Results 1 to 24 of 24
Like Tree1Likes
  • 1 Post By Robert_325
Robert_325 and anyone else....need help finishing suboxone
  1. #1
    Dimitrie14vv is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    9

    Default Robert_325 and anyone else....need help finishing suboxone

    Good evening from Europe. I have to ask for some help because I do not know exactly what my next step should be. I am really interested in your advice as I have/had a problem related to oxycontin/oxycodone and just started the suboxone treatment. I have found a doctor, but she has told me to take them as I feel needed.
    I will not waste a lot of your time because I know you are busy and GOD BLESS YOU all for helping out all of us in need. My story real quick; I was in a head on collision, with a tree, driving about 40 mph and had four discs in my lower back herniated two years ago. I was prescribed 3 30mg oxycodone and 2 40mg oxycontin, daily both, about a week after the collision. I took them almost as prescribed, almost because I starting with about one oxycodone and one oxycontin daily, as it really messed me up when I took both medications as prescribed the first two days. By the end of the first year of taking opiates 3 30’s oxycodone each day AND 2 40 mg oxycontin each day, the initial does prescribed. That was the first year of opiate use, and the second year, following year, I was up to about 8 30mg oxycodones OR (and I emphasize OR because I passed out if taking both medicines) 3 80 mg oxycontin each day, by at the end of the second year. I took them for 2 years in total and July 10, 2011 I couldn’t take the chill days and not doing anything and wanted to stop. I tried stopping after the first year and went into what you call “withdrawal” for two days then started taking my medicine again. I start school in oct again which is the reason I am asking for your help and want to stop suboxone. So, I went to the doc and she gave me suboxone, 8mg films/strips, and said to take it 6-9 months, starting with 16mg each day for the first month, then getting to 8 for 3-4 months, then going down. Or to take them as I feel necessary. But I just want to stop everything in these next few weeks. I AM VERY SERIOUS about stopping to take any opiates or anything for my bad back, I will deal with it the rest of my life like my father told me. If you think I should take it longer, please let me know. And if you think that I will not be healthy or mind/brain healed, please let me know. I have taken 16mgs the first three days, July 10-July 13, then went down to 12mgs the next four days, July 14-July 18. I have been on 8 mgs for the past four days as well, July 18-July 22, which is today. I feel ok and have had no problems with any withdrawal at all, except the first two days, but I read everything about Robert_325’s plan and did the induction correctly and everything since them. A little anxienty and stress, and no motivation for even partying. A little problems getting to sleep, but I have slept about 10-12 hours each day after finally passing out. Now, I just want to take suboxone another ten days in and 4-5 weeks maximum because I don’t want to have to take them forever, and I don’t care if I will feel bad for a month after I stop taking suboxone at a .5mg/day dose, as Robert_325 “jumped” from and suggested we also “jump” from. I read a few comments that scared me, but I always have had strong will and never had a problem with any drug my whole life. I want to know what you think of about everything I have written and what you suggest I do. Also, I know the mental part is a big thing, but suboxone is relatively new and that’s don’t want to take it a long time (more than 1.5 months), because nobody really knows the long term affects of it. Please help!!!
    -Dimitri

  2. #2
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    16,677

    Default

    Dimitri .... even though the dr started you out at too high of a dose at 16mg it sounds like you've done a great job on your own tapering pretty close to the suggestions in the sub taper plan I have posted. You're doing great and I don't see any problem with you being able to achieve your goal of being clean in a relatively short time.

    It may take a little longer than ten days or so but if you stick with a 25% reduction of the dose you're on at the time you're reducing every four days or so you should be clean in about six weeks. That includes doing the day skipping process at the end rather than jumping off cold at .5mg. You'll find that stopping abruptly at .5mg is very uncomfortable. I did not jump at .5mg, I went through the process of skipping days. Some people find it easier to taper down to .25mg rather than .5mg before starting the skipping process. Some people even find it easier to taper all the way down to nothing. You've got some time invested here so don't get in a big rush right at the end and creat a problem for yourself.

    I will be happy to work with you through this process if you like offering suggestions as you go along. You shouldn't have any problems at your current dose of 8mg as that is still a relatively high dose. When you get down to 1-2mg it gets more critical to stick to that 25% taper as the dose gets smaller. Just keep me posted as you go forward and I'll help you anyway that I can.

    If you will do exactly as I ask you then I don't anticipate any problems for you. Keep me posted how I can help you. You're on the road to being totally clean very soon. Just don't try to rush it so fast that you create problems for yourself right here so near the end and cause a relapse placing yourself in bad w/d. Will talk soon. God bless.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 07-23-2011 at 01:27 AM.
    Dimitrie14vv likes this.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  3. #3
    Dimitrie14vv is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Hello Robert and thank you for responding, I am reallly glad to have gotten in touch with u. I have been on the 8mgs daily for the last five days, today being the fifth, and starting tomorrow will take 3mg at 12 noon and another 3mg at 7pm, as I have been takin the meds at exactly that same time since day one. Lol, I really plan on following all your advice and your plan until I am done completely. And I realized now you did the skipping a day at .5mg each day, that is what I meant to say in the previous message. Thank you also for the advice on not rushing these next few weeks until I am done with the subs. Also, where I am now and will be for the next two months, there are no types of drugs,oxycontin, ambien, etc....so that is def going to help me with me not relapsing. I also know and am very confident in myself to not take anything ever for the bad back because this hole experience really did SCARE the hell out of me, lol. Just want to be done....I will definitely keep in touch with you ever couple days and let you know how everything is going and if I run into any problems dealing with anything. God bless you and againireally appreciate taking time out of your life to help me out. Dimitri.

    Forgot to ask you...do you think that my mind has had enough time, or will have enough time by the end of this tapering process, to adjust relatively back to normal, or at least re activate my neurotransmitters/natural euphoric process?

  4. #4
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    16,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimitrie14vv View Post
    Hello Robert and thank you for responding, I am reallly glad to have gotten in touch with u. I have been on the 8mgs daily for the last five days, today being the fifth, and starting tomorrow will take 3mg at 12 noon and another 3mg at 7pm, as I have been takin the meds at exactly that same time since day one. Lol, I really plan on following all your advice and your plan until I am done completely. And I realized now you did the skipping a day at .5mg each day, that is what I meant to say in the previous message. Thank you also for the advice on not rushing these next few weeks until I am done with the subs. Also, where I am now and will be for the next two months, there are no types of drugs,oxycontin, ambien, etc....so that is def going to help me with me not relapsing. I also know and am very confident in myself to not take anything ever for the bad back because this hole experience really did SCARE the hell out of me, lol. Just want to be done....I will definitely keep in touch with you ever couple days and let you know how everything is going and if I run into any problems dealing with anything. God bless you and againireally appreciate taking time out of your life to help me out. Dimitri.

    Forgot to ask you...do you think that my mind has had enough time, or will have enough time by the end of this tapering process, to adjust relatively back to normal, or at least re activate my neurotransmitters/natural euphoric process?



    Absolutely YES to your question about reactivating your neurotransmitters in the brain. When you finish the sub taper you may still suffer a little bit of sleep problems for a while, perhaps some minor depression and a little lethargy but nothing that you can't overcome with a good attitude and a light regimen of exercise, just enough to push yourself a little based on your current physical condition. It sounds like you have a great atttitude!

    Stick with me and I would expect you to do very well. You have every reason to anticipate the best of results. You don't sound like someone who has relapse on your mind, just remember those little evil thoughts will occur when temptation crosses your path and it most always does. So attitude is very important.

    Remember this is a process and not an event staying clean when we finish the sub therapy and you'll be fine. I often use the cliche that, "We are all now pickles, we can never be cucumbers again!" lol We can never be casual users from now on. I look forward to seeing you successful, especially after getting such awful adivice from your sub dr initially. I hate it when drs take an innocent person and screw them over with dumb suggestions at your expense. Just out of curiosity, where are you from in Europe as I know the meds are available in different doses in several European countries >> what is available in the USA? Keep in touch. God bless.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 07-23-2011 at 12:00 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  5. #5
    Dimitrie14vv is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    9

    Default

    thanks for the quick response. and also about answering the brain question. i just thought that since i have been taking this medicine for the past 2 years, that it would take about the same time to feel like i did before and to get my brain to function normally, meaning for the activation and processes of the neurotransmitters to start and work properly and for my mind/body to start producing endorphins by the natural ways we get energy and become and feel "good/happy". definitely don't even have relapse on my mind, i seriously am scared to take anything if i get hit by a bus, lol, because i do not know and do not want to think abut what would happen if i had to go through this again.

    i also understand and agree with you about this being a process. 100% my mentality/thoughts as well. i do tend to rush things to get them done, but i understand this is something that should NOT be rushed and done the right away. like you said, in less than 6 weeks i will be completely done. i have a real quick question about the tapering. when you said to reduce 25% every 4 days, u say that said "every 4 days you feel good reduce" probobly meaning when u r not withdrawing at all or minimum withdrawal for 4 days straight. did you mean reduce in this sense, or reduce every 4 days regardless if you might not feel as good 4 days straight. in other words, should i wait the 1-2 days at the begining of tape4ring another level to even out, then start the 4 days straight, or just reduce 25% every 4 days. sorry if there is any confusion in my question as english is my 4th language.i am almost sure you mean reduce every 4 days after you feel comfortable once you have reduced another 25%.

    i like your cliche as well, it definately makes sense and i don't intend to use every, even for casual use. just stick to my cigarettes another year or two, have to quit soon because i don't wnt it to effect my later years.

    right now i am in Greece, but on an island that doesn't have many shops/stores/pharmacies.......resort if you will. but my father has spoken to a friend and he is coming by here from the USA with 100 colonodines as pattishan61 suggested too. i was just talking to you and her, sorry if that upsets you, but i am listening to ur adivce/plan with this process/taper. even though pattishans thoughts were pretty much identical to yours. i do not know about taking those things either...but my dad said the doctor has given his friend the instructions of how/when to thane the colonodines as well, so if i need to desperately i think i will. I always thought that with exercise and eating/sleeping well, almost any physical problems and most of the physic/depression/upset moments could be easily solved. and it has worked for me my whole life until i started taking those darn pain medicines. i will FOR SURE be back to that mindset and spirit soon enough. hopefully 2-3 months tops for today. i also read about paws, just one last question about that. do u think that this applies to me and that paws will be something "tough or hard" of for me to get through? and do you think the amount and time i have been taking those medicines/opiates (i cant believe they call it medicine when it just creates more problems, maybe not for a few people. but when a doctor says take them, you tend to know what he is talking about and that he will not be giving you something so strong and unneeded for back problems, or problems of that sort) has been too long and that this "PAWS" thing is going to be difficult to get through. Honestly, i just think the paws is something that i shouldn't be worried about and that its just something that exists in other instances or in your head?? don't know as much about it though. have read info and know it is real...just don't know if it will affect me. thank you Robert for listening to me again and god bless you for helping me heal and everyone else you have decides to help from your own good heart.
    -Dimitri

  6. #6
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    16,677

    Default

    Dimitri ...... most people feel okay to reduce every four days as that is most often enough time to allow for the long half life of subs. Some people need an extra day or so. It's best to be feeling pretty good before dropping your dose but if you don't feel anything you aren't being agressive enough. You are tapering so you should feel a little something at least. Need to find the happy medium when reducing the dose. But most are able to reduce their dose every four days with relative comfort.

    I would be careful with the clonidine. That is a blood pressure medication. It's been used a long time for opiate detox but you need to monitor your blood pressure. You shouldn't take it if your pressure isn't up around 140-160 / 95-100. Your pressure can drop too low if you take it like pain pills. Be careful. You really shouldn't need it if you taper properly. That is the purpose of doing the taper the right way. You don't need a bunch of other drugs.

    Don't be concerned with PAWS. The odds of you dealing with that are very slim. People have w/d symptoms for a while and automatically assume it's PAWS when in reality very few people ever truly experience PAWS. I can promise you that even if it happens to you as long as you don't use anymore they will go away anyway.

    Expect the best results possible. I've had lots of success with this taper and I have some tricks up my sleeve if you encounter problems. Let's just take this a day at a time and don't worry yourself into an anxiety attack. I have a strong feeling from talking with you that you'll do just fine. You've got a good attitude and seem willing to listen. That is the biggest part of the battle. Stay in touch. God bless.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 07-24-2011 at 03:22 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  7. #7
    Dimitrie14vv is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    9

    Default

    good evening Robert. It is a little past 12 midnight here and i am getting ready to go to sleep and saw that you have emailed me back so i wanted to respond. Real quick about the first paragraph...what do you mean when you said "its best to feel pretty good before dropping your dose...but if you don't feel anything you aren't being aggressive enough"?? Did you mean that i have to feel good in an aggressive way?? sorry i don't understand 100%.

    Second, i am NOT going to take any colonodine as you suggest. Do not want anything to set me back or create more stress/problems.

    Third, I am NOT going to worry or think about PAWS during or after the taper and the suboxone treatment is completed. I understand what you mean when explaing PAWS to me and i understand i might not be 100% ok when i am tapering, when i am done with the suboxone treatment, and even for up to 3 weeks after the treatment is over and i am 3 weeks "all drug free". I know i can expect a little sleep, anxiety, etc problems but will try and not stress or dwell on it as this is normal when someone stops using drugs as strong as the oxycodone and the suboxone treatment.

    Thank you soooooo very much for giving me this even more positive attitude and i expect to do exactly what you have said and we have agreed to do in order to finish the suboxone treatment and recover as safe and feeling as good as possible. Just to let you know i am now finished with the first day of 6mgs (3 mg at noon and 3 mn at 7pm). I feel fine, NO PROBLEMS at all. I will do this 3 more days, 4 at the most if there is a problem one day. I do that think it will be the case, so if we do not talk or you do not have time to respond in these next few days, i will send you a message probably 3 days from now when i lower to 4 mgs per day from the 6 mg now.

    Good night from here and thanl you for trusting me and helping me through this process that you have found to work well. and GOD BLESS YOU TOO MY FRIEND!!!

    -Dimitri

  8. #8
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    16,677

    Default

    Dimitri ...... What I meant about how you feel when you reduce your dose is this. It's not good to reduce when you are having bad w/d symptoms. If you do that the symptoms will follow you right down to the following doses. Reducing your dose when you feel badly will cause you problems the rest of the taper. So it's a good idea to have yourself pretty stable before reducing the dose. You want to feel pretty good before reducing your dose.

    At the same time you are doing a taper here and getting off a drug. So if you never feel any w/d symptoms at all then you are not tapering quickly enough. You're getting off a drug so naturally there is going to be some w/d symptoms although minor.

    The trick here is to accept that you are expected to feel some symptoms as you do the taper, although nothing serious, but at the same time you want to reduce while those symptoms are at a minimum or have leveled off and you're feeling well. Hope that explains it better.

    I know you are speaking here in a language that is foreign to you so I don't mind trying to explain something over again if you misunderstand. I want you to know that you're doing this the right way. Hope that helps. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  9. #9
    Dimitrie14vv is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Good evening my friend. Ok I understand what u said perfectly about the reduction. I will do my best to lower a little more because I am feeling more like you said in the second paragraph, I do not think I am lowering enough because I feel pretty good when lowered from 8 to 6mg. So tomorrow I will lower to 4 mg a day and see how that is go. I will try a couple days and if I feel ok at the end of those two days, I will go another 3-4 days and then lower to 2 mg a day. If I do this I should expect to finish in two weeks or so. I wanted to ask you what you expect or think I may be feeling after I am done and for how many days after I jump will I feel not so good? And also wanted to ask you for how long until the bad symptoms from jumping will peak? An estimate is good because I know you cannot say 100 percent because u cannot tell future haha. I will talk to u tomorrow. Good night Robert.
    -Dimitri

  10. #10
    Dimitrie14vv is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    9

    Default

    hello Robert, how are you today?? Just wanted to give you an update and let you know that everything is working well since we established the taper plan. I am now 23 days into taking suboxone, to recap real quick: I started with 16mg first 2 days, then 12 mgs next 2 days, then 8 mgs for next 6 days, then 6mgs for 6 days, then 4 mgs for 5 days, and have been taking 2-3mgs for the past 2 days. I was reading things about suboxone online, but never really got "scared" about the negative things people said. I was wondering if i should try to go 2 more days with 2mgs, then hit 1mg for 4 days, then .5 mgs for 4 days, and then just jump off. Also, about how many days do you think, in my situation and from what you have understood i can handle, i will feel bad/withdrawing from suboxone?? I says it peaks between days 3-5 after jumping?? Just wondering. Also I have heard that the 3-5 weeks programs on suboxone, including tapering and jumping within those 3-5 weeks, are the easiest and your body will not have gotten used to the suboxone...do you agree with this statement?? Thanks and looking forward for your response. And honestly I havent really felt bad AT ALL during this whole process of tapering and starting suboxone, except the first day and a half. I am really unsure and hesitating jumping after these next 3 days, just go with 2mg today, 1mg tom, and .5mg the third day and stopping. You think this is better or should i continue with the original plan and taper even lower for the next 10 days and then jump?? God Bless you my friend.

  11. #11
    HenryNCBA is offline Advanced Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Northern California Bay Area
    Posts
    1,062

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimitrie14vv View Post
    hello Robert, how are you today?? Just wanted to give you an update and let you know that everything is working well since we established the taper plan. I am now 23 days into taking suboxone, to recap real quick: I started with 16mg first 2 days, then 12 mgs next 2 days, then 8 mgs for next 6 days, then 6mgs for 6 days, then 4 mgs for 5 days, and have been taking 2-3mgs for the past 2 days. I was reading things about suboxone online, but never really got "scared" about the negative things people said. I was wondering if i should try to go 2 more days with 2mgs, then hit 1mg for 4 days, then .5 mgs for 4 days, and then just jump off. Also, about how many days do you think, in my situation and from what you have understood i can handle, i will feel bad/withdrawing from suboxone?? I says it peaks between days 3-5 after jumping?? Just wondering. Also I have heard that the 3-5 weeks programs on suboxone, including tapering and jumping within those 3-5 weeks, are the easiest and your body will not have gotten used to the suboxone...do you agree with this statement?? Thanks and looking forward for your response. And honestly I havent really felt bad AT ALL during this whole process of tapering and starting suboxone, except the first day and a half. I am really unsure and hesitating jumping after these next 3 days, just go with 2mg today, 1mg tom, and .5mg the third day and stopping. You think this is better or should i continue with the original plan and taper even lower for the next 10 days and then jump?? God Bless you my friend.
    Hello Dimitrie,
    Robert and Melinda's computers went down last night so I am standing in for him until he gets back up on line. Normally for the sub taper program, nothing set in stone, the general rule is a 25% reduction every four days. What this does is it gives your body/mind time to adjust to the new level you taper to. Done too fast it can throw your system into disarray of sorts. Usually not noticeable so much at the higher doses, above 2 mgs but once you get down to the smaller doses symptoms will start to manifest itself. As you get down to the smaller doses you would want to start a strict regime on the taper program. Say you are down to 2 mgs per day. Most folks do better on 2 doses per day with one in the early morning and one in the late afternoon with each dose being equal to the other. You don’t want to take it too late in the evening as it can interrupt and give you sleep issues. So getting back to what I was saying say you start at 2 mgs. You dose 2 mgs per day for 4 days then on the 5th day you reduce by 25% meaning your next taper level will be 3 mgs. You take these 3 mgs for 4 days and on the 5th day you reduce again down by 25%. You continue this program until you reach .25 mgs per day at which point you can start your skipping days or if you wish you can taper further depending on how you are feeling. Generally symptoms will start to manifest itself when you get down to the smaller doses especially micro doses. I have always said that subs are very powerful albeit tiny meds and while a tiny crumb does not look like much it packs on very powerful wallop. Subs are 30 to 40 times more powerful than morphine with all variables being equal and they also only work in a very narrow spectrum of us so it is easy to see why following a regimented taper program is critical. Subs also have a long half life of up to 72 hours so this taper program always keeps you right on that edge. You should feel some discomfort for if you do not you really have no way to gauge your progress. If one were to feel great all the time there is no way of telling if the program is working or not. Working with subs there are two key elements that will help ensure a successful, progressive and efficient taper. The first is to not waiver on dosages. Always take the same amount and whatever you do don’t increase. If in doubt don’t take and wait for instructions. Once taken you can’t just reach in and pull it back out and it may not seem to make any difference today or tomorrow but remember the long half life? Many folks get into trouble with this as they bounce up and down on their doses thinking how they immediately feel is their gauge for what to take which is a huge mistake. We must always remember the algorithm 3 to 4 days out because of the long half life so if one were to bounce up and down on doses the stabilization a few days out will become difficult at best. The second is to dose at the same times every day. We are all accustomed to taking meds pretty much when needed but humans being creatures of habit need to have order and stability for us to function at our prime. Our system starts to look for the subs around the times we dose. If it is not there then our subconcous system takes over and starts to make arrangements to cope with the missing medications. With a powerful med like subs you don’t want to slam it unsuspectingly as it can over compensate. I know it sounds silly and trivial but rest assured subs are not to be taken for granted. They are not like other meds out there which is why so many people get into trouble hence all the horror stories.
    Let me know if I can be of help to you until Robert gets back on line.
    Have a great day!

    Henry

  12. #12
    Dimitrie14vv is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Hello Henry and thanks for filling in and responding. First of all i want to say that i took the subs in two doses everyday at the exact same time, 12 noon and 7pm. since i started taking the 2mg daily, two days ago, i switched to once a day at 3pm. Should i take them twice a day still?? Also, i have been lowering every 4-5 days, and i seem to not have ay withdrawal when i do, maybe a half hr or so of mental withdrawal. Maybe this is because i am allowing the long half-life to catch up. Probably exactly that reason. I have been on vacation for these past two months and and have 2 more months vacation before i start school. However, i want to jump from the sub within the next 2-3 weeks so that i have at least a month before school without taking anything. the way things are going with me now, i should be at 2mgs for another 2-3 days, then drop to 1-1.5mg for 4-5 days, then .5-1mg for 4-5 days, then start the skipping for another week once i am down to .5mg a day, which should be in 10 days tops...I am also not afraid of withdrawal and do not care if i do not feel good for even up to a week, which is why i was considering jumping after 3-4 more days of lowering 25% each day, im just think why keep postponing the inevitable if i havent felt withdrawals at all since i started the sub program 23 days ago. Am i thinking about it the right way?? I completely agree with the two key elements you stated. I have never increased a dose and always dose at the same times since the beginning. I just can't seem to understand or even imagine why these other people have problems with the tapering and such bad withdrawals. Maybe because they do not follow these two key elements you have pointed out and because they have been taking suboxone medicine for too long. the american doctor that gave these to my father for me said take them when needed and not past 6 months total, with taper and everything. and she also said i can take them and finish them in 1 month or even 2 if i feel ok with i am on them. she is one of the best i know for fact because my father always recieve the best. she said start with 8-12mg first day and 16 only first day or two if i do not feel ok with the 8-12 and start lowering immediately after the first week becuase i only took oxycodone/oxycontin for 2 years and first year 3 30mg oxycodone a day and second year up to 2-3 80 mg oxycontin a day towards the end. she said i go like this because i become dependent and needed more to feel the same as the first year. she also say i not addict because i never abuse the medicines and i talk to her two days ago and she said she thought i would be finish in 1-2 months becuase of my history and my mentality?? i take as compliment for sure, haha. she said also i can stop the suboxone medicine at 1-2mg a day and be ok after 4-6 days because i told her i talk to robert and she said it was good i listen to him with taper and everything. anyway, just wanted to let you get more information on my history and everything. thank you very much for your help and hope to hear from you soon. god bless you my friend Henry.
    -Dimitri

  13. #13
    HenryNCBA is offline Advanced Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Northern California Bay Area
    Posts
    1,062

    Default

    Hello Dimitri,
    You can dose once per day that is fine. Just that if you chose once a day then it is best to stick with once a day. Folks I have been helping I always make sure that once they decide whether they dose twice or once a day to stick to which ever one they chose. Either way if it doesn't work out there is always the option to go to the other one but the main thing is to not go once a couple days then twice a couple days then back to one and on and on. You can vary if need be but that should be reserved for adjustments and tweaking of the program to fit your needs. I personally would not recommend jumping from .5 mgs as you WILL feel something. It has been done but for the vast majority that has all sorts of issues has arisen. No sense in tempting fate. Those that make it okay are one of the very few where perhaps their biological system along with their psychological side also fall into certain parameters that work well with what they are doing. Again those folks are very lucky and far and few between and there is no way of knowing unless one tries it but once they do and if they encounter trouble it is much more difficult to get them back out of it and back on track. No doctor in their right mind should ever put anyone on such a high amount of sub. 2 mgs ok. 4 mgs maybe and occasionally 6 or in rare cases 8 but anything over that is asking for trouble. My own sub doctor that specializes in addiction and tapers started me on 8 mgs tablets 4 times a day for a whopping 32 mgs. Even though back then I knew nothing of subs even I thought that much too high so started myself on 16 mgs per day and I was a mess. When I found this site I was already a train wreck and Robert inducted me at, you are going to love this, you ready?, at only 1.25mgs per day total!!! That was all that was necessary after years of opiate use. Everything from oxy, hydro, hydromet syrup, morphine, you name it. I crossed every "T" and dotted every "I" and many folks were making fun of me on this forum because I was being so anal about listing symptoms, blood pressure, pulse rate, respiration rate, etc... to Robert but the end result is I got clean in record time. I started my taper in late September of 2009 and was completely clean November 11th, 2009. So no matter what anyone said or made fun of me with it didn't matter
    Because I was the one clean. Since then I have intensely studied subs, taper and related issues and have helped countless folks myself already and I can promise you that this is the best taper program out there bar none.
    If you do not have the mental addictive qualities of an addict but suffer withdrawals you are what they call chemically dependant. Now I know I will receive a lot of flak over this as the end results are the same but it is the mind set that differs.
    Just take it by the numbers gradually and consistently and you will be fine. I just would not recommend jumping from .5 mgs. You are so close to .25 mgs anyway so I would recommend you take it down to at least .25mgs. It isn't a matter of how much suffering you can endure my friend. The key is to be rid of this demon. I have had folks jump from .5 mgs myself against my recommendations and weeks later they are still struggling. Of course there are other factors in between that complicate matters and once it reaches that point it is best to stop everything and go into withdrawal completely and reinduct the person again and start over but at a much lower dosage.

    Henry

  14. #14
    Dimitrie14vv is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Ok so i will dose once everyday at 3pm, 2mgs, like i have been doing for the past 2 days. And i will just stick with this for the rest of the taper. Now, you suggest that i do 2mg two more days, then lower 25% for 4 days until i get to .25mg per day?? Ok, I will do that, I will still finish in 3 weeks like i want to anyway...not that there is really a time limit...but just a time i want to have with nothing in my system(at least one month after i jump). I completely understand when you say that "it isnt a matter of how much suffering you can endure my friend"....i didnt really think of it in that sense. i just wanted to stop thinking and worrying when i have to take my next dose and when i have to lower again...and the main thing is that having mild withdrawals for 3 weeks while slowly tapering, to me, is worse than jumping off 1-2mgs and having moderate withdrawals for a week or so...thats just something i was thinking about (mainly because the island in Greece that i am on and will be for the next two months has no types of drugs/opiates/etc...therefore making my relapse chances impossible for the next two months, and after that i am not worried because i have enough will to not do anything anymore. just some thoughts. i will continue to do as you and robert suggest tho. thanks Henry.
    -Dimitri

  15. #15
    HenryNCBA is offline Advanced Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Northern California Bay Area
    Posts
    1,062

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimitrie14vv View Post
    Ok so i will dose once everyday at 3pm, 2mgs, like i have been doing for the past 2 days. And i will just stick with this for the rest of the taper. Now, you suggest that i do 2mg two more days, then lower 25% for 4 days until i get to .25mg per day?? Ok, I will do that, I will still finish in 3 weeks like i want to anyway...not that there is really a time limit...but just a time i want to have with nothing in my system(at least one month after i jump). I completely understand when you say that "it isnt a matter of how much suffering you can endure my friend"....i didnt really think of it in that sense. i just wanted to stop thinking and worrying when i have to take my next dose and when i have to lower again...and the main thing is that having mild withdrawals for 3 weeks while slowly tapering, to me, is worse than jumping off 1-2mgs and having moderate withdrawals for a week or so...thats just something i was thinking about (mainly because the island in Greece that i am on and will be for the next two months has no types of drugs/opiates/etc...therefore making my relapse chances impossible for the next two months, and after that i am not worried because i have enough will to not do anything anymore. just some thoughts. i will continue to do as you and robert suggest tho. thanks Henry.
    -Dimitri
    Good evening Dimitri,
    Robert's computer is still down. They will be going to get it repaired tomorrow so he hopes to be back up on line sometime tomorrow. In the meantime if you need anything I have you listed for instant notification to myself should you post any questions or concerns here on this thread. I will touch base with you tomorrow morning to see how you are doing.
    Have a wonderful evening!

    Henry

  16. #16
    Hopewins is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    9

    Default Hi Robert..yes! I would like some help as well

    Hi I am a new member to this site...wasn't getting many responses elsewhere
    Long story short,this is my 2nd time on subsI went back on them due to unbearable pawsI was taken off at 8mg at that time...having no knowledge of dosing then.I am now On 1.75mg down from 4mg's..Feeling ok ,not great.I see you have helped many and I am looking to start doing this mid t late August any ideas...this must be so repetitive to you,I kinda feel selfish in a way,however I need help.my fear of wd's has become obsessive...thank you sincerely

  17. #17
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    16,677

    Default

    Dimitri ..... My computer crashed. I am back on the forum. Let me know how you're doing so we can proceed forward. Don't leave anything out. I am thankful Henry was around to help you while my computer was out of commission. Let me know how I can help you. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  18. #18
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    16,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopewins View Post
    Hi I am a new member to this site...wasn't getting many responses elsewhere
    Long story short,this is my 2nd time on subsI went back on them due to unbearable pawsI was taken off at 8mg at that time...having no knowledge of dosing then.I am now On 1.75mg down from 4mg's..Feeling ok ,not great.I see you have helped many and I am looking to start doing this mid t late August any ideas...this must be so repetitive to you,I kinda feel selfish in a way,however I need help.my fear of wd's has become obsessive...thank you sincerely



    I will be glad to help you. Why wait till mid to late august >> doing it now? All you need to do is a simple taper. You won't suffer any bad w/d if you will just follow the suggestions I give you. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  19. #19
    Hopewins is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    9

    Default Hi and Thank you!

    My thoughts on waiting are kinda simple(I think)The next two weeks are packed with end of summer activities with my children...I don't want to undergo any changes at that time.Also when you are able to work with me I would like to have a few days for myself and my spirit.

    Finding such an unselfish person like yourself ,has given me hope...please stay in touch.I will be reading everyone elses journey/advice in the meanwhile.Is there anything I should begin to do now?

    Have you heard about any PAWS symptoms after the subs. are done and does this technique help decrease them at all?
    Most importantly thank you and have a great day

  20. #20
    Hopewins is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    9

    Default ps

    How do you pm a person on this site?

  21. #21
    Dimitrie14vv is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Hello Robert, and everyone else. I have been away for these past ten days pretty much by myself on a "mini-island" off greece. I have been here with just a few 8mg subs, water/food, and left my computer back on the bigger island. Been doing some fishing/swimming, and just thinking about life and planning my future. I thought this would be a good break for me to deal with the trouble i was having at 2mgs, (Robert, i stayed at 2mgs for 10 days before i lowerd to 1.5mgs 2 days ago, just because i had been feeling bad the first 6 days on 2mg and the last 4 days i didnt have withdrawal and felt good) I started 1.5mgs two days ago and hope to be feeling ok in 3-4 days to drop to 1mg. Why and how do you explain such of a big difference between 3mg to 2mg and anything lower than 2mg in general when you lower?? i have felt perfect until i reached 2mg. Do you suggest that i try and lower every 4 days 25% even if i feel bad?? (Just to get it over with in the next two weeks and finish the taper?? And also, i know i asked you before, but do you think PAWS will affect me, either from the oxycodone or the month long of suboxone(well 32 days tonight)? Also, what do you think the best amount of time for a person to start suboxone medicine and taper/finish with it will be. A total of 3 weeks, a month as Thor suggested, 6 months as my doctor suggested?? So many mixed feelings i have about this whole thing. Maybe i shouldve just jumped from the oxycodone and sent myself to this island for a month the last night i took my last 30mg oxycodone and just dealt with the pain, haha. maybe i wouldve made myself forget about the oxycodone or stop the habit....or maybe not. This whole process has just been so confusing and i cant even explain how i feel about this whole thing...i never knew what the oxycodone even was until after the first year i took it and realized why i needed more, not to mention suboxone, seeing hte doctor and planning to start it 2 days before i stopped oxycodone.just venting, sorry for the long paragraph. god bless everyone here trying to do the right things for themselves and helping others.

    -Dimitri

  22. #22
    Pippi4J is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: Suboxone Taper & Suboxone as a PRN?

    Dear Robert, I salute your commitment here at Drugs.com
    IT takes a lot of passion, hard work and willingness to help others. I commend you! I really liked your other posts so I thought I'd come to you! I think I am in the right place.

    I have been on Suboxone for almost 2 years. I moved and found a new Doctor who has kept me on it for an additonal year. My wishes were to get off the suboxone, his wishes were to keep me on it and through that year of still wanting to get off it, he would say,"Not at this time". I believe he beleives it is a good drug for me to stay on. I also take many other medications for Bipolar Disorder. We've been constantly shifting meds so I think he may have wanted to keep the suboxone consistant. The only reason why I am still on it for so many years, it is the ONLY drug outside of a normal opiate that stops my severe Restless Leg Syndrome. It had gotten so painful that I've landed myself in the ER for relief and I was never given any. The only thing that stops it is an opiate. So this is one really huge reason I want to stay on Suboxone it stops all of it!! I have regular attacks probably 4x per week. I have tried Requip for RLS and did nothing and cannot take Benadryl. I am currently taking 1/12 tablets, 12mg. I was taking 36mg but cut it down quickly about 6 months ago with no noticable side affects. I tried to go lower than 12 mg and started to have craving but I think that had more to do with this guy in my apt. running in and out of our building and doing the slick pills in the hand for money with the other guys window half rolled down on a 24 hour basis. Right in front of my balcony were I engage in a smoke here and there. . He had way to many clients for me to keep track of. Only to find out he was shortly evicted. THANK GOD!! I didn't realize the affect it had on me. I had to admit to myself, "Yes this is having a grave affect on you... and even to accept what was happening". So the craving could have been directly related to this >> the cut back to 4mg and doc agreed.
    Also another toughy question why I want off daily suboxone and PRN(prescribed when needed) for RLS. Is that I am going in for oral surgery, dental implants where they drive a spike into the jaw bone where the tooth no longer exsists. Don't you think I would have to have short term regular narcotics for pain relief?? I don't think a small dose of Sub is going to do it and it's all scary. Could you provide a tapering down regimin for me? Have you ever heard of anyone taking Suboxone for RLS when needed only? Would it be safe for me to take short term narcotics in this situation after surgery?

    Any comments would be greatly appreciated Thank you for listeningHope your day is a gentle one:
    Pippi4J

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    397

    Post RLS and opiates

    I had a girlfriend once, with sever RLS like you, Pippi, who got relief only from opiates. She took codeine, though, and didn't use subs. Her doctor told her that it is well-know that opiates help RLS. but that doctors hate to start patients down the Poppy Pathway, hence they try almost anything else to treat it.

    Re your dental implants:
    Even a small amount of Suboxone will block other opiates, so If you are taking subs when you are having dental surgery, short term opiates won't help in normal, safe doses. Robert or Henry will be able to fill you in on that much better than me. That's the scary part to me of long term subs;it takes away your ability to respond to opiate pain relievers post-op if the need arises.

  24. #24
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    16,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pippi4J View Post
    Dear Robert, I salute your commitment here at Drugs.com
    IT takes a lot of passion, hard work and willingness to help others. I commend you! I really liked your other posts so I thought I'd come to you! I think I am in the right place.

    I have been on Suboxone for almost 2 years. I moved and found a new Doctor who has kept me on it for an additonal year. My wishes were to get off the suboxone, his wishes were to keep me on it and through that year of still wanting to get off it, he would say,"Not at this time". I believe he beleives it is a good drug for me to stay on. I also take many other medications for Bipolar Disorder. We've been constantly shifting meds so I think he may have wanted to keep the suboxone consistant. The only reason why I am still on it for so many years, it is the ONLY drug outside of a normal opiate that stops my severe Restless Leg Syndrome. It had gotten so painful that I've landed myself in the ER for relief and I was never given any. The only thing that stops it is an opiate. So this is one really huge reason I want to stay on Suboxone it stops all of it!! I have regular attacks probably 4x per week. I have tried Requip for RLS and did nothing and cannot take Benadryl. I am currently taking 1/12 tablets, 12mg. I was taking 36mg but cut it down quickly about 6 months ago with no noticable side affects. I tried to go lower than 12 mg and started to have craving but I think that had more to do with this guy in my apt. running in and out of our building and doing the slick pills in the hand for money with the other guys window half rolled down on a 24 hour basis. Right in front of my balcony were I engage in a smoke here and there. . He had way to many clients for me to keep track of. Only to find out he was shortly evicted. THANK GOD!! I didn't realize the affect it had on me. I had to admit to myself, "Yes this is having a grave affect on you... and even to accept what was happening". So the craving could have been directly related to this >> the cut back to 4mg and doc agreed.
    Also another toughy question why I want off daily suboxone and PRN(prescribed when needed) for RLS. Is that I am going in for oral surgery, dental implants where they drive a spike into the jaw bone where the tooth no longer exsists. Don't you think I would have to have short term regular narcotics for pain relief?? I don't think a small dose of Sub is going to do it and it's all scary. Could you provide a tapering down regimin for me? Have you ever heard of anyone taking Suboxone for RLS when needed only? Would it be safe for me to take short term narcotics in this situation after surgery?

    Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for listeningHope your day is a gentle one
    Pippi4J



    Pippi ....... Here is the link to the sub therapy and taper plan I suggest using. Read it carefully and then we can proceed forward. You'll see that you are still taking probably four times at least as much sub as anyone really needs. I induct people here at 2-3mg all the time. And they are totally sub free in a couple months. Here is the link.

    https://www.drugs.com/forum/featured...apy-50887.html

    Personally I would taper off the subs prior to doing the implants. For what my opinion is worth I don't think that a sub dr (unless they are a psychiatrist ) should be prescribing subs for bi-polar disorder.

    An oral surgeon can't use the same drugs that an anethesiologist can use to perform surgery, like the drugs Michael Jackson used for sleep. He would have to keep a dr on site administering those drugs and they just don't do that for dental work. So your options are slim but to get off the subs.

    I can help you if you will follow the taper plan to the letter and do exactly as I ask you to do. But realistically we are looking at 2-3 months for you to get clean and allow enough time where the subs will be out of your system so opiates will work adequately. And even then you will need to be very careful or you'll end up back on the opiate merry go round again. Let me know how I can help you. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22