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Xanax and Suboxone?
  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Lilly .... I want your body to get some rest for a day or so. We can begin to taper after tomorrow. I don't think it's wise to do anything different tomorrow. Just repeat today's dosing instructions. I am hoping that tomorrow goes a little smoother than today.

    I would like to see you down to 8mg on Thursday, two doses of 4mg each. But just do a repeat tomorrow and cut your body some slack. Let me know tomorrow evening how you're doing. I go to church on Weds from 6:15 until about 8:15 and I'm in Houston so you'll know the time zone. I will check on you as soon as I come in tomorrow night.

    You're going to do just fine with this. And for what it's worth I agree 100% with everything your therapist said to you. We all have a love/hate relationship with our drugs of choice. It's like getting over a death when we get clean. Just don't use no matter what and you will get better every day. God bless.
    hi robert....i'm getting ready to drive the hour and 20 min commute home, but didn't want to to have any confusion from my most recent post....i took the 4mgs at 4:00p.m. as directed....and will be home around 6:30 p.m. EST.....however, your last post mentioned your church comittment and the 2-3 hour time difference....anyway, whenever you get a moment, let me know you suggestions for my dose on the suboxone for tomorrow....i'll be checking in a few times tonite and first thing before work....
    thanx. lilly

  2. #182
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Lilly ... absolutely go ahead and take the other 4mg. Main thing is that you take the afternoon dose at the same time each day. Let's repeat the same dose again tomorrow. I don't want to reduce you again until you have a good day. You should become acclimated to this 10mg dose over the next day. You may not feel perfect but you should feel good enough after one more day to reduce on the following day. I will be in church this evening but will check back on the forum when I get home about 8:30 CST. I believe that with one more day at 10mg you'll be okay to plan on reducing to two 4mg doses the following day. God bless.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 02-04-2009 at 05:16 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Lilly ... absolutely go ahead and take the other 4mg. Main thing is that you take the afternoon dose at the same time each day. Let's repeat the same dose again tomorrow. I don't want to reduce you again until you have a good day. You should become acclimated to this 10mg dose over the next day. You may not feel perfect but you should feel good enough after one more day to reduce on the following day. I will be in church this evening but will check back on the forum when I get home about 8:30 CST. I believe that with one more day at 10mg you'll be okay to plan on reducing to two 4mg doses the following day. God bless.
    hi robert and all; i just got home and got your note....Dare i trust this glimmer of hope that i actually felt ("feeling"while somewhat sober; something new and different) when i read your words/coupled w/ what i've actually been feeling (i.e., my symptoms today; both physical and mental)...i mean, i do not have "rose colored glasses" /denial/etc., thinking everything is all better now....far from it....but until i read your note, i had to admit to myself that i actually did have a better day today, compared to the past 4 days; but i just couldn't allow myself to believe nor trust it....maybe that's the addict in me, still thinking i'm going to eventually need to fall back on my old ways of living/functioning thru' my life w/ the help of my opiates....hmmm....never ever reflected on that thought.....i quess, that's my little mantra to meditate on tonite....CAN ANYONE ELSE RELATE TO THIS PSYCHOLOGY/MIND-SET of a long term opiate user?....just curious.....i guess i'm just waiting and anticipating the usual horrible w/d's to rear their ugly heads any moment....and when they have, so far, i have found they are passing...and each time it's a little bit easier; tho' still tough, so don't get me wrong...(but i want people out there, like me, to know that it is bearable; and it is this very fear, that stopped me from even considering getting off all my drugs; not too mention, in all honesty, i liked feeling high, at least in the beginning, before it turned into the neverending quest just to feel not dope-sick/and what had become the only familiar/comfortable way of functioning and feeling )....it's just that after years of taking over 400mgs of morphine daily and sometimes 20-30 percocets coupled w/ alcohol perday and the few times i ever tried the cold turkey way, well, i couldn't last even one day......i hope anyone reading this who is where i was w/ my usage, can take a little glimmer of hope for themselves....yes, i am literally doing this one hour at a time, but i NEVER thought i could even do one day w/out...not ever....and i'm still so unsure and scared that i might not make it, but i did finally get to that elusive point of; "wanting to change this" and for me, that was what i needed, to at least start this "sheer will effort"....i just pray to all the gods above that i can do this...
    anyway, robert, i will follow your directions for tomorrow and keep you posted....
    peace, lilly

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilly555 View Post
    hi robert and all; i just got home and got your note....Dare i trust this glimmer of hope that i actually felt ("feeling"while somewhat sober; something new and different) when i read your words/coupled w/ what i've actually been feeling (i.e., my symptoms today; both physical and mental)...i mean, i do not have "rose colored glasses" /denial/etc., thinking everything is all better now....far from it....but until i read your note, i had to admit to myself that i actually did have a better day today, compared to the past 4 days; but i just couldn't allow myself to believe nor trust it....maybe that's the addict in me, still thinking i'm going to eventually need to fall back on my old ways of living/functioning thru' my life w/ the help of my opiates....hmmm....never ever reflected on that thought.....i quess, that's my little mantra to meditate on tonite....CAN ANYONE ELSE RELATE TO THIS PSYCHOLOGY/MIND-SET of a long term opiate user?....just curious.....i guess i'm just waiting and anticipating the usual horrible w/d's to rear their ugly heads any moment....and when they have, so far, i have found they are passing...and each time it's a little bit easier; tho' still tough, so don't get me wrong...(but i want people out there, like me, to know that it is bearable; and it is this very fear, that stopped me from even considering getting off all my drugs; not too mention, in all honesty, i liked feeling high, at least in the beginning, before it turned into the neverending quest just to feel not dope-sick/and what had become the only familiar/comfortable way of functioning and feeling )....it's just that after years of taking over 400mgs of morphine daily and sometimes 20-30 percocets coupled w/ alcohol perday and the few times i ever tried the cold turkey way, well, i couldn't last even one day......i hope anyone reading this who is where i was w/ my usage, can take a little glimmer of hope for themselves....yes, i am literally doing this one hour at a time, but i NEVER thought i could even do one day w/out...not ever....and i'm still so unsure and scared that i might not make it, but i did finally get to that elusive point of; "wanting to change this" and for me, that was what i needed, to at least start this "sheer will effort"....i just pray to all the gods above that i can do this...
    anyway, robert, i will follow your directions for tomorrow and keep you posted....
    peace, lilly
    Hi lilly
    We all have the what if thinking...we just have to keep it in check...
    I have been clean since August and it still popps in my mind...OH YOU NEED A VIC...I just tell myself no you dont...its just a little mind game...give youself some time and you will get good at it...
    Keep up the good work your doing great...
    Talk to you later, Melinda

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by melinda7.5 View Post
    Hi lilly
    We all have the what if thinking...we just have to keep it in check...
    I have been clean since August and it still popps in my mind...OH YOU NEED A VIC...I just tell myself no you dont...its just a little mind game...give youself some time and you will get good at it...
    Keep up the good work your doing great...
    Talk to you later, Melinda
    hi melinda...thanx for your note of support...i am at work and it is 12:30 p.m. est...took my 6 mg of sub at 8:30 a.m per instructed/robert...todays' symptoms so far ( i am writing these down daily on post-it's, so i can keep track) have been some warm all over body flushes coming and going around 11:00 a.m. for about 5-10 min ( shorter duration then yesterday); also had a short bout of all over body chills a couple times since this morning; my last set of chills was about a half hour ago and they seem to be lasting about 5 min or so...definitly are getting shorter in duration, yet still persistent; is this what you or others have also gone thru'? and i've been getting on and off heart racing/pounding sensations past few days; am actually having one right now; it feels like my heart is going to pound out of my chest...is this the suboxone, w/d or anxiety? or maybe a combo of all three? i had this pretty intense last night before bed too...i NEVER have this type of anxiety....but then again, i haven't really felt parts of my body for a very long time; everything overall was/has just been duller and less intense, than whatever the hell i'm experiencing now....
    also, incredible you've been clean of the Vic's since august....what an amazing feat for you; i was able to flush my last 30 percocets before i took my last dose of my Laudanum before starting the sub's, as i knew i would never have the willpower, and in the past, i could never imagine parting w/ just one pill, much less 30!!!...of course, i had to take 5-6 of the 5mg's to even feel them and even then, it only lasted an hour or two and never quite as good as the time before...and so on....however, i do still keep thinking about them and the laud and in all honesty, i have not been able to throw out my 1/2 bottle left that i still have of the laudanum.....i'm just not ready, keep thinking i may need it one day if i get a real bad flare-up ( i have Ulcerative Colitis...borderline, Chrons Disease),
    but i also know after all these years of abusing it; that i probably don't even need it....i mean i KNOW don't need it.....i just can't seem to part w/ it yet......
    counting the hours....and thank you for your encouragement; i need it very much...today is about the same as yesterday; w/ my symptoms and the suboxone; waiting to see what robert rec' for tomorrow......my next dose is 4mg at 4:00p.m.....god, i hope this works...
    peace, lilly

  6. #186
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Lilly .... it's time after today to take this to 8mg. Tomorrow take two 4mg doses. You shouldn't notice any change in symptoms whatsoever. I will be at an NA meeting tonight. Won't be home until about 9:00 CST as it's a birthday celebration for those celebrating years clean. I will check on you when I come in. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Lilly .... it's time after today to take this to 8mg. Tomorrow take two 4mg doses. You shouldn't notice any change in symptoms whatsoever. I will be at an NA meeting tonight. Won't be home until about 9:00 CST as it's a birthday celebration for those celebrating years clean. I will check on you when I come in. God bless.
    hi robert, melinda and all;
    well i just came home from my visit to my suboxone doc and i am reeling....he as very adamant that i would need to be on the sub' for a year, maybe 2!....he said in the 5 years he's been doing this, almost all of his patients need to be on it that long or they relapse; when i said my goal is to be on the sub for as short of a period as possible; hopefully a couple months; he shot me down w/ a dismissive almost angry tone; just cut me off and wouldn't even discuss it...i have not told him i am working w/ robert on this method because he made it clear to me that he wouldn't prescribe the sub's unless i follow his directions...what is up w/ this???i would think any doctor would welcome a drug user who actually wants to be off drugs, would work w/ them on that goal....and based on my readings here that seem to go back several years; the shorter the better w/ the suboxone...
    My question is will this lower amount of the sub's that i am taking show up percentage/dose wise, in my weekly drug tests w/ him? Does anyone know?...i'm afraid if it does show up, he will cut me off the treatment....any help from anyone will greatly help me....what irony!!!
    as far as tomorrow, i will take the 4mg twice tomorrow and let you know how it goes, robert
    also, for anyone out there in my shoes, or is considering this; i have to say that today my symptoms were definitely better then yesterday and no one could ever have convinced me of this, ever.....but it is simply the truth...it's worth the effort and hard work, if you're willing....
    peace, lilly

  8. #188
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    Hi Lilly
    OMG...I'm so glad you found this place.There are so many people that have a hard time after being on subs for a long time.These doctors need there A$$ kicked...
    Im sorry I don't know the answer to your ? but Robert or Musicman Will...
    Your story just gave me goose bumps...
    I'm glad your feeling better...you will be over this soon and you wont have to worry about that doctor anymore...
    Talk to you soon, Melinda

  9. #189
    musicman48 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilly555 View Post
    hi robert, melinda and all;
    well i just came home from my visit to my suboxone doc and i am reeling....he as very adamant that i would need to be on the sub' for a year, maybe 2!....he said in the 5 years he's been doing this, almost all of his patients need to be on it that long or they relapse; when i said my goal is to be on the sub for as short of a period as possible; hopefully a couple months; he shot me down w/ a dismissive almost angry tone; just cut me off and wouldn't even discuss it...i have not told him i am working w/ robert on this method because he made it clear to me that he wouldn't prescribe the sub's unless i follow his directions...what is up w/ this???i would think any doctor would welcome a drug user who actually wants to be off drugs, would work w/ them on that goal....and based on my readings here that seem to go back several years; the shorter the better w/ the suboxone...
    My question is will this lower amount of the sub's that i am taking show up percentage/dose wise, in my weekly drug tests w/ him? Does anyone know?...i'm afraid if it does show up, he will cut me off the treatment....any help from anyone will greatly help me....what irony!!!
    as far as tomorrow, i will take the 4mg twice tomorrow and let you know how it goes, robert
    also, for anyone out there in my shoes, or is considering this; i have to say that today my symptoms were definitely better then yesterday and no one could ever have convinced me of this, ever.....but it is simply the truth...it's worth the effort and hard work, if you're willing....
    peace, lilly
    Hi Lilly,I know Robert has been helping you.You are in great hands with Robert's advice.I will tell you this.From this point on just agree with whatever your Dr says.You do not want to risk not getting your scripts by making waves..The answer to your question is....The Dr will not know how much sub you are taking.Most sub Drs are screening you for opiates,benzos, or marijuana.They are not screening for suboxone levels.They are not checking you for the amount of sub in your system.Just nod your head yes at your next appt,tell him all is well and get your script.Relapses do happen.That is why we need to use alternative means of staying clean once we taper off of suboxone.NA,Church or whatever.Good luck and God bless.

  10. #190
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilly555 View Post
    hi robert, melinda and all;
    well i just came home from my visit to my suboxone doc and i am reeling....he as very adamant that i would need to be on the sub' for a year, maybe 2!....he said in the 5 years he's been doing this, almost all of his patients need to be on it that long or they relapse; when i said my goal is to be on the sub for as short of a period as possible; hopefully a couple months; he shot me down w/ a dismissive almost angry tone; just cut me off and wouldn't even discuss it...i have not told him i am working w/ robert on this method because he made it clear to me that he wouldn't prescribe the sub's unless i follow his directions...what is up w/ this???i would think any doctor would welcome a drug user who actually wants to be off drugs, would work w/ them on that goal....and based on my readings here that seem to go back several years; the shorter the better w/ the suboxone...
    My question is will this lower amount of the sub's that i am taking show up percentage/dose wise, in my weekly drug tests w/ him? Does anyone know?...i'm afraid if it does show up, he will cut me off the treatment....any help from anyone will greatly help me....what irony!!!
    as far as tomorrow, i will take the 4mg twice tomorrow and let you know how it goes, robert
    also, for anyone out there in my shoes, or is considering this; i have to say that today my symptoms were definitely better then yesterday and no one could ever have convinced me of this, ever.....but it is simply the truth...it's worth the effort and hard work, if you're willing....
    peace, lilly



    Hi lilly ... freakin drs pi$$ me off when they talk that garbage. Musicman is right, just tell the dr what he wants to hear and go on about your business. I can tell you that every single person who has followed the instructions you are receiving has done well. I guarantee you we deal with as many sub patients as the drs do and our people don't relapse. By the time your dr knows what you're doing you will be clean and he will be out another patient and the income it brings him. Just keep your mouth closed, get your script, nod yes when he asks a question and keep doing like you're doing. Let me know how you feel tomorrow night. You will stay at 8mg for four days and then we'll drop you to 6mg. You're doing great, just continue to follow the suggestions and you will be another sub success story shortly. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Hi lilly ... freakin drs pi$$ me off when they talk that garbage. Musicman is right, just tell the dr what he wants to hear and go on about your business. I can tell you that every single person who has followed the instructions you are receiving has done well. I guarantee you we deal with as many sub patients as the drs do and our people don't relapse. By the time your dr knows what you're doing you will be clean and he will be out another patient and the income it brings him. Just keep your mouth closed, get your script, nod yes when he asks a question and keep doing like you're doing. Let me know how you feel tomorrow night. You will stay at 8mg for four days and then we'll drop you to 6mg. You're doing great, just continue to follow the suggestions and you will be another sub success story shortly. God bless.
    hi melinda, musicman and robert...thanx all of you for responding...i've been feeling very low/discouraged since that doctor's visit and the cravings for my bottle of laudanum are calling out to me to make me feel better, more than you know....or perhaps you do know....my god, i have been w/out an opiate for 6 days now.....the longest i've gone in at least 10 years and that whole experience just makes me feel like i'm fooling myself w/ all of my recent conviction and "one hour at a time/sheer will" mind-set....there always seems to be some trigger or another, and i instantly just want to feel the old way, that the opiates make me feel....i miss it still so much, no matter how hard i have been trying....i swear to god....i just hope i can do this and that it will work for me...
    As far as MM and Roberts comments about just "telling the doctor what he wants to hear/nodding my head and agreeing".....well, that brought a little sense of levity/irony and actually made me laugh out loud; seeing as that is exactly what i was so good at in the past; i.e., fooling my doctors.....really, i can't think of anything more ironic or moronic, depending on how you look at it....it's partly what got me into all this to begin w/ LOL!!!....now, i can only hope it will help get me out of this living hell, because i'm feeling pretty defeated, not too mention i still want to use, no matter how much better the w/d is getting...
    thanx again for reaching out; you guys are currently my only lifeline besides my weekly therapist and the one sister i've finally confided in.....
    peace, lilly

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by melinda7.5 View Post
    Hi Lilly
    OMG...I'm so glad you found this place.There are so many people that have a hard time after being on subs for a long time.These doctors need there A$$ kicked...
    Im sorry I don't know the answer to your ? but Robert or Musicman Will...
    Your story just gave me goose bumps...
    I'm glad your feeling better...you will be over this soon and you wont have to worry about that doctor anymore...
    Talk to you soon, Melinda
    melinda, quick question....what is the best way to utilize or navigate this site?...i think i'm doing it the least ineffective way...i click on "Community" on the top tool bar, then i click on "Xanax and Suboxone" which i think is what is called an individual "thread"....is this correct and does it limit my ability to network w/in this site?....I see the title "Need to Talk" on the left side of the opening page and wasn't sure if this is where i'm suppose to be...then i've seen references to people starting their own "Threads" and i'm not sure what this really means.....sorry to sound so dim-witted; i use a computer everyday at work and home....but am still unsure of how best to optimize my efforts on this site....seeing as i've only just started on here about a week ago.....
    so any help/directions if you have the time, would greatly be appreciated, as i think i'm gonna need a lot of help and information this coming weekend!!!
    peace, Lilly

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilly555 View Post
    melinda, quick question....what is the best way to utilize or navigate this site?...i think i'm doing it the least ineffective way...i click on "Community" on the top tool bar, then i click on "Xanax and Suboxone" which i think is what is called an individual "thread"....is this correct and does it limit my ability to network w/in this site?....I see the title "Need to Talk" on the left side of the opening page and wasn't sure if this is where i'm suppose to be...then i've seen references to people starting their own "Threads" and i'm not sure what this really means.....sorry to sound so dim-witted; i use a computer everyday at work and home....but am still unsure of how best to optimize my efforts on this site....seeing as i've only just started on here about a week ago.....
    so any help/directions if you have the time, would greatly be appreciated, as i think i'm gonna need a lot of help and information this coming weekend!!!
    peace, Lilly
    Hi lilly
    When I started this site,I was so lost I was in panic mode trying to find my thread.
    Now I have drugs.com in my favorites.I'm on here so much I just hit todays posts...but if you want to start a new thread you will have to go to like need to talk and there should see start a new thread.
    I will be around all weekend I'm having company coming this Tuesday,so I will be cleaning all weekend,so just post I will see you in no time at all.
    Let me know I would love to help you...
    Talk soon, Melinda

  14. #194
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    To get to the "today's posts" that melinda is referring to just click on the "Quick Links" located right under the COMMUNITY where you click to pull up all the different forums. When you click on the "Quick Links" there will be a drop down of different things you can go to. Today's posts are the first thing that will be listed. You can also change your settings on your profile so others can send emails to you through the site without posting your email address and do several things by clicking on the Quick Links.

    Once you decide which threads you want to keep up to date with regarding new replies adjust the Notification Type to "instant email notification" under the Additional Options just under the reply box when you post a reply. Then anytime someone posts a reply to that particular thread drugs.com will send you an email with a copy of the new reply so you can keep up with all new posts and know if you want to reply again. This is called subscribing to a particular thread.

    You can subscribe to all the threads you post on if you so desire. Then you don't miss anything on those threads. Only thing is once drugs.com emails you of new replies you have to go to the thread on the forum and pull it up before they will send you anymore new notifications of additional replies. They make it very simple for you to keep up with new replies to your threads of interest. Then you just check the Quick Links for the posts made today that you may not be subscribed to as well. It's all very simple once you do it a few times. Hope that helps. God bless.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 02-06-2009 at 01:41 AM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    To get to the "today's posts" that melinda is referring to just click on the "Quick Links" located right under the COMMUNITY where you click to pull up all the different forums. When you click on the "Quick Links" there will be a drop down of different things you can go to. Today's posts are the first thing that will be listed. You can also change your settings on your profile so others can send emails to you through the site without posting your email address and do several things by clicking on the Quick Links.

    Once you decide which threads you want to keep up to date with regarding new replies adjust the Notification Type to "instant email notification" under the Additional Options just under the reply box when you post a reply. Then anytime someone posts a reply to that particular thread drugs.com will send you an email with a copy of the new reply so you can keep up with all new posts and know if you want to reply again. This is called subscribing to a particular thread.

    You can subscribe to all the threads you post on if you so desire. Then you don't miss anything on those threads. Only thing is once drugs.com emails you of new replies you have to go to the thread on the forum and pull it up before they will send you anymore new notifications of additional replies. They make it very simple for you to keep up with new replies to your threads of interest. Then you just check the Quick Links for the posts made today that you may not be subscribed to as well. It's all very simple once you do it a few times. Hope that helps. God bless.
    hi robert and melinda...thank you both for explaining all of this; i actually never knew any of this!!!So i think all of these specifics will certainly help out many other newbies to this site as well; that is if they can find this "thread"...LOL....
    anyway, took the 4mgs at 8:30 a.m and am at work...having rolling anxiety ( something i need to discuss at another time; i.e. my genetic/family tree's history; from gramma, mom, all siblings,etc...some severe and requiring hospitalizations; some just managing w/ daily benzos for life)....i only mention all this becuz i think my past 3 days of heart racing sensation ( still happening) is maybe the general anxiety that i already have had thru'out my life; but i think i masked all those symptoms over these years w/ my opiates; therfore, i haven't had to feel any of these things....does this make sense?......cuz when i'm on my opiates, everything is mellower, slower, and i thought, manageable.....what do you think on this theory?.....I ask becuz my shrink and the doctor yesterday all said this heart pounding/racing that i'm still feeling isn't due to W/D or the suboxone....cuz i'm now on day 7 w/out an opiate and day 6 on the sub's...PLEASE if you have any thoughts on this, it would really help me put some of my frenetic racing mind to rest; well, at least on this subject anyway.....
    also, am still very unsure about this whole process and am still quite shaken from what the doctor told me and questioning if this is even gonna work for me....much less if i can do it....trying very hard not too think about taking something....i guess this is the cravings again.....
    thanx again all of you; you are incredible people to be helping so many others, i mean this most sincerely,
    peace, lilly

  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilly555 View Post
    hi robert and melinda...thank you both for explaining all of this; i actually never knew any of this!!!So i think all of these specifics will certainly help out many other newbies to this site as well; that is if they can find this "thread"...LOL....
    anyway, took the 4mgs at 8:30 a.m and am at work...having rolling anxiety ( something i need to discuss at another time; i.e. my genetic/family tree's history; from gramma, mom, all siblings,etc...some severe and requiring hospitalizations; some just managing w/ daily benzos for life)....i only mention all this becuz i think my past 3 days of heart racing sensation ( still happening) is maybe the general anxiety that i already have had thru'out my life; but i think i masked all those symptoms over these years w/ my opiates; therfore, i haven't had to feel any of these things....does this make sense?......cuz when i'm on my opiates, everything is mellower, slower, and i thought, manageable.....what do you think on this theory?.....I ask becuz my shrink and the doctor yesterday all said this heart pounding/racing that i'm still feeling isn't due to W/D or the suboxone....cuz i'm now on day 7 w/out an opiate and day 6 on the sub's...PLEASE if you have any thoughts on this, it would really help me put some of my frenetic racing mind to rest; well, at least on this subject anyway.....
    also, am still very unsure about this whole process and am still quite shaken from what the doctor told me and questioning if this is even gonna work for me....much less if i can do it....trying very hard not too think about taking something....i guess this is the cravings again.....
    thanx again all of you; you are incredible people to be helping so many others, i mean this most sincerely,
    peace, lilly
    robert...are you there?....
    if you have a moment, tell me your thoughts on my heart racing/pounding still.....i do have some.05 Xanax which i only take a half of now and then for sleep.....doc/therapist said i could take them for this while on the sub's, but wanted to check w/ you.....i feel like my heart is going to pound out of my chest......also, f.y.i....i've never been addicted nor into benzos; have always given them away or trade for perc's, if i ever had them; they really only make me tired; thus' occ' use for sleep......should i take one?
    help.....
    lilly

  17. #197
    musicman48 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilly555 View Post
    robert...are you there?....
    if you have a moment, tell me your thoughts on my heart racing/pounding still.....i do have some.05 Xanax which i only take a half of now and then for sleep.....doc/therapist said i could take them for this while on the sub's, but wanted to check w/ you.....i feel like my heart is going to pound out of my chest......also, f.y.i....i've never been addicted nor into benzos; have always given them away or trade for perc's, if i ever had them; they really only make me tired; thus' occ' use for sleep......should i take one?
    help.....
    lilly
    Lilly,It appears that Robert is not online at the moment but I can help you.Go ahead and take .25 mg of your xanax "half a pill" it will be ok this time.It should calm you down a little.My heart raced a little too during the first week of suboxone therapy.You can take the xanax this time and when Robert gets back he can advise you what to do in the future with your xanax.Of course you know you don't want to start taking it everyday.Go ahead and take a half pill for now.You will be fine.I took .25 mg on 2 occasions while on sub.let us know how you do.MM

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    Quote Originally Posted by musicman48 View Post
    Lilly,It appears that Robert is not online at the moment but I can help you.Go ahead and take .25 mg of your xanax "half a pill" it will be ok this time.It should calm you down a little.My heart raced a little too during the first week of suboxone therapy.You can take the xanax this time and when Robert gets back he can advise you what to do in the future with your xanax.Of course you know you don't want to start taking it everyday.Go ahead and take a half pill for now.You will be fine.I took .25 mg on 2 occasions while on sub.let us know how you do.MM
    musicman!......thank you for your reply....i've been freaking or tweeking out; am not sure which......also, since my 4mg of sub's at 8:30 a.m., i was feeling o.k, except for this heart pounding.....anyway around 11:30 i started to get some waves of chills and hot flushes....they are still coming and going....and i'm a bit uncomfortable physically and can't seem to stay focused at my job; keep having to get up and down and pace and get water, etc....
    my question; should i take any additional suboxone, as this is my first day at the 4mg....i swear to god, i am not "drug-seeking" (tho', i'm sure some of this is psychological), but these symptoms are very real and very physical; you can see my hair standing up on my arms and i'm wearing a sweater and sitting w/ a floor heater at my desk......i am soooo uncomfortable and feel like i'm going to come out of my own skin...
    any suggestions?...i will wait to hear from you, robert or melinda.....
    thank you again, peace, lilly

  19. #199
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilly555 View Post
    musicman!......thank you for your reply....i've been freaking or tweeking out; am not sure which......also, since my 4mg of sub's at 8:30 a.m., i was feeling o.k, except for this heart pounding.....anyway around 11:30 i started to get some waves of chills and hot flushes....they are still coming and going....and i'm a bit uncomfortable physically and can't seem to stay focused at my job; keep having to get up and down and pace and get water, etc....
    my question; should i take any additional suboxone, as this is my first day at the 4mg....i swear to god, i am not "drug-seeking" (tho', i'm sure some of this is psychological), but these symptoms are very real and very physical; you can see my hair standing up on my arms and i'm wearing a sweater and sitting w/ a floor heater at my desk......i am soooo uncomfortable and feel like i'm going to come out of my own skin...
    any suggestions?...i will wait to hear from you, robert or melinda.....
    thank you again, peace, lilly



    Lilly ... I have been away from the computer for a while this morning. Had some personal business I had to attend to. It's okay that you took the xanax like musicman suggested. In fact if you need to take another .25mg dose. It's obvious you're freaking out and the xanax won't hurt you at this point.

    Let me emphasize what is happening here with the suboxone. I understand that you are feeling anxiety, that your heart is pounding fast. But please understand that what I'm about to say is in your best interest, I know what I'm talking about on this subject. I know the symptoms you are feeling are physical but try to follow what I'm saying here and understand.

    First of all lowering your morning dose from 6mg to 4mg DID NOT cause this to happen. It's impossible. Suboxone has way too long of a half life for you to feel such a minimal reduction from one little dose. This dr got it implanted in your mind that you need a ridiculous dose of suboxone and your allowing your mind to run wild with whether or not you can do this. It's very simple, YOU CAN DO IT !!! But you have to get control of your emotions and realize that this is a mental thing at this point.

    Had you allowed me to do the induction with you right from the start like I wanted to do you would have NEVER taken a dose over 8mg even on the first day. You've got to RELAX !!! You're going to be just fine but you have got to have some faith in what I'm telling you and have some faith in yourself that you can handle this. I'm not saying that what you're feeling isn't real, but what I'm saying is that these feelings you're experiencing are being brought on by your emotional instability where this therapy is concerned. This is exactly why I BEG people to let me walk them through the induction. This exact same thing happens repeatedly when drs get it instilled in people's minds that they actually require these ridiculous amounts of medication. You DON'T need to continue taking 10mg. I will not set you up for failure or set you up to be on this medication for an extended period of time. I will only tell you what is the right thing to do where the suboxone is concerned.

    Get control of your emotions. You can't be running around bouncing off the walls wondering on an hourly basis if you can do this. You will not be successful doing this if you can't convince yourself to have faith in what I'm telling you. You're allowing what you've been told in the past to affect your thought process and that has to stop. This is not a big deal. You just need a couple days at this 8mg dose under your belt and you'll be fine. Today is Friday and then you'll have the weekend to get some peace and quiet. In the meantime take another dose of the xanax and try to smooth out some. It's not that long before it will be time to take your next dose of suboxone again. But you need to stay at the 8mg dose today and don't go back up again to 10mg. 2mg is nothing but psychological at this point I promise you. Give this another week, we'll have your dose down even lower and you will be thanking me for not giving in and telling you to stick this out. I've been down this same road with too many people. I know what I'm telling you is correct. God bless.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  20. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilly555 View Post
    musicman!......thank you for your reply....i've been freaking or tweeking out; am not sure which......also, since my 4mg of sub's at 8:30 a.m., i was feeling o.k, except for this heart pounding.....anyway around 11:30 i started to get some waves of chills and hot flushes....they are still coming and going....and i'm a bit uncomfortable physically and can't seem to stay focused at my job; keep having to get up and down and pace and get water, etc....
    my question; should i take any additional suboxone, as this is my first day at the 4mg....i swear to god, i am not "drug-seeking" (tho', i'm sure some of this is psychological), but these symptoms are very real and very physical; you can see my hair standing up on my arms and i'm wearing a sweater and sitting w/ a floor heater at my desk......i am soooo uncomfortable and feel like i'm going to come out of my own skin...
    any suggestions?...i will wait to hear from you, robert or melinda.....
    thank you again, peace, lilly
    Hi lilly
    Please believe me, I promise it will be ok...I have never taken the soboxone,But I have went thru the w/d process and it does cause anxiety...
    Robert is right about getting a hold of your emotions its just your mind playing tricks on you.
    Your mind is telling you. OH no what are you going to do your cutting down on your drugs I'm never going to make it ...
    That's what gets your heart pounding and allot of other crazy symptoms.
    Just tell yourself its going to be ok ,I WILL do this and I will come out of this a much stronger person than I was before...
    Just take it one hour at a time and move right thru this.
    It wont last very long and you will be so happy when its over.
    Just think of it like it's a broken leg and you need time to heal...
    Talk to you soon, Melinda

  21. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by melinda7.5 View Post
    Hi lilly
    Please believe me, I promise it will be ok...I have never taken the soboxone,But I have went thru the w/d process and it does cause anxiety...
    Robert is right about getting a hold of your emotions its just your mind playing tricks on you.
    Your mind is telling you. OH no what are you going to do your cutting down on your drugs I'm never going to make it ...
    That's what gets your heart pounding and allot of other crazy symptoms.
    Just tell yourself its going to be ok ,I WILL do this and I will come out of this a much stronger person than I was before...
    Just take it one hour at a time and move right thru this.
    It wont last very long and you will be so happy when its over.
    Just think of it like it's a broken leg and you need time to heal...
    Talk to you soon, Melinda
    melinda...thank you....i needed your words.....i am actually feeling better right now....and your kindness and support only encouraged more of this feeling.....i am actually more blown away from robert's rather harsh tone/expressing frustration directed at me;, which in my current rather vulnerable state, is a bit unsettling for me, as i had felt rather safe and secure opening myself up so much and putting myself out there....i do believe he has a good heart, and has only the best intentions; the proof is in some of my readings....and i know he's out there blindly (internet) trying to help everyone.., w/out knowing everyone's story/background, etc. and that's o.k......but w/ that said; for me and my own background ; i've humbly admitted i'm in therapy, that i'm confused, scared, emotional, have issues,etc., and admitted i know most of these panic feelings are psychological; but expressing and sharing this is part of the cathartic process that i had hoped this site might provide me w/.....am i wrong?....( additional background/history on me; i worked 10 yrs as a counselor and have had 1 year of grad work in counseling, (please don't laugh) coupled w/ on and off therapy of my own; and coming from a very dysfunctional family background, complete w/ every and ALL forms of abuse....well, let's just say this; i am not a "poor pitiful me" type person; i am a survivor of many things...i've also been legally emancipated since i was 16 yrs old; worked 3 jobs while putting myself thru' college, had some good jobs in social work, got married to a wife beater, got divorced and have raised 2 kids for 12 years completely alone and am now doing sales to pay the bills....tho' barely)..... but yes, i have many emotional issues and w/ what i'm currently going thru', much more sensitive/fragile than normal).....i know none of us know each other (?)....but i am trusting and "going along" w/ every direction since day 4...still, i need to share/grow/learn and that is what i thought i was doing....then i got roberts post and i truly felt saddened, let down and disappointed; i do believe his heart has to be in the right place or he wouldn't be devoting so much time and effort to helping people, but honestly, i felt abandoned, judged, criticized,etc....i do not want to project on him my own issues, in a fit of anger or rage, filled w/ mean spirited or verbal abuse...it's just not in me......i want to try this effort of just saying how i feel after that post and lay it out there for some communication, clarity and hopefully understanding....
    This stage for everyone is different, i know....but gentleness, sensitivity goes a long way.....i do take complete responsibility for my own feelings and do not project them on anyone, as i've learned i can only control or be responsible for my own actions, not those of others...however, i still have to acknowledge how i'm feeling for what it's worth....and the fact is that i am feeling a bit abandoned or criticized in this journey; yes, most of that is ME...i do know myself and the journey i've been on and how i am able to cope/adjust and manage.....o.k. now i sound all goofy spiritual, but anyone who does know me, has always said i am a genuine, sincere and heartfelt person....those are the compliments i value more than any i can ever receive, becuz it is the truth about me.....
    and in sharing all this, once again i've risked being vulnerable...but maybe i'll learn something valuable....or in the old days ( or at least, before the past 7 sober days!) i would run for the opiates to not feel again or to just go w/ the flow....but i honestly do not want to do that.....and so far, even w/ all my whinning today, i have stuck to roberts directions.....i guess my question to you melinda and to you robert ( i don't want to have to re-type and re-address all of this) is where do i go from here....am i just too sensitive of a person to work w/ robert.....am i too frustrating of a nutcase for him? etc....LOL...i am willing to do the work, but i do know i need a little more gentleness,etc., ...at least at this stage right now......so would one of you let me know what you think is best?
    i ask this in all sincerity w/ no malice, judgement, anger or acusation...honestly and truly.....i just want this to work for everyone involved.....
    peace, lilly

  22. #202
    musicman48 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilly555 View Post
    melinda...thank you....i needed your words.....i am actually feeling better right now....and your kindness and support only encouraged more of this feeling.....i am actually more blown away from robert's rather harsh tone/expressing frustration directed at me;, which in my current rather vulnerable state, is a bit unsettling for me, as i had felt rather safe and secure opening myself up so much and putting myself out there....i do believe he has a good heart, and has only the best intentions; the proof is in some of my readings....and i know he's out there blindly (internet) trying to help everyone.., w/out knowing everyone's story/background, etc. and that's o.k......but w/ that said; for me and my own background ; i've humbly admitted i'm in therapy, that i'm confused, scared, emotional, have issues,etc., and admitted i know most of these panic feelings are psychological; but expressing and sharing this is part of the cathartic process that i had hoped this site might provide me w/.....am i wrong?....( additional background/history on me; i worked 10 yrs as a counselor and have had 1 year of grad work in counseling, (please don't laugh) coupled w/ on and off therapy of my own; and coming from a very dysfunctional family background, complete w/ every and ALL forms of abuse....well, let's just say this; i am not a "poor pitiful me" type person; i am a survivor of many things...i've also been legally emancipated since i was 16 yrs old; worked 3 jobs while putting myself thru' college, had some good jobs in social work, got married to a wife beater, got divorced and have raised 2 kids for 12 years completely alone and am now doing sales to pay the bills....tho' barely)..... but yes, i have many emotional issues and w/ what i'm currently going thru', much more sensitive/fragile than normal).....i know none of us know each other (?)....but i am trusting and "going along" w/ every direction since day 4...still, i need to share/grow/learn and that is what i thought i was doing....then i got roberts post and i truly felt saddened, let down and disappointed; i do believe his heart has to be in the right place or he wouldn't be devoting so much time and effort to helping people, but honestly, i felt abandoned, judged, criticized,etc....i do not want to project on him my own issues, in a fit of anger or rage, filled w/ mean spirited or verbal abuse...it's just not in me......i want to try this effort of just saying how i feel after that post and lay it out there for some communication, clarity and hopefully understanding....
    This stage for everyone is different, i know....but gentleness, sensitivity goes a long way.....i do take complete responsibility for my own feelings and do not project them on anyone, as i've learned i can only control or be responsible for my own actions, not those of others...however, i still have to acknowledge how i'm feeling for what it's worth....and the fact is that i am feeling a bit abandoned or criticized in this journey; yes, most of that is ME...i do know myself and the journey i've been on and how i am able to cope/adjust and manage.....o.k. now i sound all goofy spiritual, but anyone who does know me, has always said i am a genuine, sincere and heartfelt person....those are the compliments i value more than any i can ever receive, becuz it is the truth about me.....
    and in sharing all this, once again i've risked being vulnerable...but maybe i'll learn something valuable....or in the old days ( or at least, before the past 7 sober days!) i would run for the opiates to not feel again or to just go w/ the flow....but i honestly do not want to do that.....and so far, even w/ all my whinning today, i have stuck to roberts directions.....i guess my question to you melinda and to you robert ( i don't want to have to re-type and re-address all of this) is where do i go from here....am i just too sensitive of a person to work w/ robert.....am i too frustrating of a nutcase for him? etc....LOL...i am willing to do the work, but i do know i need a little more gentleness,etc., ...at least at this stage right now......so would one of you let me know what you think is best?
    i ask this in all sincerity w/ no malice, judgement, anger or acusation...honestly and truly.....i just want this to work for everyone involved.....
    peace, lilly
    Lilly,With all do respect.I have been accused of the same thing. We mean no disrepect..I am sorry this person no longer wants me or Robert to help them.Trust me"they will need us" Helping people is not easy.It is frustrating.You really need to try to relax.The worst part of your sub side effects are almost over.These problems you are having will be over in a few days.Robert is the foremost authority on suboxone on thiis forum.You are lucky to have him.It would be in your best interest to just listen to him.Put your personal feelings aside for now.Good luck.

  23. #203
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Default Lilly

    I am sorry if I hurt your feelings. That was not nor is it ever my intention. I must say however in my own behalf that I just went back and read my last posts to you, including the ones on your other thread, and all I have done is be supportive and encouraging towards you. I am not a person who wears kid gloves but I have been accurate regarding the dosing instructions you've previously received, the psychological aspect of your symptoms, and the induction not being done as I had originally suggested. I even pointed out the similarities to your's and Simon's inductions and pointed out that you would be successful as he is being. I might have hurt your feelings stating that the greatest part of your distress was from your emotional reaction to the opiate detox but that was not done in a hurtful manner.

    This is life and death helping people get clean. I take it very seriously. With all due respect for your time as a counselor and as a parent you are not familiar with my background either. Believe me I've spent plenty of time working with recovering addicts on and off this forum in the free world and in prison ministries. I also put myself through college, adopted two children from a previous wife and raised those children as well as two others. Prior to getting clean I held a 9mm to my own head and cocked it ready to fire but I survived. I've been through depression and doubting my ability to survive addiction. I know the frustration, but I also realize the gravity of the situation. I understand that this is a very serious matter and that if someone gets their feelings hurt but they get clean and don't end up in a graveyard then I was successful if I played even a small part in that person surviving this disease.

    I know how to use and taper off suboxone successfully. I am not going to ask for forgiveness when all that I've tried to do is help you. I haven't been hurtful or criticizing. I've simply explained what you need to do in order to be successful. I'm actually a little insulted myself that you would be so critical of me when I've tried so hard to be of benefit to you. I've been on this thread checking on you at every opportunity for the last two solid days. And I do nothing blindly, I have purpose and direction in everything I do. I will continue to help you if you wish to continue following my suggestions. That will have to be your decision. God bless.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 02-07-2009 at 12:01 AM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  24. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilly555 View Post
    melinda...thank you....i needed your words.....i am actually feeling better right now....and your kindness and support only encouraged more of this feeling.....i am actually more blown away from robert's rather harsh tone/expressing frustration directed at me;, which in my current rather vulnerable state, is a bit unsettling for me, as i had felt rather safe and secure opening myself up so much and putting myself out there....i do believe he has a good heart, and has only the best intentions; the proof is in some of my readings....and i know he's out there blindly (internet) trying to help everyone.., w/out knowing everyone's story/background, etc. and that's o.k......but w/ that said; for me and my own background ; i've humbly admitted i'm in therapy, that i'm confused, scared, emotional, have issues,etc., and admitted i know most of these panic feelings are psychological; but expressing and sharing this is part of the cathartic process that i had hoped this site might provide me w/.....am i wrong?....( additional background/history on me; i worked 10 yrs as a counselor and have had 1 year of grad work in counseling, (please don't laugh) coupled w/ on and off therapy of my own; and coming from a very dysfunctional family background, complete w/ every and ALL forms of abuse....well, let's just say this; i am not a "poor pitiful me" type person; i am a survivor of many things...i've also been legally emancipated since i was 16 yrs old; worked 3 jobs while putting myself thru' college, had some good jobs in social work, got married to a wife beater, got divorced and have raised 2 kids for 12 years completely alone and am now doing sales to pay the bills....tho' barely)..... but yes, i have many emotional issues and w/ what i'm currently going thru', much more sensitive/fragile than normal).....i know none of us know each other (?)....but i am trusting and "going along" w/ every direction since day 4...still, i need to share/grow/learn and that is what i thought i was doing....then i got roberts post and i truly felt saddened, let down and disappointed; i do believe his heart has to be in the right place or he wouldn't be devoting so much time and effort to helping people, but honestly, i felt abandoned, judged, criticized,etc....i do not want to project on him my own issues, in a fit of anger or rage, filled w/ mean spirited or verbal abuse...it's just not in me......i want to try this effort of just saying how i feel after that post and lay it out there for some communication, clarity and hopefully understanding....
    This stage for everyone is different, i know....but gentleness, sensitivity goes a long way.....i do take complete responsibility for my own feelings and do not project them on anyone, as i've learned i can only control or be responsible for my own actions, not those of others...however, i still have to acknowledge how i'm feeling for what it's worth....and the fact is that i am feeling a bit abandoned or criticized in this journey; yes, most of that is ME...i do know myself and the journey i've been on and how i am able to cope/adjust and manage.....o.k. now i sound all goofy spiritual, but anyone who does know me, has always said i am a genuine, sincere and heartfelt person....those are the compliments i value more than any i can ever receive, becuz it is the truth about me.....
    and in sharing all this, once again i've risked being vulnerable...but maybe i'll learn something valuable....or in the old days ( or at least, before the past 7 sober days!) i would run for the opiates to not feel again or to just go w/ the flow....but i honestly do not want to do that.....and so far, even w/ all my whinning today, i have stuck to roberts directions.....i guess my question to you melinda and to you robert ( i don't want to have to re-type and re-address all of this) is where do i go from here....am i just too sensitive of a person to work w/ robert.....am i too frustrating of a nutcase for him? etc....LOL...i am willing to do the work, but i do know i need a little more gentleness,etc., ...at least at this stage right now......so would one of you let me know what you think is best?
    i ask this in all sincerity w/ no malice, judgement, anger or acusation...honestly and truly.....i just want this to work for everyone involved.....
    peace, lilly
    Hi lilly
    I can remember when I was in w/d I was a mess, panic attacks, crying, Its a very hard thing to do...
    But if you listen to me on anything,,,Please listen to me on this.
    Robert ment you no harm he really cares for everyone on this forum.
    He takes time away from his own life to try to help other people that he doesen't even know.
    If people don't listen to him they can get all screwed up on those subs,I have seen people on here all the time that are on the wrong dose and are on them way to long.
    Robert has to get his point across to people so they know how serious it is.
    I think you just took his words the wrong way...

    I know you dont know me, But I know how good Robert is at this, in a few days you will be telling him how sorry you are and that your feeling great...
    just hang in there and you will see...
    So kick back and relax it's going to be ok...
    Talk to you later, Melinda
    Last edited by Anonymous; 02-07-2009 at 12:18 AM.

  25. #205
    mitchigan is offline Member
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    Default Lilly555

    Hi Lilly,

    Sorry to hear of your discomfort. As you said on your post the opiates seemed to make things mellower and this is very true. The absence of the drugs tends to give us all some panic attacks for short periods. Your brain is trying to program itself to the changes. I think what Robert was trying to get across is that this is, albeit uncomfortable, a common minor symptom of treatment. The good news is that this quickly dissipates in a day or two.Even with sub you're going to have to put up with some withdrawals. If you scroll some of the other posts you will see people that had the EXACT same feelings as you. Roberts advice was almost always the same, and true to his prediction the strange feelings subside quickly. I was complaining about panic attacks and heart racing after 2 weeks of being opiate free, but with Robert's taper you will probably do much better! You do have to understand (as we all do) that you're a little anxious and hyper-sensitive right now, that's to be expected. Believe me, there's nothing more important in your life than being successful with this treatment! It can be a bit of a pain, but we all understand and support your feelings. The good news is that with a proper taper this will pass very quickly. I find it amazing the complete turn-around people with your symptoms have after only a couples days working with MM & Robert. You seem like a very intelligent person and with your knowledge I'm sure you understand this isn't all wine and roses...lol. But if you can continue working with Robert you will probably feel much better by Monday. I know treatment can be a pain, but realize this is the best decision you will ever make. Please hang in there we're all rooting for you. Robert's taper plan is very aggressive in its nature but it seems to work well for all that follow it. I guess it comes down to being on the sub program for two years with your Dr. or less than a month with Roberts. I recommend the latter!
    I hope you know we all support and understand your concerns and everyone will be there to help you. Hope you're feeling better today, sometimes that's all it takes!
    As a "newly" detoxed person it's important to me to see you pull this off. Every success story seems to give me more stength and hope! You can do this for all of us!

    Best regards and hope,

    Greg

  26. #206
    Anonymous Guest

    Unhappy clarity and understanding

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    I am sorry if I hurt your feelings. That was not nor is it ever my intention. I must say however in my own behalf that I just went back and read my last posts to you, including the ones on your other thread, and all I have done is be supportive and encouraging towards you. I am not a person who wears kid gloves but I have been accurate regarding the dosing instructions you've previously received, the psychological aspect of your symptoms, and the induction not being done as I had originally suggested. I even pointed out the similarities to your's and Simon's inductions and pointed out that you would be successful as he is being. I might have hurt your feelings stating that the greatest part of your distress was from your emotional reaction to the opiate detox but that was not done in a hurtful manner.

    This is life and death helping people get clean. I take it very seriously. With all due respect for your time as a counselor and as a parent you are not familiar with my background either. Believe me I've spent plenty of time working with recovering addicts on and off this forum in the free world and in prison ministries. I also put myself through college, adopted two children from a previous wife and raised those children as well as two others. Prior to getting clean I held a 9mm to my own head and cocked it ready to fire but I survived. I've been through depression and doubting my ability to survive addiction. I know the frustration, but I also realize the gravity of the situation. I understand that this is a very serious matter and that if someone gets their feelings hurt but they get clean and don't end up in a graveyard then I was successful if I played even a small part in that person surviving this disease.

    I know how to use and taper off suboxone successfully. I am not going to ask for forgiveness when all that I've tried to do is help you. I haven't been hurtful or criticizing. I've simply explained what you need to do in order to be successful. I'm actually a little insulted myself that you would be so critical of me when I've tried so hard to be of benefit to you. I've been on this thread checking on you at every opportunity for the last two solid days. And I do nothing blindly, I have purpose and direction in everything I do. I will continue to help you if you wish to continue following my suggestions. That will have to be your decision. God bless.
    Hi robert, MM and melinda......Whew....after re-reading all of these posts, i feel like i've been in a group therapy session and painful tho' it is at times, i for one have found this enlightening and therapeutic.....
    MM, thank you for your reply and support; after i read your post, i went and read various threads ref., what you were referring too.....i felt truly bad about some of the abusive or mean spirited energy and language directed at you and robert; obviously you two are much more"thick skinned" than i am....however, no matter what i'm feeling/going thru', i will never attack or direct abusive energy your (or anyone's) way....i might express my feelings; but never blame others for what i'm feeling....i make an effort everyday to "own" my life and what i am accountable for....i try to be kind to everyone and live my life w/ the best intentions....sometimes i succeed, sometimes i don't....i am not a perfect person, and my posts all acknowledge this.....but i wanted to share this w/ you in the spirit of true intent and appreciation for your support...

    Robert......thank you again for your time and efforts....and i am sorry you felt "insulted" and "criticized" by my reaching out ...i wish you knew me, as this was truly never my intention and if you re-read any of my previous posts, you will see my consistent acknowledgement of gratitude and appreciation of all that you do...for everyone, not just me.....i honestly was having a panic attack and reaching out for clarity and understanding about the new dose (1st day) at the 4mg of the sub'....and you were oh so right, that my visit to that dr., most definitly planted a subliminal seed of doubt/questioning in my mind and shook my conviction a bit....but i got thru' it and stuck w/ your directions of taking 4mgs a.m and p.m.......please know, i was just asking a question, i wasn't then going on and doing my own thing....and you have stated that is what frustrates you so much; i.e., all of us not following your directions, and rightfully so.....and other than my first 3 days, i have stuck like glue to you and your directions, i hope you know this.....
    Most importantly, please know i did not feel you owed me an apology for hurting my feelings, (however that was very generous of you) as i have said and know all too well, i am the only one responsible for how i feel, not anyone else....that awareness is one milestone in my growth over the years, that i have worked very hard on to get too....even w/ my ever present overly sensitive self.....all i can do is keep trying to grow and improve and i still have a long road ahead, in many areas of my life, much like everyone else.....
    and i agree w/ you, that we don't know each others stories, that is why i shared the cliff note version of mine yesterday....and again, i was humbled by your frankness and openness about just some of what you've been thru'....i hope you have a good support network, you can't always be the "giver/nurturer" etc., everyone needs a little support now and then, but i'm sure you know this..it sounds like your faith as a Christian has been your salvation and touchstone; i too am very spiritual, tho' i follow the Dalai Lama.....i too attempted suicide and nearly overdosed several times; but those are stories for another day....(ironicly, i also have volunteered w/ emotionally disturbed kids at a juvenile detention facility; i'm sure we can relate on that type of rewarding effort)..... also, i think you misunderstood what i meant when i said "blindly"...i was referring to the lack of "face to face" personal contact that the internet cannot provide or allow for....maybe i didn't word that very well....just wanted to clear that one up.........
    As far as continuing to work w/ you, i am more than willing; this is what i so awkwardly was trying to communicate; i.e., if my type of personality is going to work for you as well.....i'm sure you've seen all types, but again this is me acknowledging who i am; throwing it out there, my fears, doubts, confusion....does this make sense?...anyway, if you are willing so am ...and last you directed, if i'm not mistaken, i am to stay at the 4mg twice a day for the next week or so, is that right?.....As of this morning; i took my 4mg of the sub and am feeling a tiny bit better than yesterday, tho' still having that heart racing sensation ( oh, i did speak to my therapist this a.m and she agreed this is anxiety and she sees it quite often w/ her other clients on the suboxone; suggested i take smallest amount of xanax if needed, like you did)....and as rough as this has been, i have to admitt, you/everyone is right about each day getting better; tho' in the moment when you're having a hard time, it's hard to believe that....if one other person is reading this, i hope this helps a little....

    Please let me know your thoughts......and again, god bless you.
    peace, lilly

    Melinda....i also have to thank you too...you are incredible w/ your kindness and support....have you ever considered counseling?...you certainly have the skill set that would make you shine at this, if ever you are so inclined...
    i have often thought about going back to school to finish my Masters in counseling or social work....or more recently, maybe get a LADC certification down the road so i can help others as well....but i am a long way off from that thought, at least at this current time in my life....."one day at a time" is so true....i've meditated on the serenity prayer this morning and got a tiny boost.....i will keep trying, please don't give up on me.......again, i can't thank you all enough....
    peace to all, lilly

  27. #207
    Anonymous Guest

    Default

    Hi lilly
    I'm so glad you came back and that your feeling a little better today.
    It's going to get better everyday now,
    We have all been right where you are now,Its scary(the unknown)

    I think you would be good at counseling also, I can tell you have a kind soul.
    And you don't have to worry about me giving up on you.LOL
    It would be more like I would be looking for you to make sure you are OK.
    I will be praying for you.
    Talk to you soon, Melinda

    P.S. It's going to be a good day

  28. #208
    Robert_325 is offline Retired
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    Default Lilly

    Sure I will be happy to continue to work with you. This is a ministry for me. I was shown mercy for my past life and was made a new creature through God's grace. I have to demonstrate the same mercy to others that I've been blessed with. I want to see you get totally clean and off the suboxone too.

    Most all of us have a difficult time going through a detox off drugs of any kind. Opiates make us feel like we are going to die, but we don't. And most all of us go off the handle a little at times with frustration and real physical pain from w/d. I had to be slapped around a little myself when I was getting clean as I refused to listen to anyone. And I do realize that you've followed instructions to the letter since we finally began working together. I won't question that at all. When I am a little harsh at times it truly is done with a good heart. I really am trying to help save people regardless of personal feelings be it their's or mine. It's that important that we succeed.

    I'm sure we could share stories of work behind walls of correctional facilities. It's an unusual experience the first time you share your personal story with a big room full of convicts. So many police, prison officials, parole/probation officers know my story that I don't even worry about what I say in prisons or jails anymore. I let anonymity go out the window years ago.

    Your body needs to get some rest now seeing how the last few days have been so draining. You sound better today and staying at 8mg per day for a week is an excellent plan. The worst of your actual opiate detox will be over after two weeks so with the days you have been on subs so far and add another week you will be ready then to begin a slow taper down. If you feel a panic attack coming on take as much as .5mg of xanax at once. Just don't use it unless it's really necessary. There can be a drug interaction between buprenorphine (the drug in suboxone) and the xanax causing respiratory depression. So just keep it to a minimum. Stay in touch, God bless.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 02-07-2009 at 01:25 PM.
    I am not a dr. My statements are based on years of experience and related education. Consult with the professional of your choice regarding matters of concern.

  29. #209
    Anonymous Guest

    Default "Death Mask"

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchigan View Post
    Hi Lilly,

    Sorry to hear of your discomfort. As you said on your post the opiates seemed to make things mellower and this is very true. The absence of the drugs tends to give us all some panic attacks for short periods. Your brain is trying to program itself to the changes. I think what Robert was trying to get across is that this is, albeit uncomfortable, a common minor symptom of treatment. The good news is that this quickly dissipates in a day or two.Even with sub you're going to have to put up with some withdrawals. If you scroll some of the other posts you will see people that had the EXACT same feelings as you. Roberts advice was almost always the same, and true to his prediction the strange feelings subside quickly. I was complaining about panic attacks and heart racing after 2 weeks of being opiate free, but with Robert's taper you will probably do much better! You do have to understand (as we all do) that you're a little anxious and hyper-sensitive right now, that's to be expected. Believe me, there's nothing more important in your life than being successful with this treatment! It can be a bit of a pain, but we all understand and support your feelings. The good news is that with a proper taper this will pass very quickly. I find it amazing the complete turn-around people with your symptoms have after only a couples days working with MM & Robert. You seem like a very intelligent person and with your knowledge I'm sure you understand this isn't all wine and roses...lol. But if you can continue working with Robert you will probably feel much better by Monday. I know treatment can be a pain, but realize this is the best decision you will ever make. Please hang in there we're all rooting for you. Robert's taper plan is very aggressive in its nature but it seems to work well for all that follow it. I guess it comes down to being on the sub program for two years with your Dr. or less than a month with Roberts. I recommend the latter!
    I hope you know we all support and understand your concerns and everyone will be there to help you. Hope you're feeling better today, sometimes that's all it takes!
    As a "newly" detoxed person it's important to me to see you pull this off. Every success story seems to give me more stength and hope! You can do this for all of us!

    Best regards and hope,

    Greg

    hi greg...thank you for your encouragement, you seem to know exactly what i was going thru' and it is very reassuring to know this.....i just read some of your other posts and am amazed you were able to taper on the pills so well....i've tried many times but never could do it, then i got hooked additiionally on the laudanum, which is literally liquid opium; and so my story sounds a little like yours, except i was always glued to my sectional couch, not a recliner!..LOL..but w/ all of the same behavior patterns and isolation you've described......i have been thinking about getting off all these drugs for years and something just snapped in me in early Jan., and one day i googled opiate detox and came across drugs.com.....no one had ever told me about this site nor had i even heard about it before.....and i have only read a few "threads" so far.....i realized i might have gotten thru' yesterdays panic mode, a little easier if i read thru' simons journey, as he had very similiar symptoms....so i'm learning as i go and plan on trying to read a few more stories this weekend....it's like you and robert just said; reading about others who are going thru' this gives each of us some strength and hope...that is so true....i also find it a humbling lesson each time; forces me to really look in the mirror.....oh, and i LOL at your post about the "Death Mask".....it's only been 7 days off opiates for me (YEAH!) and already the puffiness in my face has gone down as well as the under eye bags....it's funny, i just didn't care for so long about how fastly i was aging; partly becuz i was just so numb to the world, partly becuz i've always looked younger than my years and i have never been a very vane person and now i already look more rested, tho' i still could use a little botox on the forehead...i am totally joking on that one!...
    ....also,your comment about the brain trying to re-program itself made a lot of sense and i like pondering just that thought for a moment, cuz it makes sense of so much of what we are all going thru'.
    also, i literally LOL at the "hyper-sensitive" observation on your part, due to the fact that i've been told that (exact phrase) my entire life and the humble part in me has to admitt it's true...tho' i've gotten better over the years...meditating helps me ...
    And believe it or not, today is the first weekend where i didn't sleep in until noon....i actually woke up at 7:30 and got myself out of bed.....watched the news, sent a long post to robert and all, then went out for a drive and did a few errands ( of course i did have to go out and get my suboxone refilled.......but all of this is such a drastic change from the past 10 years, when i never wanted to go anywhere, unless i had too.....Maybe it's this speedy feeling i was complaining about ( still happening), maybe a little of everything else; all i know, is that i'll take this over the other, anytime.....i too have been an opiate addict probably most of my life; ever since i was introduced to a Quualude when i was 16....ever since then, i always had that craving and when they were outlawed about 10 years later, i progressed to percocets and so many others for most of my 20's and 30's....and then about 10 years ago everything finally became a major daily huge amount habit..so like you, i've basically been an addict for over 30 years....i could go on and on, but that's for another day; plus, i'm sure you've heard it all before....
    oh, one last thing; ironicly, i grew up in michigan.....southwest part, tho' left around my early 20's and moved around the country.....used to love to go to lake michigan and Torch Lake up by Travers City....small world huh?
    anyway, thank you again for your support and i always welcome constructive feedback, it's good for all of us on this journey.....and your determination and progress has really given me a dose of hope for today....thank you.
    peace, lilly

  30. #210
    mitchigan is offline Member
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    Default It will only get better

    Hi Lilly,

    So happy that you seem to be having a MUCH better day!!
    So true that sometimes just knowing the nature of the beast seems to help so much! I too stumbled on this site and its provided what I can only describe as "enlightenment"! The knowledge, support, and understanding provided on this forum has really helped me. Also, you see there are so many good people struggling with the same issues as us and many others that have had great success with their problem, I'm sure we too can be a success story! Shortly you'll be hitting the downhill and things will get better rapidly. Not that there won't be the occasional stressed feeling but its a small price to pay for the rest of your life! I think just acknowledging and making a commitment to quit is half of the battle. Looking forward to seeing you even more chipper, I can tell you are an interesting person! Congrats to you and hang in there1

    Greg

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