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Suboxone taper help.
  1. #1
    Kungfukenny is offline Junior Member
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    Default Suboxone taper help.

    Okay, so I've off and on read these forums for a long time. I never thought I would bother to make my own thread, but here I am. So let me give a background.

    I've been on some type of opiate/synthetic opiate for 11 years purely by choice and addiction off and on.

    Currently im 28, started abusing oxy back when I was 17. That got up to about 4-5 80mg oxy a day for a few years. I took time off from everything at this point in my life and stopped college for that time. I ended up going the ct route with that withdrawal and it was hell. I went about 2 weeks feeling awful. Days 2-10 the worst. After that I was clean for maybe a half year.

    Then I started back up with oxy again and went back down the same road. From my memory, which is foggy this was from 22/23 until maybe 25. At this time I once again ct withdrew and was clean for a few months again.

    I then once again got back into it, this time percocet, at this point I had finished college, most of which i was strung out for.

    During all of my addiction years I worked jobs that had a lot of physically demanding tasks, which I'm unsure has any affect on how opiates affected me in the long run.

    Okay, now we are on the last 2 years of my life thus far. I have been on suboxone. My doctor prescribed me 8mg once a day and after reading around I decided that was too much. I started at 4mg for about 1 year. Then slowly worked down to 2mg. No withdrawal at all. From 2mg to .5mg was a breeze and .5 to .25 was easy as well. Now I'm at a stand still. I can take .25mg and feel good. My doctor gave me clonidine for at night if needed for RLS. I know the Thomas recipe well and I also take a lot of the vitamins on the list.

    I have waited 5 days and dropped to .12mg roughly and honestly I have maybe 2-6 "good" hours of my day. The rest feels like the beginning stages of withdrawal and I wake up withdrawing pretty bad. I know at a 46-72 hour half life I shouldn't feel so bad after maybe 24 hours, but I've dealt with withdrawal so much I know that's what im feeling, but at the same time I know it's a mental game too.

    Just a bit confused on the taper. Is 5 days too little to wait at this low dose? Too many years doing opiates and I just need to suck It up? I have a physically demanding job and enough suboxone to do this taper any way needed. I can get prescribed benzos, but I would rather stay away from those until I am on no suboxone at all just for my days dealing with PAWS and hopefully helping on the depressing days that always caused my old relapses. I know at this point I've spent more of my adult life on drugs than sober, so I'm just curious if anyone else here who is knowledgeable has done a long stint with opiates followed by a few years on suboxone. Just need a bit of input on what to expect coming off .12mg. With my job skip days seem impossible. Maybe I should just continue to ween myself lower and lower until I'm taking nothing?

    I guess I'm just seeking some advice and support mostly. I have no idea what to expect with the amount of years I've been on all this stuff. Thanks all.
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  2. #2
    1232 is offline Member
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    I'm not sure I can help much with the taper question.

    What I'd like to ask is what your plan will be after sub? Have you identified why you keep going back to opiates? Seems like you're on a rollercoaster. Is it lifestyle, or maybe you have EDS? I know for me personally, I never felt like my brain worked great from a youngish age. Not a lot of consistent energy or vivacious happiness, depression, etc..

    Let me know if you wanna talk more about it.

  3. #3
    Wavision is offline Member
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    Hey Kung,

    I'm basically right where you are with my taper. I have been on subs for about 6 years and the most I got up to in a day was about 4mg.

    I started my taper on 1/2 at 3mg. I just made the drop to .125mg today.

    I notice you say you went from .25 to .12?? Why such a big drop? It is recommended that you only drop 25%.

    Why don't you go from .25 to .18 to .125?? That is what I did and it has been pretty easy.

    To get .18, just take a .25mg piece and remove 1/4th of it.

    What you are currently doing is over a 50% drop, and you said you are fine on just .25, so you know how powerful this drug is even at tiny doses.

    I would recommend going up to .18 and then dropping to .125. While the drop from x.18 to .125 will be a little more than 25%, it is nowhere near 50%+ like you are trying now.


    Also, during my entire taper, I have madey drop after 4 days. That is until my last drop, which was today. I stayed at .18 for 7 days before dropping to .125 today.


    Let us know your thoughts.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 03-05-2018 at 03:47 PM.

  4. #4
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey kungfukenny. Welcome to the forum. Glad you found us. Congratulations on your taper thus far. Getting down to .25mg is quite a feat in itself. Wav gave you some great advice on how to continue from this point. Also I wanted to add that at this dose you can jump whenever you're comfortable doing so. You'll have some w/d symptoms of course but they won't be severe, just some mild discomfort for a while. Think of it as a cold you have get over. You've got the Thomas recipe and the comfort meds you can do this. I would suggest working in the skipping days process before you jump though. It allows the long half life of suboxone to "catch up" and slowly dissipate in your body and make for a softer landing. Wav mentioned the suboxone taper plan. Give it a read, you can skip most of it and go straight to tapering.

    You're almost there, get excited!
    Congratulations again and welcome!
    Beef

  5. #5
    Kungfukenny is offline Junior Member
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    Everyone thank you for the replies. My hardest part in the suboxone journey was getting from dosing 2 times a day to 1 time in the morning only. I wake up for work at 4am, so by night time I've always found my body (or maybe just my mind lol) metabolized enough where I started to feel bad. In hind site I think this was mental. Much like when I used to drive to score I was always 100x better on the car ride than the hour before someone answered me back. Once I told my mind no more at night I was able to get past it.

    1232: I don't feel I ever took all that long of a break. I ct off it twice *oxy* and went back within months each time. My mental state was at an all time low. I had a great childhood that fell apart a bit as I aged. I think I had a hard time coping with it and drugs were such an easy answer. I've always worked a lot so money wasn't really an issue either. Especially with the prices 11 years ago! Anyways, without going too personal a lot of my life is leveled out. I'm dating an amazing girl, my sister is doing great, she has beautiful kids, my mother is happy again, and I'm starting to patch up my relations with my father. The last thing I am looking to do is go back to using. After that many years I am truly tired... I'm also not ignorant to thinking I'll never crave, but I do truly believe my core reason for using is behind me and so is the want for the high. The want to wake up just normal some day in the future is an all new high i am chasing. I know days will be bad, and days will be good, but as long as I have everyone in my corner I got this. Thank you for the concern, and if I ever feel the urge striking me I will seek someone out to talk right away.

    Wavision: thank you for the reply. I'm glad to see you are tapering off successfully thus far too! The reason for my drop being 50% is simply a miscalculation lol. I had gotten used to doing 50% drops and didn't think much of it on the smaller doses. I felt minor discomfort day 1 and a half of taking .125mg. A slight sense of uneasiness and a heavy lack of sleep due to RLS. I believe I should be pretty much balanced out on .125mg and bumping anything back up scares me more than another night of iffy sleep. Cutting it out entirely Is going to be hard I feel. It's literally crumbs but boy do I tell myself they help me big time....and maybe it is. I'm really pleased with the progress so far though! Some days are going to be harder than others coming up, but with a nice steady taper I see so many people overcome this. Best of luck in your journey too!

    Beefaroni7272: thank you for the reply And kind words! I have read .125 is a very comfortable jump point. I have also read some people opt to continually cut the dose down until they are down to 0mg? I have enough suboxone to go about this any way I please, so I'm open to all suggestions. Maybe I should continue to cut down once more in a day, skip Friday and see how my weekend plays out without taking any? I have a strong desire to be off this stuff, but I don't want to rush myself either. Not for fear of relapsing, just for my own mind games. I think the slow steady route works best for me on convincing myself I need less and less of the suboxone.

    Again, thank you all for the replies! I will update as I go through this and let you all know how it is going.

  6. #6
    Kungfukenny is offline Junior Member
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    Well another morning at .125. Surprisingly worse than I expected the night to be, I got sleep but it was off and on, not a big deal though. Guess I should have considered a 25% reduction. The day seems to go good once I start moving around a lot more and doesn't get iffy until late at night. So for today all should be good over here. I expect to level out comoletely on this dose by tomorrow I hope.

    It's getting to the point where I need to crush my pills and divide it into piles for doses. Luckily I have a couple years under my belt with crushing pills lol.
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  7. #7
    Wavision is offline Member
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    Do you have access to gabapentin? Many, including myself have found this to help tremendously with symptoms. This includes RLS, anxiety, and sleep.

  8. #8
    Kungfukenny is offline Junior Member
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    Wavision: I likely could get pretty much whatever from my doctor with the length of the relationship if it helps. I've managed to stay extremely comfortable thus far minus some night time issues.

    I was also freezing cold all day and it was 40 degrees out. So that was a bit odd. Just got to work moving around and warmed up enough though. I find music is therapeutic to listen to when I'm not feeling great.

    I'll definitely ask about the gabapentin when I talk to him.

  9. #9
    Kungfukenny is offline Junior Member
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    Well I managed about 4 hours tonight. Woke up at 3am, been waiting to get ready for work. Got about another hour left.

    Not too bad, but would appreciate more sleep before I even completely stop the stuff lol.

  10. #10
    Kungfukenny is offline Junior Member
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    Well got through work. Tonight isn't going bad so far. Usually doesn't until later anyways.

    So one thing I forgot to mention is when I took my 2mg pills and broke them in half I always took the bigger half. So I am left with all small halves of 2mg pills. I have been breaking those in half, then breaking that in half, then crushing that piece and dividing it by Aprox 2 piles. I feel like I'm likely under .125 right now.

    Maybe I should just make the complete jump.

  11. #11
    thefigurehead is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kungfukenny View Post
    Well got through work. Tonight isn't going bad so far. Usually doesn't until later anyways.

    So one thing I forgot to mention is when I took my 2mg pills and broke them in half I always took the bigger half. So I am left with all small halves of 2mg pills. I have been breaking those in half, then breaking that in half, then crushing that piece and dividing it by Aprox 2 piles. I feel like I'm likely under .125 right now.

    Maybe I should just make the complete jump.
    Hi Kenny -

    You might want to consider skip days, like the Taper Protocol calls for. Basically you take your dose and skip one day, then take your dose and skip two days, take your dose and skip three days, then take a final dose and then jump. It is supposed to help soften your landing, as Beef calls it. I choose to skip the skip days and I just CT'ed off .25 mg's, but I was hasty and impatient.

    Whatever you decide, keep posting when you have time. Let us know what you decide.
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  12. #12
    Kungfukenny is offline Junior Member
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    Well I couldn't fall asleep until late, but I got 6 hours. Feeling good today prior to my dose. So either tomorrow or the next day will be my first skip day (I hope!)

    I read a lot over the last few days and just off my reading I find more people have an easier time skipping days just as you said. So I think I'll go that route over just stopping.

    I am anxious about not having my "meds" in the morning, but I take some vitamins now that I'm trying to tell myself are giving me more energy than the suboxone does. I really feel my time is coming to get off this stuff. .

    Thank you everyone who has given input, it is appreciated.
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  13. #13
    Kungfukenny is offline Junior Member
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    Alright. Well I'm heading into work and skipped my sub dose. Let's see how this goes.
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  14. #14
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kungfukenny View Post
    Alright. Well I'm heading into work and skipped my sub dose. Let's see how this goes.

    Hey Kenny -

    You're on your way now! Going to work is going to work out well as it will help distract you from what's going on with the skip days. All your thoughts will be consumed about if you will be ok doing this, are you going to make it, should I have waited a bit longer to start skipping, etc. But the time is right and you made the best choice. Proud of you for what you've accomplished.

    Try to go about work as usual. Try not to watch the clock so much as the day will be extraordinarily long. You'll be home before you know it and once there try to do something to stay busy even though you'll be tired from working all day. That's the key to get through this. A few more days and you'll be 100% free and that's something to look forward to.

    Well done my friend,

    Randy

  15. #15
    Kungfukenny is offline Junior Member
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    Skip day 1 complete!

    Don't feel bad yet. Going to see how I do throughout the day and decide if I need to dose today.
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  16. #16
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Nicely done. Not so scary anymore huh? Skip days definitely help. You're probably riding the long half life of the subs right now. (24-72 hours) next step is dose and skip 2 days. I'd recommend it, but it's your choice. You're doing a great job!!! This will be behind you soon!!

    Have a great day!!
    Beef
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  17. #17
    Kungfukenny is offline Junior Member
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    Not so bad at all. I actually haven't taken sub since my first "skip day" ... which was 3/9...its now 3/11


    I don't feel great, but not terrible. Worth dosing?

  18. #18
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    It's your call. I'd advise the skip days. But I also know that when you're done you're done. If you're ready to call today day 2 clean than congratulations. Let us know what you decide. Either way, we got your back!!!

    Beef
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  19. #19
    Kungfukenny is offline Junior Member
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    I haven't bothered yet. Just keeping busy for now. Vitamins, inprofuen, stuff like that. Bit no sub. Aside from being heavy and tired I'm doing pretty great. A lot of mood swings I suppose.

    Thanks all!
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  20. #20
    Kungfukenny is offline Junior Member
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    Well today is the morning of day 4 without a dose.

    Trust me. I want a crumb badly. But I want this over more. I think today and tomorrow will be the worst physically. (I hope)

    Not too sure though. I'll keep yall updated. I'm at the parking lot drinking my coffee about to head to the office and go about my day.

  21. #21
    Wavision is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kungfukenny View Post
    Well today is the morning of day 4 without a dose.

    Trust me. I want a crumb badly. But I want this over more. I think today and tomorrow will be the worst physically. (I hope)

    Not too sure though. I'll keep yall updated. I'm at the parking lot drinking my coffee about to head to the office and go about my day.
    Hey Kenny, congratulations on the skip days/jumping.

    Today was supposed to be my first skip day, but I conveniently woke up with the flu.

    I think tomorrow will be my first skip day. I'm at .125 as well.

    Have you noticed that big of a difference between being on .125 and jumping off yet?

    What were your main symptoms at .125. West about now?

    I really haven't had many issues at all through my entire taper and am just trying to see how you're feeling compared to pre jump. Need to know what I could be up against while having the flu. Might be beneficial mentally having the flu because I can chalk symptoms up to that ha ha.

    Let me know. Keep up the great work.

  22. #22
    Kungfukenny is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wavision View Post
    Hey Kenny, congratulations on the skip days/jumping.

    Today was supposed to be my first skip day, but I conveniently woke up with the flu.

    I think tomorrow will be my first skip day. I'm at .125 as well.

    Have you noticed that big of a difference between being on .125 and jumping off yet?

    What were your main symptoms at .125. West about now?

    I really haven't had many issues at all through my entire taper and am just trying to see how you're feeling compared to pre jump. Need to know what I could be up against while having the flu. Might be beneficial mentally having the flu because I can chalk symptoms up to that ha ha.

    Let me know. Keep up the great work.
    Thank you. Nights suck. 110% nights suck. No way around that. I am an electrician and have yet to call out. I didn't do a skip day, just jumped from around .125. I take vitamins, 5 hour energy and klonopin to sleep. L-tyrosine to wake up better. Also a once a day vitamin.

    Truth be told I don't feel bad. I'm tired. I'm heavy. I wish I just felt normal. But the prospect of feeling normal outweighs going back. Good luck man. You can do it!
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  23. #23
    Kungfukenny is offline Junior Member
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    I actually think I jumped down too fast. Some of my reductions were worse than my final hop off the meds, sorry, didn't answer that.
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  24. #24
    Wavision is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kungfukenny View Post
    Thank you. Nights suck. 110% nights suck. No way around that. I am an electrician and have yet to call out. I didn't do a skip day, just jumped from around .125. I take vitamins, 5 hour energy and klonopin to sleep. L-tyrosine to wake up better. Also a once a day vitamin.

    Truth be told I don't feel bad. I'm tired. I'm heavy. I wish I just felt normal. But the prospect of feeling normal outweighs going back. Good luck man. You can do it!
    Thanks for the info.

    That's cool you're an electrician. I'm a lighting designer and do layouts and photometrics for various big name companies....interior and exterior.

    I'm not looking forward to the nights. Hopefully I can get a decent amount of sleep.

    Good luck and keep up the great work.

  25. #25
    Kungfukenny is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wavision View Post
    Thanks for the info.

    That's cool you're an electrician. I'm a lighting designer and do layouts and photometrics for various big name companies....interior and exterior.

    I'm not looking forward to the nights. Hopefully I can get a decent amount of sleep.

    Good luck and keep up the great work.
    Thanks man! So hey. You're the guy I do a walk through with after the rough and makes me put in 13 change orders huh? Haha just kidding. Always thought that was an awesome job!

    I wish I could drop names of the people's houses I did. Just simply can't on this forum.

    ANYWAYS....last night was ooookay. Today is day .... 5? And I go called outta work for terrible weather. So I'm taking it as a sign to rest up and get ready for day 6. I don't think it's over, but it's ending.
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  26. #26
    Kungfukenny is offline Junior Member
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    Alright. Still going....

    Yesterday not going to work was the worst day. Worst thing I could do is do nothing. So at least when I'm forced to get up and work it takes most of the pains away. Not that I'm over here dying, but my body being so heavy gets tiring in itself.

    I find it best to just pretend it's non existent and work through it.
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  27. #27
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Yup. You gotta stay active. I hated it while I was detoxing, but it helped me so much looking back. Woke up feeling like I weighed 1000 lbs. No motivation. Had to work. But eventually I'd find myself just going about my day. Sure I didn't feel great, but it was better than just being on the couch all day watching the clock. Even if it's just a walk to the mailbox. Get up and get out there. You're doing great!! Keep up the good work!! It only gets better from here.

    Congratulations!!
    Beef
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  28. #28
    Kungfukenny is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefaroni7272 View Post
    Yup. You gotta stay active. I hated it while I was detoxing, but it helped me so much looking back. Woke up feeling like I weighed 1000 lbs. No motivation. Had to work. But eventually I'd find myself just going about my day. Sure I didn't feel great, but it was better than just being on the couch all day watching the clock. Even if it's just a walk to the mailbox. Get up and get out there. You're doing great!! Keep up the good work!! It only gets better from here.

    Congratulations!!
    Beef
    Thanks beef! You've been awesome support for me here. Yesterday around 5pm I decided to run/jog my block a few times, which helped me sooo much. After that I decided to go shovel my driveway (I have a plow contract) but I wanted to keep moving. Did that and cleaned off the cars and man oh man what a difference.

    Today went pretty great. To anyone who is scared of the jump feel free to pm me, comment here, or anything. I promise you all the worst of it was being scared it was going to be worse than it is. I'm not perfect, but I'm on the mend and boy does that feel amazing. I promise you all, you can all do it too!!!

  29. #29
    Kungfukenny is offline Junior Member
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    Still going. Taking a while to bounce back. Haven't missed any work or anything though.

  30. #30
    Kungfukenny is offline Junior Member
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    God only 8 days since I stopped....man time is dragging
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