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Sub detox begins next week
  1. #1
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    Default Sub detox begins next week

    I've followed some advice on these boards, mostly from Robert, and have gotten myself down from 16mg per day (too much!!) to .5 per day in two 12 hour doses. I can go .25 per day (one dose) for two days but after that I'm in withdrawl anyway...so I may as well make the move and go to zero. I've been off the >>>>>> and oxy since last February and I don't want to go over a year on subs. As much as I've been hoping that all this tapering will make it easier, I have reason to believe that it will still be a miserable 10-20 days that has to get done sooner or later so I'm going to do it now. I've been ready to do it since November but my spouse didn't think it was convenient for me to leave her with the family responsibilities and be sick over the holidays.

    The reason I am starting this thread is that I have received much inspiration and hope from reading the stories of other addicts on this forum. A little background on me is that I have been strung out for most of my adult life on one kind of opiate or another. I have had serious pain issues associated with chronic lifelong Rheumatoid Arthritis and some serious bone fractures due to motorcycle accidents. I fell in love with any kind of dope the first time I tasted Demeral after my first accident at age 21. I went to 3 rehabs back in the 80's and got clean in 1987 for 10 years. I relapsed in October of 1997 and have been using mostly prescription drugs since then. When I stopped abusing medication and street drugs last winter I was using 400+mgs per day of Oxy and supplementing my monthly presciptions with significant amounts of >>>>>>. I'm embarassed to say how much because half of you probably won't believe me, and the other half will think I'm bragging or something.

    Needless to say, I'm not new to the game. Been through withdrawl so many times I cannnot count, but this time is different because I have been continuously strung out for many many years, at a high dose, and now on Suboxone for a relatively long time. The thing about this Suboxone stuff that I want to share with you is that it is REALLY POWERFUL!!! Even a small dose packs a lot of punch! and I am as strung out on .5mgs per day as I ever was. I've experimented to see how I feel when I cut it down, and the symptoms are almost just as bad. Now again, take into account that I am almost 50 years old and am a living testament to the progression of the disease of addiction. Things DO get worse the longer you abuse drugs.

    I'm going to leave my family and hole up in our condo in FL for 1-2 weeks or as long as it takes to get it done. I'm driving from NYC to someplace just south of JAX beginning Sunday and should be in full blown withdrawl by Wednesday night. I plan to chronicle what happens next, so others will know what to expect.


    Love and Respect,

    J
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-07-2011 at 05:05 AM.

  2. #2
    tigerlily05 is offline Member
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    Default Thurs Evening 8:15pm cst

    Hi J- Woohoo for you. I will be following you as you go and rooting you this is very awesome but on your way to Fla. can you take a detour to Texas and pick me up.. lol

    I am doing the same as you, I have followed and listened to Robert and Henry through this whole thing and the support of a whole lot of other people on this forum. I am on about .25mg once a day trying to get my head straight to start skipping days and finally quit.. I have only been on subutex since 11/8/10 and its time to stop plus getting real low on pills and I am 57 yrs old. I wish I had a place that I could go to and just spend 7 days quitting the sub completely. I had been thinking about going to one of the lakes near by or go to Galveston for a week and do it, but money is tight for me and our company just sold out so not sure at this point from day to day if I will have a job but I will prevail and get this done just as I know you will also and I hope very deeply you have minimum suffering..

    So as I tell them here "Keep On Trucking" and you will be home free soon.. please keep posting and let us know how you are doing and remember you have a whole lot of people here supporting you..

    Hugs to you and your family
    Martha

  3. #3
    ammonia is offline New Member
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    Any story about detox is so powerful and inspiring to the rest of us on the same path.

  4. #4
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    Default Posts Edited?

    Thanks for the messages of support. I just noticed that an entire paragraph was missing from my initial post. Unless I did something unnoticed, I have to conclude that the post was edited by a moderator or unseen person. Does anyone else have knowledge of this happening to their posts?

    Also, I didn't mention that the reason I have to leave to do this is because I have two young children and an unsympathetic spouse. I can't let them see me like this. I've read plenty of posts from Vic Perc Oxy addicts talking about how distractions like exercise and herbal remedies have helped them...and can only conclude that either their age, habit or their bodies are very different than mine. I'm utterly incapacitated by withdrawal and can barely stand up to drag myself to the toilet 20 times per day while shivering and pouring sweat. No exaggeration. I CANNOT do it in a cold environment. Neither do Benzos or other drugs help much, my body just laughs at any attempt to ameliorate my symptoms. My experience is that it's VERY different to go withdrawal at this age than it was in my 20's or 30's. The black depression is much more powerful and the gastrointestinal symptoms are debilitating. Bile has to be the most disgusting thing imaginable. I can't believe it's inside our bodies every day.

    J

  5. #5
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    Ok I'm here. Took my last dose Monday morning. I have the usual gastro symptoms but that's it so far. I feel uneasy but nothing too bad. I'm staying in touch with friends via the phone and waiting to see how quickly things get bad. I haven't thrown the subs in the toilet yet...telling myself that jumping off from .25 every 12 hours might be too much and if so I will change to .25 every 48 hours and skip days for 4 days before throwing the subs away.

  6. #6
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiriusMoonlight View Post
    I've followed some advice on these boards, mostly from Robert, and have gotten myself down from 16mg per day (too much!!) to .5 per day in two 12 hour doses. I can go .25 per day (one dose) for two days but after that I'm in withdrawl anyway...so I may as well make the move and go to zero. I've been off the >>>>>> and oxy since last February and I don't want to go over a year on subs. As much as I've been hoping that all this tapering will make it easier, I have reason to believe that it will still be a miserable 10-20 days that has to get done sooner or later so I'm going to do it now. I've been ready to do it since November but my spouse didn't think it was convenient for me to leave her with the family responsibilities and be sick over the holidays.

    The reason I am starting this thread is that I have received much inspiration and hope from reading the stories of other addicts on this forum. A little background on me is that I have been strung out for most of my adult life on one kind of opiate or another. I have had serious pain issues associated with chronic lifelong Rheumatoid Arthritis and some serious bone fractures due to motorcycle accidents. I fell in love with any kind of dope the first time I tasted Demeral after my first accident at age 21. I went to 3 rehabs back in the 80's and got clean in 1987 for 10 years. I relapsed in October of 1997 and have been using mostly prescription drugs since then. When I stopped abusing medication and street drugs last winter I was using 400+mgs per day of Oxy and supplementing my monthly presciptions with significant amounts of >>>>>>. I'm embarassed to say how much because half of you probably won't believe me, and the other half will think I'm bragging or something.

    Needless to say, I'm not new to the game. Been through withdrawl so many times I cannnot count, but this time is different because I have been continuously strung out for many many years, at a high dose, and now on Suboxone for a relatively long time. The thing about this Suboxone stuff that I want to share with you is that it is REALLY POWERFUL!!! Even a small dose packs a lot of punch! and I am as strung out on .5mgs per day as I ever was. I've experimented to see how I feel when I cut it down, and the symptoms are almost just as bad. Now again, take into account that I am almost 50 years old and am a living testament to the progression of the disease of addiction. Things DO get worse the longer you abuse drugs.

    I'm going to leave my family and hole up in our condo in FL for 1-2 weeks or as long as it takes to get it done. I'm driving from NYC to someplace just south of JAX beginning Sunday and should be in full blown withdrawl by Wednesday night. I plan to chronicle what happens next, so others will know what to expect.


    Love and Respect,

    J



    For what it's worth it will be lots easier on you if you taper to .25mg a day and then do the day skipping process. Dose one day, skip one day. Dose one day, skip two days. Dose one day, skip three days. Dose one day, skip four days. That allows for subs really long half life. After the skipping four days it's really not that bad. I promise it will make SOOO much difference and only take two weeks to do it right.

    Let me know if I can help. God bless.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-11-2011 at 07:48 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  7. #7
    newyorkgal is offline Platinum Member
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    Sirius, I am 61 years old and have been an addict since I'm a teenager. You are entirely correct in my opinion. The older we gett, the harder it is. In my younger years, I kicked c/t numerous times. While it was no picnic, it was doable (although I always went back). At my age, I'm not so sure I can do it again. Hence, I'm a long term sub user, very low dose but big time procrastion about making the jump. I just fear it will be too unbearable at this age. For this reason, I have to agree with Robert. Make it as easy on yourself as possible. Do the skipping days thing. It will make a difference. Set yourself up to succeed. Good luck in Fla.

  8. #8
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    Sirius, how are you? Please post and let everyone know what you decided to do and how you are doing. You are an inspiration to many who are just waiting for a final push to get off subs and any other substance they feel is holding them back from living their best life. All my best to you, praying it's over soon. Marta

  9. #9
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    Thanks for the recent posts. I've had trouble with Internet access here and hope it's solved. I did taper to .25 every other day in the days before I left. My last chip was on Tuesday at 4pm after a 48 hour window. So the 72 hour half life is up soon and thus far I have mild symptoms. I'm dealing with depression by talking on the phone with people that support me and what I'm doing. I deal with stomach issues with Immodium and Tums. I deal with physical aches by taking hot water any way I can (baths, showers, jacuzzi). I'm not eating much and struggle to stay hydrated. But the list of symptoms I'm NOT experiencing (yet) is longer than the list I am. So overall this experience is VERY different than my extensive experience with withdrawal. However, I am under no illusion that I have experienced the full effects yet.

  10. #10
    newyorkgal is offline Platinum Member
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    Don't worry about what MIGHT happen. Anticipating bad things plays witth your mind. Many have not suffered severe w/d. There are more success stories on here than horror stories. Look at those threads. While no one can predict the future or the next few days even, it might not be as bad as you fear and fear is always an enemy of getting clean. Keep up the good work !

  11. #11
    SeekinSober is offline Member
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    Also, don't forget that Suboxone is a partial agonist opiate, and that the withdrawal is not going to be as severe as the full agonist detoxes you've been through before.

    I think you're going to be fine. Not perfect mind you, but not debilitated either.

  12. #12
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    So far it is very different than the past. Big difference is not getting hit all at once. Slowly seems to be more manageable. I flushed all Subox this morning (I moved it to the bathroom yesterday). Trazadone has worked as a sleep aid but I don't like it so I only use it every couple days. I never slept much when I was using anyway. My only Internet access is via my iPhone and 3G service is spotty here. Overall = so far so good one day at a time. If being a non agonist opiate means I'm not going to sweat and puke then I'm all for it but I'm not counting any chickens yet. I'm gathering eggs.

  13. #13
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    I'm now in day 7. Other than not sleeping, nervous anxiety, various stomach symptoms, I'm doing well. Better than expected (feared). The worst symptoms have been largely absent and my body temp has remained neutral. I'm looking to head home by next week if I start sleeping a reasonable amount. I hope my blurry vision subsides so I can make the drive more safely.

  14. #14
    noneed99 is offline Junior Member
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    Sirius,

    im 27, 2nd time kicking percocet but this time i was prescribed suboxone. The first time i went through what i have now but it was over in 3-7 days. And my body temperature wasnt as bad. But i think i was experiencing PAWS and started marijuana to sooth it, and slowly got back on percocet because i didnt know that was my problem.. i jus thought i was lazy and didnt want to do anything. I was clean for 6 months. Anyway i decided to stop percs again, but when i did i got so sick and my fever ran so high that i didnt know what to do and ended up getting suboxone from one of the only doctors in the area that are certified. I felt great since first day taking sub and been weaning at my own discretion as the doctor says thats the way to do it. Its 2 years and for the last 6 i was taking 1 mg per morning. 10 days ago i stopped cold turkey because i didnt think the sub was really doing that much... i felt i could skip mornings even. I actually expected the withdrawals to be milder than from the percocet the first time.. and also expected it to last just a bit longer. But its so different because its all spaced out and spread out ... and its day 10 and i started feeling worse starting day 8 than i did prior. BUT in the first 3 days my system seemed to start to work again.. i could feel and taste like i havent since i was a child. Heck i couldnt smell too well on the sub and i smoked marijuana all throiugh sub and think the reason is cus i always had small withdrawal symptoms even tapering down on the sub.. i just attributed it to other things since i was numbed by the sub. Now its like O M G i can feel and i dont like it because i have a fever and feel bad. But before day 8 i had no fever and had body chills and goosebumps and more emotional issues ... really wanted to kill myself the 2nd day without subs, even stopped smoking for the next few because the intensity of the emotional issues get so much stronger on the marijuana.. thogh the body issues fade. Now with the fever i dont get bad emotional problems but my body is aching.. the marijuana helps.. just like it would a cancer patient.. it is like natural tylenol for your body lol. NOT ADVOCATING SMOKING MARIJUANA IF YOU DID NOT IN THE PAST, that is different. I dont want to take any pills to help me along right now.. and i really dont know whether i should go on .25mg doses of sub and do the rapid taper thing skipping days... or whether i should tuff it out from here. I measured my temperature this morning and just like yesterday in the morning its 37.2 celcius, and 36.5-8 is normal. But when i stopped percocet my temperature was like almost 39 and thats like 103 f... so i guess the subs did help.. which is why i really want to stay with the cold turkey...

    and yes its so cold outside, its freezing... i take hot showers but then after 30 mins they dont do anything and my fever returns... and when i have the fever i dont want to take a hot shower... i just want to jump out of my skin.

    Only thing im weary of is that the posts i read about people cold turkey and making it dont have much info about fevers during their withdrawal... but they also went to a lower dose than me before they cold turkeyed.

    Anyone out there who had a mild fever constantly from day 8 or around there.. and whether it went away or you had to take low doses to fix it?
    Last edited by Anonymous; 02-01-2011 at 01:49 PM.

  15. #15
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    Hi Everyone,

    Today is day 23 and I am done. Other than an occasional chill that runs down my entire body every 6-12 hours to remind me...no other symptoms. It took my 4 days to drive back from FL due to weather. I have to say that the entire experience from beginning to end was milder than I expected. My fear was based on the precipitated withdrawl I went through while being inducted onto Suboxone (off 400mg per day of Oxy plus >>>>>>). THAT WAS SCARY, but since then it has been OK. In retrospect I wish I had tapered a little more quickly but at this point in my life I feel like Suboxone saved me from another year in hell and probably saved my marriage and my family. I'm going to say some things that are strictly my experience and you can take it or leave it as you wish. Make DAMN SURE you are really in withdrawl with a solid 28 on that COWS scale before you start. This is the single most critical stage of the treatment. Many people give up on Suboxone because they don't wait long enough to take the first dose. Take the small dose first and then JUST WAIT FOR IT!!! Use the experience of the people on this board to help you get inducted right. Go to your doc for the script but listen to Robert when it comes to the dose and schedule (BTW I didn't find this board until last Sept when I was already on 3mg per day). Don't worry about getting an exact dose when you start breaking them up below 2mg...this stuff has such a long half life if you feel any different it is your MIND playing tricks on you. Don't be afraid to take the final step and get completely opiate free. YOU CAN DO IT...I PROMISE!!! When I was taking Suboxone I thought I needed it more than I did. As I stated earlier it took me three days just to get into withdrawl and now that it is over all I can say is...it wasn't that big a deal. I ate through the entire experience (actually gained 7 lbs from lying around all day) my bowels gave me trouble, but if you are a long term opiate user your bowels give you trouble anyway. I used a non-narcotic anti depressant called Trazodone and it did a great job. It helped get me back to normal as much as anything and the side effects at low doses are sleepiness, anti-diarreal and anti depressant so it is good for what ails ya in those important areas.

    Today I am clean for the first time in 13 years. I go to a noon meeting of AA or NA every day. I have a sponsor with over 20 years clean, I am trying to apply the first three steps in my daily life and I learned that I don't need to define God to believe in a power greater than myself. For now that power is one addict helping another and that's all I need. With the help I found on these boards and among my fellow addicts in the rooms I believe I can stay clean one day at a time. I want to thank those of you who responded to my posts and who shared their experiences in their own threads for helping me through this time in my life. I'm so grateful for that help and I want to try to help anyone else who is ready to kick. So who's NEXT?!!!!!

    -J

  16. #16
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    J ...... Proud of you my friend! You did this with very little direction, all you did was follow the basic suggestions. You saw they worked and that was all you needed for the most part. Now you are involved in recovery strengthening your foundation even more.

    I always like to see success stories, especially those who don't stop just when they get clean. You're doing the things necessary to STAY clean. Keep us posted how you progress. And share around the forum about your success.

    There are new people showing up here daily who need to hear from people like you probably more than me. It means a lot hearing from someone that just did everything as advised and succeeded. Good luck to you in your new life clean and God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

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