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Xanax and Suboxone?
  1. #211
    mitchigan is offline Member
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    Default It will only get better

    Hi Lilly,

    So happy that you seem to be having a MUCH better day!!
    So true that sometimes just knowing the nature of the beast seems to help so much! I too stumbled on this site and its provided what I can only describe as "enlightenment"! The knowledge, support, and understanding provided on this forum has really helped me. Also, you see there are so many good people struggling with the same issues as us and many others that have had great success with their problem, I'm sure we too can be a success story! Shortly you'll be hitting the downhill and things will get better rapidly. Not that there won't be the occasional stressed feeling but its a small price to pay for the rest of your life! I think just acknowledging and making a commitment to quit is half of the battle. Looking forward to seeing you even more chipper, I can tell you are an interesting person! Congrats to you and hang in there!

    Greg

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Sure I will be happy to continue to work with you. This is a ministry for me. I was shown mercy for my past life and was made a new creature through God's grace. I have to demonstrate the same mercy to others that I've been blessed with. I want to see you get totally clean and off the suboxone too.

    Most all of us have a difficult time going through a detox off drugs of any kind. Opiates make us feel like we are going to die, but we don't. And most all of us go off the handle a little at times with frustration and real physical pain from w/d. I had to be slapped around a little myself when I was getting clean as I refused to listen to anyone. And I do realize that you've followed instructions to the letter since we finally began working together. I won't question that at all. When I am a little harsh at times it truly is done with a good heart. I really am trying to help save people regardless of personal feelings be it their's or mine. It's that important that we succeed.

    I'm sure we could share stories of work behind walls of correctional facilities. It's an unusual experience the first time you share your personal story with a big room full of convicts. So many police, prison officials, parole/probation officers know my story that I don't even worry about what I say in prisons or jails anymore. I let anonymity go out the window years ago.

    Your body needs to get some rest now seeing how the last few days have been so draining. You sound better today and staying at 8mg per day for a week is an excellent plan. The worst of your actual opiate detox will be over after two weeks so with the days you have been on subs so far and add another week you will be ready then to begin a slow taper down. If you feel a panic attack coming on take as much as .5mg of xanax at once. Just don't use it unless it's really necessary. There can be a drug interaction between buprenorphine (the drug in suboxone) and the xanax causing respiratory depression. So just keep it to a minimum. Stay in touch, God bless.
    Hi robert and all,
    just checking in on a monday morning while at work....i posted a few times this weekend, tho' i am still confused as to where it all goes as far as threads >> posts >> new threads, etc...and have read where others are confused on this too.....so i quess for now, i will continue my "checking in" and progress on this journey on this thread; if this is even indeed what it's called..however, i did take your suggestions to go to quick links and then new posts...that makes everything easier for me..
    i've been doing the 4mg per directed a.m. and late afternoon...still having that heart racing feeling, but am more familiar w/ it now so i'm managing it better (sometimes w/ the xanax) but i still can't stand that feeling; and was wondering if i should talk to my dr/therapist this week about switching to the subtex...i thought i read somewhere where you mentioned that is actually better for some people than the suboxone....what are your thoughts on this? And as far as everything else, everything is a little bit LESS intense than the past few days....so everyone who posted/supported me, was right as predicted!...another lesson learned for me....
    Also, robert, i tried to do some more reading on this site this weekend and came across some of your earlier posts when you first started...what an evolution...and an inspiration for us all...i was most struck by your willingness to be so open, vulnerable and humble...wish i was there, but i know it will take time....
    but actually what i was curious about, but haven't found/read yet; is how did you figure all of this out w/ the suboxone?...i.e.;
    like the proper dosages/induction/tapering etc.? I am very curious and fascinated about this and i think it will help me understand some of what i'm going thru' better...i understand if you're too busy today to go into a lot of detail...but any info would be greatly appreciated....as i am amazed how you were able to figure this complex stuff out ( either on your own journey w/ subtex or after, i'm not sure), and why don't more doctors know about this....it just makes so much more sense...
    if you get a chance, will you let me know?
    peace to all, lilly

  3. #213
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilly555 View Post
    Hi robert and all,
    just checking in on a monday morning while at work....i posted a few times this weekend, tho' i am still confused as to where it all goes as far as threads >> posts >> new threads, etc...and have read where others are confused on this too.....so i quess for now, i will continue my "checking in" and progress on this journey on this thread; if this is even indeed what it's called..however, i did take your suggestions to go to quick links and then new posts...that makes everything easier for me..
    i've been doing the 4mg per directed a.m. and late afternoon...still having that heart racing feeling, but am more familiar w/ it now so i'm managing it better (sometimes w/ the xanax) but i still can't stand that feeling; and was wondering if i should talk to my dr/therapist this week about switching to the subtex...i thought i read somewhere where you mentioned that is actually better for some people than the suboxone....what are your thoughts on this? And as far as everything else, everything is a little bit LESS intense than the past few days....so everyone who posted/supported me, was right as predicted!...another lesson learned for me....
    Also, robert, i tried to do some more reading on this site this weekend and came across some of your earlier posts when you first started...what an evolution...and an inspiration for us all...i was most struck by your willingness to be so open, vulnerable and humble...wish i was there, but i know it will take time....
    but actually what i was curious about, but haven't found/read yet; is how did you figure all of this out w/ the suboxone?...i.e.;
    like the proper dosages/induction/tapering etc.? I am very curious and fascinated about this and i think it will help me understand some of what i'm going thru' better...i understand if you're too busy today to go into a lot of detail...but any info would be greatly appreciated....as i am amazed how you were able to figure this complex stuff out ( either on your own journey w/ subtex or after, i'm not sure), and why don't more doctors know about this....it just makes so much more sense...
    if you get a chance, will you let me know?
    peace to all, lilly


    First the subutex >> suboxone. I always suggest subutex over suboxone unless a patient is an IV drug user. The naloxone is suboxone is only to keep patients from abusing the medication. Otherwise it serves NO purpose. Most all drs RX the suboxone for some reason and I disagree with them whole-heartedly. And that is too bad as lots of people react to the naloxone even though drs will almost always say I'm full of doo doo for saying that. They are the ones who are wrong. If your dr will give you the subutex by all means go for it.

    When I first started posting here a lot was after I had about six years clean and I had some dental problems. I figured that I could handle the pain meds the dentists always hand out with severe tooth pain. Man was I mistaken. Within ten days I was taking huge amounts of lorcets. The dr had given me antibiotics too and was letting them work before doing the extractions. Well I never even had the work done. I cancelled the dental work and I started on subutex immediately as I just didn't think I could handle another cold turkey detox. The previous one had almost killed me literally. Thats why I am finally having that dental work done now and with no pain meds.

    My sub dr was really a good dr. I still talk to him and actually give him some suggestions today. He is chief of staff at the largest rehab hospital in Houston but he is aware of what I've done with the subs and he isn't on an ego trip. He has no problem with asking questions about what works best. The one thing he did right was not RX a large dose for me. He inducted me the exact way that I recommend doing my inductions. That is why I know it's best to induct at the lowest dose possible. Beyond that I used trial and error to work out the system I recommend for others duplicating exactly what I did for myself. I did what I suggest for others on myself first.

    After watching so many people get clean using the same process I used it's become quite obvious that the way I advise people to use the subs is the way that works best. I'm not a dr but I will put our success ratio up against ANYONE in this industry. If a patient will do what we say they will get clean and will be off the subs without incident too. People like musicman and several others have followed the same process exactly and it worked for each of them too. I guess that is why I sometimes get a little short with people because I know what works and when people won't follow instructions and then wonder why they aren't having success it annoys me.

    I would try to make my methods more publicly known but quite realistically I would meet lots of criticism with people knowing I'm not a dr. They would bad mouth me saying my results have been based on improper trial methods and what not so I don't push it. If someone wants my suggestions I will give them gladly. But I have to realize that I am just a guy on a drug forum and that doesn't carry a lot of weight with the big drug companies and the people who are pushing their drugs in mass quantities. The salesmen tell drs to RX ridiculous amounts of subs to patients so they can sell more. It's wrong but that's the way life works. Most people are naturally motivated by greed next to survival. So they try to slam as many of their pills down addicts throats as they can. That is my opinion at least. God bless.

  4. #214
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    Default Everyone should read this!

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    First the subutex >> suboxone. I always suggest subutex over suboxone unless a patient is an IV drug user. The naloxone is suboxone is only to keep patients from abusing the medication. Otherwise it serves NO purpose. Most all drs RX the suboxone for some reason and I disagree with them whole-heartedly. And that is too bad as lots of people react to the naloxone even though drs will almost always say I'm full of doo doo for saying that. They are the ones who are wrong. If your dr will give you the subutex by all means go for it.

    When I first started posting here a lot was after I had about six years clean and I had some dental problems. I figured that I could handle the pain meds the dentists always hand out with severe tooth pain. Man was I mistaken. Within ten days I was taking huge amounts of lorcets. The dr had given me antibiotics too and was letting them work before doing the extractions. Well I never even had the work done. I cancelled the dental work and I started on subutex immediately as I just didn't think I could handle another cold turkey detox. The previous one had almost killed me literally. Thats why I am finally having that dental work done now and with no pain meds.

    My sub dr was really a good dr. I still talk to him and actually give him some suggestions today. He is chief of staff at the largest rehab hospital in Houston but he is aware of what I've done with the subs and he isn't on an ego trip. He has no problem with asking questions about what works best. The one thing he did right was not RX a large dose for me. He inducted me the exact way that I recommend doing my inductions. That is why I know it's best to induct at the lowest dose possible. Beyond that I used trial and error to work out the system I recommend for others duplicating exactly what I did for myself. I did what I suggest for others on myself first.

    After watching so many people get clean using the same process I used it's become quite obvious that the way I advise people to use the subs is the way that works best. I'm not a dr but I will put our success ratio up against ANYONE in this industry. If a patient will do what we say they will get clean and will be off the subs without incident too. People like musicman and several others have followed the same process exactly and it worked for each of them too. I guess that is why I sometimes get a little short with people because I know what works and when people won't follow instructions and then wonder why they aren't having success it annoys me.

    I would try to make my methods more publicly known but quite realistically I would meet lots of criticism with people knowing I'm not a dr. They would bad mouth me saying my results have been based on improper trial methods and what not so I don't push it. If someone wants my suggestions I will give them gladly. But I have to realize that I am just a guy on a drug forum and that doesn't carry a lot of weight with the big drug companies and the people who are pushing their drugs in mass quantities. The salesmen tell drs to RX ridiculous amounts of subs to patients so they can sell more. It's wrong but that's the way life works. Most people are naturally motivated by greed next to survival. So they try to slam as many of their pills down addicts throats as they can. That is my opinion at least. God bless.
    Robert,
    WOW! I am so happy you explained this to me; makes everything much more understandable for me...first, i never knew you had done CT and had been clean for 6 years, then did the subutex w/ a cool doc w/ no ego, who seemed to know what he was doing, and that is what led to this evolution of where you are today, filled w/ a wealth of information and first hand experience that can help so many of us out there...just that alone is huge for me...it represents reassurance and validation for me anyway.. and again, encouragement for me to have faith and believe this is possible...somehow, i have to get involved in building this awareness on such a crucial matter; like you said earlier; it is life and death...i plan on discussing some of this w/ my therapist this week, as she is very open minded, very experienced, has worked 20plus years in rehabs, hospitals, street meth clinics, etc and has no ego/power trip attitude at all...and the fact that the sub doc i'm seeing ( even tho' he is a bit clueless or indifferent; i'm not sure yet, which it is) has a great deal of respect for her opinion and experience in drug addiction....who knows; it might make a difference for a few others that they are jointly treating, like myself...i'll keep you posted on the progress on all that...
    anyway, i wanted to let you and anyone else out there, that this is a wealth of valuable information and it helped me in my journey today and how much i appreciate your time and patience explaining it to me.
    peace, lilly

  5. #215
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    Hi lilly
    Im sure glad your feeling better.
    I hope you know your thread is going to be a good one for other people that are having a hard time at first, they will see you had a hard time and now a couple days later your doing great.
    So keep up the good work my friend...

    Talk to you later, Melinda

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by melinda7.5 View Post
    Hi lilly
    Im sure glad your feeling better.
    I hope you know your thread is going to be a good one for other people that are having a hard time at first, they will see you had a hard time and now a couple days later your doing great.
    So keep up the good work my friend...

    Talk to you later, Melinda
    hey melinda....i just came across this note from you....what a treat, as i love your kind hearted words of support.....not just for me, but for everyone else on this site as well....i still say YOU should be a counselor!
    And i agree wholeheartedly w/ you, that many others could benefit and learn from my progress/evolution so far....but then again, that is what we are all doing here, i think..
    anyway, thanx for your support once again....
    peace, lilly

  7. #217
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilly555 View Post
    Robert,
    WOW! I am so happy you explained this to me; makes everything much more understandable for me...first, i never knew you had done CT and had been clean for 6 years, then did the subutex w/ a cool doc w/ no ego, who seemed to know what he was doing, and that is what led to this evolution of where you are today, filled w/ a wealth of information and first hand experience that can help so many of us out there...just that alone is huge for me...it represents reassurance and validation for me anyway.. and again, encouragement for me to have faith and believe this is possible...somehow, i have to get involved in building this awareness on such a crucial matter; like you said earlier; it is life and death...i plan on discussing some of this w/ my therapist this week, as she is very open minded, very experienced, has worked 20plus years in rehabs, hospitals, street meth clinics, etc and has no ego/power trip attitude at all...and the fact that the sub doc i'm seeing ( even tho' he is a bit clueless or indifferent; i'm not sure yet, which it is) has a great deal of respect for her opinion and experience in drug addiction....who knows; it might make a difference for a few others that they are jointly treating, like myself...i'll keep you posted on the progress on all that...
    anyway, i wanted to let you and anyone else out there, that this is a wealth of valuable information and it helped me in my journey today and how much i appreciate your time and patience explaining it to me.
    peace, lilly


    I would be very curious to see what your drs or therapists have to say about what we've shared. I'm always interested to hear drs' opinions of someone like myself. I've received lots of mixed reactions both positive and negative from the medical community. I have three different MDs who I personally talk to on other forums, email or in person.

    There are a few drs out there who realize there are others without MD designations that do actually know what they are talking about. I won't allow a dr disagreeing with me to affect me either way but it is cool when they are receptive to learned experience. Kindly let me know how it goes when you meet with them. And keep me posted how you're doing. I need to know how you are feeling so I can advise accordingly. God bless.

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by melinda7.5 View Post
    Hi lilly
    Im sure glad your feeling better.
    I hope you know your thread is going to be a good one for other people that are having a hard time at first, they will see you had a hard time and now a couple days later your doing great.
    So keep up the good work my friend...

    Talk to you later, Melinda
    hi melinda, robert and all....
    just checking in and feeling a bit sheepish having to admit these past few days i have been extremely emotional; more so than normal for even me...i hate it and have been crying way too easily about everything; i am trying to get ahold of my emotions and saw my therapist yesterday...she says this is all anxiety and that basically i have suppressed much of it for years by being on so much opiates, which simply mask anxiety....even tho' i know some of this is true and w/ my families history as well ( many members are on benzos for anxiety, tho' i never was)....
    i guess my question is, is this what everyone else goes thru' to some degree or another..i thought i read this here before...
    ...and will it get better?....or is this something that really has been dormant and even when/if i'm off the suboxone and stay clean off any opiates; am i always going to be feeling this intensity of emotions?..i know no one can tell me for sure, as everyone is so unique....I hate to sound like i'm complaining when i have so much to be grateful for, and i hope i don't sound too pathetic here...
    also, in the past few days i've had a few extreme triggers happen in my life; one in particular; i found out yesterday, that my company might close shop in a few months and i will be out of a job; just extra stress and it's making me more emotional....i hate crying uncontrollably and feel way too weak w/ this....any thoughts or experiences on this would really help me out.....
    also, trying the xanax here and there , but don't feel any major difference or improvement....
    any and all suggestions, support or feedback would be greatly appreciated...
    peace, Lilly

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    I would be very curious to see what your drs or therapists have to say about what we've shared. I'm always interested to hear drs' opinions of someone like myself. I've received lots of mixed reactions both positive and negative from the medical community. I have three different MDs who I personally talk to on other forums, email or in person.

    There are a few drs out there who realize there are others without MD designations that do actually know what they are talking about. I won't allow a dr disagreeing with me to affect me either way but it is cool when they are receptive to learned experience. Kindly let me know how it goes when you meet with them. And keep me posted how you're doing. I need to know how you are feeling so I can advise accordingly. God bless.
    hi robert....i was posting you and when i was done, i received yours....( i type very slowly as i have osteo-arthritis in my hands pretty bad)...
    i did talk about what i'm doing w/ the suboxone w/ you w/ my therapist yesterday.....she actually was very receptive and told me that as long as i am feeling fine w/ the suboxone, the lower the better....however, she did say that the dr. i'm using is very conservative and not the most open minded....she thinks ( and so do i) that we should fill him in when i am done w/ this program w/ you and hopefully he will be receptive to considering the same method for other people....she said she certainly would, if it works for me....she is also going to start reading some of these posts, which i think will help her and me immensely....so i will keep you posted....that would actually be pretty cool if she takes this and runs w/ it!
    peace, Lilly

  10. #220
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Lilly .... I agree with your therapist. We bury our feelings in drugs and when we get clean we have to learn how to deal with things all over again. NO you won't be crying about everything forever. lol At least you shouldn't be, but don't worry about it for now. It's completely normal when all these feelings start hitting you at once. Just take things one day at a time. Soon this will all be a memory, and it will be one that you can actually remember. And you won't want to repeat it so it helps us to stay clean, or at least that's the idea. Take care and God bless.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    I would be very curious to see what your drs or therapists have to say about what we've shared. I'm always interested to hear drs' opinions of someone like myself. I've received lots of mixed reactions both positive and negative from the medical community. I have three different MDs who I personally talk to on other forums, email or in person.

    There are a few drs out there who realize there are others without MD designations that do actually know what they are talking about. I won't allow a dr disagreeing with me to affect me either way but it is cool when they are receptive to learned experience. Kindly let me know how it goes when you meet with them. And keep me posted how you're doing. I need to know how you are feeling so I can advise accordingly. God bless.
    robert...one more thing i forgot...i hope that young man, anthony is doing o.k.
    he hasn't posted in a while.....sure hope he is sticking w/ the previous suggestions and support....he is so young!...i did send him a long post of my son's and my experience and hopefully some support, but one never knows....i'm saying a little prayer for him...
    peace, Lilly

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilly555 View Post
    hi melinda, robert and all....
    just checking in and feeling a bit sheepish having to admit these past few days i have been extremely emotional; more so than normal for even me...i hate it and have been crying way too easily about everything; i am trying to get ahold of my emotions and saw my therapist yesterday...she says this is all anxiety and that basically i have suppressed much of it for years by being on so much opiates, which simply mask anxiety....even tho' i know some of this is true and w/ my families history as well ( many members are on benzos for anxiety, tho' i never was)....
    i guess my question is, is this what everyone else goes thru' to some degree or another..i thought i read this here before...
    ...and will it get better?....or is this something that really has been dormant and even when/if i'm off the suboxone and stay clean off any opiates; am i always going to be feeling this intensity of emotions?..i know no one can tell me for sure, as everyone is so unique....I hate to sound like i'm complaining when i have so much to be grateful for, and i hope i don't sound too pathetic here...
    also, in the past few days i've had a few extreme triggers happen in my life; one in particular; i found out yesterday, that my company might close shop in a few months and i will be out of a job; just extra stress and it's making me more emotional....i hate crying uncontrollably and feel way too weak w/ this....any thoughts or experiences on this would really help me out.....
    also, trying the xanax here and there , but don't feel any major difference or improvement....
    any and all suggestions, support or feedback would be greatly appreciated...
    peace, Lilly
    Hi lilly
    I think we repress all of are emotions when were taking drugs...then when we stop we get slaped in the face with everything we been hiding from.
    So I think it's goood you can cry and get it all out...
    Oh man really that must feel good...
    You really are very lucky you have all the tools you need to get well...
    So just sit back and smile couse your going to make it...
    Talk to you soon, Melinda

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Lilly .... I agree with your therapist. We bury our feelings in drugs and when we get clean we have to learn how to deal with things all over again. NO you won't be crying about everything forever. lol At least you shouldn't be, but don't worry about it for now. It's completely normal when all these feelings start hitting you at once. Just take things one day at a time. Soon this will all be a memory, and it will be one that you can actually remember. And you won't want to repeat it so it helps us to stay clean, or at least that's the idea. Take care and God bless.
    robert...you actually made me laugh at the comment that;
    "at least i shouldn't be"....i.e. crying forever......i guess we all need a little humor during all of this.....
    also forgot, to mention all the other bad symptoms earlier reported are actually getting a little better, each day; is this a good sign that i'm on the right dose?...thought you should know this progress......also, the post i was referring to earlier to anthony, is on another thread; it's the one he started under the name batss, i believe....it's rather a long post, but it has a lot of my history which i hope will support or help him....if you run across it, it might give you more insight into my background as well; tho' no pressure at all....i know you are working w/ many other people, besides me!, but wanted to update you and thank you again.
    peace, Lilly

  14. #224
    Anonymous Guest

    Default opioids + bezo's = death

    sue,my name is rusty(rstuds) in small quanities you may be ok.i don't know why you're taking either one but read all the info you can on each drug. xanax even in small 2mg. dosage can be addictive in short order and it can take months to get off of it. if you are in a depressed mood taper yourself off it like 5mg. every two weeks. feel your body and listen to it. the #1 killer in florida last year was the combination of methadone and xanax. any opioid and xanax is very very dangerous. try to taper down on both drugs.try to break down the suboxone in to halfs wait awhile and see how you feel.you are not going to get a high from it anyway.try to take some vitamins and eat well and get healthy.pray for God to give you the strength to live a happy healthy life,rusty

  15. #225
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstuds1 View Post
    sue,my name is rusty(rstuds) in small quanities you may be ok.i don't know why you're taking either one but read all the info you can on each drug. xanax even in small 2mg. dosage can be addictive in short order and it can take months to get off of it. if you are in a depressed mood taper yourself off it like 5mg. every two weeks. feel your body and listen to it. the #1 killer in florida last year was the combination of methadone and xanax. any opioid and xanax is very very dangerous. try to taper down on both drugs.try to break down the suboxone in to halfs wait awhile and see how you feel.you are not going to get a high from it anyway.try to take some vitamins and eat well and get healthy.pray for God to give you the strength to live a happy healthy life,rusty


    Rusty .... just so you know Sue has not posted on this forum in almost five years. Doubt she will read this. I didn't know if you noticed the dates on her posts or not. The thread obviously still exists but with other people, she is long gone. God bless.

  16. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Sure I will be happy to continue to work with you. This is a ministry for me. I was shown mercy for my past life and was made a new creature through God's grace. I have to demonstrate the same mercy to others that I've been blessed with. I want to see you get totally clean and off the suboxone too.

    Most all of us have a difficult time going through a detox off drugs of any kind. Opiates make us feel like we are going to die, but we don't. And most all of us go off the handle a little at times with frustration and real physical pain from w/d. I had to be slapped around a little myself when I was getting clean as I refused to listen to anyone. And I do realize that you've followed instructions to the letter since we finally began working together. I won't question that at all. When I am a little harsh at times it truly is done with a good heart. I really am trying to help save people regardless of personal feelings be it their's or mine. It's that important that we succeed.

    I'm sure we could share stories of work behind walls of correctional facilities. It's an unusual experience the first time you share your personal story with a big room full of convicts. So many police, prison officials, parole/probation officers know my story that I don't even worry about what I say in prisons or jails anymore. I let anonymity go out the window years ago.

    Your body needs to get some rest now seeing how the last few days have been so draining. You sound better today and staying at 8mg per day for a week is an excellent plan. The worst of your actual opiate detox will be over after two weeks so with the days you have been on subs so far and add another week you will be ready then to begin a slow taper down. If you feel a panic attack coming on take as much as .5mg of xanax at once. Just don't use it unless it's really necessary. There can be a drug interaction between buprenorphine (the drug in suboxone) and the xanax causing respiratory depression. So just keep it to a minimum. Stay in touch, God bless.
    hi robert....don't know where all the time has gone since this post on the 7th...as today is the 23rd ..and maybe this is a good indication about where i've been and where i am going?.....anyway, i've been at the 4mg twice a day now for 17 days....in looking back at these posts, i realized you said i would be dropping to 6mg's after a week or so at the 8mgs....so i'm wondering what your thoughts are on my dose...w/ what you know of my symptoms and progress so far, is it time for me to start at the 6mg this week?....don't worry, i won't "Freak out" w/ this next drop...LOL at myself....and how is it spread out....4mg in a.m and 2mg p.m or split evenly at 3mg a.m. and 3mg p.m.?....
    also, can you explain to me roughly how long the actual opiate detox is....if i'm on day 24 w/ the sub, does that mean i'm pretty much now past the detox and if so, what does the remaining tapering period on the subutex really do for us?...is it primarily working on the cravings, or what, as i'm a bit confused what it really serves us for after it gets us past the w/d's and detox....does this make sense?....don't get me wrong, i am not at all ready to stop the subutex, especially psychologically....know i'm far from being able to lose this crutch right now....but i think it is working.....
    looking forward to hearing from you when you get a chance; i am on my work computer for the day....
    peace, lilly

  17. #227
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilly555 View Post
    hi robert....don't know where all the time has gone since this post on the 7th...as today is the 23rd ..and maybe this is a good indication about where i've been and where i am going?.....anyway, i've been at the 4mg twice a day now for 17 days....in looking back at these posts, i realized you said i would be dropping to 6mg's after a week or so at the 8mgs....so i'm wondering what your thoughts are on my dose...w/ what you know of my symptoms and progress so far, is it time for me to start at the 6mg this week?....don't worry, i won't "Freak out" w/ this next drop...LOL at myself....and how is it spread out....4mg in a.m and 2mg p.m or split evenly at 3mg a.m. and 3mg p.m.?....
    also, can you explain to me roughly how long the actual opiate detox is....if i'm on day 24 w/ the sub, does that mean i'm pretty much now past the detox and if so, what does the remaining tapering period on the subutex really do for us?...is it primarily working on the cravings, or what, as i'm a bit confused what it really serves us for after it gets us past the w/d's and detox....does this make sense?....don't get me wrong, i am not at all ready to stop the subutex, especially psychologically....know i'm far from being able to lose this crutch right now....but i think it is working.....
    looking forward to hearing from you when you get a chance; i am on my work computer for the day....
    peace, lilly



    Yes the time has flown by. And yes it's time to reduce your dose by 25% now down to 6mg. You can take it in two equal doses or if it's easier to do it 4mg and 2mg that is okay as well. When you reduce next time we can just take it off the 4mg dose. That will make this easier on you cutting up the pills.

    You are past the opiate detox now and the remaining time helps with your cravings. It also affords you time to get involved in some sort of a recovery program to help you maintain your clean time on a long term basis.

    I will contact you tomorrow evening per the email I received from you yesterday. After being out of state the last couple weeks I'm kind of buried in personal business for a couple days so my posts will be limited. But I will call you tomorrow. God bless.

  18. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_325 View Post
    Yes the time has flown by. And yes it's time to reduce your dose by 25% now down to 6mg. You can take it in two equal doses or if it's easier to do it 4mg and 2mg that is okay as well. When you reduce next time we can just take it off the 4mg dose. That will make this easier on you cutting up the pills.

    You are past the opiate detox now and the remaining time helps with your cravings. It also affords you time to get involved in some sort of a recovery program to help you maintain your clean time on a long term basis.

    I will contact you tomorrow evening per the email I received from you yesterday. After being out of state the last couple weeks I'm kind of buried in personal business for a couple days so my posts will be limited. But I will call you tomorrow. God bless.
    hi robert...thanx for getting back to me, i know you have a lot going on right now!!..so i really do appreciate it....i have taken 6 mg total today ( 4mg this morning and after i got your post, took only 2 mg for the p.m dose....so it is officially my first day at the 6 mg dose....WOW...never thought i'd even get to this point....and at day 24!!!...i sometimes can't believe it....anyway, will stay at the 6 mg's until i hear otherwise from you, but i'm guessing it's about a week, does that sound right or do you go by my progress w/ my posts, over the next few days?...either way, i'll keep you updated.....

    also, i just found out i have to go to an after hours event w/ my company tomorrow night, so you're off the hook having to call/help me tomorrow per my e-mail.....but i hope you know how much i value your willingness and generosity of even offering to advise me....and my sister has just offered me a small loan to get me thru' the next few months of job searching, so i feel a LITTLE less anxious on that one....and have started a strict budget today; actually called 4 different household expenses (like cable, phone,etc) and downgraded everything....it's a step and i have many more to take, but i'm willing to do anything and everything at this point....so just wanted to let you know....

    also, i have a question for you and anyone else out there.....what is your opinion on the whole "not dating or getting involved" w/ anyone while you're in recovery....many people have said it should be 6 months to a year.....as i've shared, i haven't been involved w/ anyone in over 7 years (!)....and am still not sure if i'm ready....but recently i've started to feel inclined to maybe just go out for dinner, some laughs and conversation...and that is a big step for me, as i just really haven't even had the want or desire too for so long.......so i could really use some input/thoughts/opinions on this, from anyone who's been thru' this....
    well, i can't say it enough, so i will keep saying it....thank you so much for all you have done for me.....it means more to me than you'll ever know....
    peace, lilly

  19. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazytimes View Post
    Good idea to get off the xanax and switch to clonipin. It's the subutex of xanax. It has the long half life so you don't have to worry about taking it but a couple times a day. Embarrassing when you are out and your eyes start to turn pink because you have not takin' your z on time. plus, you get rid of that high feeling that z gives you.

    For me, I took sub and z togther for 1 and 1/2 years and there was no problem. Every body is different, but my doc. certainly didn't have a heart attack about it. In fact, he scares me with mixing all these meds together for me to get off the subutex and z. I pray every night I will wake up.

    On a different note. I just got off the phone with this amino acid IV use 10 day program. $12,000. You have an IV in you for 10 hours a day just feeding your brain all that it lost in the year and then you feel great.

    Does anyone know about this, or have done this.

    They have one in Orange county, and Georgia and Miss.
    Thinking about doing it but hate to be gone from kids and hub for so long and then the cost of the program, is insanely expensive if it does not work.

    anyones thoughs.

    hate being on 7 days of withdrawl from a 1 and 1/12 of subutex. Of course my doc. told me it would be like having a mild flu for a week, and the pharmists said the same. I think that was for the people that use subs for a couple weeks.

    thanks for anyone's research, or....should I save the money and bear this 4 -6 month depresssion no energy, sweating, sickness out?

    Thanks
    Hello Cats, Robert and all....
    i know the above post is bit old, but i remember reading this post right when i first started on this site and it has been on my mind ever since.....
    basically my question is about the Xanax and if it actually does cause the eyes to be more red than normal????....i have been on Xanax .05 ( sometimes take a 1/2 pill in the day for anxiety and most nights at bedtime to sleep, i take a .05 mg)....
    I have noticed my eyes are much redder/bloodshot than normal and they are kind of itchy and have a slight burn feeling now and then....i use eye drops sometimes and they help, but it doesn't last that long and then my eyes get red again.....

    so my question is; is this due to the Xanax?...is this an actual side-effect of the Xanax; bloodshot eyes, like the original post referred too above...is this one of the side-effects reported in the research over the years.....just curious, so if anyone knows anything about this, i would really appreciate it....as i am thinking of switching to one of the longer-lasting benzos, at a very small dose, that robert has mentioned several times.....
    thanks in advance,
    peace, lilly

  20. #230
    fuzzman24 is offline Member
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    Default Suboxone and tranxene (clorazepate)

    I have been taking suboxone for almost a year now and it was a miracle drug for me. I was a 10 to 12 pill a day user of 10 mg perc or lortab whichever was easier to get. I also have bad anxiety and depression, I take 6 mg of suboxone a day and about 15 to 20 mg of tranxene a day. I know that tranxene is not as strong as xanax, valium or clonipin but I have had no problems at all taking the 2 together. I never go over the dose of either and I know everyone is different but I think as long as you know your body and do not take more than prescribed (I know funny coming from an opiate addict that tripled his prescription every day) then it shouldnt be a problem mixing benzo and sub.

    Not to say that it cant be dangerous I am sure that if you take too much of either drug it can certainly be fatal but if you are like me and need something for anxiety then just be careful and follow dr's orders and everything should be fine.

    Mark W

  21. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilly555 View Post
    Hello Cats, Robert and all....
    i know the above post is bit old, but i remember reading this post right when i first started on this site and it has been on my mind ever since.....
    basically my question is about the Xanax and if it actually does cause the eyes to be more red than normal????....i have been on Xanax .05 ( sometimes take a 1/2 pill in the day for anxiety and most nights at bedtime to sleep, i take a .05 mg)....
    I have noticed my eyes are much redder/bloodshot than normal and they are kind of itchy and have a slight burn feeling now and then....i use eye drops sometimes and they help, but it doesn't last that long and then my eyes get red again.....

    so my question is; is this due to the Xanax?...is this an actual side-effect of the Xanax; bloodshot eyes, like the original post referred too above...is this one of the side-effects reported in the research over the years.....just curious, so if anyone knows anything about this, i would really appreciate it....as i am thinking of switching to one of the longer-lasting benzos, at a very small dose, that robert has mentioned several times.....
    thanks in advance,
    peace, lilly
    hi cats meow.....or anyone....
    does anyone know the answer to this question about the boodshot eyes and Xanax?...or maybe is that a side effect of suboxone or subutex as well?
    peace, lilly

  22. #232
    Diggz24 is offline New Member
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    Default sub's and xan?

    im taking less then 2mg twice a day of sub and plan to do so four 4 days. Ive been addicted to oxys and percs for about 8 months and think its time to come clean. ive obtained everything illeagally and have not gone to a dr. becasue i wanted everything to be confidential. on this particular post theres been a great deal of good advice about mixing both subs and xanax. I was wonsering if someone thinks it's safe to mix .25-.5mg of xanax a day with 2-3mg of sub per day. ive heard its "bad" but since its such a low doseage of both i dont think it should be an issue. i tyically do this at least once every 2-3 months becasue ive relapesed so many times telling myself im goin to quit, but this time its real. i might save the xanax for the fourth and fifth day to get off the sub becasue, from experience its quite unpleasant. any advice?

  23. #233
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Default Diggz

    Quote Originally Posted by Diggz24 View Post
    im taking less then 2mg twice a day of sub and plan to do so four 4 days. Ive been addicted to oxys and percs for about 8 months and think its time to come clean. ive obtained everything illeagally and have not gone to a dr. becasue i wanted everything to be confidential. on this particular post theres been a great deal of good advice about mixing both subs and xanax. I was wonsering if someone thinks it's safe to mix .25-.5mg of xanax a day with 2-3mg of sub per day. ive heard its "bad" but since its such a low doseage of both i dont think it should be an issue. i tyically do this at least once every 2-3 months becasue ive relapesed so many times telling myself im goin to quit, but this time its real. i might save the xanax for the fourth and fifth day to get off the sub becasue, from experience its quite unpleasant. any advice?


    I normally don't advise anyone to take any benzos with subs as there is a real potential for adverse drug interactions here that could cause respiratory depression. I don't wish to be the person that made the suggestion to take a medication that did that to someone. I'm not saying it will kill anyone who does it, I'm just saying there is a real and valid potential for concern. You should be very cautious about doing this. It's more serious than most people think.

    It concerns me that you emphasize the difficulty of the w/d on the 4th and 5th day on suboxone. If you're taking the sub correctly you should be feeling pretty great with yourself by that time on suboxone. The induction should be over by then and you should be stabilized. Tell me more about this please, it just doesn't sound like you're doing things right if this is happening.

    I basically agree with you that you are only talking about a small dose of xanax here and that it most likely wouldn't hurt you if you actually did exactly as you said. If you want me to help walk you through a legitimate taper the rest of the distance getting clean let me know. God bless.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 03-14-2009 at 06:42 PM.

  24. #234
    Diggz24 is offline New Member
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    Default robert 325

    thank you for your advice, it certainly has helped me make some good decsions about the two drugs. Im actually feeling much better today i havent taken any sub in 24 hrs and im feeling 100% surprisingly. ( i thought i would need a few more days of sub) I went from taking 2mg at a time twice a day to taking 1mg in the morning once a day and since then im absolutely fine. that was yesterday morning, so i think i should be all set right? im just taking the rest of the xanex i have to take my mind of any possible withdrawal symptoms. i hope to feel drug free tomorrow morning.

    ive told my self i would quit so many times but now its real and if i dont quit now im fkd. Thanks for your help robert. good luck to anyone else struggling

  25. #235
    Robert_325 is offline Diamond Elite
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diggz24 View Post
    thank you for your advice, it certainly has helped me make some good decsions about the two drugs. Im actually feeling much better today i havent taken any sub in 24 hrs and im feeling 100% surprisingly. ( i thought i would need a few more days of sub) I went from taking 2mg at a time twice a day to taking 1mg in the morning once a day and since then im absolutely fine. that was yesterday morning, so i think i should be all set right? im just taking the rest of the xanex i have to take my mind of any possible withdrawal symptoms. i hope to feel drug free tomorrow morning.

    ive told my self i would quit so many times but now its real and if i dont quit now im fkd. Thanks for your help robert. good luck to anyone else struggling


    This is not at all what I suggested you do. My suggestion was to leave the xanax off not the subs. You've given it one day off the subs which have a half life of up to 70 hours. You're most likely going to get zapped with the w/d symptoms later today or tomorrow and you'll regret the decision you've made.

    You need to taper down properly off the subs and lay off the xanax. It's okay, you will soon see what I'm talking about. God bless.

  26. #236
    pa44onwelford is offline New Member
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    Default Adderall

    Can anyone tell me if Adderall sometimes make them tired felling, i have been taking for 12yrs. due to a major MVA leaving me with brain stem injury, chronic fatigue, and i have symptoms of ADHD. if anyone suffers from fatigue i would like to talk with you.
    Thanks

  27. #237
    astounding is offline New Member
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    Default I am an MD plz listen

    First of all, does anyone here not see the trend?

    Let me explain briefly, then I'll tell you all how to rid yourself of these problems.

    First of all, hydrocodone is one of the most attainable pain killers on the market today. It is also a gateway drug. Many do not realize this. Hydrocodone leads to sleeplessness and an inability to judge what is normal pain and what is not. In other words, after being on a hydrocodone/percocet for so long, you will experience normal every day pain and your brain will tell you to take a pill to rid you of this pain. Although this works, it is not healthy.

    The hydrocodone leads to an inablity to sleep as I said earlier. Hence doctors will prescribe sleep medications so a person may achieve a healthy nights sleep. And last but not least, when the pain meds and sleep meds are not working and a patient or doctor wishes to take a person away from these narcotics, suboxone is usually the most effective method.

    Also, meds such as xanax and valium should NOT be mixed with the suboxone, as this can lead to a complete shut down of respiratory function in high enough doses, often times in small doses. If you need sleep help, read below, but do NOT mix the two medications. Your doctor should not prescribe these two meds to you while taking the other.

    As for the sleeplessness. And urination problems

    I will tell you all having this to go purchase some chamomille tea, get some...not alot necessarily...but some....excercise, and drink alot of water. Your body is suppose to have 64 oz. of water a day minimum to funtion properly, and this has many benefits besides the ability to sleep better.

    This is also for the people having trouble urinating with the suboxone. Drink at least 64 oz. of water a day, and do not try to force yourself to urinate. When your body is ready, it will let you know. Often times people will feel an urge to go when on suboxone and not really need to. Walk around a little bit, around the block perhaps, and drink that water. This will eliminate the urinating problem.

    The constipation.

    There is a simple way to have a bowel movement that I recommend that is safe. It is called a suppository. Dulcolax makes one that works in 15 minutes to an hour. Although this sound disgusting to some people, the suppository is perhaps an inch long and maybe an 1/8th of an inch in width so it is not as bad as it seems. It may take longer than hour to work...but it does. They are over the counter, and can be purchased at most if not all pharmacies. Also realize that suboxone is not meant to be cold turkeyed. You need to ween yourself off of them. If your doctor is giving you more than you think you need, split the pill in half, and work your way down in mg dosage approximatley every 2 weeks.

  28. #238
    bigrzlife is offline New Member
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    Thumbs up Suboxone/Herione/Treatment/Tweaked

    I was been clean from iv >>>>>>e usage since Feb 20 2009. Suboxone was a miracle for me but others coming off the methadone treatment program almost always fail. M >>>>>>e use got pretty bad. I strongly recommend you DO NOT go the methadone route (bad - if want more info replay back). I spent $600-$700 a month for two years on H. I screwed up not too bad (almost didnt graduate from college but did).

    Drug History:
    Started on ir percs 20mgs (street) went to 80 and 160 (when they used to have the 160's) oxies (street) for a while and then found my pitfall. >>>>>>E (don't shoot / only ********ing snort it but anyways don't do it at all. I am currently taking 2 8/2mg suboxone a day.

    I was just kicked out of the suboxone program since 02/20/2009 FEB (dont goto to aurora physiachritic facilites). I found another doctor to gimme xannies and subs with out all the group/class bull********. I love popping 2 suboxones 8/2mg and anywhere from 1-8 or 9 2mg yellow bars (xanax). I get nice and ********ed up and but always lose/forget something and lose track of time the next day. Does this happen to anyone have similiar or different results. I also take 2mg of klonopin a day. This is a really ********ing long letter cause currently im tweak on 90mgs of aderall and just snorted 2 two mg xanies maybe thatll slow me down. You can shoot >>>>>>e on suboxone but you wont get high. Also, never ever shoot up avinzas (morphine) 30mg - 90 mg doese if your on suboxone. You will throw up and go through instant withdraws for 15-20mins (sweats, shaking, bad feeelings). Trust me I did it twice (what a dumbass). Well hopefully the 90mg aderall wears off and my 4mg of xanny kick in.


    Write Back,

    BiGr - Milwaukee

  29. #239
    bigrzlife is offline New Member
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    same story as mine

  30. #240
    rob_bladen is offline New Member
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    Lightbulb Suboxone and Xanax/benzodiazepines in general

    Sue,

    First a little qualifying data. I was married to a physician for years. Further, for most of that time I was on 300mg. methadone a day. Thought I'd never get off it. I feel there are pros and cons to methadone therapy. That was certainly the case in my life. I finally made the transition to suboxone, and lead a much better, productive life. Personally, I feel agonist therapy of any kind, especially for people of a certain age, (like me 46) is a good thing. If it keeps a person from scamming doctors and ER's, writing bad checks to buy medication, stealing medication from other peoples' medicine chests, then that's certainly an improvement on quality of life, right? I suspect I'll be on some sort of agonist therapy the rest of my life. My spouse the doctor used to compare my disease with diabetes: diabetics take their insulin, I take my suboxone or methadone.

    As to the combination of xanax or other benzodiazepines, (valium, klonopin, serax, versed,dalmane, halcion,librium... the list goes on, never mind generic names) my understanding is that the concern here is oversedation. I have been on benzodiazepines on and off since I was in college for a panic disorder, and I'm a generally very sensitive, highly-strung person. Yes, I've tried holistic approaches to this problem, but the bottom line is nothing helps like the benzodiazepines. I currently take 2 mg. Klonopin, (clonazepam) a day, and 24 mg. of Suboxone. I am not in the least sedated throughout the day.

    Everyone is different. The general rule of thumb is that if one is addicted to one substance then that one will likely be addicted to all substances. But there are exceptions: I am one, and over the years have met countless others. Several people in my buprenorphine (suboxone) support group are on benzos too. Seems to go with the territory, to be highly anxious if you're an addictive person. I have never, ever abused my benzos; in fact, being addicted to alcohol too, I KNOW that the clonazepam helps control my craving for alcohol. While both chemicals act on the same part of the brain, it is still not the same thing. I can enter a social situation, (always an agorophobic situation for me) on benzos, and no one knows it, I feel less anxious, and don't need to grab a drink to to avoid a panic attack. If I get stopped on the road for speeding after drinking, I'll probably wind-up with a DUI. Not so with clonazepam, (unless, of course, one is abusing his/her benzos and is inebriated from them and that can happen if one takes more than is prescribed or than one can safely tolerate.)

    My point is this: Whoever, (I assume your physician) told you the combination was dangerous was quoting the current physician's attitude toward the combination, that it is contraindicated because oversedation is feared. If the combination is oversedating for you, then your physician has a point. IF not, then advocate for yourself. Our doctors are human, after all, they do not know everything, and every addict is different. If the Xanax is useful to you for whatever reasons and you wish to remain on it, then stay on it.

    If you decide to stop Xanax, remember, benzodiazepine, esp. xanax for some unknown reason, is a very difficult withdrawal, if you are not tapered slowly. Make sure you insist that your doctor, tapers you down, ever so very, very slowly, over months, depending upon how long you've taken it, and how much. Benzo withdrawal, done too quickly or cold-turkey, can cause seizures, hallucinations, and death.

    I once, during a move from one state to another, found myself without my benzo, and did not yet have a new prescribing physician. After a few days I couldn't think straight, suffered rebound anxiety so severly I couldn't even get in the car, (and I CERTAINLY couldn't drive!) with someone; just seeing people in other cars made me twitch and my heart to pound. I had ungodly auditory hallucinations, vivid nightmares if I was lucky enough to sleep, and several seizures. This lasted two weeks, before it gradually, over a day's time, disappeared. But more subtle side-effects may persist for months, even years.

    So, to summarize:

    Every addict is different. Some of us abuse one or some classes of drugs, not others. Opiates and alcohol are strictly all I am addicted to. I am on amphetamines, and have been since college for ADD. They have never made me high. I tried cocaine twice, and in large quantities. Because it too is a stimulant like the amphetamines, it merely made me calm, more focused like my ADD meds do. It just doesn't work for people who truly suffer ADD.

    Hope I've been some help. Feel free to write me at rob_bladen@yahoo.com

    Yours,
    Rob

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