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I cannot do it...the pain is too much.
  1. #1
    hatethefire is offline Junior Member
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    Default I cannot do it...the pain is too much.

    Normally I take 100mg Tramadol ER in the morning and 10mg Ambien at night. Sometimes I took the Ambien in 2 x 5mg doses one in evening and one before bed. I was doing this for RSD and Fibro and arthritis. It wasn't perfect but I was at least able to do "nothing" and not want to kill myself.

    I have gotten worse in the last year and wondered if it wasn't related to hyperalgesia from the meds but I just cannot stop. I have tried cold turkey....dose taper...and time taper now.

    I was a few cycles into Robert's time taper adding time between doses....rather than my normal 24 hours I was up to 33 hours between doses but I was going through withdrawal every day between the doses. I have been feeling worse and worse as I stretched the time culminating with waking up this morning soaking wet, with the worst migraine I have had in years, the burning pain I usually have turned up really high and wanting to die it all hurt so bad. If someone would have been home I would have had them take me to the ER but I now how I would have been seen...as a seeker. Plus I know the people who work in the only ER I can go to and it is too embarrassing.

    I caved and took a 10/325 hydrocodone that I had for flares...and an extra dose of Ambien to calm down. It worked to reduce this nightmare after a couple hours but I still feel horrible. I just cannot get off these meds but they are making me feel bad as well. They used to help and somehow my body changed and the drugs turned on me.

    I am in tears right now...no idea what I am going to do. I have so much pain but the drugs to treat it are just as horrible for my body.

    I cannot take this much longer. I don't know what happened to change things from a miserable but surviving status to an every day being horrible status. I moved and had to use new brands of the meds...maybe that was it. But the pain is just too much for me. ANd if its not the pain it's some side effect.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 09-24-2010 at 09:37 PM.

  2. #2
    mspattym is offline New Member
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    I don't know if anyone has responded to your message yet. I am sorry for your pain and frustration. AND I understand it. You will make it ! You can make it ! It just feels the very very worst right now You are probably at the bottom and your body has indeed turned on you - in a good way, recognizing the drugs as toxins. Can you 'fast' from them for a short time and just deal with the pain in natural means for a bit ? then try to start over ? tramadol is nasty stuff and can get toxic if you are not getting rid of it ie: liver, bowel etc. When you 'fast' (even for a day or two) use fish oil and magnesium ("Calm" magnesium powder supplement )
    I know the w/d and the headache pain/cold sweats and alternating nausea, pain, (omg do I know it - with vomiting and dry heaves, hot/cold, freezing chills and then the sweat burns my skin, wow...anyway...) ect... hopefully you will also have bowel movements - cleaning your whole system out. (I have so much love and respect for those going through w/d , it is PAIN and HELL !)
    If you have insurance, a doctor that prescribes legit meds, if you are in pain, in w/d or in need YOU HAVE NO NEED to be embarrassed ! you have a RIGHT and a MEDICAL reason to seek help ! Is your vanity bigger than your pain ? is your reputation more important than your real health ? You can do this and you will make it ! but you have to get over the "I know the ppl at the er"... and the 'drug seeker' fear" (it is too late to try and control what they think of you - legit prescription pain and withdrawal is common . You have the potential to make yourself much sicker if you don't get help ! If you moved... there can be real factors that are effecting your reactions, the area, the stress from moving, the water or the environment .... there are many reasons that moving may be seriously effecting how you are doing. just know you can and will get through this. mixing the tram and the two others probably rocked your liver (take scientifically proven herb 'milk thistle' to help clean your liver and repair it )
    keep believing in something, don't give up ! and remember ALL of the pills you mentioned... can cause symptoms of depression and bring on sadness/anxiety. Take a long hot bath with tea and really meditate/pray ... relax, YOU CAN DO THIS !
    Last edited by Anonymous; 09-25-2010 at 08:00 AM.

  3. #3
    MaisieC is offline Senior Member
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    Hi hatethefire,

    I'm sorry you're having such a miserable time. It sounds like you're having some very nasty tramadol withdrawals.

    My best advice to you right now is to switch off the trams onto hydrocodone--completely--and taper off that in order to assess your true pain level. I've done this myself, and it's way easier to get off the hydrocodone than it is to get off trams. The withdrawals are just less complicated.

    In my experience, tramadol gives you withdrawal symptoms that other opiates do not, including burning sensations, migraines, severe anxiety, and depression. I've had depression coming off other opioids, but nothing like coming off trams.

    If you transition to hydrocodone, you'll be eliminating the SSRI/SNRI effect of the trams, and you can deal with that alone without facing the full spectrum of opiate withdrawal.

    That's my best recommendation, if you're able to do it. It's worked for me, and I know it's worked for some others too.

    I'm not around the boards very much these days, but I'll check back when I can.

    Good luck and take care,
    Maisie

    PS--Please please please don't take ambien to calm down. That's not what it's for, and using it to relieve anxiety can really mess you up. It's much safer to use a little valium. I understand you were desperate, but please do everything you can to avoid doing that again. That way lies madness. Hang in there.

  4. #4
    hatethefire is offline Junior Member
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    How do I change over from Tramadol to Hydrocodone? is there some two way taper to get off the former and into the latter? I only have about 60 10//325 hydros and am not sure if I can get much more without sounding alarm bells. I also have never been able to take more than one of those a day without getting intolerable side effects like non stop itching and constipation. Of course one doesn't last 24 hours so I end up suffering between doses. It seems like one way or another I am going to have to withdraw from the SSRI/SSNRI/GABA part of tramadol even with swtiching to hydros right?

    I don't know why I bother doing this taper with Tramadol because it always ends the same but I got about 60 regular 50mg tramadol from a relative this week since all I have right now are 100ERs...I have lots of those but cannot cut them. I mapped out a taper plan...spent hours cutting pills just right to go down 12.5mg every 5 days from 100 a day to 12.5 a day. Put them in bags labeled with the intent of trying a normal taper again. I guess I feel better trying to organize but it never works.

    For whatever reason the 100mg ERs make me feel horrid and give little benefit anymore. So today I decided to use the 50s and take 2 per day rather than one 100. I feel pretty good 2 hours after taking one 50. But the reason I switched to the ER in the first place is the normal pills went up and down too hard. So I am probably in tramadol bliss right now getting more dose at once than I am used to. What is miserable is I feel better than I have in a long time...more like myself. But I know it's not real and will wear off.

    The docs won't take me seriously because they think it is impossible to be having problems with such low dosing.

    I don't take benzos well (or most meds for that matter) so the Ambien has always been something I can take and have little problem with. I don't take too much of it. I don't get the weird sleep walking or memory loss some people do. But I do feel like I am having daily withdrawal from it as well. It is like my body just changed and what was working well for so long just stopped. I know it works on Gaba which is probably combining with the Tramadol in that regard.

    I just don't know what to do. There isn't any other effective pain treatment for me so being off all meds will probably be just as bad in a different way. It seems like a closed circle of hell.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 09-25-2010 at 01:49 PM.

  5. #5
    MaisieC is offline Senior Member
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    Hi again,

    Hm, I'm not sure what to say. You are very sensitive to meds, and you have my sympathy about the doctors not understanding that. They just don't seem to want to acknowledge that some people respond differently to medications. It's very frustrating.

    Yes, you're right that if you get off tramadol you will be getting off the SSRI/SNRIs. My point was that if you do the transition to hydros, you can deal with the issues one at a time. Get off the anti-depressant completely before you have to deal with the w/d from opioids.

    But if you can't get the hydrocodone, that's not a good solution. Also it sounds like you have intolerable side effects from it, so it's not really an option (I used to get the itching, too, but only at high doses.)

    I don't know what to recommend, honestly. If you were an addict and your objective was to get off pain meds completely, I would encourage you to simply gut out the withdrawal, awful though it is. But you have real pain issues, and I don't have experience with that. My pain was always emotional, not physical.

    I hate to leave you in the lurch, but I think once again that Robert is better equipped to help you. He has a lot of experience with chronic pain (unfortunately). Robert, are you reading this thread? What do you think?

    I understand what you're saying about the benzos and the Ambien, and I know you'll be very careful. The only time in my life I ever hallucinated was from combining tramadol and Ambien. I do use Ambien from time to time, but I treat it with great respect.

    Please take care of yourself and hang in there,
    Maisie

  6. #6
    hatethefire is offline Junior Member
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    But if I could manage it what transition do I use from Tramadol to Hydros? How do I switch and on what schedule?

  7. #7
    MaisieC is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hatethefire View Post
    But if I could manage it what transition do I use from Tramadol to Hydros? How do I switch and on what schedule?
    When I did it, I just did it. I didn't have a formula or schedule. I stopped taking the tramadol and started the hydrocodone, and basically tweaked the dose empirically to keep myself out of withdrawal. From there I tapered the hydrocodone. I wish I could give you more precise guidance, but I just kind of did it by the seat of my pants.

    Good luck and take care!
    Maisie

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