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Forceout needs community to get through
  1. #1
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Default Forceout needs community to get through

    Here you go Forceout. Give us some history right here. Try to keep your updates and questions here so that it'll be easy for us to find you and for you to find any replies left for you. Of course, post on as many other threads as you want to if you want to ask a specific member a question or want to offer your support or advice to someone else. Best, though to keep your updates right here so they're all in the same place.

    Welcome! I'm looking forward to getting to know you.

    Peace,

    Cat

  2. #2
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey forceout. Just wanted to add to the welcoming party. This place has saved me. Post as often as you like. You'll find its really therapeutic just getting it all out. And you've found a great bunch of people who want nothing more than to motivate and support you. Tell us your story. You'll get some great advice I can promise you that!!

    Stay strong
    Beef

  3. #3
    Forceout is offline Member
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    Happier to be here than I can say. A first of sorts for me. It's difficult to say how this all started but 20 years ago I beat "up" drugs and was clean of them for, well until now. Meth nearly killed me twice. Very, very close. But 5 yrs ago I had some bad luck and a terrible leg injury that started a series of 4 or five surgeries. You all know what happened then. My old behavior kicked in and I have been taking hydrocodone since.
    I found this place and read for a couple months. Somewhere along the way, (tears now), I began loosely reducing. 10/325's. 1 10mg taken 4 times a day like clockwork for over 5 yrs. never escalated. I got more serious about a month ago after reading Robert, Ricky, Cat, and some other's advice. Started keeping a log and going down by 5 mg a day every weekend so that the first 2 days of each drop coincided with Sat/Sun. Those days the hardest to me.
    I never thought I would be in this position again the rest of my life but here I am. I'm mad but it is what it is. I'm an engineer and past junkie. I should have seen it coming but I really didn't. I had no idea what a problem stopping hydrostatic would be. Never in my wildest dreams would I have believed it could be this difficult. I thought I would just toss them and to on. Not a chance. Even my smaller dose for so long is one tough thing to get rid of.
    Rambling terribly, sorry.

    What is happening now.......
    Yesterday was about 12 mg taken in two separate pills one in am before getting out of bed at 5:30 for work. I took the other about 5 pm. Today laying around and took the first 5 mg about 9 am when I woke up.

    It has been a very long month. I am shaking and anxious and having out of body type feelings off and on all day. Tears come and go for now apparent reason but they are of emotional origins not w/d tearing. I have been doing the things with fluids and I have been to my dr and I have clanazepam which I have been taking at bedtime only for 10 plus years. 1/2 of a 1mg pill when my feet come off the floor. It helps immensely.

    Thanks for listening and thank you God for this place.

    Hurting all over from injuries and mentally from getting in this situation. No real stomach probs so far. Anxiety and fear of not making it the long haul my biggest monsters. And the are big and mean and always there every minute of every day. Still working. Sucks but no choice. Reason for taper. Would rather get sick and be done. I am 50 ish and in real good physical condition.

    Feel stupid such long post. Very lonely even though only a few feet from people.

  4. #4
    Leah987 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hi, Forceout, welcome to the forum! I was in an accident, and have had really bad neck pain and headaches ever since. That was somewhere around 25 or 30 years ago. I, too, was on hydrocodone. I found this forum, and to make a long story short, my forum friends helped me get off the evil little suckers. I have been off hydros over 6 months now, and tramadol about 9 months. I'm pain pill free! I still have to take pills for other ailments I have, but no more opiates or pain pills of any kind. If I can do this, you can do this! Get on here and whine and complain any time you need to, that is why we're here!
    Last edited by Anonymous; 11-04-2017 at 12:48 PM.
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  5. #5
    Forceout is offline Member
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    Thank you, Leah. I have to go to my sister's house with my dad right now to do some work. Remember, he's 75 plus. Man, it's hard to find the get up and go for the tiniest of tasks. Family has always relied on me for fixes of the construction type. Lol. But can't play sick. Might need that one when it's worse. For some reason that I don't understand completely, the small drops in dose are very noticeable. I can't imagine getting up and going without even the meager amount I take now and then it seeps away and I'm miserable and can only stare much of the time. So frustrating. I have a relationship problem to boot and know all about that pitfall from meetings galore 20 years ago....I enjoyed a senior clean member status at a big group for yrs. now I'm back here sucking it up. Thanks again. I may whine a lot lol.
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  6. #6
    TheCib is offline Member
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    Hey Forceout,

    Am glad that you have arrived. My story is similar to yours.For me it is severe back pain. Started taking oxy 30 mg orally then switched to snorting them for quicker results. Little did I know that is also how i doubled my intake. At peak was snorting 320 to 380 mg a day.

    On my second go around from this addiction. Have gone "cold turkey" twice now. Enough of me.

    I also found this site accidentally. Posted a few things then started to hear from people I did not know. Yes, I hung on every word they put down. I am 57 and how in the hell did I end up with an addiction !

    Stay strong with your plan what ever it may be. You must remember what is at the end of the tunnel. Your freedom and health. Yes, it can get dark but your spirit to survive will take over. Keep posting. If you have a chance go to an NA meeting just to listen. They are the only people who will not judge you.

    Hope your journey frees you from this lie.

    Just for today !
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  7. #7
    Forceout is offline Member
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    Thank you more than you know. These will be my only meetings. Big reason why as I know the incredible benifit.

  8. #8
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Sounds like you're already on your way and you're doing something that a lot of people can't do and that is taper. I know when I was on oxy's whatever I had would be consumed asap. No if's and's or but's about it. You sound like youve got just the right mindset to get this done. Definately save that flu excuse for a rainy day lol. Keep posting here everyone is amazing and all have great suggestions, and will push you to make you better. If I hadn't stumbled on this site and found a few random threads who knows where I'd be. This is way better. Go ahead and whine away we all would love to hear it. Just keep doing the next right thing!!

    Stay strong
    Beef
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  9. #9
    Forceout is offline Member
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    Thanks beef. Everything helps right now
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  10. #10
    Forceout is offline Member
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    I don't think I thanked you for helping me get a thread started, Cat. So thanks!
    Funny......an engineer can't navigate a simple forum environment. But I guess I'm not at peak performance level right now. Another problem with the hydro's. Makes the work I do difficult. It happened slowly and I would not admit that I was performing so poorly on the job. I lost a lot in that area over time including promotions and the like. Self confidence is in the gutter with my excitement about life in general.

    One positive thing happened this last week though, I had a strange moment of clarity that lasted maybe 20 minutes. (This was the third day of my 15 mg per day week. I keep a log as I've said.) A view of a more high functioning me. I read somewhere on here about that. It was short lived but I have not felt that "sharp" in years. Just the thought of being in that state of mind again all the time is a seemingly impossible dream. But I now think it is possible. That little thing is all that is keeping me going right this minute ......today. And having this place to write my thoughts. I have been very isolated with this monster. So freaking horrible. To be this alone for endless minutes added up to be hours and then finally another day.
    I feel better than I did this morning. Not as emotional. It's been like that all along though. Up and down.
    Thanks for listening. I took only exactly 10 mg hydro today and that's a miracle to me. Y'all helped. Having started blabbering is helping me. Should have done it a month ago.
    Anybody reading this that is thinking about signing in, starting a thread ......... do it right now. What do you have to lose??

    Grateful today if nothing else.

  11. #11
    froggy_069 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forceout View Post
    I don't think I thanked you for helping me get a thread started, Cat. So thanks!
    Funny......an engineer can't navigate a simple forum environment. But I guess I'm not at peak performance level right now. Another problem with the hydro's. Makes the work I do difficult. It happened slowly and I would not admit that I was performing so poorly on the job. I lost a lot in that area over time including promotions and the like. Self confidence is in the gutter with my excitement about life in general.

    One positive thing happened this last week though, I had a strange moment of clarity that lasted maybe 20 minutes. (This was the third day of my 15 mg per day week. I keep a log as I've said.) A view of a more high functioning me. I read somewhere on here about that. It was short lived but I have not felt that "sharp" in years. Just the thought of being in that state of mind again all the time is a seemingly impossible dream. But I now think it is possible. That little thing is all that is keeping me going right this minute ......today. And having this place to write my thoughts. I have been very isolated with this monster. So freaking horrible. To be this alone for endless minutes added up to be hours and then finally another day.
    I feel better than I did this morning. Not as emotional. It's been like that all along though. Up and down.
    Thanks for listening. I took only exactly 10 mg hydro today and that's a miracle to me. Y'all helped. Having started blabbering is helping me. Should have done it a month ago.
    Anybody reading this that is thinking about signing in, starting a thread ......... do it right now. What do you have to lose??

    Grateful today if nothing else.
    Forceout Congrats, man! 1 10mg hydro is awesome ... you are on the road to wellness by the looks of it, just stick with it man! How are you feeling otherwise?

  12. #12
    Forceout is offline Member
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    Hey Frog,

    How do I feel? Hmmmm.....

    Not terrible I must admit. Lol. But that is this moment. Large muscles ache. Headache for days now but mild. Foggy dazed existence. A time of anxiety.

    But keep in mind that I was a tweeker for 10 years early in life ending 4/98 and I'm used to extreme altered states. My state of mind this last month would probably have sent a few to the nearest psych ward......?? I know what is happening to me so I don't freak as easy. My use of opiates has been a mild max dose compared to some but for a long long time same every day never missing ever. So now it's weird as a dream so to speak. Some light probs with bathroom stuff but nothing Imodium won't handle. Also got the "don't wanna do's" real bad. Almost "can't do's" but am digging real real deep to do what is necessary not much more. And I'm shaking sometimes with and without chills. Nose runs and w/d eye watering.

    That's how I feel right now.

    This morning, embarrassed a little even on here, but being honest, I cried a whole bunch. Felt lonely and scared. A song on the radio, Wish You Were Here by Pink Floyd" put me in shaking, spitting, shambles. "I traded a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage" etc. that's what I did and used up years of my life in here/there. What a waste. Pretty tough just waiting around kinda sick and in this middle ground waiting for time to pass. Real tough facing 6 days of crumbs before jumping. It's a mental rage, a mental cataclysmic battle, soul crushing. A time of rehashing and beginning to see all of it for what it has been and pissed off at the losses and wastes. Shallow goals and misplaced priorities wondering how a person like me has done so little with so much. Self loathing doesn't even begin to describe how I feel much of the time.

    But I'm the end, I can always find things to be grateful for. It's hard but possible. Love this safe place to ramble. From my heart thank you all. Godspeed.

  13. #13
    Forceout is offline Member
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    Oh yeah, Frog......

    I forgot to say that my injuries which are many and extensive, are coming to the surface and yelling and screaming. The drug was doing a good job, better than I knew, really.......of knocking the edge off. But I am waiting on pins and needles for my body to start helping with that and see for the first time what the real pain levels are. I will exerercise and practice yoga when I get to the right place to help with these things. I have been lazy. I know it helps for sure so it is up to me to work constantly to fight the pain w/o drugs. I pray for strength to follow through as that is a grind also. The battle never really ends.

    Grateful still.

  14. #14
    froggy_069 is offline Member
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    Force So I take it you are going c/t from the opiates? Good for you man if you have the mental fortitude to push through that! I have tried several times, mostly out of necessity, and always found c/t an arduous road to say the least! Hopefully your w/d at this moment is tolerable, I know how it goes, and there is definitely a light at the end of this tunnel so keep hanging in there and pushing through! By this time tomorrow I will be experiencing all the same w/d symptoms, even now I feel the slight onset of symptoms that will surely be x10 before the morning is here but I'll be making a short jump to subs for a few days so that should help. It's the first 25-30 hrs that are the worst until I can make the switch to subs - It's only been 8, lol!

    I know what you mean with the music, I've been to the same point in the past. Usually at a low point where I'm reflecting on pretty much the same as you - losses, wastes, and a boatload of misplaced priorities. I'm not far from that point now and I'm a music junkie so it's probably unavoidable! Time was always my biggest regret as it is the one thing that can never be replaced, everything else is material. Once you get past this though, you'll realize that those losses and wastes are not as significant as they seem right now compared to the wonderful drug free opportunities that lie before you! It's a whole new life man and you can do it! It may seem like the battle never really ends but it does change ... you'll never truly be without battles in life and some are definitely easier than others.

    Are you taking time off work to do this? That has always been a tough one for me as well, so much wasted time but when you really need it to waste, you never seem to have it! It's back to work on Monday so it should be an interesting couple days to say the least! I should've started this last week but the addict in me kept fighting for one more day and alas, one more excuse! Now I find myself in less than ideal circumstances and without the time that was previously available to me but i wasted. I've committed myself though so I'm all in at this point!

    I hope your symptoms start to even out a bit and you can find some comfort. How are you sleeping? Getting enough or hardly any? It's a heaven-sent to get at least a little sleep and some reprieve from the w/d's. I'm rootin' for ya' man, I know you can do this!

  15. #15
    Forceout is offline Member
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    Thank you so much I'm rooting for you too. Also I have been tapering for a month. Physical symptoms minor comparatively but slow death so to speak. Wearing me down and emotions etc make me tired/exhausted. Sleep more or less ok about 6 hrs a night with toss and turn and wild dreams. Might say weird sleep? Can't overstate the strange overall fuzzy feeling during wake hours. Bizzare. Something like mild mild trip or similar. Never been exactly here before. I'm in a good place like a good house and comfy. Can't imagine not having that. Feel for others in worse places doing this.

    Grateful.
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  16. #16
    Forceout is offline Member
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    Oh yeah Frog,

    Get it on dude and bare down. Don't forget the liquids and vitamins and all that stuff that we all know helps. Do it. Just get it done. Sounds like you know it sucks and are ready. Grrrrrr!!!!

  17. #17
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forceout View Post
    Thank you so much I'm rooting for you too. Also I have been tapering for a month. Physical symptoms minor comparatively but slow death so to speak. Wearing me down and emotions etc make me tired/exhausted. Sleep more or less ok about 6 hrs a night with toss and turn and wild dreams. Might say weird sleep? Can't overstate the strange overall fuzzy feeling during wake hours. Bizzare. Something like mild mild trip or similar. Never been exactly here before. I'm in a good place like a good house and comfy. Can't imagine not having that. Feel for others in worse places doing this.

    Grateful.
    Good Morning Forceout,

    I have finally made my way back to your thread and just caught up. This is my safe place too and I know that I would not have made it out had I not stumbled here accidentally looking for the magic that would get me through a detox without having to pay the price. Needless to say, I didn't find that. I know that feeling of being surrounded by people but being soooo alone. Being in active addiction is without question a very lonely place. It's horrible! Just like the rest of us, I couldn't (and still can't) believe that I allowed myself to get so bad but I did and there's no tool to get that undone.

    There's lots of good news though about having had this experience. (Making lemonade.) I decided fairly early on in my recovery that I am the outcome of every experience I have had and every person I have met. I have much to be ashamed of but I now also have much to be proud of. I am a better me now. Nearly eight years ago on my last Day 1 (and prior) It surely didn't feel like I'd be able to forgive myself and it terrified me. I knew that if I couldn't, it would be my undoing. I had already figured out that I had come to a place that I was telling myself that there really was no sense in going through the motions of detox and recovery because the damage was already done. I was garbage and I'd always be garbage. To that I say, rubbish! We become masters of justification. I did forgive myself. It wasn't without a lot of inner reflection and many days of touch and go but after some time, I began to notice that there were good parts of me and it became my building blocks to grow my self esteem. It takes action and not just thoughts. I'm a strong advocate of random acts of kindness. It's a perfect way to get that moment of instant gratification. Enough about me for now.

    So, you're at 10mg a day of hydro from what I read. Major kudos for being able to taper. I find that in itself astonishing because it's something I just could not do. I'm a gobbler. Having been down this road for nearly twenty years with countless cold turkey detoxes under my belt, I honestly would encourage you to just jump now. The end of tapers are brutal...not to say that it's not brutal the entire time, but that last little bit is so hard to give up. It's not only the physical aspect but it's largely mental. The last piece of our crutch that we are dropping to walk on our own. Scary chit. I honestly don't think that you'll feel much different if you were to stop now. It sounds like the symptoms you are already experiencing are the same that you will experience if you did decide to stop. This, of course is your decision and I'm just sharing a piece of my vast experience with this. Instead of looking at another few weeks of feeling less than stellar, you'll have around five days, and maybe even less than that because your dose is now so low. Then you'll be done and can get through the following few weeks of early recovery. Physically you'll be lethargic and the bathroom issues might still have you running (excuse the pun), and there is always the emotional stuff hiding around the corner to attack you without notice. However, after just a few long days, you'll truly begin your recovery. Just my thoughts and if you want to keep plugging away with your taper, then that's your decision. It's not important how you get to the other side, so long as you get there.

    I'm so glad that you found this Forum. Post, post, post! You've already got some people on board to help and there will be more. I should warn you too that the Forum is most often very slow over the weekends but picks back up on Sunday night and Monday. I don't know why, but for as long as I've been here it has always been so. Maybe it's just that many of us consider this our safe place and we post about things that we would never say aloud to our families so it's difficult to find a private time to log on and read and post. I know that even now, I don't read and post if there's anyone around that may be looking over my shoulder. Just thought I'd mention that so you won't get discouraged if there's little activity here today.

    I'm looking forward to getting to know you so keep posting.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  18. #18
    somo is offline Advanced Member
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    The weekend crew is the best tho! Or at least I am the best!

    I agree wholeheartedly with Cat. As low as your dose is now, the psychological and physical benefits of jumping now far outweigh any more tapering. Less overall physical and mental stress overall. A few days once is better than a few days numerous times IMO. Best wishes, and don't dread. Try to make the best of the situation you are in... (Cat's lemonade reference), and occupy the toughest times by helping others. I'm repeating, but it honestly works!

  19. #19
    Forceout is offline Member
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    You guys are so smart!! Almost like you know me! I guess you do in many ways. Cat and Somo, Thank you. Both. It takes so much time to do what you are doing but I for one kinda know about what you are up to. Recovering others it recovering yourself. I was so far into recovery from meth after 10 years that I was operating meetings in a major US county jail. Dozens of inmates. So, I too believe in service. Unfortunately for me so to speak, that was a decade ago plus and here I am on the receiving end again. I am doing little things all along, though.

    Thank you Cat. For the identify with my emotional problems. They are many and you are spot on dead center. Amazing. Still amazed after a life of experience how it takes one to truly know one. Freaking totally bizarre. We need some truly brilliant Doctor addicts out there.....lol. Why not? I'm an engineer addict .....it happens .....smile. Wow! That's rare lately...smile again. That felt good. You are a blessing Cat!! Thank you.

    As for the taper from here on out ........hhmmmmm.........
    Honesty rules, right?? An experienced addict here!!!!

    1). Scared to freakin death is the bottom line. Also addicted to misery is in there somewhere. Somehow, some weird way, I think I deserve this chitty downward pain. It must go on for me to remember the reason not to play around with it again. That is the way I see it when looking from the outside in, objectively, knowing that person, me, like I do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    2). Getting out of bed was hard for me w//o anything ....before all this including before injuries which have been added to the mix since getting up with neither drugs or the injuries; follow me? Generally a bed monkey...smile again. Love sleep. Runs in my family even. Long line of sleep lovers.....wrote the book on napping etc. joked about all the time by all that know us....funny stuff except for me now.......sux.
    Soooo. Those tiny crumbs still kick me out of this comfy bed. Big dang deal. Got to beat it somehow pure down deep dig dig dig will power. And I will. I have to. A real problem that may be somewhat unique to me. ( I will add here that I have had surgery close to dozen times. Both wrists, 2 knee, chest//ribs, thoracic twice, and others. Knee was bent 90 degrees backwards.....I was down seven months from that)

    Now, the other "reasons", official ones.

    3). I have had major open heart surgery. A few yrs ago but since the hydros started the knee was first. Great shape now (a poster child my cardio guy calls me). but those meds continue as well as constant awareness of other physical "stuff" let's just call it. All told and there is volumes out there, tapering the only real option for sure safe way to go. II DONT AGREE! especially at my dose. But hey, engineer >> Doctor. I wouldn't want to use a high rise building he designed!!!! Or automobile or plane....see???
    Extenuating circumstances here and must be at least considered.

    Summary

    I'm pretty tough. Most would agree if knew me and the life I've led away from the monster of dope. I could drop it now and probably just be pissed off for a while along with some major emotional battles but they are present in spades already.. don't think it would be much worse.

    Considering jump advise seriously. ProPilot thread from way back comes to mind as well as many others. Psychological battle deluxe!!!!!!!!

    In a way, it's hard to leave that ole buddy in my pocket (pill bottle) at home! Weird to the max. Never seen or experienced many things similar. That monster seems like an old friend sometimes. A powerful adversary and a feather in the hat to all that have won the fight.

    Grateful beyond measure to be here. For today.

    PS - the thought comes to mind that Robert is still bringing people in to the light with the legacy of threads still here in his absence. Thanks to him I reach out and Cat grabbed my hand, pulled me up.
    I will never forget that as long as I live.
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  20. #20
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forceout View Post
    You guys are so smart!! Almost like you know me! I guess you do in many ways. Cat and Somo, Thank you. Both. It takes so much time to do what you are doing but I for one kinda know about what you are up to. Recovering others it recovering yourself. I was so far into recovery from meth after 10 years that I was operating meetings in a major US county jail. Dozens of inmates. So, I too believe in service. Unfortunately for me so to speak, that was a decade ago plus and here I am on the receiving end again. I am doing little things all along, though.

    Thank you Cat. For the identify with my emotional problems. They are many and you are spot on dead center. Amazing. Still amazed after a life of experience how it takes one to truly know one. Freaking totally bizarre. We need some truly brilliant Doctor addicts out there.....lol. Why not? I'm an engineer addict .....it happens .....smile. Wow! That's rare lately...smile again. That felt good. You are a blessing Cat!! Thank you.

    As for the taper from here on out ........hhmmmmm.........
    Honesty rules, right?? An experienced addict here!!!!

    1). Scared to freakin death is the bottom line. Also addicted to misery is in there somewhere. Somehow, some weird way, I think I deserve this chitty downward pain. It must go on for me to remember the reason not to play around with it again. That is the way I see it when looking from the outside in, objectively, knowing that person, me, like I do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    2). Getting out of bed was hard for me w//o anything ....before all this including before injuries which have been added to the mix since getting up with neither drugs or the injuries; follow me? Generally a bed monkey...smile again. Love sleep. Runs in my family even. Long line of sleep lovers.....wrote the book on napping etc. joked about all the time by all that know us....funny stuff except for me now.......sux.
    Soooo. Those tiny crumbs still kick me out of this comfy bed. Big dang deal. Got to beat it somehow pure down deep dig dig dig will power. And I will. I have to. A real problem that may be somewhat unique to me. ( I will add here that I have had surgery close to dozen times. Both wrists, 2 knee, chest//ribs, thoracic twice, and others. Knee was bent 90 degrees backwards.....I was down seven months from that)

    Now, the other "reasons", official ones.

    3). I have had major open heart surgery. A few yrs ago but since the hydros started the knee was first. Great shape now (a poster child my cardio guy calls me). but those meds continue as well as constant awareness of other physical "stuff" let's just call it. All told and there is volumes out there, tapering the only real option for sure safe way to go. II DONT AGREE! especially at my dose. But hey, engineer >> Doctor. I wouldn't want to use a high rise building he designed!!!! Or automobile or plane....see???
    Extenuating circumstances here and must be at least considered.

    Summary

    I'm pretty tough. Most would agree if knew me and the life I've led away from the monster of dope. I could drop it now and probably just be pissed off for a while along with some major emotional battles but they are present in spades already.. don't think it would be much worse.

    Considering jump advise seriously. ProPilot thread from way back comes to mind as well as many others. Psychological battle deluxe!!!!!!!!

    In a way, it's hard to leave that ole buddy in my pocket (pill bottle) at home! Weird to the max. Never seen or experienced many things similar. That monster seems like an old friend sometimes. A powerful adversary and a feather in the hat to all that have won the fight.

    Grateful beyond measure to be here. For today.

    PS - the thought comes to mind that Robert is still bringing people in to the light with the legacy of threads still here in his absence. Thanks to him I reach out and Cat grabbed my hand, pulled me up.
    I will never forget that as long as I live.
    Leave it to an engineer to create such an organized post. Looks like a well thought out proposal. For sure. It takes one to know one. We've all been there so we know the manipulation, justification, and the rest of the mess. None of us have escaped that part.

    Funny you mention that your bottle feels like an old friend. I can remember posting that I didn't know how to live "without a little help from my friends". This is absolutely like breaking up from a bad relationship. After a time, they become as ordinary as breathing. I mean, really. Aside from the mental aspect, those 10mg/day can't be doing much for you anymore but the lure is there and it's real. Opiates are a cruel mistress.

    I guess I had temporarily forgotten that I read that you had a boatload of recovery behind you from a prior life and that you were active in meetings, etc. Sorry about that because I can only imagine that much of what I had to say is no news and didn't really help much except to know that there's someone out in cyberspace willing and wanting to listen.

    Your statement about your doctor advising you to continue to taper: Certainly I'm not a doctor and I am not one of those jaded people who blame my addiction on doctors or Big Pharma. Oh no. That was all me. I understand now, though that because of your heart your doctor has to be very conservative at not putting undue stress on your body. On the other hand (I have to say it) you are already experiencing symptoms and know this drug well enough to know that if you were to quit at 10mg/day you're not going to physically feel that much worse than you already do. Now the sleep thing. Yep. That is a killer even for those of us who have never needed much sleep. Yikes for you. But again, you're down low enough that I'd be surprised if your sleep changes much and even if it does, it shouldn't last that long. I have to admit though, aside from the RLS, knowing that there would be no sleep for me in the foreseeable future was formidable.

    What have I said? Not much. Just know that this is your journey. I'll just be here listening when you need someone to listen and to give you a little cheer as needed.

    Peace,

    Cat

  21. #21
    Forceout is offline Member
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    I agree with everything and is sinking in today that I need to say good bye to it sooner not later. My other self is a beast but I know him well. I am not a know it all or really anything about this particular (opiates) monster. Recovery before was all or none always(meth). No tapering for me there. Lol. Drug life and the recovery from same is the same however. Today is all that really matters. Tomorrow???? Well I'll deal with it when it comes. I got this for today it seems right this second. You said a lot and I read every dang word!! The endgame of this taper is brutal let me tell you. The litttle drops are h e l l at first.....less so after 2 days or so and then again and again. Probably jump at ten here in a day or so when I level out a bit. Sounds procrastinating even to me.......oh well. I am who I am.

    One thing I learned in long term meeting attendance a lifetime ago........everybody's monsters are freakin huge to them. It doesn't matter if they are main lining the hard stuff or taking mother's little helpers. It's the bigggest thing in the world to the person dealing with stopping the behavior.

    Grateful today for a lot of things.
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  22. #22
    Forceout is offline Member
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    This place and the people here and getting my thoughts and whining and stuff is helping me like nothing else I've done........bar none.

    So if you, yes you......are reading this and might even think a tiny bit about posting. Get that done right now. Easiest thing of all and helped me at a critical time only Yesrerday or day before. Sharing is a big deal in getting moving when you are alone and stuck in this living nightmare.

  23. #23
    Anonymous Guest

    Default Forceout

    Even though you won't find my thread very long, I have had several since joining a few years ago. I completely understand the fear of the emotional aspect of the impending cut-off of everything. In fact, I had a good cry in the shower this morning. It was totally neurotic, to say the least. I imagined my husband, who was going to pick his brother up from the airport in Detroit getting into a fatal accident, the funeral home, letters that I wish to be read at the funeral, people that were there, and on and on. Now, I know you don't know me, but you are probably saying, this person is certifiable, I am going to quit reading right here and now. Wait. I'm not. It's a mood swing I have after almost 3 weeks of quitting. I have not missed a of day work since Day 1 (Legal Assistant) which is harder than anyone can imagine. I walk 2 miles in the morning, and I have cried more than I can remember. What happens is you feel again. The good, the bad, and the ugly. I keep telling myself this is a good thing. Maybe you should too?

    People, lately, have been telling me I look really good(?) which tells me I looked really bad before. This scared me as I had not heard this statement in the countless times I have tried before. I guess I am just coaxing you on to not let another minute be eaten out of your life by the pills. Keep trying. Never quit quitting. I haven't and will not.

    Hope
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  24. #24
    froggy_069 is offline Member
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    Force You seem to be in a good place today mentally, congrats man and way to keep your chin up! It's another day and I hope this one is good for ya'! Glad to hear you are thinking of jumping early, I suppose it really couldn't hurt at this stage of the game. You've come so far already and that in itself was not an easy thing to do I'm sure and a milestone all by itself. Whichever you choose I'll be rootin' for ya' ... you got this man!

    Good to hear you are sleeping fairly regular for the most part; From beginning to end it was always the hardest part for me, always! I got about 4 hours last night and as the morning rolled around the biggest of my symptoms were crawling skin, some GI issues, and of course RLS. Around 8 AM I decided to make the switch to subs, don't ask me why because in the past I've had problems with the switch even well after the 24 hr mark and this was only the 16 hrs in. Had I measured my symptoms against the COWS worksheet I'm sure I would have barely registered. Don't ask me what I was thinking because that could have had an entirely different outcome to say the least. Anyhow thankfully, no problems at all! All things considered I feel pretty darn good! I even had breakfast and lunch with my little one today which in the past would have been unheard of, I would go days without eating. She's already telling me what she wants chicken for dinner so I guess I know what I'll be doing later!

    Just being able to sit here now reading posts and enjoying a cup of coffee is pretty much a blessing!

    Anywho, keep up the great work man and keep pushing forward! You are never truly alone in this you know and it's only a nightmare if you allow it to be one! It's not easy bro, but you got this!!
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  25. #25
    TheCib is offline Member
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    Hey Forceout...

    Congrats on everything. The present is all we have, the past is behind us and the future well...
    I also could never taper. If I had a supply it went up in my nose.

    I know your sitting around alone trying to figure out your next move my friend. Do not dwell on the issues at hand.I also jumped cold turkey. Scared and without a clue of what was ahead of me. But minute by minute, hour by hour, and day by day things just got better.

    I read a ton of post on this site and every so often someone took time out of their day to reach out.Hanging on to every word to comfort my open wound of addiction.Slowly the fog lifted and I was feeling better. Just stay strong my friend. Follow a plan and jump ! You will be fine !
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  26. #26
    somo is offline Advanced Member
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    Frog, are you planning a quick taper off the subs? By quick I mean a week or less?

  27. #27
    froggy_069 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by somo View Post
    Frog, are you planning a quick taper off the subs? By quick I mean a week or less?
    LOL, funny Somo, I was just reading your posts from another thread ... you had me laughing!

    Yup, gonna shoot for 4 to 6 days. It's not for everyone I suppose but with my addictive nature the less time I spend on them the better. I caught myself today having to push back that messed up logic I have when it comes to things like this ... if 4 mg worked good then 6 must surely be better, lol! That's how it goes for me so I'm much better off with a quick on/off type deal.

    Are you thinking of the same thing?
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  28. #28
    somo is offline Advanced Member
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    Forceout,

    What do engineers use for birth control?




    Their personality!


    Sorry, that was lame! Hope you smiled tho! I'm an EE and Journeyman Lineman, so I have a ton of em'... that one may have been the funniest one for mixed company unfortunately!
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  29. #29
    somo is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by froggy_069 View Post
    LOL, funny Somo, I was just reading your posts from another thread ... you had me laughing!

    Yup, gonna shoot for 4 to 6 days. It's not for everyone I suppose but with my addictive nature the less time I spend on them the better. I caught myself today having to push back that messed up logic I have when it comes to things like this ... if 4 mg worked good then 6 must surely be better, lol! That's how it goes for me so I'm much better off with a quick on/off type deal.

    Are you thinking of the same thing?
    Yes. My easiest detoxes were a quick 3 day taper with subs. Made the mental much easier as well as the physical. Still some RLS and little sleep, but it didn't last long at all. Keep posting, and ask questions. There are a lot of smart people here who will encourage you as well! Plus, it's neat to go back a year later, and look at the misery in the rear view mirror!
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  30. #30
    froggy_069 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by somo View Post
    Yes. My easiest detoxes were a quick 3 day taper with subs. Made the mental much easier as well as the physical. Still some RLS and little sleep, but it didn't last long at all. Keep posting, and ask questions. There are a lot of smart people here who will encourage you as well! Plus, it's neat to go back a year later, and look at the misery in the rear view mirror!
    Unfortunately I have bit more than a years misery to look back on! I was actually clean for 8 years but ultimately relapsed and have been doing the back and forth thing for the past 2 yrs or so. I'll make it stick again because this lifestyle gets really old really fast! Plus I have my little one now and she is much more important to me than what I've been doing and she deserves better, as do I!
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