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Suboxone Help Please...Suicidal Thougts!
  1. #1
    madamesprinkles is offline New Member
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    Default Suboxone Help Please...Suicidal Thougts!

    Hello everyone, I am new to posting here but have been reading the boards for quite some time now. I will give you my history and hopefully someone can help me.

    I started taking Percocet 10/325mg, 3X day for pain about 2 years ago and have gradually had my doses increased from month to month. For the past year, I have been prescribed (2) 30mg oxycodone IR up to 4 times a day as needed for pain (up to 240 mg daily). I would get my bottle of 240 oxycodone every month but I would be out of meds before the month was up because I was taking 3 or 4 at a time instead of only 2 as prescribed. Every month I was running out sooner and sooner until the last 2-3 months I was running out in only 2 weeks and had to "find" them in other ways that I care not to disclose. The reason I was on such a high dose is because I told the doctor I was not getting pain relief but the truth is that I loved the way it made me feel and I very quickly became addicted and started abusing them. My average daily intake was about 400-500 mg, sometimes more, sometimes less. I am being honest about my use/abuse because otherwise I cannot get help for my addiction. I have nearly overdosed numerous times and am lucky to still be alive to write this post. In the past few months I have even tried the "street equivelant" of oxy, if you know what I mean because I could not get any Oxy. When I think of this now, it makes my heart race thinking of how I put myself in such a life-threatening situation but that is what addiction will do to you. This addiction has cost me a lot. I lost my business and am about to lose my marriage soon if things don't change.


    Fast Forward........ Last week when I ran out of oxy I went to get some of the "street equivelant" before I even tried to get some oxy because I knew it was cheaper and I liked the way it made me feel. While on my way to get it I had an epiphany, "I am a JUNKIE! I am on a oone way elevator to hell and it is going down so fast that I will die if I don't get off now". I turned my car around, went back home and decided I was done. I decided that I was done with this madness and wanted my life back so I just stopped taking them and did not go out and try to "find" any more and I wanted to just completely stop taking them forever. This was easier said than done because after the first day without them I started having severe withdrawal. This was the first time I had went for more than 12 hours without it in my system for almost 2 years so I had no idea what withdrawal even felt like but I quickly found out.

    I called a friend and confided in her and suggested I get some help. The funny thing is I was making a confession about my drug abuse and she already knew. She said it was obvious but didn't want to butt in. I actually thought I had her fooled and others for that matter but boy was I wrong. I was the only one who was fooled. I went the next day to a local Methadone/Suboxone center and they gave me a prescription for Suboxone sublingual films, 8mg X 2 daily. It was amazing how quick it worked, within 30 minutes of putting it under my tongue, I was out of withdrawal! I could not believe it and was so happy I made the choice. I was no longer craving them and no withdrawal. I thought I had found something to save my life. The doctor said I would be on them at least a year but may need them the rest of my life to stay clean.

    I have been on Suboxone now for 5 days and since yesterday I have started to feel very suicidal. When I close my eyes, I can envision myself driving off a cliff or blowing my brains out. I am 42 years old and have NEVER, ever had a suicidal thought in my life. I spent most of yesterday crying and totally agitated with my husband. Today it is a little better but I am still having thoughts of suicide. I am really concerned that it may progress into actions instead of just thoughts and I am scared. I think it is the Suboxone because it did not start until a few days ago, right after I started taking the Suboxone.

    Maybe I need a stronger dose. I have a follow-up appt with the doctor on Tuesday to see if I need more or if 16mg a day is enough. He said he can increase it to 32mg a day if I need it but I don't want to take more if it is going to make these thoughts worse. The truth is that I really want to be clean and sober. My new prescription of Oxy is ready and waiting for me to pick up at the doctors office but I don't want to go get it, I want to get off this rollercoaster and get my life back.

    If anyone has any insight I would appreciate it.

  2. #2
    Anonymous Guest

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    HI Madam
    I'm on my way out the door, but seen your post and wanted to reply...16 mg is a pretty high dose...not to sure why you are thinking the way you are.but when we are on drugs for awhile are endorphins stop working and i dint think your have started back up...
    My husband is not home right now, but I would love for you to talk to him about this when he gets home from church later today !!!
    I do understand what you are going thru !!!
    talk to you soon, Melinda

  3. #3
    Anonymous Guest

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    Hi madamesprinkles...so glad you found this forum and were not afraid to reach out for help!

    Hopefully, Robert or Henry will be along soon to help you figure out the correct Sub dose for you! When they do, listen to them and trust them...they will not steer you wrong.

    Listen, I did the very same thing in early April. I tried to come off Subs too fast and threw myself into withdrawal. Had some bad depression/anxiety with it....I would have those same "what if" thoughts about dying that you are having! They came out of nowhere and I couldn't help it. It is very painful and I understand completely how you are feeling. I was not as courageous as you and did not post about it..I was too embarrassed. I am so glad that you "reached out". It made me be able to say that yes, I had the same thoughts.

    You are not going crazy and your are not suicidal....it is frightening to have thoughts that you can't seem to shake but they are only that....JUST THOUGHTS...and thoughts cannot harm you. It is a symptom of anxiety right now and the anxiety is normal when in withdrawal.

    You are in withdrawal..the Sub is masking it. It is a partial agonist and works very well at hiding your withdrawal symptoms as you have found out. Seems like you are having some breakthrough anxiety. I don't know that more Sub is the answer...too much Sub can cause anxiety too. Robert will be along shortly and be able to help you.

    Melinda is right...you are having issues with your brain not producing endorphins. Your brain has not had to do that for itself the whole time you have been on Oxys and since the Sub is a "partial" agonist, it does not fill the whole receptor and allows for your brain to start producting some of its own endorphins again (That is how Sub works in helping to heal our addiction). Since you are ONLY 5 days in....your brain is having trouble jumpstarting! Please do not worry...it WILL. It's just a little slow right now because it has not had to do this for itself in several years.

    Some things I did that help:

    1 - WALK....go outside and walk, walk, walk. Nothing gets the brain to creating the endorphins like exercise. Look around you as you're walking...appreciate all the beauty you see around you...be thankful for all of your blessings and repeat to yourself while you're walking all the things you have in life to be thankful for.

    2 - Drink lots of water...our brains are something like 98% water..when we are stressed, we dehydrate so give your brain the water it needs!

    3- Take a good vitamin or Superfood supplement (available at health food stores) plus Omega3 capsules and Flaxseed Oil Capsules...very good for the brain. I also take a B-12 complex, magnesium/potassium capsule and probiotics.
    Other people here can tell you what supplements help them thru this time OR you can go to a vitamin specialty shop and tell them that you wish to battle anxiety/depression naturally through vitamins/supplements and their trained personnell can point out some things that can help. There is also a good book about managing depression through diet that I have...I'll report back with the title.

    Here is a link that is most helpful:
    http://www.naturalnews.com/020611.html

    I am researching the whole, raw foods diet, as well . A great website that gives lots of info and is easy to read is:

    http://www.greensmoothiegirl.com/

    The steps taught at greensmoothiegirl are really interesting to me as I believe we ARE what we put into our bodies and I, for far too long, have not been kind to my body.
    I have been reading her site for a couple of days and broaching the subject with my family about us encorporating some of her tips into our diet gradually.

    This is a stressful time. Anything you can do for relaxation is good and will battle the anxiety/depression. Again, do the walking but look into yoga, meditaion, even reading and taking up a new hobby can help.
    Anything that can create a sense of well-being creates endorphins! I noticed that at some of my worst times, that just the simple act of talking with someone about it and touching someone else, would produce an elevated mood in me in a matter of minutes...I could tell I was producing those endorphins again!

    Madame, I'm sorry you are going through this but it is necessary to our being clean. We don't get to recovery free and clear of ANY withdrawal. Sometimes, we will feel emotions we've never felt before, we will feel physical withdrawal, we will have to face things that were swept under the rug during our active addictions.

    Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE who has reached the other side, will tell you that yes, they experienced most everything that you are but most importantly...IT IS WORTH IT.

    You are on the road to recovery. It's going to be bumpy at times. There are a great group of people here who will be happy to support you on the way. A lot of us are over 40...so we understand being over 40 and battling addiction. That was one of the greatest joys for me in discovering this forum, is that there were people my age going through this with me! I had felt very alone in this before.

  4. #4
    newyorkgal is offline Platinum Member
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    Personally, I believe you are on too high a dose of sub. People don't realize how strong it is and in higher doses it causes anxiety. I started on 16 after a 30 year addiction, mostly to methadone. I was miserable, jittery, couldn't sleep. It was not until I got down to a reasonable dose, which is probably no more than 8 a day to start, that I started to feel more normal. Robert has a good plan with subs. Doctors do not. They are not knowledgeable when it comes to sub, having to only take an 8 hour online course to be able to give it. Of course, it's in their interest to keep you on a high dose for a long time. They make lots of money. I truly believe if you lowered your dose at least by half, you would feel so much better. Wait for Robert to get back or Henry to come on. They will steer you in the right direction.

  5. #5
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    madamesprinkles ...... I have been at church and just got home or I would have replied sooner. First let me tell you that I used for 35 years and for the last several years I was taking 1000mg a day of IR 30mg Roxis. All together I was taking over 100 pills a day of assorted opiates, benzos, soma, my drug of choice was MORE!!! So I know where you are coming from. But I've been clean now 9 years and my process works if you will do exactly as I tell you.

    I got on subs, though I had no advice or real support at the time by anyone that knew anything. I chronicled exactly what I did and still use that exact same process years later working with others. My dr that I had then now uses my sub therapy protocol for his patients and he is the chief of staff at the hospital I was checked into. He was an open-minded smart dr who was willing to listen. We still talk and he asks me questions about tapering patients still. He has actually gotten on this forum with me and read the posts so he knows what we do and loves it. I know how to do this to make a long story short.

    Taking 16mg is what most all sub drs prescribe and in error I might add. That is entirely too much suboxone for anyone. If I told you what to do to start over and do this right would you have enough faith to listen to me and do what I said no matter what if I PROMISED you that it would work and that I am right? That is the only way I could really help you if you agreed to follow the instructions to the letter. You should not be having suicidal thoughts on suboxone. Almost sounds like you got inducted improperly and put into precipitated w/d which you haven't recovered from yet. And the stupid dr will undoubtedly tell you to take more subs trying to over-ride the symptoms which is the absolute wrong thing to do. He will have you in worse shape than you are now. This is where the suboxone horror stories come from, stupid drs that take patients and mess their minds up with you being innocent and the victim.

    My way would be a little uncomfortable at first to get you out of where you are mentally currently. But in the long run I can help you if you will let me. But I need to have your word that you will cooperate totally in order for me to help you the right way. God bless.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 05-22-2011 at 02:03 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  6. #6
    madamesprinkles is offline New Member
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    Thank you to everyone for your replies. Yes Robert, I will do whatever it takes to get and stay sober. A little discomfort is the least of my worries. I choose to live and be free from the chains of addiction that have bound me for almost 2 years now. I am committed and will do whatever it takes because I am not looking for a quick fix but rather a permanent solution.

    Since yesterday I have not had any more suicidal thoughts or ideations so I am hoping that part is over with. To be honest with you, I haven't felt this good in years and I am happy I made the choice of Suboxone. However, I do not want to be on such a high dose if it is not nessesary. At 16mg a day, it will cost me about $600 a month so if I can reduce the dosage, that would be great for me financially as well.

    I look forward to your reply to tell me how to proceed. Thanks again to everyone.

  7. #7
    madamesprinkles is offline New Member
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    I forgot to mention this Robert but I was in full withdrawal when I took the first dose of Sub and I had not used in over 36 hours. I scored 41 on the chart the doctor used in the office which is the same one you all have a link to on here I think. Within 15 minutes of putting the film under my tongue, ALL of my withdrawal symptoms were gone and I felt like a million dollars. It was almost surreal, like I was waking up from a nightmare. So, I don't think I was improperly inducted. The suicidal thoughts did not start until a few days later and only lasted a day or so.

    Just FYI.

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    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by madamesprinkles View Post
    I forgot to mention this Robert but I was in full withdrawal when I took the first dose of Sub and I had not used in over 36 hours. I scored 41 on the chart the doctor used in the office which is the same one you all have a link to on here I think. Within 15 minutes of putting the film under my tongue, ALL of my withdrawal symptoms were gone and I felt like a million dollars. It was almost surreal, like I was waking up from a nightmare. So, I don't think I was improperly inducted. The suicidal thoughts did not start until a few days later and only lasted a day or so.

    Just FYI.



    You were inducted improperly or you would be on a dose of about 3-4 mg. NO ONE needs 16mg, I don't care what the silly sub dr says. This is how sub horror stories get started.

    Here is the link to how Ive done this here for years. Inducted a guy last night on 3mg and he is no different than you. You need to drop that dose down to 12mg immediately and plan on dropping it again after a 3-4 day to 9mg, tapering 25% every four days until we get you down to a reasonable dose. 16mg will cause you problems I guarantee you. God bless.

    https://www.drugs.com/forum/featured...-new-post.html
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  9. #9
    dgwohl is offline New Member
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    Default What is that link to the sub taper?

    Hi Robert, I'm looking for an exit myself for the suboxone nightmare and agree that the Doctors have no idea what they're saying. I'd like to try your suggestion (I'm sure it beats using vics or oxys to try to get off subs, which I know is just the wrong way), but every time I click on the link it directs me to the this page.

    Thank you!!!

    Dennis

  10. #10
    dgwohl is offline New Member
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    Default I found it!!!

    Thank you!

    d

  11. #11
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgwohl View Post
    Hi Robert, I'm looking for an exit myself for the suboxone nightmare and agree that the Doctors have no idea what they're saying. I'd like to try your suggestion (I'm sure it beats using vics or oxys to try to get off subs, which I know is just the wrong way), but every time I click on the link it directs me to the this page.

    Thank you!!!

    Dennis



    Sorry I gave you the wrong link. Here it is.

    https://www.drugs.com/forum/featured...apy-50887.html
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  12. #12
    tx8jbb is offline New Member
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    The brain stops making dopamine when a person starts taking Suboxone. That's why people get depressed and suicidal. The brain receives a signal to stop dopamine production because Suboxone provides the effect of dopamine artificially. When you stop taking the Suboxone its the absence of dopamine which makes you feel like dying. You simply can't live a quality life in that state. It takes time for the body to start producing its own supply again. But it will eventually. It took me 3 months for my dopamine to return to normal. My doctor put me on Wellbuterin 150mg daily to combat the depression. It also assisted in the dopamine production. Took around 1 month for it to help. Now after 4 months I'm off Suboxone completely. Amen. Praise God! I can't say enough about prayer during this ordeal. It gave me hope when there was none. Don't discount this piece of the puzzle. God exists. I know because He helped me. Also I had a Benzo for occasional panic attacks. Trazadone to help me sleep. and Clonadine 10mg to help with anxiety. I ate only fruit, vegetables and cereal. No meat, coffee, soy products. These food deplete dopamine. You want foods that will help raise it. Arm yourself! Get what you need. It's a 4 month war. But a war you can definitely win. Stay away from naysayers. There's plenty of opinions out there about failure. That's them not you! Don't read the blogs.

  13. #13
    marcus8357 is offline New Member
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    I was on sub's for over 2 miserable years. It is absolutely accurate that one would have suicidal thoughts. Naloxone attaches too your opiate receptors and block your natural pain/pleasure centers from working. You essentially feel no joy at all and lots of depression. Sub's are absolutely evil and I'm happy too be off them. I transitioned too >>>>>> to get off them. Try and taper off them. Good luck!

  14. #14
    Missymayor is offline New Member
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    This is my first post. I have survived a year of hell. I got two pulmonary embolism last year. To my left lung and one through my heart and into my lung. My right leg kept throwing DVT'S. Everyone thought it was because of a simple meniscus tear knee surgery so the doctor's all focused on my right knee. I was in extraordinary pain. I could barley walk. Long story short I kept telling all the doctor's something else was wrong and I was so depressed I just wanted death to escape the pain. Finally May 30th a huge tumor was found behind my shin bone right lower leg. It was growing around my Femoral nerve and crushing my Femoral artery. No one was brave enough to remove it. I was put onto higher doses of Oxycotin 80mg a day and 34mg of Dilaudid a day. Doctor's from UCSF San Francisco took on the huge challenge on July 31st this year and cut out the 6.3"x3.2" tumor from my lower right leg. God spared me my leg that I signed a release to amputate if necessary and thank God I woke up pain free and able to move my toes again the first time since last September. I went cold turkey Saturday September 12th from the Oxycotin and Dilaudid. After 48 hours yesterday morning I was given my first dose of Suboxone 8mg 1x a day. This morning was my second dose. Should I cut this in half and get off it ASAP? I'm so scared and these past days of vomiting,diarrhea,sweating, freezing and hallucinations and massive headaches have left me exhausted. I just don't want to have to go through hell all over to get off Suboxone. Please tell me your opinions on what course to take. Sincerely Missymayor
    Last edited by Anonymous; 09-17-2015 at 03:16 AM.

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