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Want off Suboxone
  1. #361
    pattycakes is offline Member
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    Angry God is testing me.

    Quote Originally Posted by pattycakes View Post
    NoMoreSubs - you're in good hands w/Robert. I'm definitely not an angel, but learning to get high on life itself, not subs.
    Had an okay night of rest. Still battling a terrible toothache. You would think that after 4-5 weeks, $1,200 for the crown & $1,800 for other work I would NOT have a toothache. Going to see dentist again today @ 1:00, wish me luck. I don't know how much Motrin & Tylenol a person can live off of. Otherwise, I got up with an abundance of energy! Lasted about 2 hours & now a little foggy. I'm getting ready to go to my ladies bowling league this a.m., hopefully get some endorphins going. I'm counting my blessings for this taper & support. My last tiny dose of subs. was Monday a.m. My husband looked at the tiny pieces I was thinking was .25, & told me it was only 1/2 of that amount. So I've been little taking a sliver of about .125. Checked it out, & he is right. Depending on today, I might be done with it all! I'm feeling like I don't ever want to feel that sub. feeling again. It is so artificial. Will let ya'll know. Take care & everyone stay strong, it can be done. Patty
    My dentist has done me so wrong! Over 5 weeks of pain & misery, thousands of dollars. I was in his chair for 2 hours today w/tears running down my face. He did 3 more fillings & scraped under my gums. Then had the nerve to send me to another town immediately for a root canal on the tooth he just put a permanent crown on, a week ago. Another thousand $$ & 2 more hours getting a root canal in another chair & was told I had to go back to the 1st dentist & get a filling on the crown, are you KIDDING me!!!
    This is my 3rd day skipping and the anxiety ebbs & flows. My knees were literally shaking in that dentist's chair. The endodentist was not happy w/me refusing pain medication. He said between my gums bleeding & all the work w/the root canal that I would be up all night. I told him I had issues before w/pain medicine for many years & he pretty much didn't want to hear it. He gave my husband a prescription for Tylenol #3 & told him it was only codeine & he only wrote enough for 2 days. My husband has it, and no, we did NOT get it filled. My husband is filled with guilt because he knows how much suffering I'm going through w/this taper & all the tooth pain. So for now it's 3 motrin & 2 tylenol - 4 times a day. I'm mentally & physcially exhausted with everything. No I'm not going to give in, just please say some prayers & mention my name, please.
    Hope everyone is hanging on tight & they stay healthy. Remember to floss. Thanks for letting me vent. I'm so ready for some rest tonight. Wish me well & back at everyone.

  2. #362
    valleylg is offline Junior Member
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    Patty I am so sorry to hear what you are going through. I am reminded of one of my favorite verses in the bible that says (paraphrsed) weeping comes in the night but Joy comes in the morning!!! I pray that joy comes to you. I am in awe of your strength by not taking any pain meds at the dentist. God never and I mean never gives us more than we can handle. In just a short time you will look back at the storm and realize how strong you have become. I told my wife this morning what you are going though and we both stopped what we were doing and prayed that God would give you strength and joy through this trail. Know that you are not going through this alone you have people praying and thinking about you often. Looking forward to reading your post when you have come through this!!!

  3. #363
    pattycakes is offline Member
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    Default I hear you.

    Quote Originally Posted by valleylg View Post
    Patty I am so sorry to hear what you are going through. I am reminded of one of my favorite verses in the bible that says (paraphrsed) weeping comes in the night but Joy comes in the morning!!! I pray that joy comes to you. I am in awe of your strength by not taking any pain meds at the dentist. God never and I mean never gives us more than we can handle. In just a short time you will look back at the storm and realize how strong you have become. I told my wife this morning what you are going though and we both stopped what we were doing and prayed that God would give you strength and joy through this trail. Know that you are not going through this alone you have people praying and thinking about you often. Looking forward to reading your post when you have come through this!!!
    Valleylg & Wife - Thank you so much for thoughts & prayers. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. You are so right, the storm is always louder & scarier at night. The morning always seems so much calmer for me. At least the first couple of hours. Then my husband leaves for work & I get in a little panic mode. I have to really change my daily habits & find something to do. It's been many years of disability, pain & loneliness, my couch has my body imprinted in it for life. Maybe I need a new couch? LOL Really though, knowing you care & share some of the same feelings & stresses & aches & all the w/d symptoms, helps. I know that sounds selfish of me to know someone else is suffering through this with me & get comfort from it. I think you know what I mean. I would never wish this process on anyone. You too will beat this devil. Our spouses play such an important role in our recovery, & it sounds like you have a great wife. I too am blessed w/ a great husband. Again, thank you, I really needed some reinforcement today. I will not take any more suboxone, but just because I have a strong resolve & I KNOW I will not, doesn't take away the roller coaster ride. I do think the peaks & valleys are getting smaller. Baby steps! Hold on tight, it is a wild & sometimes crazy ride. Try to gave a great day, I will be praying & thinking of you. Patty

  4. #364
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    Hi Patty
    so sorry to hear about your dentist...that is just awful !!!
    when I had a year clean I had to have a hysterectomy and they mest up and had to have tubes put in me and they were falling out. It was a nightmare, so I was taking pain pills to get thru it, I was working at the time I had a cleaning business but it started the nightmare all over again... so good for you not taking anything
    it was hard getting clean again...
    but if we really want it we can get there !!!
    proud of you !!!
    Melinda

  5. #365
    pattycakes is offline Member
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    Wink Hey Melinda!

    Quote Originally Posted by melinda7.5 View Post
    Hi Patty
    so sorry to hear about your dentist...that is just awful !!!
    when I had a year clean I had to have a hysterectomy and they mest up and had to have tubes put in me and they were falling out. It was a nightmare, so I was taking pain pills to get thru it, I was working at the time I had a cleaning business but it started the nightmare all over again... so good for you not taking anything
    it was hard getting clean again...
    but if we really want it we can get there !!!
    proud of you !!!
    Melinda
    So nice to hear from you! You & Robert must have been heaven sent. I thank God for ya'lls support everyday @ least once. I realize we all have our trials & tribulations, but sometimes it just doesn't seem fair. I'm over the pity party & I think sometimes we need that emotional release. I am concerned about future surgeries & pain mgmnt. Seeing how you have already been there & done that, Does it necessarily mean that if you have to be on pain meds for a few days that you will immediately relapse? I have another slipped disc in my neck, already have 3 fused discs w/titanium plate & screws. The surgeon wants to wait until the disc totally blows, because once I have that surgery, my range of motion in the neck is going to be very limited. All of those previous surgeries are what let to my dependence. Am kind of mad that the suboxone was even introduced. I was taking 4-6 hydrocodone per day, as prescribed, & Soma 2 to 3 X a day as prescribed. I didn't abuse my dosages, but I was on them for several years. Then all of a sudden, they decide that I should go to pain mgmnt., & BAM here comes the suboxone. I wasn't in denial, I fully admit that my body craved the drugs, but, my goodness, they made me feel like I was a lower form of life & dragged out of a gutter somewhere. (No offense to anyone). 2 & 1/2 yrs later, with no encouragement from the pain Dr., I tapered myself. I'm done. I know this is just day 4 with no Subs., but I am done. I see him next week, & I'm not sure what to say to him. I have also been on Ambien 10mg every night for at least 7 yrs. Yes, 7 years. Next drug to go. Obviously sleep is vitally important through the w/d. Any recommendations on getting off of the Ambien?
    Boy, I'm rambling again. Thanks Melinda for all the help, support & caring you guys do. It means so much to all of us. You not only talk the talk, but you walk the walk. God bless you all.
    As for the dental mess, the Tylenol & Motrin do help. Will not fill the script for Tylenol #3. I'm not that crazy. Day 4 with no subs. is pretty much like day 3. The mental game is very challenging, but, I have always been very competitive. I like to win. Talk to ya'll later. Need to get some sunshine! Patty

  6. #366
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    Hi Patty
    I want to think if my hysterectomy went well and I was only on pain pills while i was in the hospital I would have been OK, buy that is not what happened and my dependence is so high..It is very dangerous for me to take anything it just grabs a hold of me...
    I bet you were Pissed when you found out what sub were..you were not on a high dose you could have gone c/t in just a few days...
    I could not say if you would relapse, if you had surgery, you should like you were very responsible with your pills...
    I have some pain issues I have fibro and DDD..I know it is know fun, my sister has had many surgery's on her back and like you has limited movement so it has always scared me to have the surgery done...
    I still take Ambien I have quit it before but I really have sleep issues, but when I did quit it it was not that hard I slept the first night I quit only a couple hours but I did sleep...I had a sleep meditation Cd on my I-pod I listen to, I think it helped me go to sleep ...
    One of my Good friends from this forum just went into rehab for subs and he said he was thru the worst by day Seven...with the half life of Subs I think day 4 would be the worst and then things should start get better...
    Patty if there is anything I can do to help just let me know.
    talk to you soon, Melinda

  7. #367
    pattycakes is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by melinda7.5 View Post
    Hi Patty
    I want to think if my hysterectomy went well and I was only on pain pills while i was in the hospital I would have been OK, buy that is not what happened and my dependence is so high..It is very dangerous for me to take anything it just grabs a hold of me...
    I bet you were Pissed when you found out what sub were..you were not on a high dose you could have gone c/t in just a few days...
    I could not say if you would relapse, if you had surgery, you should like you were very responsible with your pills...
    I have some pain issues I have fibro and DDD..I know it is know fun, my sister has had many surgery's on her back and like you has limited movement so it has always scared me to have the surgery done...
    I still take Ambien I have quit it before but I really have sleep issues, but when I did quit it it was not that hard I slept the first night I quit only a couple hours but I did sleep...I had a sleep meditation Cd on my I-pod I listen to, I think it helped me go to sleep ...
    One of my Good friends from this forum just went into rehab for subs and he said he was thru the worst by day Seven...with the half life of Subs I think day 4 would be the worst and then things should start get better...
    Patty if there is anything I can do to help just let me know.
    talk to you soon, Melinda
    Hey Melinda,
    Wow, you sound like you have definitely paid your dues. I also have Fibro, DDD, severe immune deficiency, arthritis, & obviously, the neck issues. We are too young to be so old. LOL
    I think learning to accept our disabilities & limitations is part of the battle. We are who we are. The sleep issues are real & suck. So maybe if Ambien helps give us the rest we need to ensure a better quality of life each day, it shouldn't be taboo. I do get angry when a doctor that doesn't know me from Eve, tries to tell me how I feel & what I do or do not need. Are muscle relaxers so bad when your neck & shoulders are hard as rocks & your head locks up & you have shooting pains? I wish some of these doctors could live in our bodies for just one week (even less).
    I appreciate the input on your friends, sub. w/d.. Just the little bit of clarity I've already had, makes this difficult journey worth traveling. I know it will get so much better. Yeah, it is hard at times, & it really stinks that we have to suffer so. Just makes me madder & more determined! I do take responsibility for my choices, but, I haven't always made the best decisions. It's a learning process.

    Anyway, thanks for sharing. Sounds like we have alot in common, & God knows we can all use more friends. Going to go for a walk w/ my Mom. Take care & talk to you soon. Patty

  8. #368
    pattycakes is offline Member
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    Default Day 5 Without Subs.

    Quote Originally Posted by pattycakes View Post
    Hey Melinda,
    Wow, you sound like you have definitely paid your dues. I also have Fibro, DDD, severe immune deficiency, arthritis, & obviously, the neck issues. We are too young to be so old. LOL
    I think learning to accept our disabilities & limitations is part of the battle. We are who we are. The sleep issues are real & suck. So maybe if Ambien helps give us the rest we need to ensure a better quality of life each day, it shouldn't be taboo. I do get angry when a doctor that doesn't know me from Eve, tries to tell me how I feel & what I do or do not need. Are muscle relaxers so bad when your neck & shoulders are hard as rocks & your head locks up & you have shooting pains? I wish some of these doctors could live in our bodies for just one week (even less).
    I appreciate the input on your friends, sub. w/d.. Just the little bit of clarity I've already had, makes this difficult journey worth traveling. I know it will get so much better. Yeah, it is hard at times, & it really stinks that we have to suffer so. Just makes me madder & more determined! I do take responsibility for my choices, but, I haven't always made the best decisions. It's a learning process.

    Anyway, thanks for sharing. Sounds like we have alot in common, & God knows we can all use more friends. Going to go for a walk w/ my Mom. Take care & talk to you soon. Patty
    Day 5 - Started off really great. About 2 hours after getting up, get a little antsy. Don't know what to do with myself. Try to talk it out, or stand under the hot shower. Works for me. Already feel better & trying to make plans for rest of weekend. Still feel strong & determined that my sub days are over, however, I am still feeling some mild w/d. Don't want to overthink it, overall, much better than being on it. Just wanted to share. I am hoping my anxiety levels go down. Haven't taken anything for that.. Hoping that too will fade w/each passing day. I can almost smell this drug seeping from my pores. I meant to mention that earlier. The perspiration/sweating definitely has a medicinal odor to it. Feeling some restlessness/electricity in my arms.
    On a better note, it is a new day & we need to embrace it. Hope everyone has a great day. Patty

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by pattycakes View Post
    Day 5 - Started off really great. About 2 hours after getting up, get a little antsy. Don't know what to do with myself. Try to talk it out, or stand under the hot shower. Works for me. Already feel better & trying to make plans for rest of weekend. Still feel strong & determined that my sub days are over, however, I am still feeling some mild w/d. Don't want to overthink it, overall, much better than being on it. Just wanted to share. I am hoping my anxiety levels go down. Haven't taken anything for that.. Hoping that too will fade w/each passing day. I can almost smell this drug seeping from my pores. I meant to mention that earlier. The perspiration/sweating definitely has a medicinal odor to it. Feeling some restlessness/electricity in my arms.
    On a better note, it is a new day & we need to embrace it. Hope everyone has a great day. Patty
    Hi Patty
    So many people talk about smelling the drugs coming out of there skin, I for one did...the Anxiety will fade it just takes a little time..you are doing everything you are suppose to do...your body is healing just keep that in your thoughts...

  10. #370
    pattycakes is offline Member
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by melinda7.5 View Post
    Hi Patty
    So many people talk about smelling the drugs coming out of there skin, I for one did...the Anxiety will fade it just takes a little time..you are doing everything you are suppose to do...your body is healing just keep that in your thoughts...
    Dear Melinda,

    Appreciate the post. I thought I was probably not alone w/the "smell". Am feeling better. Going to grab my husband & go out to lunch.

    Hope Robert is doing okay. I see he had a couple "uncomfortable" posts. You & Robert have been the difference in my journey & recovery. Don't let anyone discredit the time & dedication you two give unselfishly to others. It is greatly appreciated! Time is one of our greatest assets & you both give your all. Thanks again. Chat with ya'll soon. Have a great weekend. Patty

  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by pattycakes View Post
    Dear Melinda,

    Appreciate the post. I thought I was probably not alone w/the "smell". Am feeling better. Going to grab my husband & go out to lunch.

    Hope Robert is doing okay. I see he had a couple "uncomfortable" posts. You & Robert have been the difference in my journey & recovery. Don't let anyone discredit the time & dedication you two give unselfishly to others. It is greatly appreciated! Time is one of our greatest assets & you both give your all. Thanks again. Chat with ya'll soon. Have a great weekend. Patty
    Thanks Patty
    Have fun with your husband I hope you have a great afternoon !!
    talk soon, Melinda

  12. #372
    pattycakes is offline Member
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    Default Day 6 - SUB. Free.

    Quote Originally Posted by melinda7.5 View Post
    Thanks Patty
    Have fun with your husband I hope you have a great afternoon !!
    talk soon, Melinda
    Did not feel well yesterday evening. Not sure if it is w/d or just coming down w/something. Anyway, okay this a.m..

    Day 6 - I have found that I think less & less about the whole sub. nightmare. I think this is a healthy sign. Don't miss the sub. feeling at all, do miss some of the energy. That too will come with time I am told. As far as the anxiety goes, my husband thinks I have really mellowed & doesn't see the high strung, easy to criticise, somewhat mean, grump that I was while on the subs.. I guess that is a compliment?? I still feel some mild anxiety & need to start a new life not based on when I take my next drug. It's liberating & scary @ the same time. I have too much time on my hands. Hoping next week smoothes out a little on the emotional side. Still have more dental work & quite freaked out about that. One day at a time Sweet Jesus, one day at a time.

    Thanks again to all who contribute on this website.

    To everyone on this march - hang on - you will do it.

    Have a peaceful, blessed, Sunday. Patty

  13. #373
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Quote Originally Posted by pattycakes View Post
    Did not feel well yesterday evening. Not sure if it is w/d or just coming down w/something. Anyway, okay this a.m..

    Day 6 - I have found that I think less & less about the whole sub. nightmare. I think this is a healthy sign. Don't miss the sub. feeling at all, do miss some of the energy. That too will come with time I am told. As far as the anxiety goes, my husband thinks I have really mellowed & doesn't see the high strung, easy to criticise, somewhat mean, grump that I was while on the subs.. I guess that is a compliment?? I still feel some mild anxiety & need to start a new life not based on when I take my next drug. It's liberating & scary @ the same time. I have too much time on my hands. Hoping next week smoothes out a little on the emotional side. Still have more dental work & quite freaked out about that. One day at a time Sweet Jesus, one day at a time.

    Thanks again to all who contribute on this website.

    To everyone on this march - hang on - you will do it.

    Have a peaceful, blessed, Sunday. Patty





    Patty ...... We are all obviously a little different from each other and I am proud of you for taking it on yourself to jump off when you did and just suck it up and deal with the w/d. You're a tough girl!

    I know Melinda has been talking with you a lot and of course we talk together here about the people each ot us are working with. I totally respect you for your focus, for your stickability, for being so hardcore in the face of a difficult task. I know jumping off cold at 2mg is not easy but you've done a commendable job and you should be very proud of yourself.

    The days will start getting easier and easier. Won't be long and you'll begin to feel like a new person. Just wanted to make a quick post and congratulate you for your ongoing success. Six days is amazing and so are you! Take care and God bless.

  14. #374
    pattycakes is offline Member
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Patty ...... We are all obviously a little different from each other and I am proud of you for taking it on yourself to jump off when you did and just suck it up and deal with the w/d. You're a tough girl!

    I know Melinda has been talking with you a lot and of course we talk together here about the people each ot us are working with. I totally respect you for your focus, for your stickability, for being so hardcore in the face of a difficult task. I know jumping off cold at 2mg is not easy but you've done a commendable job and you should be very proud of yourself.

    The days will start getting easier and easier. Won't be long and you'll begin to feel like a new person. Just wanted to make a quick post and congratulate you for your ongoing success. Six days is amazing and so are you! Take care and God bless.
    Good Morning Robert & Melinda!

    I know it is Sunday & ya'lls favorite day. I hope it is a Great one!

    Just a little confusion I think. I jumped off at less than .25(1/8th of a 2 mg). It's been over a year or so since I had more than 2mg. I know those little decimal points are hard to see. Jumping off at 2mg would have been cruel & unusual punishment for me. I followed the taper down to the 3rd day skip. Chose then to jump.

    Anyway, six days free & I AM becoming a new person. Once again many, many, thanks.

    Patty

  15. #375
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Quote Originally Posted by pattycakes View Post
    Good Morning Robert & Melinda!

    I know it is Sunday & ya'lls favorite day. I hope it is a Great one!

    Just a little confusion I think. I jumped off at less than .25(1/8th of a 2 mg). It's been over a year or so since I had more than 2mg. I know those little decimal points are hard to see. Jumping off at 2mg would have been cruel & unusual punishment for me. I followed the taper down to the 3rd day skip. Chose then to jump.

    Anyway, six days free & I AM becoming a new person. Once again many, many, thanks.

    Patty




    Patty ...... I talk with so many people I get confused sometimes. I THOUGHT your were on a lesser dose than 2mg. I knew we had been talking all through this. See .... even Melinda and I get our wires crossed too between each other sometimes. lol It makes me feel LOTS better knowing you did it at .25mg. I was thinking to myself "...... how did she do that without less problems?" Plus again I thought we had talked during your taper lots of times. LOL

    You've still done an amazing job! You jumping off at .25mg is perfect after the third day skip and the main thing is that it's worked for you. Feels good seeing another person who followed the plan all the way down. You have almost a week done behind you and that is a living miracle for people like us. The congratulations still stand and you should still be proud of your accomplishment. I guess with Melinda jumping in late in your taper she just got it confused. Doesn't matter as long as you're clean.

    We are heading out the door to Bible study class and then church, then a visit with my mom who lives by the church. So we have a busy day planned today along with a barbque planned for this afternoon at home. Have a great day yourself and God bless!

  16. #376
    mcornett is offline New Member
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    Default Help

    I'm soo glad to know that I'm not the only one going thur this. I 'm brand new to the whole sub idea. I was on methadone for two years, I did good on that. It got my off the pain pills, however just recently I started using more and more methadone for the same effect that the pain pills gave. That was worst than the pills I was using before. Just 5 days ago I started subutex. The detox from methadone was the worst pain I have ever felt in my life. As I laid on my floor hoping I would just die to stop the pain, all I kept in my mind was my kids. Today in the first day I have felt like getting out of the house. I hope this gets better. ANY ADVICE?????

  17. #377
    pattycakes is offline Member
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    Default Day 7 - Monday - Brick Wall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Patty ...... I talk with so many people I get confused sometimes. I THOUGHT your were on a lesser dose than 2mg. I knew we had been talking all through this. See .... even Melinda and I get our wires crossed too between each other sometimes. lol It makes me feel LOTS better knowing you did it at .25mg. I was thinking to myself "...... how did she do that without less problems?" Plus again I thought we had talked during your taper lots of times. LOL

    You've still done an amazing job! You jumping off at .25mg is perfect after the third day skip and the main thing is that it's worked for you. Feels good seeing another person who followed the plan all the way down. You have almost a week done behind you and that is a living miracle for people like us. The congratulations still stand and you should still be proud of your accomplishment. I guess with Melinda jumping in late in your taper she just got it confused. Doesn't matter as long as you're clean.

    We are heading out the door to Bible study class and then church, then a visit with my mom who lives by the church. So we have a busy day planned today along with a barbque planned for this afternoon at home. Have a great day yourself and God bless!
    Yes it has been 7 days/1week w/no subs. I know I should be dancing in the streets, but if I could only get off of the couch. I feel like someone has pulled the rug out from under me. It is such a gorgeous day here in sunny FL & I am in a fog. I think I am just going to have to give myself this day as a battery recharge day and give myself some slack. No subs, no drugs, just give myself a break. If I had the flu, I would think nothing of laying around all day/week to recoup., I am not super woman, just a lady having a bad day.

    I have to make an appt to have the filling put in the root canal & I am freaking out about that. I suffered for over 5 weeks w/that one & they put me through hell. My poor gums & jaw are still hurting. I think I have had a migraine since Saturday. Deep throbbing in right temple, relentless. Thought it was from root canal, but could explain why I feel the way I do today. Boy, what a Baby!

    Okay, 7 days & counting. Please Dear Lord, hear my prayers. We all have our daily struggles & we need all the love & support we can get. Cheers to all who are fighting this beast within. We shall overcome. Here's to better days.

    Patty

  18. #378
    subhelp is offline New Member
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    Default Long term sub use......

    Hey Robert,

    I've been reading your advice to others and I am looking for some advice. I've been on sub for almost 5 years and in the last few months have tapered to about
    .25mgs. I'm serious about quitting this medicine as I want to get pregnant and I'm not getting any younger!!!! I was pregnant on the suboxone last year, then my doctor switched me to subutex but I lost the baby. I know that other issues could have caused it, but I've beat myself up that it was this medicine!!! Anyway, When I hit the 1 mg my anxiety went off the charts and it has lingered, but I'm pushing through. My question is what is the best way to stop this? I'm just getting at .25mgs every other day and I don't have any energy, I'm depressed, my heart feels like it is beating out of my chest, so should I just stop the medicine now because this is as bad as it will get??? I'm currently working through this, and I'm trying to take care of things at home as well. Everything I read about long term sub use and withdrawals is scaring me to death. My doctor did prescribe clonidine and nuvigel for energy, but the nuvigel makes my heart beat even faster and I don't like that feeling. Any advice you have will be appreciated!!!!

  19. #379
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Quote Originally Posted by subhelp View Post
    Hey Robert,

    I've been reading your advice to others and I am looking for some advice. I've been on sub for almost 5 years and in the last few months have tapered to about
    .25mgs. I'm serious about quitting this medicine as I want to get pregnant and I'm not getting any younger!!!! I was pregnant on the suboxone last year, then my doctor switched me to subutex but I lost the baby. I know that other issues could have caused it, but I've beat myself up that it was this medicine!!! Anyway, When I hit the 1 mg my anxiety went off the charts and it has lingered, but I'm pushing through. My question is what is the best way to stop this? I'm just getting at .25mgs every other day and I don't have any energy, I'm depressed, my heart feels like it is beating out of my chest, so should I just stop the medicine now because this is as bad as it will get??? I'm currently working through this, and I'm trying to take care of things at home as well. Everything I read about long term sub use and withdrawals is scaring me to death. My doctor did prescribe clonidine and nuvigel for energy, but the nuvigel makes my heart beat even faster and I don't like that feeling. Any advice you have will be appreciated!!!!




    subhelp ...... congrats on tapering down to .25mg on your own. That is a great accomplishment after being on it for five years! I have a process of skipping days that I normally use. But after five years of using we need to watch how you feel the first few days in case we need to modify it a little for you. You could even taper down a little farther if you find yourself having trouble with my suggestion, but I would give the skipping a try first as it may work fine for you. You sound very motivated and that is so important!

    If you are totally stable right now and feel good, feel ready to start then I say let's start tomorrow. You can post all of our communication right here on this thread so I don't miss anything you say. Talk with anyone anywhere, but keep OUR communication here.

    Skip tomorrow entirely. Don't take any subs but you can use the clonidine. The clonidine should help with anxiety, if not you could try some kava as a supplement or even using some klonopin or valium for just this process would be okay. Your dr would be supportive knowing you're getting totally clean. Most will at least if they know you're shooting straight with them for something like this. Print this out and take it with you if necessary. Lots of drs don't want to prescribe a benzo with subs but at such a low dose for such a short time you shouldn't have any problems if your health is good.

    After skipping tomorrow, take the .25mg dose the next day. Then skip two days entirely, followed by dosing again the next day. You'll skip three days, followed by dosing again. Then once you have four days clean that should allow for the sub's long half life and you should be okay.

    I want to monitor how you feel as you go forward to make sure we don't need to make any adjustments for the time you've used subs so please post to me daily letting me know how you feel. Hopefully all will go fine and you'll be totally clean in less than two weeks! Regardless we will get you through this if you'll stick with me. I will not abandon you if you stick with me, I promise. God bless.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 10-05-2010 at 09:45 AM.

  20. #380
    subhelp is offline New Member
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    Thank you so much for your helpful taper schedule. To make sure I understand you completely....you are saying I should skip today and take it tomorrow (Wed) then skip Thurs & Fri and take it Sat, then skip Sun, Mon, Tues and take it Wed then skip 4 days and stop!!!!! I have 4 pieces of .25mg left, will this be enough or should I ask for another 2mg pill to cut up? I hope you know that I really appreciate your help and knowledge. Unfortunately my dr. doesn't know too much about this medicine and keeps telling me to call and tell him how I feel that he is curious about this process.....that scares me and worries me. I promise to keep you updated and to listen to your advice!!!!!!!! Also, use the clonidine and maybe ask for a 10 day benzo??? I am more than motivated and if I could be totally free from this in 2 weeks I wouldn't know how to act!!!!!

  21. #381
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Quote Originally Posted by subhelp View Post
    Thank you so much for your helpful taper schedule. To make sure I understand you completely....you are saying I should skip today and take it tomorrow (Wed) then skip Thurs & Fri and take it Sat, then skip Sun, Mon, Tues and take it Wed then skip 4 days and stop!!!!! I have 4 pieces of .25mg left, will this be enough or should I ask for another 2mg pill to cut up? I hope you know that I really appreciate your help and knowledge. Unfortunately my dr. doesn't know too much about this medicine and keeps telling me to call and tell him how I feel that he is curious about this process.....that scares me and worries me. I promise to keep you updated and to listen to your advice!!!!!!!! Also, use the clonidine and maybe ask for a 10 day benzo??? I am more than motivated and if I could be totally free from this in 2 weeks I wouldn't know how to act!!!!!





    subhelp ........ don't worry about the dr not knowing much about tapering off subs.. Most of them don't know a lot about it sadly. They just get new patients and keep handing out scripts as long as most people want to use them. It's ridiculous that they only have to take a little eight hour class in the USA to get a sub-certification. Most of them prescribe way too much medication and for way too long. They just don't know any better, plus too many sub drs use this as a gravy train for money. Look how many house payments you've made for the dr in five years!

    This is what I've spent probably 70% of my posts here on ....... working with people on sub inductions and tapers. We have people here doing this from alll over the world today. Following this exact same protocol that you are starting now we have about ten people right about to finish up successfully and be totally clean over the next several days, so this isn't something that we are trying out on you as an experiment. It will work trust me!

    If you haven't taken your dose yet today then YES you can start today. Dose tomorrow on Wednesday. Skip Thursday and Friday and plan on dosing Saturday. We'll be talking during that time and I want to see how you're doing considering how long you've been on these things. Worse case scenario is that we'll have to make a couple of adjustments considering the five years. I'm not saying we will but we might. It will all depend on you and how well you do. But you being clean in a couple weeks (approximately) is totally doable.

    If you are going in to see the dr anyway to get some klonopin ( I would get enough for one month just to be sure so you don't have to go back and get more JUST IN CASE you need them), I would go ahead and get a couple 2mg pills or better yet get one 8mg pill, again JUST IN CASE you need it. The 8mg pill doesn't cost much more than a 2mg pill and then you know you would have plenty with one 8mg sub and say thirty 1mg klonopin. I can tell you how to divide the doses up so you won't have any trouble at all. The one 8mg pill would be the smartest way to go. After using them five years buying a couple more pills is not that big of a deal and it will save you from having to pay for another office call over one or two pills. I don't see you possibly needing anymore than one 8mg pill as motivated as you are. Your dr shouldn't have a problem giving you an 8mg pill >> a 2mg pill after five years!

    Let me know when you get the meds too. It won't be that critical tonight but having those klonopin will help you with some anxiety and even sleeping as you get farther into the skipping process. Let me know how you're doing tomorrow, Call the dr today and get on in there to see him unless he will just call the meds in for you. And do get the one 8mg pill. It will cost less than two 2mg and you will have twice as much to work with. I know how to cut them all up so don't worry about anything. God bless.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 10-05-2010 at 10:47 AM.

  22. #382
    subhelp is offline New Member
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    Again, thanks a million! Just reading your posts make me even more motivated than I already was. I've called my dr. office and left a message for him. He's pretty good about calling back and I think after 5 years he should probably just call me something in. He's called suboxone in before, so I think he will listen. When I find out the answer I'll let you know and we will go from here. No, I've not taken any suboxone today, took .25mg yesterday so I will skip today and dose tomorrow and then go from there with your schedule. I'm really scared, but I know I can do it. Will I go through years of PAWS after this? I read that a lot and truly I can't be tired, and depressed for years, I have too much to do!

  23. #383
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Quote Originally Posted by subhelp View Post
    Again, thanks a million! Just reading your posts make me even more motivated than I already was. I've called my dr. office and left a message for him. He's pretty good about calling back and I think after 5 years he should probably just call me something in. He's called suboxone in before, so I think he will listen. When I find out the answer I'll let you know and we will go from here. No, I've not taken any suboxone today, took .25mg yesterday so I will skip today and dose tomorrow and then go from there with your schedule. I'm really scared, but I know I can do it. Will I go through years of PAWS after this? I read that a lot and truly I can't be tired, and depressed for years, I have too much to do!



    Don't believe everything you read about PAWS, Again, very few people really know PAWS or have first hand experience with them. I was one of them and the one thing I can tell you is that if you don't use they go away. And no way they will last for years. That sounds like a Freddy Krueger movie. Be positive and let's shoot for the best. Doing this at the end right is very important. So let's do the end right and hope for the best until we're faced with dealing with something else. That's why I said we may have to make some adjustments but be positive about all this. God bless.

  24. #384
    pattycakes is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Don't believe everything you read about PAWS, Again, very few people really know PAWS or have first hand experience with them. I was one of them and the one thing I can tell you is that if you don't use they go away. And no way they will last for years. That sounds like a Freddy Krueger movie. Be positive and let's shoot for the best. Doing this at the end right is very important. So let's do the end right and hope for the best until we're faced with dealing with something else. That's why I said we may have to make some adjustments but be positive about all this. God bless.
    Dear SUBHELP,

    Listen to Robert. He kept me up during my recent taper. I'm on day 8, subfree. I so know how scary it is, but don't be.afraid. One day at a time. I know how important these posts are to everyone. Keep that determination. Be strong! You CAN do it. The symptons come & go. Hang on to the good feelings. They get longer & stronger w/each day you are off of them. Sounds like you are doing fabulous!!

    OTHERS; I do wish people would remember that support is important after the taper is finished. Somedays are much longer than others & I have reached out for an encouraging word & got "nothing". Gotta say that hurts. Maybe just being emotional again. No worries. Hope everyone is hanging on tight.

    Patty

  25. #385
    subhelp is offline New Member
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    Patty,
    thank you for the encouraging words. I've read all of your posts from the beginning, and don't be scared but I'm following you on what to expect! I hope you know that I'm very impressed by you and I hope you know that I will keep you in my prayers. How are you feeling today?

    Robert,
    It couldn't get to today quick enough to take that stupid suboxone! Even just skipping one day (yesterday) I honestly felt like I was losing my mind! I was freezing, sneezing (which I can handle), I didn't want to do anything after work but sit on the couch. I have a 13 year old son that probably thinks I am a crazy lady! My chest pounded and I think I only got a little sleep due to the glass of wine I drank, but I was wide awake at 3:09am. I finally got up and watched tv and now I'm back to work. I'm worried and I'm scared that I can't do this. I just want to cry because I don't think I can live my daily life without this medicine. Just one day and I'm already falling apart.....can I even do 2 days in a row? I must say that yesterday was the longest day of my life. I'm sorry to be such a downer, I'm just being honest!!!! Any advice?????

  26. #386
    pattycakes is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by subhelp View Post
    Patty,
    thank you for the encouraging words. I've read all of your posts from the beginning, and don't be scared but I'm following you on what to expect! I hope you know that I'm very impressed by you and I hope you know that I will keep you in my prayers. How are you feeling today?

    Robert,
    It couldn't get to today quick enough to take that stupid suboxone! Even just skipping one day (yesterday) I honestly felt like I was losing my mind! I was freezing, sneezing (which I can handle), I didn't want to do anything after work but sit on the couch. I have a 13 year old son that probably thinks I am a crazy lady! My chest pounded and I think I only got a little sleep due to the glass of wine I drank, but I was wide awake at 3:09am. I finally got up and watched tv and now I'm back to work. I'm worried and I'm scared that I can't do this. I just want to cry because I don't think I can live my daily life without this medicine. Just one day and I'm already falling apart.....can I even do 2 days in a row? I must say that yesterday was the longest day of my life. I'm sorry to be such a downer, I'm just being honest!!!! Any advice?????
    SubHelp,
    I found the the 1st day skip on each of the skip days was the hardest. I'm being totally honest. The second day is easier. At least for me it was. I know we are all different. Just hang onnnnnnnnn. Unfortunately the clock does stand still for awhile. Keep laying on the couch, watch the T.V. , read a good book. Anything to take your mind off of it. I had to tell myself that this is like having the flu, it takes time to recover & get your strength back. After all, it is an illness. My heart pounded like that too. It does go away. I had a couple big crying spells. Go ahead it actually helps. You can do it. I know it is scary. But I think you will find after you do the skips, especially the 3rd day. You will feel such a sense of accomplishment, you will never look back. Just think, in less than a week, you could be done with this madness. Hopping into an extremely hot shower felt really good to me & calmed me down. You can get through this girl.
    Just FYI, I'm on day 9! Day 7 sucked, day 8 not so bad, today great!!! I feel your pain sweety, just stay strong, it is only for a few more days, & each day will be different. I took a lot of Motrin & Tylenol, seemed to help with the body aches.
    Keep posting, it is great therapy as well. Lots of hugs & warm regards.
    Patty

  27. #387
    subhelp is offline New Member
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    patty,
    thank you so much again for your encouragement!!! you really are a such a strong person and must be so proud of your accomplishments!!! i was really worried when day 1 felt so bad, i always thought that day 3 would be the worst, so when i felt bad at day 1 i started thinking that i would fall apart at the seems come day 3. you mentioned your children are state troopers, my husband is also a state trooper and this has been quite a battle for him as well. he's been very supportive, but it is really hard for him to totally understand it all. he sees only in black and white at times, but he's stuck by me and helped me through everything! please stay strong and hang in there, know that there is someone here cheering for you, praying for you and really admires you!!!!

    Robert,
    my doctor called this morning and he will not call me in any klonopin. he called in a couple more suboxone to finish the taper, wellbutrin and seroquil for sleep. will these help? should i just go to my family doctor and explain my taper and have him give me some klonopin? just curious, because i really don't want to fail with this one this time!!! thanks for everything!!

  28. #388
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Quote Originally Posted by pattycakes View Post
    Dear SUBHELP,

    Listen to Robert. He kept me up during my recent taper. I'm on day 8, subfree. I so know how scary it is, but don't be.afraid. One day at a time. I know how important these posts are to everyone. Keep that determination. Be strong! You CAN do it. The symptons come & go. Hang on to the good feelings. They get longer & stronger w/each day you are off of them. Sounds like you are doing fabulous!!

    OTHERS; I do wish people would remember that support is important after the taper is finished. Somedays are much longer than others & I have reached out for an encouraging word & got "nothing". Gotta say that hurts. Maybe just being emotional again. No worries. Hope everyone is hanging on tight.

    Patty






    Patty ...... thanks for the kind words. You have backed me up several times and I don't think I've yet appropriately thanked you. Yes, I gave you directions but YOU did the work! Be proud of YOU!

    Nine days is a miracle. Each one of those days make me respect someone like you so much more than when I add another day to my time off opiates. After several years it gets to where you're just living another day, I don't even think about a pain pill anymore. I wouldn't take one on a bet short of surgery or something really major. But for someone just recently clean every new day is HUGE! Every day makes you feel a little better and the next one a little more better.

    It was a pleasure to help you but it took very little effort on my part as you jumped on this and probably could have done it yourself the way you followed the sub therapy link instructions so well, though support from others is very valuable.. Anyway, I just wanted to thank you for your ongoing support on the forum. I appreciate it, but I am mostly happy to see when someone like you comes along SOOO ready to go to work that it makes it really easy to work with.

    I apologize for the days you wrote for support and I failed to reply. That is inexusable and I never do that on purpose. Some days get terribly overwhelming with the number of posts I receive in addition to my emails, messages, church obligations, Bible study class at my home and other things I do. I WILL do my best to not miss anymore requests for help when you or anyone else asks things of me. There is a purpose behind everyone's questions or they wouldn't write them. And they all deserve to be addressed! Have a great day and remember that YOU NEVER HAVE TO USE AGAIN. God bless you Patty and bless your success with your ongoing recovery.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 10-10-2010 at 01:53 PM.

  29. #389
    valleylg is offline Junior Member
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    Hey patti

    Sorry I have not posted I have been out of town. I have been praying for you daily. I am still reading your post and am excited about where I am heading and where you are. Good luck God bless and talk soon

  30. #390
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Quote Originally Posted by subhelp View Post
    patty,
    thank you so much again for your encouragement!!! you really are a such a strong person and must be so proud of your accomplishments!!! i was really worried when day 1 felt so bad, i always thought that day 3 would be the worst, so when i felt bad at day 1 i started thinking that i would fall apart at the seems come day 3. you mentioned your children are state troopers, my husband is also a state trooper and this has been quite a battle for him as well. he's been very supportive, but it is really hard for him to totally understand it all. he sees only in black and white at times, but he's stuck by me and helped me through everything! please stay strong and hang in there, know that there is someone here cheering for you, praying for you and really admires you!!!!

    Robert,
    my doctor called this morning and he will not call me in any klonopin. he called in a couple more suboxone to finish the taper, wellbutrin and seroquil for sleep. will these help? should i just go to my family doctor and explain my taper and have him give me some klonopin? just curious, because i really don't want to fail with this one this time!!! thanks for everything!!





    subhelp ........ it really would have actually been more proper getting the klonopin from your primary dr than the sub dr as subs and klonopin aren't typically prescribed together at the same time. I should have told you that. But you're on such a small dose here at the end that you should be fine with the klonopin unless you have not told me about some health condition that would change things.

    If you explain that you are finishing up stopping the subs and this is just for the one month period I previously explained he should have compassion for you, He'll likely be proud of you and should be obliging, even if he personally doesn't like to prescribe benzos. You might print this thread of our conversations and take it with you to show him. He'll likely make you come in unless you have a really good relationship where he would call them in. That would be surprising though possible. You know your dr.

    Seroquel should help with the sleep, but I sure would hate to see you take any during the daytime for anxiety as the klonopin would help there. Seroquel totally knock out lots of people. What dose did he prescribe of seroquel? I personally don't see why you need an antidepressant (wellbutrin) for this as you aren't clinically depressed according to your posts. That medication could actually increase the intensity of your w/d anxiety. That's just my opinion based on my experience, not medical training. I think antidepressants are over-prescribed. Just like the seroquel is a psych drug. I am NOT a benzo advocate but for less than a month you would be better served with them I think, than with the psych drugs. Again, that's my opinion. As a last resort the seroquel is okay for sleep depending on the dose. What is that?

    To reiterate if you print all this and show your primary dr our conversations here he will more likely understand the reasoning for the klonopin request. After five years on the subs you will likely experience some anxiety during this final part of the taper as you finish and I think it would be very helpful to have that medication just for this short time. Emphasize to the dr that you won't want to refill anything, it's JUST for this final part of the taper.

    I also agree with Patty that you should get a prescription for 800mg Ibuprofen for potential.body aches. They are a good possiblity as well and unless you have a problem with NSAIDS your dr won't have any problem with that I'm sure. Ibuprofen or Naproxen either one is fine. You can use advil or aleve, the prescriptions are just easier on your stomach as the pills have a protective coating to help prevent stomach problems. Plus they are metabolized in your kidney rather than the liver as opiates are so that gives your liver a break after all these years of opiates which the subs are. Don't forget to let me know the dose of seroquel the sub dr prescribed. Too high of a dose will totally knock you out! Hope that this info helps. God bless.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 10-06-2010 at 10:29 AM.

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