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Robert_325, NEED HELP!
  1. #1
    scared2428 is offline New Member
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    Default Robert_325, NEED HELP!

    Robert, I am hoping you read this post, as I have seen how you are able to help many people on here. I am 19 weeks pregnant and really scared. I was on 10mgs of subs when I found out I was pregnant, weaned down to 2mgs, and then jumped 2 months ago. Made it through the acute withdrawals, but was still complaining to dr about symptoms (faitgue, back pain, rls, etc). He put me on vicodin 7.5mgs 4/day 6 weeks ago. I was scared to death to get another dependence, as I had just beat subs and withdrawals from that. He assured me that we would wean down by the time baby was born, etc. and that it was a low dose. I am trying to get down to 3.5 pills and have some days, but it is really hard. The plan was to wean down each month by .5mgs...but that would still have me on them when baby comes. So confusing!

    I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. Each day that I am on the vicodin, I feel like I am creating more of a dependence to them. I do not want to go back on subs as I feel like my dose of vicodin is too low and do NOT want to do those withdrawals again.

    So, should I do a fast taper of vicodin to just quit now? Could I do a rapid induction of subs for a week to avoid acute withdrawal then stop? Or should I go back on subs and taper down to a more reasonable level then jump? Or just stick with the "plan" and keep weaning on vicodin (although it is VERY slow and difficult). Please help..this is taking up WAYYYY too much space in my head and I just want to be free of this head game and physcial dependence. Any help you could lend would be GREATLY appreciated. Thank you soooo much and God Bless You for what you do!!!!!!!!!!!

  2. #2
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Do you still have any subs? How do you feel about tapering off the pain pills? Tell me what you think. I can help you either way. Would rather see you just get off the pain meds for what it's worth. I can help you, just tell me what YOU want to do. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    scared2428 is offline New Member
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    Hi Robert! Thank you for getting back to me. I want to be free of anything that me and the baby could be dependent on, and suffer the least amount of physical/mental pain in the process. It just seems to me that the "plan" of reducing by .5mgs per month is crazy because I am due in January. I have an appointment with my dr next Wednesday and was going to ask her about that. I am supposed to be at 3.5 pills per day right now, and some days I get there, but others I still take 4 pills. If I can't reduce by .5/month, I don't see how I can do this my WHOLE pregnancy.

    So, I would like to get a plan to get off everything. I am not sure if it has to be rapid or not, and willing to take suggestions. For this low of a dose, I would think subs would not be a good option? I guess I am looking for advice to be as sick as little as possible and not hurt the baby. I would be willing to do subs for a week or so, if you thought that was best. I threw them all out, but could probably get more next week when I go to the dr. I am scheduled to travel over labor day weekend, too, so was hoping to do something when I got back as I am functioning currently, but know that I cannot continue on this way. What are your thoughts? If you were me...what would you do?

  4. #4
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by scared2428 View Post
    Hi Robert! Thank you for getting back to me. I want to be free of anything that me and the baby could be dependent on, and suffer the least amount of physical/mental pain in the process. It just seems to me that the "plan" of reducing by .5mgs per month is crazy because I am due in January. I have an appointment with my dr next Wednesday and was going to ask her about that. I am supposed to be at 3.5 pills per day right now, and some days I get there, but others I still take 4 pills. If I can't reduce by .5/month, I don't see how I can do this my WHOLE pregnancy.

    So, I would like to get a plan to get off everything. I am not sure if it has to be rapid or not, and willing to take suggestions. For this low of a dose, I would think subs would not be a good option? I guess I am looking for advice to be as sick as little as possible and not hurt the baby. I would be willing to do subs for a week or so, if you thought that was best. I threw them all out, but could probably get more next week when I go to the dr. I am scheduled to travel over labor day weekend, too, so was hoping to do something when I got back as I am functioning currently, but know that I cannot continue on this way. What are your thoughts? If you were me...what would you do?




    I know that I wouldn't have you taper .5mg per month. That is not even a taper. With you being on 3.5pills per day I would start cutting 1/2 pill every few days. You're not really a good sub candidate being on the pills for such a short time and not really a high dose. I hate to see you start back on subs or just stop cold and suffer w/d, though I would prefer that to running this out until the time you deliver.

    If you start tomorrow reducing by 1/2 pill every three days or so you could exercise, take hot baths, eat the right foods, lots of things to do to make the symptoms as minimal as possible. You're past the first trimester which is the most critical. Let me know what YOU think, but I say we do a taper and once you get down to about one pill a day just stop. That is my best advice. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    scared2428 is offline New Member
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    Hey Robert. Thank you for your feedback. I feel that a fast taper of the hydrocodone would be best too. I have to ask...do you think that the hydros have been covering up the sub withdrawal? I am really, really, scared of withdrawing again...for me, and the baby. I feel blessed that I made it through the hellish 2 weeks of jumping off of 2mgs of sub while pregnant, but scared that the hydros might just be masking some PAWS symptoms as I did immediately feel better. Do you think that the 30 mgs of vicodin I am on will be as hard as the 2mgs of sub? I guess if I taper, it won't be as bad, but I am terrified of that as well. SOOO confusing.

  6. #6
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by scared2428 View Post
    Hey Robert. Thank you for your feedback. I feel that a fast taper of the hydrocodone would be best too. I have to ask...do you think that the hydros have been covering up the sub withdrawal? I am really, really, scared of withdrawing again...for me, and the baby. I feel blessed that I made it through the hellish 2 weeks of jumping off of 2mgs of sub while pregnant, but scared that the hydros might just be masking some PAWS symptoms as I did immediately feel better. Do you think that the 30 mgs of vicodin I am on will be as hard as the 2mgs of sub? I guess if I taper, it won't be as bad, but I am terrified of that as well. SOOO confusing.



    Sure the hydros have helped to cover up the sub w/d. But going from hydros to subs back to hydros then to subs is obviously not the way to do this.

    Stick with the hydro taper. It's been a short stint on them and it won't be all that bad. No way that tapering or detoxoing off the small hydro dose will compare to stopping subs at 2mg abruptly.

    Don't be scared, you're doing the right thing. Just relax and move forward with confidence that you've made the right decision. Keep me posted. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    scared2428 is offline New Member
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    Good morning Robert. I have been spending a lot of time thinking about this, and have been very, very scared and confused. I posted on another forum to a dr who runs the forum about whether I should go back on subs or try to taper off vicodin and here was his response (can't believe he got back to me!):

    "The recommendations for pregnancy by the experts in addiction medicine is to stay on either buprenorphine (Subutex or Suboxone) or methadone. The reason for that is because the medications do NOT pose risks for the baby—but going up and down repeatedly DOES risk hurting the baby. Trying to taper off opioid agonists NEVER works; I have tried it dozens of times, and you probably have too. Everyone tries. But even if you are successful, after trying a hundred times, chances are that you will only end up back on Vicodin again at some point in the future. For many reasons, the relapse rate is simply very high.

    I realize that a few people are able to stay off opioids. But so many people lose everything from trying, and from repeated relapses, that I think that the most ethical thing to do is to keep people on Suboxone. On that medication they are safe, after all. If you REALLY have to get off opioids, pregnancy is NOT the right time to do it. You need to be taking care of yourself, eating right, getting some exercise, sleeping well—things that you cannot do when in withdrawal.

    My recommendation would be to get back on Suboxone, quit worrying about being on it, and get on with life. If you want to stop sometime after the pregnancy, you would want to do a very slow taper…. The withdrawal STARTS at about 2 mg per day, so you don’t want to jump at that point—you want to taper down to very, very low doses. There is a patch called ‘butrans’ that has a range of strengths, with the largest releasing ½ mg per day, and the smallest a tenth of a mg per day—you might want to use those, as you get to the very end."

    So,my question is this...do you think he is RIGHT? I mean, I went through the horrific withdrawals on sub already. I would hate to go back on and run the risk of my baby having NAS. Part of me wants to prove him wrong and show him that i CAN taper off vics, but he is basically saying it just won't work. Please help. I am not at a point to where I can rapidly taper yet...don't go to the doc until next Wed and have to leave town on Thur-Mon. Want to wait until I get back and either get OFF these pills or go back on subs and wean down. SOOO SCARED..It's ALL I think of and just want to enjoy my pregnancy. PLEASE HELP ME.

  8. #8
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    That sounds like total BS to me. If you want to get clean I can help you without hurting the baby. Has to be done right but we have had a lot of girls succesful even just recently. Some are tapering on the forum right now. You have to work on doing the right things after you get clean to stay that way. Let me know when you're ready. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    scared2428 is offline New Member
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    Have you seen pregnant women taper off pain pills or just suboxone? Seems like I keep hearing it is impossible to taper off pills. I have never tried before, so wouldn't know. Thank you for your assistance and I will be in touch.

  10. #10
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by scared2428 View Post
    Have you seen pregnant women taper off pain pills or just suboxone? Seems like I keep hearing it is impossible to taper off pills. I have never tried before, so wouldn't know. Thank you for your assistance and I will be in touch.



    Opiates are opiates and subs are opiates too! When you're ready I am. You follow what I ask you to do and we'll get you clean I promise. I'll stick with you until you are totally clean as long as you listen and follow through. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    The doctor is operating from a "once an addict always an addict" perspective after being through this process with hundreds of patients that "said" they wanted to quit but didn't. I meet daily with hundreds of people that wanted to quit and did...and most doctors don't know we exist. When you are ready, nothing will stop you from surrendering. It's all a matter of perspective. I tapered to .25. (or thereabouts) and kicked without too much suffering. You can do it too.
    Robert_325 and submom2b like this.

  12. #12
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiriusMoonlight View Post
    The doctor is operating from a "once an addict always an addict" perspective after being through this process with hundreds of patients that "said" they wanted to quit but didn't. I meet daily with hundreds of people that wanted to quit and did...and most doctors don't know we exist. When you are ready, nothing will stop you from surrendering. It's all a matter of perspective. I tapered to .25. (or thereabouts) and kicked without too much suffering. You can do it too.




    Good to see you back on the forum. Glad to see you are still a success story, knew you would be all along. I agree totally with you. Sub drs deal with people in rehabs all day, the people who got clean went home and got on with their lives. You don't get good information from failures, you seek it from the winners. The drs don't deal with the winners either, only the ones who continue to fail. God bless.
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    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    scared2428 is offline New Member
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    Hi Robert...hoping you get this, as it has been a couple of weeks. I am still holding at 3.5 pills of 7.5 hydrocodones / day or 26.25 total mgs a day. I went to my doctor on 8/31 and she said I could speed up the "taper" to dropping .5mgs every 3 weeks. This is still insane to me. I can't seem to do it. I am supposed to be at 3 pills now, then 2.5 pills in another couple weeks, but I can't seem to space them out good enough and end up on my current schedule. I honestly feel like if I was dropping every 4 days or so it would be so much more manageable. This just seems neverending to me.

    SOOOO, my question is this...how long when I follow your plan will my taper be? I am trying to find a good time where I can be sick if I need to be after dropping off all together. I am still working and have several commitments for the next week and 1/2. I know I sound like I am making excuses (probably am) but I am functioning now and need to find some time to where I can be sick if I have to.

    Also, although I have done the sub route/withdrawal I am VERY inexperienced when it comes to opiate withdrawal. The amount I am on seems low to me from what I hear others go off of, but do you think it will be very hard for me? I have only been on them 2 months, but subs for 7 months before that. Thank you for listening to me. I know I probably sound wishy-washy but being pregnant and having to already go through cymbalta, sub, and clonazepam withdrawal through this pregnancy..I am downright terrified. Thank you.

  14. #14
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by scared2428 View Post
    Hi Robert...hoping you get this, as it has been a couple of weeks. I am still holding at 3.5 pills of 7.5 hydrocodones / day or 26.25 total mgs a day. I went to my doctor on 8/31 and she said I could speed up the "taper" to dropping .5mgs every 3 weeks. This is still insane to me. I can't seem to do it. I am supposed to be at 3 pills now, then 2.5 pills in another couple weeks, but I can't seem to space them out good enough and end up on my current schedule. I honestly feel like if I was dropping every 4 days or so it would be so much more manageable. This just seems neverending to me.

    SOOOO, my question is this...how long when I follow your plan will my taper be? I am trying to find a good time where I can be sick if I need to be after dropping off all together. I am still working and have several commitments for the next week and 1/2. I know I sound like I am making excuses (probably am) but I am functioning now and need to find some time to where I can be sick if I have to.

    Also, although I have done the sub route/withdrawal I am VERY inexperienced when it comes to opiate withdrawal. The amount I am on seems low to me from what I hear others go off of, but do you think it will be very hard for me? I have only been on them 2 months, but subs for 7 months before that. Thank you for listening to me. I know I probably sound wishy-washy but being pregnant and having to already go through cymbalta, sub, and clonazepam withdrawal through this pregnancy..I am downright terrified. Thank you.




    There is no way that I would stretch out a taper so long as what you're doing it. I could induct you on the subs this week. If we did the sub induction I would have you totally clean and off all opiates including the subs in about two months. Doesn't matter to me what the dr says to you, I know how to do this. Wish you could just start the sub taper now. Do one thing at a time. Trying to taper off all those meds at once is a nightmare. I know how to do it the right way. We would do the subs, then the benzos and deal with the cymbalta last. Let me know if I can help you. I don't know what to do as long as you're following this taper plan you're on. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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    scared2428 is offline New Member
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    Hi Robert. I guess I'm confused. I thought we talked about not going on
    Subs again and just tapering off the hydros since I was on a low amount? I don't have any subs but could probably get some from my doc. I just thought they were stronger and hydros would be easier from our previous chat.

    Don't worry about the other meds. I did all of those back in May one at a time. I have been free of them since. Was just letting u know that I have pretty much been withdrawaling this whole pregnancy and where some of my fears are from.

    So, all I am on is 26.25mgs of hydros/day since July 13th. Do u think I should really go back on subs or could we taper from here? I am willing to listen and follow your plan, but was curious as to how long so I could plan accordingly. I have 2 small kids and a full time job...I have missed so much work through all this but functioning now. I worry with the taper/jump I will be sick and just want to be prepared. Thank you.

  16. #16
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    My mistake about the subs. Continue to taper off the hydros but pick up the tempo some. You could be off the hydros in a couple weeks if you taper 1/2 pill every 3-4 days and it would not be that bad. Sorry about the error. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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