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Problems with subutex after only a few days of methadone.
  1. #1
    JG83 is offline New Member
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    Default Problems with subutex after only a few days of methadone.

    Ok, I am having some semi-serious issues here. For the past 3 years I have been prescribed and taking 2x 8mg generic subutex daily. I recently had an issue where I ran out of my prescribed subutex 3 days before I could refill it. I was able to get my hands on some methadone, so I grabbed 40x 10mg to get me through those 3 days. I basically took 60mg of the methadone twice a day for those three days and 40mg on the morning of the fourth day. Later that fourth day, about 12hrs after taking the 40mg of methadone, I took an 8mg subutex and all seemed fine. Until about an hour later and I felt like was having a panic attack. I became super dizzy and everything seemed to be like a dream to me. I was afraid that I may not be breathing well so I didn't want to go to sleep and never wake up. So I just laid in my bed for a few hours being miserable until I finally just fell asleep. Woke up feeling ok, but not completely normal. I took another 8mg subutex and yet again I had the same symtpoms as the previous night, but not quite as strong. I decided to just sleep it off for a few hours. I woke up later that same day and felt ok, but still not completely normal. I didn't want to take anymore that day, so I waited until today. Today, about 48hrs after that last dose of methadone, I took another 8mg and I felt fine for an hour or so and now I am feeling the same symptoms again. It's like a disconnected feeling and dizziness. I am beginning to wonder if the subutex will ever be the same again.

    Am I just experiencing this because the methadone has such a high half life? Please help me out here, I am not liking this at all. I have to take care of my two young boys this weekend and I definitely don't want to be all out of it while I have them. Thanks for any help!

  2. #2
    JG83 is offline New Member
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    Wow, nobody has any advice to give on this. I have read around quite a bit since posting my post and I get the impression that because methadone has such a long half-life, 48-72 hours, that I'm going to need to either wait until like Sunday afternoon or just take another 8mg subutex tomorrow(Saturday) afternoon and see how it goes. I have been getting the beginning effects of withdrawal this evening, runny nose, minor chills, minor sweats, and that weird head feeling I can't explain. I'm going to just wait it out and see how I feel Saturday afternoon. If I feel like I can make it another 24 hours without taking a sub then I will.

    I'm still willing to hear anyone out who may have some advice on this.

  3. #3
    Kikker is offline Advanced Member
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    Hi JG, just woke up and read this. I will get back to you later in the morning after I wake up, but for right now you need to do exactly as you are thinking....do not take ANYTHING, sub or methadone, and wait it out for a couple days, or however long it takes. Then take ONLY 1 MG of the sub once you are in moderate to severe withdrawals according to the COWS SHEET SCORE of 26 or greater. I will give you the link below for the cows sheet.

    https://www.drugs.com/resources/opio...wal-record.pdf

    Score yourself accuratly as it's no good to fudge on the score. You are really close to putting yourself into precipated withdrawals taking the subs too soon after the methadone it looks like. Wait it out, score yourself, and once you get to that 26 score, then it's safe to begin taking the subutex. And you DO NOT want to begin taking 8 mg doses either....that's waaaay too much! I would suggest you take only 1 mg doses and wait one hour to give it time to work to it's full potential.

    We use a sub plan here written by a member (Robert325) that had years and years of experience. Here's that link also....

    https://www.drugs.com/forum/featured...apy-50887.html

    This will give you an idea of what has to happen. It's just as I said, need to wait and take NOTHING, get to that 26 score, and then begin taking 1 mg doses until stable, waiting an hour between doses. Bet you will get stable far under the 8 mg you were taking. Probably only take 2-4 mg or so is all.

    Got to get some sleep, but I will be here for you. Hope this helps and I'll talk to you later. Hang in there ok, it's gonna be ok.

    Kikker
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  4. #4
    JG83 is offline New Member
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    Thanks kikker, for the response!! I started feeling some withdrawal last night but today I just woke up and I'm feeling better for some reason. I'm going to put your advice into practice and wait till I'm really not feeling well. I will do as you said and take as close to 1mg as possible. It will be hard though, because I have the new generic subutex which are extremely small, but i am sure I can manage to get close to 1mg.

    I just find it so weird that this is taking so long. I've used methadone so many times way back in the past years and I don't ever recall having any problems switching to subutex afterward. Maybe I took way too much methadone this time or something. Anyway, I do greatly appreciate your advice and will be checking back every so often. Thanks!!!

  5. #5
    Kikker is offline Advanced Member
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    The methadone has a very long half life (up to 72 hours) just like the sub does so it may take a couple days or more before you are able to get into the moderate/severe withdrawals it takes to score a 26 that is needed on that cows sheet before taking that first dose of sub.

    And don't take ANYTHING that makes you "feel better" or you just prolong the time. Can't take tylenol, motrin, any kind of benzo, NOTHING that would make you feel even the slightest bit better. Have to get sick before you can feel better in other words.

    But you only have to do this once so might as well do it right the first time. That methadone is going to stick around in your system for a while so you have to dig in and wait it out, get to that 26 score on te cows, and then begin taking 1 mg doses of sub. Your goal is to take the absi=olute lowest dose possible that gets you out of the withdrawals and feeling normal. Don't want to take one tiny bit more than that. That's the goal you need to set for yourself. I'll check on you later and make sure you post as much as possible relaying how you feel as you get ready to take the sub.

    Kikker

  6. #6
    JG83 is offline New Member
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    So because I took 8mg of subutex each day for the last 3 days, does that mean that I will now be waiting even longer to enter withdrawal. I am just trying to get a time frame as I have to return to work tomorrow and that's the last place I want to be having withdrawals. But I suppose if that's what it's going to take to get me out of this mess, then I will do it. I can't believe I did this. I got that methadone earlier this week to make up for not having subutex. And now that I have my subutex I have to end up going through a few days of >>>> anyways. I wish I would of just held out those three days instead of taking methadone.

    Anyhow, I am feeling somewhat ok today. I have been awake for about 2 hours now and I have had a few random sweating episodes, even with the fan and A/C blowing on me. Other than that, I am not feeling much withdrawal. I'll post again later this afternoon or evening with an update on my condition. I'm honestly hoping I hit at least moderate withdrawal today. Thanks again for your help.

  7. #7
    Kikker is offline Advanced Member
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    Taking the subutex is covering up the methadone detox. The sub is THAT strong on your receptors. You need to STOP taking anything like I said and let withdrawals begin and last as long as they take to become quite severe. It could take several days because of the amount of subs you have taken. Have to let it leave your system, and with the half life being so long, it's gonna take a while. You probably do not need anywhere near 8 mg of subutex, and I'm quite sure can get by with lots less than that. So yes, your most likely going to be having withdrawals while at work, but again you only have to do this one time so make sure you do it right the first time. Don't take ANYTHING and get thru the withdrawals as best you can. Once you get to that 26 score, which may take several days because of the huge amount of subutex taken, then it's ok to begin taking the subs in 1 mg doses.

    Yes, you should not have taken the methadone to "get by" and that is going to be the problem here. Can't take it back now of course.

    I will not take any kind of chance of putting you into precipated withdrawals. I'm not going to do that. You will be sicker than you ever have in your entire life i promise and I want no part of that. Taking subutex and methadone so close together is just asking for that to happen. Please be careful.

    Kikker

  8. #8
    JG83 is offline New Member
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    Ok, it's about 10pm here where I live. I have not taken any subutex today at all. I am feeling some withdrawal coming and going, but nothing consistent yet. I know I am probably hoping for a little too much, but I am hoping that I am in pretty serious withdrawal when I wake up in the morning so I can at least start to take the sub in 1mg increments while I am at work. But then again, that is somewhat wishful thinking. Anyhow, I will keep you up to speed on things as they happen. Gnight!!

  9. #9
    JG83 is offline New Member
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    OK, it's two days after my last post. Yesterday, I felt somewhat normal but decided to just push through my work day without taking anything. I got through it and felt reasonably fine at the end of the day. To be honest though, I was a little frustrated that I wasn't feeling any withdrawal yet. I was actually hoping that the next day(today), I would be in full withdrawal by the time I woke up. I had no work and didn't have any kids to take care of so I slept in until about 1:30pm. I woke up feeling extremely anxious and the thought and sight of food made me want to ralph. I was also experiencing frequent hot and cold flashes as well as goose bumps from hell, the kind that hurt. I had a runny nose and my eyes were watering. Now, I have experienced these symptoms probably 100 different times back in my junkie days so I knew I was ready. I didn't even bother with the COWS sheet, I know my body and I know I was in at least moderate withdrawal. I started off at 2:30pm by taking 2mg. Trying to break these tiny ass pills down any further would make it too difficult to have an accurate size. So like I said, i took 2mg or a quarter of the tablet. I sat around till 3:00pm and decided to get up and try start some laundry. While I was doing that, I noticed that I wasn't getting that dizzy feeling anymore and I was starting to feel a little bit better. Around 3:15 I noticed that trademark glow feeling starting to overtake my body. Boy was that welcomed feeling. I took another 2mg at 3:30 and it seems that I am feeling somewhat stabilized at that amount. I am still feeling some mild physical withdrawal, just some minor joint pain and such, but mostly feel better.

    I don't see any point in taking more than 4mg at the time. I will probably wait until tomorrow morning to take any more, and will more than likely just go ahead and take 4mg in one shot. Thanks to you Kikker for the advice, I am glad that I listened to you and that you had sound advice for me. You surely have saved me a lot of time and discomfort.
    Judy3755 likes this.

  10. #10
    Kikker is offline Advanced Member
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    Hello JG, happy it has all worked out for you to this point. Very happy to hear you know your body so well to take the subs without the use of the cows score. Have to admit it really frightens me when someone doesn't use it, but I completely understand you reasoning why you went ahead without it. No problem, and happy your doing ok.

    Now what you want to do is exactly as you said, take 4 mg tomorrow morning, or at a time that works best for YOU JG. Usually mid-morning is best because if the sub is taken too late in the afternoon, it keeps many people awake. So a morning to mid-morning time usually works best for most.

    I would sugggest you remain at the 4 my for 4 days keeping track of how you feel at all times. You have to always remember that your getting off very strong drugs and you should feel a little discomfort in the way of minor symptoms at times. It's not suppose to be real easy or a cakewalk thru this ok. If you fight thru those mild symptoms they WILL pass on their own most every time.

    At the end of those 4 days if you feel good, and you are stable, then I would begin following the sub therapy plan that I gave you the link to. Reduce at the rate of 25% which would make your next dose reduction a 3 mg dose of sub. Stay there for 4 days and if stable and feeling good then go ahead and reduce again. Keep following this plan until you get down to a dose of .25 mg. From there you can either jump and be done with it, taper lower, or use the day-skipping process where you dose and then skip 1, 2, 3, and 4 days and then finished. I really like the day-skipping, but it's totally up to you how you want to finish the taper.

    Any questions just ask ok. Someone is always here, and I plan on being around as much as possible. Be happy to help you get clean and be another in a long line of successful members that have gotten clean using this process. Take care of yourself and post often updating us with your progress. Makes a huge difference if you do, and you can also use this thread of yours as a journal. Later my friend, and best wishes.

    Kikker

  11. #11
    d1979 is offline New Member
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    Thumbs up @ JG83, here you go :)

    I may need to re-read you post but i just had to respond bc that is exactly what I kept asking when I went through the Same Exact thing..only i ran out of methadone, and immediatly got on subutex thinking it would be easy breezey.Nope. I was like a zombie, and hated it..But the good News is Yes the other that you are now taking..i think you said methadone now, will start to give you that euphoria you are asking about..it just takes about 1 solid week, for the first strong opioid to detach from your receptor and let the other attach, its weird but beleive me I was the exact same, wondering is it going to feel weird forever??!! Promise, your good, a couple more days 1-2 prob and you will feel good again)
    Last edited by Anonymous; 11-07-2013 at 08:34 AM.

  12. #12
    medismo is offline New Member
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    I have not taken any subutex today at all. I am feeling some withdrawal coming and going, but nothing consistent yet. I know I am probably hoping for a little too much, but I am hoping that I am in pretty serious withdrawal when I wake up in the morning so I can at least start to take the sub in 1mg increments while I am at work.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 06-02-2014 at 02:36 PM.

  13. #13
    Pghfrank is offline New Member
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    Only on methadone for week 35mg taking8mg subutex today?

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