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what are the options dealing with maniacal son? besides cops and 302
  1. #1
    pgh491 is offline Member
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    Default what are the options dealing with maniacal son? besides cops and 302

    What are the options? Demanding subs from his mother. creating what could be a threatening situation.
    does he really NEED these drugs, or is it more psycological. Was on subutex...has taken 48mg suboxone in last 24 hours. Anyone else ever gone thru this? I'm upset concerned and scared right now.

  2. #2
    Joshua P Brown is offline New Member
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    If he has been on them already he dose really need them, depending on what there for. if its for opiate abuse it is very important. my best advice is to get him to a suboxone doctor and have them give him the proper dose and then you can talk about tapering off of them. ill be on for a while if you have any questions, I would love to help you but I need to know more about what he is on and how long. I have been on suboxone for 5 years so I know allot about it what you should do and not do.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 12-18-2012 at 06:44 PM.

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    Joshua P Brown is offline New Member
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    If he has been on them already he dose really need them, depending on what there for. if its for opiate abuse it is very important. my best advice is to get him to a suboxone doctor and have them give him the proper dose and then you can talk about tapering off of them. ill be on for a while if you have any questions, I would love to help you but I need to know more about what he is on and how long. I have been on suboxone for 5 years so I know allot about it what you should do and not do.

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    Kikker is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgh491 View Post
    What are the options? Demanding subs from his mother. creating what could be a threatening situation.
    does he really NEED these drugs, or is it more psycological. Was on subutex...has taken 48mg suboxone in last 24 hours. Anyone else ever gone thru this? I'm upset concerned and scared right now.
    suboxone is meant to be used SHORT-TERM, certainly NOT 5 yrs or longer. and it also should be taken in the lowest effective doses. he DOES NOT need more subs right now. 48 mgs in his system within the last 24 hrs is an over-the top amt. no one ever needs that much sub in that time frame.

    because the half life of sub is so long (up to 72 hrs) he can go without any more sub for a day or two and be perfectly ok. he should get to a sub doctor tho and get this straightened out asap. problem is most sub docs have little idea how subs should really be used and taken. hopefully he can get a doc that does know and understand this med.

    him demanding subs from his mother is addictive behavior. more subs will have NO EFFECT right now anyway....he has taken too much and it is affecting him adversly in my opinion. get him to that doctor and go from there is what i suggest. keep posting and good luck.

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    pgh491 is offline Member
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    thanksA
    Quote Originally Posted by Kikker View Post
    suboxone is meant to be used SHORT-TERM, certainly NOT 5 yrs or longer. and it also should be taken in the lowest effective doses. he DOES NOT need more subs right now. 48 mgs in his system within the last 24 hrs is an over-the top amt. no one ever needs that much sub in that time frame.

    because the half life of sub is so long (up to 72 hrs) he can go without any more sub for a day or two and be perfectly ok. he should get to a sub doctor tho and get this straightened out asap. problem is most sub docs have little idea how subs should really be used and taken. hopefully he can get a doc that does know and understand this med.

    him demanding subs from his mother is addictive behavior. more subs will have NO EFFECT right now anyway....he has taken too much and it is affecting him adversly in my opinion. get him to that doctor and go from there is what i suggest. keep posting and good luck.
    I've been calling nar-anons around. I'm goin to a mtg on thurs. I need to understand what others have to say. Because of these drugs...his life could be ruined, criminally...know what I mean ?

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    ARTIST658 is offline Platinum Member
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    That amount of subs is outrageous - and could be toxic. Unlike other opiates, more subs do not help more. He expect more will make him feel better - and it will not. Quite the opposite. In that situation, you call 911 and get him medical care, as I have no idea what that kind of dose could lead to. It's an opiate - and that dosage is off the charts.

    Your son is wrong, thinking more will help. If he is out of control, get help.

    Read through Robert's thread on suboxone, to get an idea how these things work: https://www.drugs.com/forum/featured...apy-50887.html



    Because of these drugs...his life could be ruined, criminally...know what I mean ?


    Because of these drugs, he could die - or hurt someone else. That's more important. If there are consequences to his drug use, you are doing him no favors by protecting from those consequences. Drug addicts don't seek out help when everyone makes it easier for them to use. They seek out help when the pain of the consequences is more than they can bear.
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    pgh491 is offline Member
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    I think you're hitting on it with "consequences" What are they? Right now he doesn't think anything is real. Make any sense? As always, thanks.

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    ARTIST658 is offline Platinum Member
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    There have to be consequences - and if he isn't feeling them, then someone is making it easier for him.

    Call 911 when he's off the wall, and let the police or doctors get involved with this insanity. Legal action will get his attention. Court rooms can be pretty frightening.

    If he doesn't have the money for his bills - or gas - or drugs - let him walk. Let him go without. Let his bills lapse. Let his checking account bounce. Do not give him any money for any reason whatsoever. He's old enough to earn his own.

    If he's out all night, don't make excuses for him if he misses work. Don't downplay it to friends or family that "he has a flu." Be honest. When you make excuses or gloss over what's going on, you're enabling.

    Why is ANYONE dispensing this young man 48 mg of subs in 24 hours??? First off, read Robert's thread. It's HIGHLY unlikely that he needs more than 8mg, at the very most. Probably less! He's trying to get high - and he can't get as high as he wants, because of the nature of the subs. That's his frustration. That's why he's flipping out.

    Who is paying for the subs? Surely he isn't. Subs are a luxury, and he is abusing them. Stop paying for them, if that's what you're doing - as he is not using them the proper way that could help him!!! If you are helping to supply the subs, you are perpetuating the problem. Subs are not essential to get off other opiates; in fact, they're relatively new. He's looking for the easiest way to do this - and, from the sound of it, he isn't really trying.

    Is he over 18 and living at home? Does he work? Does he contribute to the household financially? Those are reasonable expectations for an adult son. If he can't, then he needs to find another place to live. You can not coddle an addict - that just leads to more drug use.

    Right not, every single thing that you do to make his life any easier is helping him to continue to use. He has to feel the full consequences of what drugs are doing to his life before he will WANT to get clean. Before you do anything for him - ask yourself, "Is doing this going to help him in any way to use more drugs?" If the answer is "yes" - even remotely - then do not do it. Do not fold to his guilt trips or manipulation. That's his disease trying to control you.

    If he is not feeling consequences, then make it your mission to find ways to make him to feel consequences. You can drop a dime on Crime Stoppers and report his dealers. If he lives at home, you can go through his room and throw out any contraband you find. You have the right as the homeowner, to not have anything illegal in the house. You are up against a monster of a disease - so you need to pull out all the stops, as well.

    And YES - get to as many Alanon or Naranon meetings as possible!!! Please keep us posted.

    God bless,
    Ruth
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    Kikker is offline Advanced Member
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    Artist (Ruth) absolutely nailed it, pgh....it would do u well to take her advice and suggestions here. this is someone with yrs of experience that also works in the field of substance abuse providing u with the "road map" of exactly what needs to be done for the sake of ur son.

    no way that i could say it any better than Ruth has done in her posts here. her statement that ur son is trying to get high by taking more subs is 100% correct. it's no use for him to even try, subs just don't work that way.

    take her advice and go from there. please keep us informed.

    well said Ruth.

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    pgh491 is offline Member
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    Thanks and God bless you, Ruth
    He's 21, doesn't work. Lost his liscence, due to be returned in Jan. Has no friends. Those that came over brought drugs. Had that stopped. Now, he's stopped hygiene and is undesirable to be around. Seems like clinical depression, to me. Lives a miserable existence, thinking the drugs make it tolerable. I've told him, you're taking pills because you're taking pills! stupid. It's like he has a closed head injury and the part of his brain that is damaged is the part that's needed to understand!

  11. #11
    ARTIST658 is offline Platinum Member
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    This can not possibly be diagnosed as "clinical depression" as long as he is taking any opiates, including suboxone. The very nature of the drugs lend themselves toward depression. His normal brain chemistry has been altered by the drugs he's taking, so that the neurotransmitters that moderate our moods (seratonin, dopamine, etc.) can not flow freely. So his moods are under the control of the drugs. The only path out of the depression is to stop the opiates - and give it time to return to normal. There's no short-cut to healing in that direction.

    The drugs give him the illusion that it's easing the depression, but in the long-run, it's just perpetuating it. The drugs mask it - but only briefly. In fact, as time goes on, it will help less and less, but he will keep chasing that relief. This behavior (taking more drugs to relieve depression) is common.

    He is not stupid. He is not an idiot. He has a disease that has control over him right now, and he can not think for himself. It's been referred by some as similar to "having our brain hijacked." Normal reasoning is altered. Denial runs deep. This is a disease that repeatedly tells us that we're ok - that we don't have a disease. You can't reason with this disease.

    I'm curious, is he just lying around your house, using drugs? What's stopping you from telling him that he has a choice - go to treatment or find another place to live? (I haven't been able to be on this forum regularly, to know what's been going on, so I apologize that I do not know.) What are you doing to compel him to be accountable and responsible for his predicament?

    Ruth

    PS... I'm in the woods of New England, in the midst of a snow storm, so I'm not sure if I'll have great satellite reception for the internet for a day or two... but will try to check back soon!

    You will know the truth - and only the truth can set you free.

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    pgh491 is offline Member
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    He lives with his mother and her parents I've said throw him out numerous times...she's afraid he'll die. I can't say that she's wrong, but I think it's up to God. She pays for everything.She has never stuck to what she's said in his life. Force would be required to evict. Is a total lack of empathy typical of addictive behaviour? Or, is he simply a sociopath? Is this a criminal issue or health?
    thanks Ruth...glad you're there. (snow here tomorrow)

  13. #13
    ARTIST658 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgh491 View Post
    He lives with his mother and her parents I've said throw him out numerous times...she's afraid he'll die. I can't say that she's wrong, but I think it's up to God. She pays for everything.She has never stuck to what she's said in his life. Force would be required to evict. Is a total lack of empathy typical of addictive behaviour? Or, is he simply a sociopath? Is this a criminal issue or health?
    thanks Ruth...glad you're there. (snow here tomorrow)


    See if you can get her to attend some Naranon or Alanon meetings with you. Both of you need to know more about this disease - and how you're impacting on it. Basically, when it comes to addiction in the family, you're either part of the problem - or part of the solution. Seldom are family just neutral by-standers.

    This is not an issue of lack of empathy or sociopathic tendencies. This is not a criminal issue, although drug abuse does often result in criminal activities. Despite appearances to the contrary, addiction does not signify that a person is weak or lacking in moral character.

    This is a health issue. Drug addiction has been recognized as a bona fide "DISEASE" by the American Medical Association since 1966. Addiction is a bio-behavioral disorder, meaning it has biological (genetic) factors, as well as environmental ones. It is a disease that affects every aspect of a person's being - physical, mental, social, emotional and spiritual. It affects the portion of the brain that controls motivation and reward (the nuclear accumbens) - which is also the area that controls our moods.

    Here's a link to another post about this disease, and another 'piece' of the factors involved, if you're interested: https://www.drugs.com/forum/need-tal...ion-58760.html

    The disease of drug addiction is highly resistant to treatment. Overcoming this disease requires addressing ALL of the areas that addiction touches, which generally requires nothing short of extraordinary measures. Since the drugs have replaced the individual's other (healthier) coping skills, an addict is often overwhelmed by the process. They need help. This is not a disease that we can overcome on our own. (It's very rare to work that way.) Guidance and support from those who have education or experience in this area is essential. That is why AA and NA work. The "fellowship" of these programs is founded on the basis of one addict helping another, free from judgement. The actual "program" is the 12 steps. Those 12 steps are the roadmap toward undergoing this "overhaul" of our lives, essential to overcome this disease.

    Your son is not weak. He is not brain-damaged. He has a disease that is far more powerful than he is. That disease is ruling his mind, his body and his emotions. He can't see his way out of it. What he has come to learn is that the *only* thing that relieves his pain (physical/emotional/mental) is more drugs. This disease fools us into believing that the misery we're feeling is only going to get worse when we stop using.
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    pgh491 is offline Member
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    Thanks Ruth...great information. Explains alot of my mother's irrational behaviour. Working on his mother trying to get her to read your posts. Says she doesn't have the time! blows me away.

    Blessings and thanks, as always.

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    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    PGH: Sorry to hear your son is still where he is. Ruth's advice is good advice. I know you will try to do all that you can to save him from himself. I wish you the best!

    Peace,

    Iloerose

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    mottam is offline Advanced Member
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    pgh:
    Short and simple: The suggestions that you are getting on this forum from Ruth are based on her experience.
    Take them to heart, as she has wisdom (experience) and offers you her suggestions based on her experience, not advice.

    Very well articulated Ruth! pgh - please consider her suggestions.

    In my prayers.
    Kindest Regards

    mottam
    Persistency is consistency

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    pgh491 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by iloerose View Post
    PGH: Sorry to hear your son is still where he is. Ruth's advice is good advice. I know you will try to do all that you can to save him from himself. I wish you the best!

    Peace,

    Iloerose
    Thanks for the kindness Rose...You're alright. Merry Christmas

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    iloerose is offline Platinum Member
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    You're welcome, PGH, Merry Christmas to you, too!

    Peace,

    Rose

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