouth, I'll let Randy come back and give you that tip he has up his sleeve. I have no idea what to suggest.

    You've done great by the way.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  28. #88
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by FNG2 View Post
    Sorry, was out and about with the wife running errands. Its hard to accurately judge how I feel today, I am still tired from the whole WD event. Im also somewhat dehydrated still, so between all that I have ups and downs. Earlier this morning I was great, having takes my med at 4am I planned to wait until 2pm or so before taking it again. However, around 12:30 I began to feel run down. I cant say if this is still mdone WDs coming through, or if I am still trying to recover from the previous days. My best guess is I am still recovering, only time will tell. One thing I did notice, my body seemed to be looking for that medicine induced nod. I dont get that with zubsolv, and I am happy for that, but a big part of me isnt. Does that make sense? I was on mdone for nearly 10 years, and my drop from 60 to 30 was done in a months time with 1 week at 30mg before I started WD. I feel I should have done that a little more slowly now when I reflect back. I just took my 2nd dose of the day, if my mood doesnt improve, then I know its from being so worn out.

    Let me verify something please. Once the pill dissolves, the medicine has been absorbed? Just now I had very dry mouth (fallen asleep shortly) and nearly instantly of the piece being under my tongue I was producing massive saliva. So much I had to push the pill back down before it was fully dissolved. Never knew my mouth was even capable of that much saliva!


    Hey -

    Glad you were able to get out of the house for a while. You really needed to do that.

    As I said before, you're still in Methadone wd's but the Zubsolv is covering up those wd's right now. It takes a while for ALL the Methadone to leave your system because of it's long half life. Give this a little more time and you'll begin feeling much better I promise.

    Suboxone/Zubsolv can most certainly dehydrate you. Make sure you're always drinking lots of fluids. Very important. Water, water, and more water is suggested.

    As Cat mentioned, when you're feeling those run down issues at midday try your best to push through until dosing time. To feel your best it's very important to dose at the same times. This helps your body level out and become more routine. If you change times you confuse things and your body will always be trying to adjust, and you'll feel it. Once you push through a couple times things will even out.

    As for the saliva problem....Try this....When you put the dose under your tongue let it dissolve for about a minute to become a sort of "paste". Right before any saliva can build up take your tongue and move the partly dissolved pill/paste to first one side of the inside of your cheek, then the other cheek on the inside. This is what I call "painting" and it works great for those with too much saliva buildup. You have mucus membranes in the cheeks same as under your tongue. This should help take care of the matter.

    Randy
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  29. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catrina View Post
    Hi FNG and Welcome!

    Sorry I haven't stopped here sooner to welcome you. I see from your last post that you dosed a little earlier this afternoon than planned because you felt run down. You are making the switch from done and this is one of the hardest to do. If I were you, I'd push through those low times if that's the only bothersome symptom and do your best to dose at the right time. Things will level out and it will become easier to wait for your second dose but for now, it'll likely be a little challenging. Now is the best time to begin really good habits and resist the temptation to dose with lesser symptoms. Minor symptoms are bound to come on with some of your reductions and so learn now to accept it and have faith that given a little time, it'll pass. This isn't a criticism just a bit of advice.

    As far as the really wet mouth, I'll let Randy come back and give you that tip he has up his sleeve. I have no idea what to suggest.

    You've done great by the way.

    Peace,

    Cat
    Hello, Thanks!

    And you are 100% right, I need to develop some sort of structured dose schedule. Ive decided on 4am and 2pm, and would like to get the 4am dose even a bit later. I am still up around 2:30am due to that being my mdone dose time for so long. This morning was easier to wait until 4 so I hope the wait for this afternoon will be easier as well. I also think yesterdays morning dose was swallowed too soon.
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  30. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy35 View Post
    Hey -

    Glad you were able to get out of the house for a while. You really needed to do that.

    As I said before, you're still in Methadone wd's but the Zubsolv is covering up those wd's right now. It takes a while for ALL the Methadone to leave your system because of it's long half life. Give this a little more time and you'll begin feeling much better I promise.

    Suboxone/Zubsolv can most certainly dehydrate you. Make sure you're always drinking lots of fluids. Very important. Water, water, and more water is suggested.

    As Cat mentioned, when you're feeling those run down issues at midday try your best to push through until dosing time. To feel your best it's very important to dose at the same times. This helps your body level out and become more routine. If you change times you confuse things and your body will always be trying to adjust, and you'll feel it. Once you push through a couple times things will even out.

    As for the saliva problem....Try this....When you put the dose under your tongue let it dissolve for about a minute to become a sort of "paste". Right before any saliva can build up take your tongue and move the partly dissolved pill/paste to first one side of the inside of your cheek, then the other cheek on the inside. This is what I call "painting" and it works great for those with too much saliva buildup. You have mucus membranes in the cheeks same as under your tongue. This should help take care of the matter.

    Randy
    Hello and Good Morning!

    So this morning it was easier to wait until 4am, I am hoping for the same results this afternoon as well. I attempted to do the painting method, but these zubsolvs are so dang tiny. You have seen a 0.100 Clonidine pill I assume, it is smaller than that! I do believe I did a better job absorbing this morning compared to yesterday morning.

    Oh, yesterday I did not take the whole pill either, I had a small piece left over. Im gonna need to figure out some way to store the pieces I do not use, as well as the pieces that will be my afternoon med.Today we are going to the Science Museum here in Houston, and Ill need to bring my afternoons med along. I guess I can use a small empty script bottle, and just drop it in there. Might look bad if I had one of the little vials they use for methamphetamine LOL.
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