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Going from methadone to zubsolv or suboxone
  1. #1
    FNG2 is offline Member
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    Default Going from methadone to zubsolv or suboxone

    Hello, I will be attempting to switch to zubsolv/suboxone on the 17th of this month. Yesterday was my clinic day for my methadone, I did not go. I have enough doses saved up to cover me for about a month @ 30mg per day. I am scared too death, so may "what if's" are in my mind right now. I've been on methadone for 10+ years and clean for the past 9+ years, with a dose that was @130mg per day (my highest). I am now kicked out of my clinic, a place I only had to go once per month. If something goes wrong I am toast! My insurance will pay for the zubsolv, but no suboxone pills or strips. If this Dr will not give me zubsolv I will be screwed (one of the what if's I am having). I am scared of getting sick, I will be on vacation from work for this switch, only I hope I will be stable in time to return (another what if). There is so much in my mind right now and I dont really have a place to seek answers from anyone who would truly understand. Please, if anyone has some advice, do not sugar coat it. I need the cold hard facts, I tend to prepare for the worse, and am thankful when it is less than that. What can I take leading up too the induction? I have Clonidine, Ibuprofen 800mg, Gabapentine, Imodium AD, and a muscle relaxer. I also have some good multi-vitamins and protein shakes, as well as Gatorade type drinks. I never abused my methadone, always taken as prescribed. What I have saved is from tapers I made at home.I am using the orange 40mg tablets, so clinic drops had to be done 10mg at a time.

    Thanks for reading.
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    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by FNG2 View Post
    Hello, I will be attempting to switch to zubsolv/suboxone on the 17th of this month. Yesterday was my clinic day for my methadone, I did not go. I have enough doses saved up to cover me for about a month @ 30mg per day. I am scared too death, so may "what if's" are in my mind right now. I've been on methadone for 10+ years and clean for the past 9+ years, with a dose that was @130mg per day (my highest). I am now kicked out of my clinic, a place I only had to go once per month. If something goes wrong I am toast! My insurance will pay for the zubsolv, but no suboxone pills or strips. If this Dr will not give me zubsolv I will be screwed (one of the what if's I am having). I am scared of getting sick, I will be on vacation from work for this switch, only I hope I will be stable in time to return (another what if). There is so much in my mind right now and I dont really have a place to seek answers from anyone who would truly understand. Please, if anyone has some advice, do not sugar coat it. I need the cold hard facts, I tend to prepare for the worse, and am thankful when it is less than that. What can I take leading up too the induction? I have Clonidine, Ibuprofen 800mg, Gabapentine, Imodium AD, and a muscle relaxer. I also have some good multi-vitamins and protein shakes, as well as Gatorade type drinks. I never abused my methadone, always taken as prescribed. What I have saved is from tapers I made at home.I am using the orange 40mg tablets, so clinic drops had to be done 10mg at a time.

    Thanks for reading.


    Welcome to the forum! You're in the right place for help and support.

    I assure you 100% you can make a successful switch from Methadone to Suboxone/Zubsolv. All you have to do is closely follow some very strict suggestions. The Number 1 suggestion is to NOT take the sub too soon. If you do you'll put yourself into precipitated wd's and be sicker than you can possibly imagine. And the wd's come on quickly and are extremely severe.

    For that reason we always suggest using the Cows to determine when it's safe for induction. The Cows (clinical opiate withdrawal scale) assigns numbers to different wd symptoms. Once you hit a score of 26 or higher you know it's safe to take your first dose of sub. So use the Cows, score yourself honestly and accurately and you'll be fine.

    And between the time you completely stop the Methadone and waiting in to induct on the subs you DO NOT want to be taking any of the meds you mention having, or any kind of meds or supplements that would make things more pleasant, or make you feel better. Don't even take an Aspirin, Tylenol, or Motrin, Ibuprofen or Aleve. Take nothing. The entire goal is to be sick enough in wd's so you can safely induct. And you only have to do it once so just know that.

    For some reason I can't add a link right now, but look for Robert's Suboxone Therapy Plan on these forums. Hopefully someone will stop by and provide the link for you. It's the very first post on the Suboxone section of the forums. It explains our sub plan in full detail and we follow that plan closely.

    I too made the switch from years of Methadone to Suboxone. I got in a hurry to induct and put myself into those dreaded PWD's not only once, but twice. Went to the ER I was so sick, but they can't do a thing except let them pass. I spent time on the subs to allow my thoughts of drugs to dissipate, tapered off the subs and now have about 3.5 years clean. You most certainly can do it too. Several other members have followed the same course and will most likely stop by with help and support.

    Find that Suboxone plan and read it over completely. We're here to help and support you all the way through this. BTW: In MY opinion the Suboxone is better than the Zubsolv because of the dose comparison. It's easier to figure and cut smaller doses of Suboxone when you're tapering off that it is the Zubsolv. But I understand it may be a question of funds available.

    Hope this helps. I'll check back later. Take care and relax. It's going to be fine.

    Randy
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    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    https://www.drugs.com/forum/suboxone...tml#post436333

    Here's the link to Robert's Suboxone Therapy Plan. Read it over carefully so you understand it well.

    And the Cows....

    https://www.drugabuse.gov/sites/defa...rawalScale.pdf


    Randy
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-09-2018 at 09:00 AM.
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    FNG2 is offline Member
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    Thanks for the reply's it gives me hope to hear about successful switching from methadone. Unfortunately my insurance only covers Zubsolv, if cash for suboxone strips isn't too bad than I can pay cash. My methadone was $320 a month, way too much for how cheap the medicine is. My Dr did mention COWs and told me not to dose for 72 hours. She didn't mention Clonidine though, if my appointment is 2pm a Clonidine the night before shouldn't interfere, will it?

    Thanks again!

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    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by FNG2 View Post
    Thanks for the reply's it gives me hope to hear about successful switching from methadone. Unfortunately my insurance only covers Zubsolv, if cash for suboxone strips isn't too bad than I can pay cash. My methadone was $320 a month, way too much for how cheap the medicine is. My Dr did mention COWs and told me not to dose for 72 hours. She didn't mention Clonidine though, if my appointment is 2pm a Clonidine the night before shouldn't interfere, will it?

    Thanks again!


    Please understand that the overwhelming majority of these Suboxone doctors have no clue how to prescribe subs, or how they are intended to be taken, how they work. Some are finally getting educated, but most just don't get it because they've never taken this drug. All they have to do is take an 8 hour usually online class and that's it, they are then given a special DEA number and allowed to prescribe the subs. Then Big Pharma Reps come in and instruct these doctors to prescribe huge amounts to unsuspecting patients and attempt to keep them on the sub for years, and in many cases the rest of the patients life. It's the absolutely truth. The information you'll receive from this forum is from people that have actually inducted and tapered off Suboxone/Zubsolv and know fully well how it is to be on this dry, and what it takes to get off.

    It's great your doctor knows what the Cows is, but him/her telling you to wait 72 hours is the worst advice they could give. Do they really care if you go into precipitated wd's? Probably not. They'll just tell you to let it pass, or to take more sub and that's the absolutely WORST thing you could do if PWD's do happen. If you're switching to subs from regular opiates such as Oxy or Vicodin then MAYBE waiting 72 hours would be long enough. But you're switching from Methadone and that's the most difficult drug to switch from you could ever get due to the strength and long half life of the Methadone. For that reason the Cows becomes your best friend and "TIME" doesn't matter one bit. Yes, it's possible you could be ready in 72 hours, but you also may not be. Why take the chance?

    And taking the Clonidine WILL interfere with your Cows score. Anything that makes you "feel better" will hurt your scoring on the Cows and make you suffer longer than necessary. For example lets say you're at a score of 14 on the Cows and take a Clonidine. You'll immediately feel better, but your Cows score will most likely drop to a lower number and you'll have to wait longer in wd's before you can safely induct. I promise you I'm right about this.

    If you follow the plan I've given you you'll have the most positive of sub experiences. The induction is the most critical part to this. Once you're ready to take the Suboxone or Zubsolv begin your induction by taking small doses and wait a full hour to give it plenty of time to work. Coming from Methadone I would begin by taking a 1-2mg dose. After you've waited an hour you'll probably require more so I would suggest you take another 1mg dose and again wait an hour. After that start taking either .25mg or maybe .5mg doses until you're stable with little or no wd's. The goal is to be on the LOWEST effective dose, not the highest. Sub is different than any other opiate in that less is more, meaning the less you take the better you'll feel. Just follow the plan.

    Randy
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    FNG2 is offline Member
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    I appreciate your help, I know just by reading your words that there is vast knowledge and concern in them. I will not take Clonidine, or any other sort of drug that may mask the symptoms of WD. I guess I figured since they are non narcotic they would be safe to take. I don't live near a hospital, so PWD's would not be in my best interest, even though it sounds like they don't really do much for anyone who is in PWD's. The fear of PWD's is bigger than the fear of the WD I will soon be in.

    The Induction process, I sort of figured this would take place at the Dr office, but my appointment is at 2pm. The way I read Robert's Suboxone Therapy Plan is the Induction will take many hours. Perhaps they just see someone in WD give them a pill and a script and send them to the pharmacy. I am one who likes to be prepared, I hate going into things blind, and to me the Dr isnt very forthcoming about the process. If I am given a full pill, once home I would hope we can adjust to follow Robert's Suboxone Therapy Plan.

    Also, PWD's. Why dose this occur? Before I committed 100% to methadone I was able to do OXY or even IV some H and it did not send me into WD, it just took more to feel anything. What I have read is the buprenorphine kicks the methadone off of the receptors, but if the receptors are replaced with buprenorphine, why does it cause PWD's? I agree taking more to cover PWD's would be a bad thing to do, as getting stable at a lower dose will make taper that much easier. My hope is to be off buprenorphine within 3 months or so, before summer kicks in.

    I had something else I wanted too ask but have lost my train of thought. I'm sure it will come back around, getting old sucks!
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-10-2018 at 04:51 AM. Reason: spelling

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    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by FNG2 View Post
    I appreciate your help, I know just by reading your words that there is vast knowledge and concern in them. I will not take Clonidine, or any other sort of drug that may mask the symptoms of WD. I guess I figured since they are non narcotic they would be safe to take. I don't live near a hospital, so PWD's would not be in my best interest, even though it sounds like they don't really do much for anyone who is in PWD's. The fear of PWD's is bigger than the fear of the WD I will soon be in.

    The Induction process, I sort of figured this would take place at the Dr office, but my appointment is at 2pm. The way I read Robert's Suboxone Therapy Plan is the Induction will take many hours. Perhaps they just see someone in WD give them a pill and a script and send them to the pharmacy. I am one who likes to be prepared, I hate going into things blind, and to me the Dr isnt very forthcoming about the process. If I am given a full pill, once home I would hope we can adjust to follow Robert's Suboxone Therapy Plan.

    Also, PWD's. Why dose this occur? Before I committed 100% to methadone I was able to do OXY or even IV some H and it did not send me into WD, it just took more to feel anything. What I have read is the buprenorphine kicks the methadone off of the receptors, but if the receptors are replaced with buprenorphine, why does it cause PWD's? I agree taking more to cover PWD's would be a bad thing to do, as getting stable at a lower dose will make taper that much easier. My hope is to be off buprenorphine within 3 months or so, before summer kicks in.

    I had something else I wanted too ask but have lost my train of thought. I'm sure it will come back around, getting old sucks!


    Good Day to You!

    The induction process can take between a couple hours and a couple days depending on the person and the circumstances. Yes, that's a very wide margin, but HOW a person performs the induction is what determines the length of time it may take until someone becomes completely stable. Let me explain.

    If you follow the plan 100% and go as long as you possibly can between the time you stop taking the Methadone and when the time is right to begin the induction, you'll not only feel better very quickly, but it will usually take less sub to make you stable. If you cheat the process you make the very real risk of PWD's, and you will have a much more difficult time with the induction.

    But on occasion even if you do all the right things the induction process can sometimes take a few hours to a couple days to stabilize the patient. It is what it is and extremely difficult to predict from one person to the next. Metabolism comes into play, as does physical condition, fluid intake, and other factors.

    A lot of these doctors want to induct patients in the office and that's fine. Problem is MOST of them want to give way too much Suboxone/Zubsolv and the patient starts out in the hole. Ask your doctor if it's ok to induct at home. Tell them you don't want to take a chance driving on the sub until you know how it makes you feel/react. Just maybe they will give you the script and send you on you way? It's worth a try. If not just do as the doctor says, take whatever amount he/she suggests and get out of there. Come right back here and let us know how it went. We can quickly get you on the right track. So don't worry about that part too much.

    How do Precipitated Withdrawals (PWD's) occur?

    The way it works is: When an antagonist (or partial antagonist, such as buprenorphine) is administered to a patient dependent on full agonist opioids. Due to Buprenorphine’s high affinity but low activity at the mu opiod receptor, the partial antagonist removes agonist opioids from the mu receptors, without activating the receptor to an equivalent degree, resulting in a net decrease in agonist effect, thus precipitating a withdrawal syndrome, PWD's.

    Going to the ER won't help as I found out. Can't do a thing except let them pass which takes varying amounts of time. You're educating yourself and that will most definitely help you through this. You are going to do fine.

    Randy
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    FNG2 is offline Member
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    Good Morning!

    Before finding this forum I had made a thread at another forum type place, in the Suboxone subsection. There are a couple people who claim the me being at 30mg methadone and switching is not going to work. The claim is buprenorphine's ceiling is equivalent to 30mg methadone, meaning I will still be in WD even after induction. I am not sure the science behind the claim, perhaps it is the 30mg methadone after X days is equal to 50mg methadone in ones body due to half-life. Being that buprenorphine ceiling is 30mg methadone, it will take some days to reach the level of the methadones half-life? I didn't buy into this, as Ive always heard a switch can be made at 35mg. When I originally contacted this Dr I told them I was at 50mg, he didn't mention the need to drop any lower. With all I've read, I went ahead and dropped to 30mg and didn't feel a thing until I went from 32.5 to 30. Too much too fast I suppose.

    Anyway, I do this on the 17th, and will be returning to work on the following tuesday, the 23rd. I would hope I am in a somewhat stable state by then. My job is very demanding in the physical sense, I work for the phone company.

    This may be a dumb question, but will the WD be powerful enough to make me take methadone instead of suffering through to reach my induction appointment? I've honestly never been in a full on WD before, the closest I have come is when I began having massive anxiety and blamed methadone so I dropped from 110mg to 80mg overnight. I was pretty bad for 2 weeks or so, worse part is I had to work during this time. When I moved, then stopped, my body felt like it was still moving. Strangest feeling I have ever had! Of course I didn't sleep much, had no desire to eat, and when the anxiety came back I was pissed. I found out later that methadone had killed my HPA Axis, depleting my Testosterone level down to 101. I went on HRT, but my Adrenals are still trashed, I suppose they will remain trashed until I am off all opiates. If this did not happen to me I don't think I would even have any desire to stop methadone.

    Sunday will be my last dose, around 2am is when I wake up, not by choice but my circadian rhythm is out of wack, I blame Adrenals and that points too methadone. This will put around 84 hours between my last dose and my possible first dose of buprenorphine. I can only pray this will be enough time. Getting closer!
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-11-2018 at 04:26 AM. Reason: fix a filtered word

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    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by FNG2 View Post
    Good Morning!

    Before finding this forum I had made a thread at another forum type place, in the Suboxone subsection. There are a couple people who claim the me being at 30mg methadone and switching is not going to work. The claim is buprenorphine's ceiling is equivalent to 30mg methadone, meaning I will still be in WD even after induction. I am not sure the science behind the claim, perhaps it is the 30mg methadone after X days is equal to 50mg methadone in ones body due to half-life. Being that buprenorphine ceiling is 30mg methadone, it will take some days to reach the level of the methadones half-life? I didn't buy into this, as Ive always heard a switch can be made at 35mg. When I originally contacted this Dr I told them I was at 50mg, he didn't mention the need to drop any lower. With all I've read, I went ahead and dropped to 30mg and didn't feel a thing until I went from 32.5 to 30. Too much too fast I suppose.

    Anyway, I do this on the 17th, and will be returning to work on the following tuesday, the 23rd. I would hope I am in a somewhat stable state by then. My job is very demanding in the physical sense, I work for the phone company.

    This may be a dumb question, but will the WD be powerful enough to make me take methadone instead of suffering through to reach my induction appointment? I've honestly never been in a full on WD before, the closest I have come is when I began having massive anxiety and blamed methadone so I dropped from 110mg to 80mg overnight. I was pretty bad for 2 weeks or so, worse part is I had to work during this time. When I moved, then stopped, my body felt like it was still moving. Strangest feeling I have ever had! Of course I didn't sleep much, had no desire to eat, and when the anxiety came back I was pissed. I found out later that methadone had killed my HPA Axis, depleting my Testosterone level down to 101. I went on HRT, but my Adrenals are still trashed, I suppose they will remain trashed until I am off all opiates. If this did not happen to me I don't think I would even have any desire to stop methadone.

    Sunday will be my last dose, around 2am is when I wake up, not by choice but my circadian rhythm is out of wack, I blame Adrenals and that points too methadone. This will put around 84 hours between my last dose and my possible first dose of buprenorphine. I can only pray this will be enough time. Getting closer!
    Hey -

    I assure you that you'll be fine switching to Suboxone/Zubsolv from 30mgs of Methadone. You can technically make the switch from ANY dose of Methadone. We had one member I can think of right now that made the successful switch from over 200mgs of Methadone. Yes, you read that right. She had a very positive sub experience, tapered from the subs eventually, and had years of clean time when she stopped posting. Is it possible you may still be in Methadone wd's after the induction, yes, it's possible with the sub just covering it up because it's so strong. Doesn't mean you'll feel bad by any means.

    I'm going to again tell you that the Cows is IMPERATIVE to a successful sub induction, especially coming from Methadone. I eventually lowered my Methadone dose down to 10mgs before making the switch to Suboxone. It took me nearly 90 hours in wd's before I hit a 26 on the Cows. But I got in a hurry the first 2 times I tried to switch and put myself into PWD's as I mentioned earlier. I promise you want no part of that experience.

    So you haven't ever been in full on wd's before? Has to be a first, but that's ok. I'm going to give you the cold hard facts and pull no punches. Ok? I'm sure you want the truth and I'll ALWAYS tell you the honest truth. When you're in wd's from the Methadone and waiting to induct on the subs you'll be absolutely miserable. You'll be very sick, you'll feel nauseous, you'll feel hot and cold sweats, you'll basically feel like climbing the walls. It's a horrible experience. But it's also a NECESSARY experience to get you on the right track. And the good news is you only have to do this ONCE if you do it RIGHT the first time.

    Yes, you may feel like taking some Methadone to east the symptoms. Your head will mess with you and try it's best to make you give up and try another day. But the same thing will happen every time until you are determined to do this and get it over with. I can't tell it to you any plainer than this. For these reasons it's best you get rid of all the Methadone you have so you won't be tempted to take any during this very important time.

    You plan on having 84 hours under your belt before you possibly dose on the subs. Might be enough time, might not be so use that Cows. Use that Cows and score a honest 26 or higher. Did I say use the Cows?

    Randy
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    Good Morning!

    Thank you again for the sound words. Failure is not a option in my case. The nearest methadone clinic is 45 minutes away from me and at this point I have been discharged, meaning I would have to start over from ground zero, daily trips to the clinic. I've been on once a month for years now, pretty sure this is also one of the enablers I have dealt with for so long. Its not that much of a hassle to drive once per month, that's the attic in me talking.

    Cows, I will most certainly use and wait for a 26+ score, I have my wife here to help and she will also be at the induction appointment. I have already told her not to feel sorry for me and give in when scoring me on the Cows sheet. Being that I dose around 3am every morning, on clinic days I start what I call mild WDs while awaiting the clinic to open. It very well may be mental but I'll get hot flashes, runny nose, and just feel blah until 30 minutes or so after I dose, who knows.

    Last question...PWDs, when you had went into PWDs you mention it took 90 hours to hit a 26 on Cows. Each time that you were sent into PWDs did the clock start over, or did PWDs subside and you kept waiting and scoring on Cows until you hit the 26, a total of 90 hours or was it 90 hours after the second time of PWDs?

    I truly appreciate you taking time from your day to help me and everyone here, Thank You.
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    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by FNG2 View Post
    Good Morning!

    Thank you again for the sound words. Failure is not a option in my case. The nearest methadone clinic is 45 minutes away from me and at this point I have been discharged, meaning I would have to start over from ground zero, daily trips to the clinic. I've been on once a month for years now, pretty sure this is also one of the enablers I have dealt with for so long. Its not that much of a hassle to drive once per month, that's the attic in me talking.

    Cows, I will most certainly use and wait for a 26+ score, I have my wife here to help and she will also be at the induction appointment. I have already told her not to feel sorry for me and give in when scoring me on the Cows sheet. Being that I dose around 3am every morning, on clinic days I start what I call mild WDs while awaiting the clinic to open. It very well may be mental but I'll get hot flashes, runny nose, and just feel blah until 30 minutes or so after I dose, who knows.

    Last question...PWDs, when you had went into PWDs you mention it took 90 hours to hit a 26 on Cows. Each time that you were sent into PWDs did the clock start over, or did PWDs subside and you kept waiting and scoring on Cows until you hit the 26, a total of 90 hours or was it 90 hours after the second time of PWDs?

    I truly appreciate you taking time from your day to help me and everyone here, Thank You.

    Hi -

    It's great you'll have your wife on board to help with things. Having her score you on the Cows will be a great benefit for you. What happens lots of times in you're in wd's waiting to induct and sometimes give yourself a higher score than you deserve. Not saying you will, but it happens. Your wife will be a welcome addition to this part.

    Here's what happened when I was attempting to switch from Methadone to Suboxone....

    I was well over 200mgs daily on the mdone. I tapered it down to around 30mgs. I waited about 24-36 hours after I completely stopped the mdone and took my first dose of sub. I didn't use the Cows because I was in a big hurry to induct. I paid a very stiff price by going into PWD's. Ok, so I didn't learn my lesson and did the exact same thing again. I was still at 30mgs of mdone and this time waited about 36-42 hours or something like that and took some sub again. Yep, right into PWD's....again. So sick I wanted to die. As you know I went to the ER both times and they just sent me home.

    Then I got educated. Read every bit of information I could find on the process. Read Robert325's nearly 16,000 posts he had accumulated. This guy knew subs better than anyone in my opinion. Anyway, I lowered my methadone down to 10mgs (I wasn't taking any chances this third time), used the Cows, got to a score of at least 26, think I was actually at a 28-30, then safely inducted. This last time was when it took nearly 90 hours in wd's before I hit he 26 score.

    Now it may not take you that long before you hit the target score. Everyone's different, but mdone is a very tough drug to switch from because of it's long half life. We see people all the time say they are "only" going to wait 24 or 36 house then are their sub. Big, big mistake in most cases because they are taking a very big chance. I know you won't do that.

    Best advice I can give you is to try and be mentally prepared for feeling horrible for a while before the induction. Everyone goes through it and it truly sucks. But it only needs to be done one time and that's it. Also during the time you're waiting to score if you can get out of the house that will help take your mind off how you're feeling, if only for a little while. It helps.

    Randy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy35 View Post
    Hi -

    It's great you'll have your wife on board to help with things. Having her score you on the Cows will be a great benefit for you. What happens lots of times in you're in wd's waiting to induct and sometimes give yourself a higher score than you deserve. Not saying you will, but it happens. Your wife will be a welcome addition to this part.

    Here's what happened when I was attempting to switch from Methadone to Suboxone....

    I was well over 200mgs daily on the mdone. I tapered it down to around 30mgs. I waited about 24-36 hours after I completely stopped the mdone and took my first dose of sub. I didn't use the Cows because I was in a big hurry to induct. I paid a very stiff price by going into PWD's. Ok, so I didn't learn my lesson and did the exact same thing again. I was still at 30mgs of mdone and this time waited about 36-42 hours or something like that and took some sub again. Yep, right into PWD's....again. So sick I wanted to die. As you know I went to the ER both times and they just sent me home.

    Then I got educated. Read every bit of information I could find on the process. Read Robert325's nearly 16,000 posts he had accumulated. This guy knew subs better than anyone in my opinion. Anyway, I lowered my methadone down to 10mgs (I wasn't taking any chances this third time), used the Cows, got to a score of at least 26, think I was actually at a 28-30, then safely inducted. This last time was when it took nearly 90 hours in wd's before I hit he 26 score.

    Now it may not take you that long before you hit the target score. Everyone's different, but mdone is a very tough drug to switch from because of it's long half life. We see people all the time say they are "only" going to wait 24 or 36 house then are their sub. Big, big mistake in most cases because they are taking a very big chance. I know you won't do that.

    Best advice I can give you is to try and be mentally prepared for feeling horrible for a while before the induction. Everyone goes through it and it truly sucks. But it only needs to be done one time and that's it. Also during the time you're waiting to score if you can get out of the house that will help take your mind off how you're feeling, if only for a little while. It helps.

    Randy

    Thank you sharing that with me, as scared as I am of the WDs I surely wont be trying to take subs any sooner than I should. I did some reading through old threads here, seen many people taking subs way too early over and over again. I just took my last dose, it is 2:30am here and my appointment is 84 hours away from right now. I am thinking I will need the extra hours as my drop from 50 to 30 was rather quick like. Last week the last 5mg had me feeling a little blah while at work. That has sense passed though, so I would say I have stabilized at 30mg now. I am still torn on the bottle of waffers I have saved up, throw them out, or keep them as a safety net. Lord knows they need to be gone, destroyed, out of my house, but the rational me says "what if". I wish I had the money to be put too sleep, then woken to take my subs, or even to fly down south and under ibogaine treatment. Unfortunately this is not a option, so I will need to put up and shut up and get on with my life! Mdone has saved me, and killed"me" at the same time. Its the same story you have all read over and over. Mdone got me off the streets to Mdone has me chained to my house, I dont even go outside anymore. I hate who I have become, but am working hard to reverse all the side effects I have from mdone. 1 year ago I was severely depressed, paranoid, and in constant anxiety. Today I still retain mild depression, but my paranoia has all but vanished and my anxiety as well. I feel getting off mdone will be the final key to set me free again. I know subs are another opiate replacement, but I feel like subs are crutches, while mdone is a wheelchair. I just want to say "Thank You again", you guys here at Drugs Forum have given me the straight truth and knowledge I needed to hear. I will check in during my 84 hour wait, not sure how often, or how readable the posts will be though. lol

    Thanks!

  13. #13
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hello Fg, we all have been there scared. I'm here to tell you if you really want this you to can do this. Withdrawals are just that they will come and go just like having a really bad flu. Take each day as it comes and worry about tomorrow Tomorrow. Life free from those chains is amazing my friend. Keep reading and posting we are all here to support you..
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    Hello, can someone answer me a few things please.

    I am about 30 hours since last dose of 30mg methadone. I am getting light hot flashes already, these come and go, hot one minute and cold the next. I also and having the same with runny nose, sniffles. The one thing I am doing but do not understand I have to urinate every hour. I am also watching TV and will begin to cry, it isnt a sobbing cry, but a steady flow of tears. Then suddenly I will stop, but will start again for no reason, is this normal?

    thanks
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  15. #15
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Everything you are feeling and going through is all normal part of the process..
    Hang in there...ohhh Congratulations....
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lvg nghtmare View Post
    Everything you are feeling and going through is all normal part of the process..
    Hang in there...ohhh Congratulations....
    Thank you.
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  17. #17
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Stay hydrated get up get moving I promise it will help.. hide the clocks..did I say drink plenty of fluids. Keep reading and posting here to support you..
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  18. #18
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    This is the time to have a funeral for those wafers you have just in case! Flush em believe me get rid of everything. It's just to tempting methadone is a beast. You can do this.. willpower my friend...
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lvg nghtmare View Post
    This is the time to have a funeral for those wafers you have just in case! Flush em believe me get rid of everything. It's just to tempting methadone is a beast. You can do this.. willpower my friend...
    I have given them to my mom, also the key that locks my gun from firing, just in case. I've read some become severely depressed, and other angry. I feel better right now than I did a few hours ago. Its strange how it comes and goes. I have with me a bunch of supplements, as in vitamins and minerals, melatonine to help induce sleep at night. I cant wait for the appointment. In fact I just hung up with the Dr front desk. She just called me for insurance info and stated there is a opening for this afternoon. I told her while I would love to go, I dont believe I am far enough in WDs to go. I did mention is something opens up earlier for the Wednesday to please call.

    I asked her about my insurance only covering zubsolv and she really didnt have anything she could tell me. This is what is keeping me from having them waffers flushed. If worse came to worse, and I had to cash pay for subs, what am I looking at for the dose of 12 to 16mg if it takes that much? I do believe there is a Generic, but not a Generic of the sub strips.

  20. #20
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    Hey FNG. My insurance wouldn't cover suboxone. But I know that there are a bunch of those discount Rx cards. I'm sure there are some at your doctors office. There was one specifically for suboxone I remember. After my pharmacy applied it I believe the 8/2 mg strips ended up costing about $6.16 a strip or so. Just a ballpark. I used a rite aid. Some might be a little more or less expensive.

    Just wanted to say congratulations. I've been following your story but haven't posted. You've been getting amazing advice from lvg and Randy.

    You're doing a great job and are well informed and prepared for this.
    Keep your head up!! It only gets better.
    Beef
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  21. #21
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Yup good job on getting rid of the drugs. I'm glad you are following Randy's advice you don't want to be sick. Just remember Everything you are going through will Pass I promise you... just hang in keep doing what you are doing. Post here we will all support you through this garbage..
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-15-2018 at 01:06 PM.
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    Thanks for the support!

    I am about to eat dinner, I have been able to eat all 3 meals today, breakfast was the most difficult. Had the wife do the COWs, I am only at a 8, still mild according to the sheet. I am sure this will change rapidly come tomorrow. By then I will have gone to far to turn around, I feel I will do this now, as where this morning I was a little worried. In 3 hours I will begin lay down for bed, my body feels tired, but not my mind, I hope I get a little sleep.
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  23. #23
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    You got this your stronger than that little pill.. like a bad flu..you will survive I promise.. drink plenty of water!! Here to support you my friend..
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    Good morning!

    I am WIDE AWAKE since midnight, I did manage 3.5 hours sleep last night though. I am having hot flashes, runny nose, unable to lay down even though I feel tired. I am not crying anymore, nor am I having to urinate every hour like yesterday. My whole body is sore, I feel weak, but I am not at a state of "horrible". I am beginning to wonder how much worse I will be, I am at 48 hours since my last dose of 30mg now. In 24 more hours the mdone should nearly be completely out of my system. I am on HRT (hormone replacement therapy) for a depleted Testosterone level due to mdone. Currently I have T levels of a 18 year old, and it feels great! I wonder how this plays a roll in my detox, as Testosterone is known to "heal" the body. Perhaps I am just not in a full WD state, and more time will bring the more severe WDs. I do not have to return to work until next Tuesday, 9 days from taking my last dose of mdone. What are the chances of riding this out, 100% cold turkey? I know mdone recovery is slow, but I already have mild depression (was severe before getting on HRT) and I am also suffering from mild anhedonia. This is also due too mdone, as I used to enjoy doing things, but the last 5 years I have been chained to my home. Anyway, just me rambling as I dont know what else to do. I pace the living room to the kitchen, look outside, and spin another lap. I want to add, last night when goofing around with the wife, when laughing it felt real, I havent felt anything real in a long time. If I do end up on subs (99.9% chance that I will) I know that I want to come off them soon. I want to return to the me I left behind long ago, Ive spent 10 years sorting out my demons. I know why i turned to drugs, and I need to deal with this but cant when numb under the meds. Ill check back in later, I hope after my coffee I can get some more sleep!

  25. #25
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey everything you are feeling and going through is normal. Believe me I've been there. It takes a long time for the body to rid all the toxins we put in. I did it coldturkey so yes it's possible you have to really want this Methadone is a beast. Everyone is different I wouldn't wait for it to get worse it may not. Just keep racking up those clean days. Stay active stay hydrated. I had to change my diet no caffeine,sugars red meat Grrr Anything good but it helped me alot still does. All the feelings and Emotions coming back it's crazy how much we numbed on the garbage. I could see clearer hear everything and yes sex back in full force. It just keeps getting better the more clean days you have. Im not sure of the hrt hopefully it's to your advantage ya know. Keep it up here to support you..
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lvg nghtmare View Post
    Hey everything you are feeling and going through is normal. Believe me I've been there. It takes a long time for the body to rid all the toxins we put in. I did it coldturkey so yes it's possible you have to really want this Methadone is a beast. Everyone is different I wouldn't wait for it to get worse it may not. Just keep racking up those clean days. Stay active stay hydrated. I had to change my diet no caffeine,sugars red meat Grrr Anything good but it helped me alot still does. All the feelings and Emotions coming back it's crazy how much we numbed on the garbage. I could see clearer hear everything and yes sex back in full force. It just keeps getting better the more clean days you have. Im not sure of the hrt hopefully it's to your advantage ya know. Keep it up here to support you..
    Thanks for the good words. At the time I work my last post I felt pretty good. Since then I am back to urinating like crazy, small episodes of the crying again. The one thing if the COWs I am not seeing at all is Pupils. Mine are the same as my wifes are when standing in the same mirror. I assume everyone will get dialated pupils and mine are just yet to come. Only feel asleep for 20 minutes since last post, my body is dead but my mind is wide open. I have 30 hours until my appointment.
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    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey reread the post from Randy believe me you want to score a 26 you were 8 yesterday like Randy said you will be sick. Go back over his post read Randy's thread...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lvg nghtmare View Post
    Hey reread the post from Randy believe me you want to score a 26 you were 8 yesterday like Randy said you will be sick. Go back over his post read Randy's thread...


    I understand, dont want to induct unless ready. Where I am confused, is some of these things on COWs happen, but the stop, then start again a little later. I am getting worried I wont hit the 26 by the time my appointment it here, 24 hours exactly. At this point I will be 84 hours since last dose. I have noticed my legs, ankles, and knees hurt a lot more, but I have spun a lot of laps in my home. Example, last time we looked at COWs I hit a 10, but that was going easy on the points.

    Getting slightly worried. Thanks.
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    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Me to why I said make sure you do it Right you definitely don't want to be sick. If your score is not 26 I'd tell them to reschedule a few days later. You can do this. You also will not know your True pain level til you have some clean time down. It's amazing to me how one ibprophen works for me today. You got this...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lvg nghtmare View Post
    Me to why I said make sure you do it Right you definitely don't want to be sick. If your score is not 26 I'd tell them to reschedule a few days later. You can do this. You also will not know your True pain level til you have some clean time down. It's amazing to me how one ibprophen works for me today. You got this...
    Pain in my legs, knees, ankles, and lower back is insane right now! Hurts to walk now, and hurts to lay as I am not moving. Can't win for list here. lol

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