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Want off Suboxone
  1. #601
    leonal is offline Banned
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    Suboxone is really strange word for me and i have no idea about the Suboxone right now but i am fully conscious to know about the Suboxone because the info about the Suboxone will increase my information.

  2. #602
    lania2001 is offline New Member
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    Angry working to get off suboxone 8mg twice a day

    Suboxone is a med that to me seems hard to get off.Now I noticed the last time I tried to gradually decrease I failed.I had depression and anxiety and it would take me back.Now I ran out one time and was scared to death and started feeling bad and actually took a 7.5mg and nothing really happened.I have done that 2 times now and like I said no immediate w/d.Now last Christmas bad thing happened and I promise this WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN! I took a script from my Dr in ask them to fill it on 23rd.I come in 24th and see where my insurance would not pay and pickup until 27th.They would not let me pay cash for it since insurance held it up http://images.ddccdn.com/forum/images/smilies/mad.gif I was on Suboxone 8mg 2 times a day, Lyrica 150mg 4 times a day, and Wellbutrin 150xr. Those were the worst days in history for me.Restless Legs, Anxiety, Insomnia, cold , sweat....I even took 10mg norco every hour to help and noticed nothing.I http://images.ddccdn.com/forum/image...ies/eek.gifate Dramamine.I was able to take xanax to finally cut that anxiety but didn't have hardly enough.I drove up to the drive up window of WALGREENS and was there at 6am to pick up my meds.When I finally got them I had to drive in to the parking lot and open bottles and take my meds and waited to feel better.Finally after 15 minutes I was feeling better.
    So I am going to try to wean off it and take the suggestions I have read.Lyrica can make you fill bad too.I recently had my blood drawn to run a complete panel and found my TESTOSTERONE was low, at 200. The range is 269 - 849 per according to my test.I found it would cause alot of the symptoms that I didn't need such as depression, anxiety.sweats,no energy and libido was crushed. The taking off pain meds for years lowers your Testosterone levels .So now I am taking shots and the good thing is that my energy now comes back and I can use my gym and start to get bigger again.I noticed alot of muscle tone lost.MAYBE my wife will like a new me if I can get off the SUBS.Thank you for all the info

  3. #603
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    I've done this a thousand times. You're taking a lot of meds and it could get a little tricky for you. If you want my help let me know. I just ask that you trust me and follow my suggestions to the letter. You do that and I will get you clean guaranteed! Read around the forum and you'll see. Let me know. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  4. #604
    Frogg42 is offline New Member
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    Default Can you help me?

    I'm trying to go off slowly. I'm finally down to 2mg a day. Just tired and I don't sleep well. I've heard walking will help.

  5. #605
    kate80218 is offline New Member
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    Default Suboxone

    I was on Suboxone after becoming addicted to pain meds and it was horrible. I think I was just as addicted to it as I was the pain meds. I went to visit a holistic doctor and they put me on a withdrawal relief system by Pure Health Group. They are also giving me accupunture and nutritional counseling and it has certainly made this a lot easier. I have been off Suboxone for 3 almost 4 weeks now and am doing well. I don't know if you can get the Withdrawal Relief online, but you might try looking them up. Also, check your area and try talking to a holistic doctor. The accupuncture helps alot too!

  6. #606
    subox72782 is offline New Member
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    i have to take an employment drug test at this place called concentra. does methodone or suboxone show up on there urinalsis

  7. #607
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by subox72782 View Post
    i have to take an employment drug test at this place called concentra. does methodone or suboxone show up on there urinalsis





    I am familiar with concentra. Methadone and subs both show up on drug tests. The old five panel tests won't show a positive result, but authorites today usuallly use ten panel tests and buprenorphine, the active ingredient in subs, will show up as a positive result. Hope this helps you. Gpd bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  8. #608
    marilynj55 is offline Junior Member
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    Default Seeking help from robert_325

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    I've done this a thousand times. You're taking a lot of meds and it could get a little tricky for you. If you want my help let me know. I just ask that you trust me and follow my suggestions to the letter. You do that and I will get you clean guaranteed! Read around the forum and you'll see. Let me know. God bless.
    Robert, I hate to hijack this thread -- not my intent -- I just don't know how to start a new thread with you so you can help me, if you're willing, get off methadone with suboxone and then get off suboxone.

    We've "spoken" briefly before but my drug-addled brain can't figure out how to get a conversation going with you in its own thread.

    Can you help?

    Thank you.

    Marilyn

  9. #609
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by marilynj55 View Post
    Robert, I hate to hijack this thread -- not my intent -- I just don't know how to start a new thread with you so you can help me, if you're willing, get off methadone with suboxone and then get off suboxone.

    We've "spoken" briefly before but my drug-addled brain can't figure out how to get a conversation going with you in its own thread.

    Can you help?

    Thank you.

    Marilyn




    Marilyn ..... normally I would be more than happy to work with you. But I am facing major surgery next week and I am not going to be in a position to give you the attention you require. I have referred your post over to Henry. He knows this process as well as I do and is more than capable of helping you out. I will check in on you when I am out of the hospital and have recovered a few days. In the meantime talk with Henry. I sent him a copy of the above post to me so he is aware of your situation. Henry will take awesome care of you! We will talk soon. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  10. #610
    HenryNCBA is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by marilynj55 View Post
    Robert, I hate to hijack this thread -- not my intent -- I just don't know how to start a new thread with you so you can help me, if you're willing, get off methadone with suboxone and then get off suboxone.

    We've "spoken" briefly before but my drug-addled brain can't figure out how to get a conversation going with you in its own thread.

    Can you help?

    Thank you.

    Marilyn
    Good morning Marilyn,
    Henry here. I just spoke with Robert and he has a major surgery coming up next week and will be in recovery for a couple weeks afterwards and has asked me to work with you on this.
    Just a quick outline of what we will be doing. As I do not know how much Methadone you are currently on the first thing we need to do is to taper you down on the Methadone to at least 30mgs. Once there we can do an induction on the subs and get you going on that program.
    Sound good?

    Henry

  11. #611
    dave85 is offline New Member
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    Hi, the support here is really awesome. My question is I started taking suboxone this sunday. I took 8 mg, mon 8 mg, tues 6mg, wed 4 mg, and today 2mg.

    After reading all these posts, I can honestly say I am terrified. I have to go back to work soon and i have been reading that i am going to be sicker then when i was withdrawaling from the vicodin.

    Have I taken enough to really knock me out of commission? I know im going to feel something as there is no quick fix to anything, but after reading everything, i think mentally im freaking out. tom i was going to take 1mg. My dr. told me prolonged use of 2 weeks or more would cause withdrawals, but he says i should be fine with only taking it a couple days. He said in his experience patience complained about trouble sleeping mostly on the dosing he prescribed me. Does anyone agree? Any info would be greatly appreciated. I know everyone is different, but i dont want to mentally make myself sick by worrying.

    thank you for your help in advanced.

  12. #612
    HenryNCBA is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave85 View Post
    Hi, the support here is really awesome. My question is I started taking suboxone this sunday. I took 8 mg, mon 8 mg, tues 6mg, wed 4 mg, and today 2mg.

    After reading all these posts, I can honestly say I am terrified. I have to go back to work soon and i have been reading that i am going to be sicker then when i was withdrawaling from the vicodin.

    Have I taken enough to really knock me out of commission? I know im going to feel something as there is no quick fix to anything, but after reading everything, i think mentally im freaking out. tom i was going to take 1mg. My dr. told me prolonged use of 2 weeks or more would cause withdrawals, but he says i should be fine with only taking it a couple days. He said in his experience patience complained about trouble sleeping mostly on the dosing he prescribed me. Does anyone agree? Any info would be greatly appreciated. I know everyone is different, but i dont want to mentally make myself sick by worrying.

    thank you for your help in advanced.

    Hello Dave,
    First of all try not to stress over it. Remember that no opiate withdrawal has very killed anyone and although one may feel like it that is just the withdrawal symptoms coming into play as the bad guys (addiction but I call them bad guys as I can use examples easier) are fighting for their life too so they are putting up a heck of a fight trying to keep you hooked. Robert and I discuss these and many more issues all the time and now with Denny's help and all the others we brainstorm, research, and are always exchanging information and it is very amazing what the actual medical professionals really have no clue about. They only go with text book schooling and also what the drug manufactures tell them and of course all the research data for them comes form guess who? Yep the drug manufactures and it becomes all about money and unfortunately the doctors follow suite.
    First off there are two main rules when working with subs those being:
    1. Never vary dosages meaning do not take 4 mgs one day for example then 2 the next then 3 the day after, etc.... Subs have a very long half life of up to 72 hours and during a proper taper the recommended process is a 25% reduction about every 4 days. Some folks can do it in 3 while others need more than 4 but we can find that out easy enough. Right about that 72 hour mark is when the symptoms start to hit and also about that time is when the next drop in level occurs so you can see where the algorithm gets a skewed.
    2. Take the same dose at the same times every day. If you take 2 dose per day, most folks that take over 1mg do better on 2 doses per day although many do just great on once per day, say at 07:00 am and then around 15:00 pm make sure to take as close to the same time every day. Subs also have a short term effect and humans being creatures of habit consciously and sub consciously it can play havoc on us both physical and mentally so best to establish a set pattern and stick to it. This is why it is a process not an event and everything with our sub taper program is very controlled and we can tweak it for maximum efficiency tailored just for each individual.

    If you would like some help let me know and I would be happy to help you through this. I have done this countless times already as well as Robert and many others and those that chose to listen closely and not deviate from our recommendations have a complete and total success rate in getting clean with the minimum amount of discomfort. All the horror stories you hear and read about are those that took it upon themselves to do what they felt like and just created a huge mess so they have to find someone to blame other than themselves. On this forum you can also go to the “Need to talk” postings as well as some of the others and you will see that we are all over the place and there are countless success stories so you can base your opinion as you please.
    If you would like help or just some support let me know.

    Henry

  13. #613
    dave85 is offline New Member
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    Thank you for your quick reply. I guess I'm just worried that if I stretch out taking the subs it would make it even worse since I have only been taking it for four days. So you guys think even after four days I'm looking at a rough time? I'm sorry but if you can't already tell my nerves are shot worrying about it. I'm actually worrying about something that hasnt even happen yet. It's crazy.

  14. #614
    HenryNCBA is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave85 View Post
    Thank you for your quick reply. I guess I'm just worried that if I stretch out taking the subs it would make it even worse since I have only been taking it for four days. So you guys think even after four days I'm looking at a rough time? I'm sorry but if you can't already tell my nerves are shot worrying about it. I'm actually worrying about something that hasnt even happen yet. It's crazy.
    Hello Dave,
    No need to apologize. I know the feeling believe me. Subs are a very wonderful tool to use to help folks taper off opiates but only if used correctly.
    8 mgs is way too much sub and even those that have been on very high doses of opiates per day if inducted properly won't need that much. Subs have the strengh of aprox 30 to 40 times that of morphine all variables being equal so you can see how potent 8 mgs can really be. At 4 days in you can probably still drop down to a more resonable dose. If you don't mind answering a few questions I can get a better picture of why you are even taking subs in the first place. I am assuming your doctor put you on them for w/d from opiates?
    1. What was your doc? How much per day?
    2. Are you taking any other medications? Everything including OTC meds please.
    3. What is the exact reason for taking subs?
    4. What is your goal.
    Let me know and we can move forward.
    To answer your questions regarding sleep the answer is "yes". Sleep is usually first, foremost, and usually the last thing to clear itself up after getting clean. Other very common symptoms are runny nose (and I do mean runny), sneezing, aches and pains (can feel deep like bone pain), RLS (some get it in the arms as well), flu like symptoms, sleep issues for sure, digestive issues, depression, anxiety, sweating (can be VERY severe), chills, hot flashes, itchinng, swelling of the legs (edema), and other symptoms but for those that I have helped these were the most common and frequently complained about.
    Depending on what exactly you are taking subs for and how much of what ever you were taking I am sure that you could do the taper at a MUCH lower dose. 8 mgs is considered a HIGH dose and unfortunately most doctors really have no clue what they are talking about regarding subs and their usage. This fact is evident as many will script 16, 24 and even 32 mgs per day!!! Even my own sub doctor years ago wanted me to take 8mg tablets 4 times a day and back then I knew nothing of subs so I even thought that too high and started myself on 16 mgs per day and even that made me feel terrible. I stumbled across this forum and Robert saw the problem right off the bat and by then I had stopped taking all subs and was in pretty severe withdrawal and he inducted me at, you ready for this? You are going to love this I sure did!, only 1.25 mgs total per day!!!!! Yep ONLY 1.25 mgs per day!!! Since then I have done a ton of research, attended seminars, meetings, worked with countless other folks helping them off subs and I have to say that I have never had to induct anyone over 4 mgs per day total with over 90% of those folks under 2 mgs per day total.
    So please try not to freak out and I know and undertand easier said than done but once you get stabilized at a certain dose things will ease up. Subs can have a negative effect as well and it can cause one to get VERY anxious and that can happen with not taking enough as well as taking too much. As you move along you will find the fact is that with subs balance is key to everything. Same time same dose every day, Not too much and not too little. Never bounce on doses from day to day. When in doubt don't take and wait for instructions and tough it out and never take more just because one goes in a panic. This is hard but with subs more is NOT better and less is more as you will find out as time moves along. Once taken you can not just reach in and yank out what was taken and with the long half life up to 72 hours all you can do is wait and when one is suffering 72 hours can seem like eternity.
    Here is the link to the program. Please read and re-read especially the part about induction.
    https://www.drugs.com/forum/featured...apy-50887.html
    Don't worry about the "date" on the post as that was the initial post. This program has been modified and in fact was just recently redone a few weeks ago.
    I'm here to help if you need it.

    Henry

  15. #615
    dave85 is offline New Member
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    I am taking subs because I was abusing vicodin. Heavy use for about a month . I knew I was gonna get sick so asked the dr for subs after reading about it. My pills are 2nd pills. Sunday I took 4 x 2mg, Monday took the same, Tuesday took 2mg x 3 and wed 2mg x 2. Today my fourth day I took one pill 2mg.

    Any suggestions? Ideas on what I can expect. I have work all weekend. This really stinks.

  16. #616
    HenryNCBA is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave85 View Post
    I am taking subs because I was abusing vicodin. Heavy use for about a month . I knew I was gonna get sick so asked the dr for subs after reading about it. My pills are 2nd pills. Sunday I took 4 x 2mg, Monday took the same, Tuesday took 2mg x 3 and wed 2mg x 2. Today my fourth day I took one pill 2mg.

    Any suggestions? Ideas on what I can expect. I have work all weekend. This really stinks.
    That is a pretty rapid taper considering we suggest a 25% reduction about every 4 days but given you just started the subs it shouldn't be that bad for you to try an even lower dose. How much vicodin exactly, or close enough, were you taking daily? One month is not a long time so we may be able to get you off this stuff in short order. You can be honest here as we are all anonomous.
    Also right about today is when you will be feeling the effects of the Sunday and Monday doses. How are you feeling today? I am not too concerened about the Tuesday and yesterday dose yet but mainly Sunday and Monday and I also know you only took 1mg today.

  17. #617
    dave85 is offline New Member
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    I was taking like 60 vicodin over 3 or 4 days. It was bad and I'm lucky I didn't overdose from the aspirin.

    Honestly I feel fine today. No I'll effects from the Sunday and Monday doses. But I did take the one sub this morning. So it's still in mys system, no? Or does it not work that way?

    Should I not take anything Tom and see how I feel? Maybe take a half on Saturday morning?

    By the way, I know it sounds stupid but just the hint of you saying it might not be as bad because I just started the subs made me feel 100% better. A lot of the mental part is the worst and just something as small as that helps a ton. So I really appreciate it and your replys back.

  18. #618
    HenryNCBA is offline Advanced Member
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    Hi Dave,

    At least you were taking vics and not oxys and you stated aspirin so I am assuming you were taking Lortabs. Most common are hydrocodone with acetaminophen and with the acetaminophen when abused one has to worry about liver damage. With aspirin internal bleeding may occur in various places if too much is taken not to mention it can be very hard on the stomach and digestive tract. 60 pills, regardless of strength, is moderate use and looking on the bright side of things many addicts will consume hundreds of pills a day be it vicodin or oxy based pills. That and you have the length of time working in your favor with a month of abuse so this should be relatively easy. I am not saying it is a walk in the park but am merely stating your conditions could have been MUCH worse but abuse is still abuse so we must address it as such.
    There is nothing stupid about what you say and believe me everyone that has gone through this, are going through this or has yet to go through this will all feel the same way albeit some differently but we all will face some sort of physical and psychological symptoms. I agree though the mental part is the worst as our minds can take reason and logic and twist them into all sorts of strange forms and shapes most of which makes no sense except to a drug induced mindset or we get so involved with what is happening internally rather than focusing externally we shut out all other things around us and zoom in on what troubles us the most at any given moment.
    At this point I would not recommend taking more than 1 mg per day. My suggestion to you is to take 1mg per day and to split that into 2 doses but that would be your call. If you feel fine with one dose then go with that. 2 doses of ½ mg each would spread out the doses and the more immediate effects can be taken into account if needed. You are already at 1 mg per day and seem fine with that so there is no need to rush down in dose amounts too fast as that can have negative reactions which will display itself in unpleasant symptoms some of which I mentioned above.
    You just did a super fast taper starting at 8 mgs and in the course of 4 days went down to 1 mg. I personally would not want to push it much more than that. During the normal program a reduction from starting at 8mgs tapering 24% every 4 days the time frame from starting at 8mgs ending up at 1mg would be approximately 8 weeks. You just did that in 4 days so going lower than 1 mg may be pushing things too fast and your system needs to catch up and with the long half life still needs to balance out.
    I would recommend you stay at 1mg at least until Monday and see how you feel. By then the half life of the high doses you took just the other day will be done and you can see how your system is reacting to lower doses. Pushing too low too fast you may feel alright that day and the next but a few or 4 or 5 days later it can cause one to crash and burn. Remember that subs is just a tool to use to help people off opiates nothing more. This is also not for everyone and no two people react alike. What you have working in your favor is you only abused for just a month and the quantity although high is not astronomically high. That and you were on hydrocodone not oxycodone or something more potent. I feel 1 mg per day is reasonable and in fact feel it may be on the high side but as I mentioned better to err on the side of caution than to push too low too fast and wind up paying for it later. If you can balance and stabilize at 1mg the rest of the taper will be easy.
    To answer your question if the sub you took, 1 mg, this morning is still in your system that answer is yes. In fact the subs you took starting just last Sunday that is also still in your system to a degree. Since no two people are alike and half life is dependant upon many various factors such as metabolism, fluid intake, sleep, activity, and everything we do there is really no precise way to determine exactly just how much is still in our systems but a general overall view would be about 30% of Sunday’s dose is still in your system, approximately 35-40% of Monday’s dose is still in your system. Aprox 45 – 60% of Tuesday’s dose is still in your system and the vast majority of yesterdays dose is still in your system. As you can see trying to balance all this out is no easy task.

    Henry

  19. #619
    dave85 is offline New Member
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    Today I actually took a 2mg pill not 1mg sorry if I said that.

    I could have def slowed the taper down but I figured since I only started Sunday i didn't build it up in my blood >>>>>> enough and would be better off getting off it sooner rather then later. I was reading peoples posts and it seemed like even after like 2 weeks people started getting get sick after stopping which is what made me scared to continue on taking it.

    So you would recommend splitting the pill in half tomorrow , which would be my 6th day taking suboxone? So it would be 1mg on day 6. And see how it goes?

    Should I continue at 1mg? For how long? Or should I just try and stop? I guess I just don't understand how the medication works. Sorry in advanced .

  20. #620
    HenryNCBA is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave85 View Post
    Today I actually took a 2mg pill not 1mg sorry if I said that.

    I could have def slowed the taper down but I figured since I only started Sunday i didn't build it up in my blood >>>>>> enough and would be better off getting off it sooner rather then later. I was reading peoples posts and it seemed like even after like 2 weeks people started getting get sick after stopping which is what made me scared to continue on taking it.

    So you would recommend splitting the pill in half tomorrow , which would be my 6th day taking suboxone? So it would be 1mg on day 6. And see how it goes?

    Should I continue at 1mg? For how long? Or should I just try and stop? I guess I just don't understand how the medication works. Sorry in advanced .
    No problem perhaps I misunderstood.
    If today were the second day or so that would be one thing but you are already past the half life point for the your first two doses and by the time the current doses are out of your system will be well past the end of next week and even then trace elements will be floating around. Without getting too technical basically you can look at subs as a medication that blocks off your opiate receptors in your brain. Any opiates that may be consumed or introduced into your system while on opiates will compete for these receptors and the reason why the subs are so strong is so that it will dominate the receptors. If more opiates are introduced then trouble can start and a conditions knows as precipitated withdrawal can happen and once that starts there is not much that can be done and all one can really do is stop taking everything and wait it out for a couple weeks or so until the precipitated withdrawal is over. It takes a while because remember subs have a long half life. Until it is completely out of your system one just has to suffer and precipitated withdrawal is much more miserable that regular cold turkey withdrawal symptoms. Now subs used correctly mask the symptoms of withdrawal in your case from vicodins so that the symptoms of withdrawal are tolerable. You don't want to take so much subs that you don't feel a thing for then you really have no way of knowing if it is working properly and at the same time you don't want to get hooked on subs itself. You always want to feel a little bit of discomfort as you use that as a gauge to monitor your progress. Initially the trick is to only use the minimum amount of sub necessary to stabilize you then once inducted you taper from that point so with the vast majority of folks properly inducted long term hardcore addicts usually start off, remember that everyone is different, up to around 4 mgs give or take either way and short term usually can induct at less than 2 mgs and many times even less than half that amount. Heck look at me I used vicodin, oxys, percocets, hydromet and everything short of sticking a needle in my arm and used for a good many years and I inducted at a lowly 1.25 mgs total per day. I started in late September 2009 and November 11th of 2009 I was clean. I won't say it was a walk in the park but far less painful than cold turkey. I was just glad I found Robert here as he inducted me at 1.25 mgs and it was he that logically stated "we will get you inducted and stabilized at the absolute minimum amount of sub necessary to stabilize you" and I say the same to you now. The point is to get off opiates and using the minimum amount necessary is a logical and sensible way to start instead of a doctor flooding you out with WAY more than necessary and dragging one through a VERY long drawn out process which can take years and many tell their patients that they have to be on them for life too. That is all a crock of bull cookies and they really don't know what they are talking about. Subs are designed to get people off opiates using a taper plan they are not designed to be used for long term tapers and not for maintenance indefinitely. If they were they would not be so strong and restrictive in their indications.
    Going forward I don’t know when you stopped taking the vicodins but you did start subs on last Sunday. I would think you stopped taking the vicodins around Friday or Saturday last week if you started subs on Sunday otherwise you would be in withdrawal. If you were to suddenly stop the subs now you are still in the withdrawal phase from the vicodin so I would not recommend stopping the subs just like that. If you think about it you were taking up to 60 vics a day then suddenly introduced something even stronger and more powerful into your system (subs) then if you suddenly stopped well you can see where that is headed. Your system will react accordingly. Getting back to, I know I am long winded but I do this to help eliminate questions and one of the worst things is to have someone worry because they don’t know, how subs work they block off your opiate receptors and mask the withdrawal symptoms. You don’t want too much sub as it can overwhelm your system and not too little but just enough so the withdrawal is not breaking all the way through and you want to walk that edge of the fence all the way through the taper. You gradually reduce your dosage and the reason for the 25% maximum, some folks do less but never go over 25%, is that is about the maximum one would want to taper down because of the potency and long half life and other attributes of subs this is about the threshold you do not want to go beyond. The 4 days at 25% and the reason for 4 days, some do it in 3, is that is right about just past mid point of the half life so if you were going to develop a negative reaction symptoms wise it would show by this time and you would know if more time is needed to stabilize or if you feel okay then to go ahead and drop to the next level by reducing your dose by 25% or what ever feels comfortable for the individual. Key point is in reductions to keep it consistent. If it is 25% then always stick to 25%. If it is 20% then stick with 20%. If it is 10% then stick with 10% but never waver. Sure some do and come out fine but they are far and few between and it is not worth the risk to find out. Once a person gets down to .25mg per day it is their call if they wish to start the skipping days process or taper further. The taper is just that a tapering process that gets your system used to life with less and less sub in the system. The skipping day’s process gets your system used to life without subs. After that phase you are done.
    You asked what my recommendations would be at this point? At this point I would say tomorrow go ahead and drop to 1mg per day. I know this is against protocol but you have already done a very rapid taper and a large amount at that so while your system is confused now would be the time to do it rather than wait to become stabilized then drop a large amount. Once you stabilized it becomes a very controlled process not an event and right now you are in event stage. Do I recommend you drop even further? I can’t control what you do but I would not recommend it. I tend to be more conservative than some of the others and try to look at it more from a psychological point of view that if a person is more stabilized mentally and emotionally they are more apt to complete the program as they have a better grasp and understanding of what is going on. Sure there are some that I have helped that didn’t care and just blasted their way through but I try to look at how the person is mentally and emotionally as that is how I would react if it was happening to me. Go to 1 mg but split the dose into 2 with .5 (1/2) mg in the morning at between 6-9:00 am then the afternoon dose around 3-5:00 pm. You don’t want to take sub too close to bedtime or late in the evening because it WILL mess with your sleep. Stay at 1mg until Monday and depending on how you are feeling can proceed to taper by 25% which will bring you down to .75 mgs per day for 4 days or if you need another day or two to stabilize no harm in that also. There are tricks we can use to help get you out of a jam. What ever you do DO NOT TAKE MORE! Remember that with subs more is not better but less is more. Again subs have a short term effect and can make one feel better in a couple/few hours but it is a crescendo effect. Many will start to feel just a tiny bit better, again no two people are alike, in 20 minutes or what ever and feel bad still and think they need more so they take more not giving the subs enough time to fully affect them and by the time 3 or 4 hours have gone by they have taken way too much and by that I mean 2,3,4,6 or more mgs. Sure they may feel better and considering they just took that much of something 30 to 40 times more powerful than morphine they are numb but when it wears off and again when the half life starts to wane a few days out then the real trouble start.
    All going well on Monday if you feel fine at 1mgs then starting Tuesday drop to .75 mgs for 4 days and continue this but stay in touch through out the entire process. If my calculations are correct you will be ready to start the skipping days phase on October 16th and before the end of October you will be done completely and clean! You only have to do this once and never have to do it again if done right.
    Sorry so long. I try hard to cover all bases so it helps put people’s minds at ease. The mind is powerful and it can work for you or as with worry, fear, anxiety, depression it can work against you too.

    Henry
    Last edited by Anonymous; 09-25-2011 at 12:51 PM.

  21. #621
    marilynj55 is offline Junior Member
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    Default How to find Henry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Marilyn ..... normally I would be more than happy to work with you. But I am facing major surgery next week and I am not going to be in a position to give you the attention you require. I have referred your post over to Henry. He knows this process as well as I do and is more than capable of helping you out. I will check in on you when I am out of the hospital and have recovered a few days. In the meantime talk with Henry. I sent him a copy of the above post to me so he is aware of your situation. Henry will take awesome care of you! We will talk soon. God bless.
    I hate to bother you right now since you are more than likely either in the hospital getting ready for surgery or postop.

    But if you're not and are in a position to answer, could you direct me specifically how/where to find Henry?

    Thank you.

    Marilyn

  22. #622
    HenryNCBA is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by marilynj55 View Post
    I hate to bother you right now since you are more than likely either in the hospital getting ready for surgery or postop.

    But if you're not and are in a position to answer, could you direct me specifically how/where to find Henry?

    Thank you.

    Marilyn
    Hello Marilyn,
    You can find me right here. My weekends are much busier than my weekdays as I have to take care of my father as well as deal with family issues. Since Mother's passing I am pretty much running the show for our family and dealing with the estate is a major headache not to mention time consuming with all the legal matters. If you post here I do monitor whenever I get the chance. Saturday I was watching on and off about every hour or so. Yesterday I didn't get a chance to and this morning I was tied up with my dentist/surgeon as they are in the final stages of reconstructing my lower left jaw. I am home for today so will be monitoring this site. I do have to leave at 11:30 as I have doctors appointment at 12:30 in the West
    Bay but will come straight home so if you have any questions or concerns post it and I will attend to it as soon as I return. I am on Pacific Time as I am in California in the San Francisco Bay Area to be specific.
    Hope you are doing well.

    Dave I haven't heard from you buddy. How are you doing?

    Henry

  23. #623
    marilynj55 is offline Junior Member
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    Question Henry - hopefully we can connect now

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryNCBA View Post
    Hello Marilyn,
    You can find me right here. My weekends are much busier than my weekdays as I have to take care of my father as well as deal with family issues. Since Mother's passing I am pretty much running the show for our family and dealing with the estate is a major headache not to mention time consuming with all the legal matters. If you post here I do monitor whenever I get the chance. Saturday I was watching on and off about every hour or so. Yesterday I didn't get a chance to and this morning I was tied up with my dentist/surgeon as they are in the final stages of reconstructing my lower left jaw. I am home for today so will be monitoring this site. I do have to leave at 11:30 as I have doctors appointment at 12:30 in the West
    Bay but will come straight home so if you have any questions or concerns post it and I will attend to it as soon as I return. I am on Pacific Time as I am in California in the San Francisco Bay Area to be specific.
    Hope you are doing well.

    Henry
    I got an appointment with a doc who will prescribe me subutex. My appointment is on the 10th of October, so he wants me to take my last dose of methadone on Thursday, the 6th.

    I would feel a whole lot more comfortable walking into this knowing what to do with my script according to you and Robert's protocol here if we could talk a little bit before I go in for the appointment and I can be prepared, etc.

    By the 6th (last dose) I should be down to 27 mg. of methadone.

    So I know there's nothing I need to know imminently, but just thought we could connect and so I know you're there when I start whatever it is I'm starting!

    Should we continue communicating here or through private emails or what's your preference?

    I can't thank you enough (in advance) for helping me. I sincerely want to get off methadone and OFF subutex just as soon as I possibly can!

    Thanks again.

    Marilyn

  24. #624
    HenryNCBA is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by marilynj55 View Post
    I got an appointment with a doc who will prescribe me subutex. My appointment is on the 10th of October, so he wants me to take my last dose of methadone on Thursday, the 6th.

    I would feel a whole lot more comfortable walking into this knowing what to do with my script according to you and Robert's protocol here if we could talk a little bit before I go in for the appointment and I can be prepared, etc.

    By the 6th (last dose) I should be down to 27 mg. of methadone.

    So I know there's nothing I need to know imminently, but just thought we could connect and so I know you're there when I start whatever it is I'm starting!

    Should we continue communicating here or through private emails or what's your preference?

    I can't thank you enough (in advance) for helping me. I sincerely want to get off methadone and OFF subutex just as soon as I possibly can!

    Thanks again.

    Marilyn
    Hello Marilyn,
    I responded to your email and we can do this however you feel most comfortable with but we can otherwise do it right here. If your doctor wants you to stop methadone 4 days prior to the appointment that tells me that he/she wants you in full blown withdrawal which is the way inductions are usually started but I serouisly doubt they will use the COWS worksheet not to mention my fear is they will put you on a rediculously high dose of sub to start you off on. Most doctors have no clue and will start people on 16 mgs, 24 mgs or in my case what mine did 32 mgs per day and want you to stay at that high dose for possibly months before he/she will even think about tapering down. They have also been known to tell folks they need to be on it for life. What ever they tell you that is all a hugh crock. If the induction is done properly as I listed out to you in the email you shouldn't need more than 4 mgs total per day and more than likely I can get you started possible at close to half that amount. I would initially start you one you score a 26 on the COWS with .5mg then have you wait a full 2 hours then depending on how you feel step you up by only .25 mgs every 90 minutes there after until you feel stabilized. Don't let the doctor blast a huge amount of sub into you which is what they will most likely do since they are having you stop everything ahead of time it sounds like they plan to induct you in the office right then and there. If that is the case ask if you can sign a waiver not to take such a high amount and anything over 2 mgs starting is crazy. Remember what I said that the goal is to get you stabilized at induction at the absolute lowest amount of sub necessary to get you stabilized and we work it down from there. Not to flood your system with enough subs to make an elephant loopy and keep you there for some time and even the brief information I provided to you, you can see where that would head into trouble if they go that route. Try to just get the subs and get out of there and we can do the induction and taper right here. Since you have to wait till then anyway to even acquire subs you might as well keep reducing on your methadone so don't stop tapering down on that. It will help.
    Keep me posted.

    Henry

  25. #625
    HicksvilleNY is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banze View Post
    Well now my shrink has me on Seroquel, I think hes crazy! That is a drug for synorfornizia (SP) and bipolar disorder which I have neither, or have not been diganosed with either. I have had anxiety since Detox and he first put me on Buspar which didnt work and now he put me on this. I took one and it knocked me into next week, I got all groggy, spacey and totally out of it and slept like a log. He wants me to take it twice a day, how am I supposed to work? Does anyone have any idea why he put me on this? He said it was an anxiety medication but once I got home and looked it up and foudn out its for mania, bipolar and skzos I am kinda freaked out. Either he has no idea what he is doing or he is lying to me, but either way I am not pleased and am afraid of the medication. I am trying to stay off pills and he wont give me Xanax, but he he puts me on this, what is the deal? Any help??? Please, I am NOT or have never had any of these symptoms and it concerns me that my doctor has me on this medication.
    Itake seroquel for sleep, its the only thing that works for me, I use it while tapering so I can sleep instead of use. Just don't over use it,I would never take it during work. only at bedtime

  26. #626
    HenryNCBA is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by HicksvilleNY View Post
    Itake seroquel for sleep, its the only thing that works for me, I use it while tapering so I can sleep instead of use. Just don't over use it,I would never take it during work. only at bedtime
    Hello HicksvilleNY,

    The post you are responding to is from January of 2006. I doubt this person is around any longer.

    Henry

  27. #627
    HicksvilleNY is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryNCBA View Post
    Hello HicksvilleNY,

    The post you are responding to is from January of 2006. I doubt this person is around any longer.

    Henry
    oh well......

  28. #628
    lopps is offline New Member
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    Default want off subs

    Quote Originally Posted by lania2001 View Post
    Suboxone is a med that to me seems hard to get off.Now I noticed the last time I tried to gradually decrease I failed.I had depression and anxiety and it would take me back.Now I ran out one time and was scared to death and started feeling bad and actually took a 7.5mg and nothing really happened.I have done that 2 times now and like I said no immediate w/d.Now last Christmas bad thing happened and I promise this WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN! I took a script from my Dr in ask them to fill it on 23rd.I come in 24th and see where my insurance would not pay and pickup until 27th.They would not let me pay cash for it since insurance held it up http://images.ddccdn.com/forum/images/smilies/mad.gif I was on Suboxone 8mg 2 times a day, Lyrica 150mg 4 times a day, and Wellbutrin 150xr. Those were the worst days in history for me.Restless Legs, Anxiety, Insomnia, cold , sweat....I even took 10mg norco every hour to help and noticed nothing.I http://images.ddccdn.com/forum/image...ies/eek.gifate Dramamine.I was able to take xanax to finally cut that anxiety but didn't have hardly enough.I drove up to the drive up window of WALGREENS and was there at 6am to pick up my meds.When I finally got them I had to drive in to the parking lot and open bottles and take my meds and waited to feel better.Finally after 15 minutes I was feeling better.
    So I am going to try to wean off it and take the suggestions I have read.Lyrica can make you fill bad too.I recently had my blood drawn to run a complete panel and found my TESTOSTERONE was low, at 200. The range is 269 - 849 per according to my test.I found it would cause alot of the symptoms that I didn't need such as depression, anxiety.sweats,no energy and libido was crushed. The taking off pain meds for years lowers your Testosterone levels .So now I am taking shots and the good thing is that my energy now comes back and I can use my gym and start to get bigger again.I noticed alot of muscle tone lost.MAYBE my wife will like a new me if I can get off the SUBS.Thank you for all the info
    i was just perscribed sub for a methadone kick, 20 years worth from surgeries, i think the drug is too weak for full agonist drugs, to get on you have to be in detox for 3 days ,well shucks if you can stand 3 days clean then eny king babby as us addicts are can fight it drug free, put the energy into recovery from opiats as if your were going to fill up on your next fix, iam not pussieing out iam gettin 100% off opiats no sub crutch! iam on drugs 40 years always been addictive personality i just the other day flushed 27 8 mg suboxones down the toilet the stuff is garbage.
    darren
    Last edited by Anonymous; 10-05-2011 at 07:32 PM.

  29. #629
    HicksvilleNY is offline Member
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    Default

    So I take it you didn't go on the sub...good for you. If you took them for 3 years at a large dose then stopped I almost guaranty you'll end up in the ER. As for kicking CT , If you can do it more power to ya man, I know very little about methadone so I can't comment on it or its effects, What I can comment on is that Sub has almost ruined my liife ,,, well me and sub, as I'm the ahole who got in this mess to start with recklessly and with no thoughts of others, My Dr. told me it was the answer, I listened to him because he had been my Dr. for 6 years. I trusted him. After the first month I felt treated like a junkie in his presence, it really angered me. But what could I do aside from tell him I was angry about it, which I did
    Now I'm 3 weeks out of sub and still having a difficult time. Its still there, Its way too much for a simple person taking a little too much Vicoden. Hell Vicoden CT wasn’t this bad, and lasted only 5-6 days maybe 7

    Good luck Darren, I truly hope you do well

  30. #630
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    Exclamation What you and I have discovered

    Hicksville--I fear that what you and I have discovered is that sometimes the sub withdrawal is so bad that people genuinely return to opiates to stop the misery. That though has repeatedly recurred to me these past 2 1/2 weeks with this killer headache, nightsweats, sleeplessness, constant sneezing and lead suit. If I thought I'd live the rest of my life like this I'd go back to vicodin in a heartbeat. I'm still sick.

    But the body heals, albeit at its own rate, not my will or wish.

    So I keep plugged away--have seen four doctors this week alone, trying to get some knowledge about what's going on and if there is anything short of returning to vics to resolve this misery. The medical profession punts on this one. Everyone just shakes his head and says,"Not withdrawal this late." But you and I know better--that subs are very difficult for some people (lucky us ) to shake out of their system.

    I hope it motivates me never to use them again, but I can see someone in a moment of weakness returning to vics to get a little peace in his life--this prolonged withdrawal is that disruptive.

    But that's just today--everyone on the other side, like Robert, Cheeky, Musicman, Mottam--people with solid sobriety--say it gets better, and I believe them. And if you read into their threads deeply, you'll fine that they are fine off opiates.

    Hicksville, we can do it! This is the trial that separates the men from the boys, that tests our motivation to the max!

    Shrimpboat

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