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Help methadone to norco to suboxone help please
  1. #1
    ELCO is offline New Member
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    Default Help methadone to norco to suboxone help please

    Ok here is my question and info.
    I have been on norco 10 milli 2008 swapped to methadone 10 milli on 2013 because of accessibility and now I need off and I'm done and want to switch to suboxone but I have been off methadone for 4 days after taking it twice a day for 4 years i went from 2 a day to 1 a day this last 6 months now I have been taking 3 norco 10 milli in the morning and 3 in the evening to now just 3 norco this morning to nothing at all and need to get on subs to just be done with methadone.
    Now my main question is I know I'm an addict and I want to now if still after the 4 days wait off methadone and on norco what is the estimated time I would have to wait get on subs. It's been 12 hrs since my last norco intake but I just am worried about the dones still in my system if it's gonna still be lingering or what should I expect time wise befor taking the subs.
    Thanks for all help and info

  2. #2
    dsh12345 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELCO View Post
    Ok here is my question and info.
    I have been on norco 10 milli 2008 swapped to methadone 10 milli on 2013 because of accessibility and now I need off and I'm done and want to switch to suboxone but I have been off methadone for 4 days after taking it twice a day for 4 years i went from 2 a day to 1 a day this last 6 months now I have been taking 3 norco 10 milli in the morning and 3 in the evening to now just 3 norco this morning to nothing at all and need to get on subs to just be done with methadone.
    Now my main question is I know I'm an addict and I want to now if still after the 4 days wait off methadone and on norco what is the estimated time I would have to wait get on subs. It's been 12 hrs since my last norco intake but I just am worried about the dones still in my system if it's gonna still be lingering or what should I expect time wise befor taking the subs.
    Thanks for all help and info
    Sorry for the late response. Complicated question. Methadone to suboxone can be tough, and further complicated by adding a vicodin duration in between.


    The best, objective way to determine if you are ready for subs is to use the COWS worksheet to grade your symptoms. You can google it and find it. One respected former person this forum recommends a score of 26 before starting subs, and a minimum of 3 days off methadone. So, you got the hard part down the 3 days off methadone, but granted teh vicodins were in your system recently.... last night was 12 hrs so if you havent taken anything yet maybe its been 24hours since last vicodin use and 5 days since last methadone use?


    Check yourself on the COWS sheet, see what you score, 26 is the high end of recommended score before starting subs, but I would stick with that number because methadone usually has the highest chance of precipitated WD as ppl continually underestimaet how long it lasts, so I would go with a something near 26 range on the COWS sheet to score yourself for when yo uare ready to start subs.



    Let me ask you this..... if you were able to get down to 10mg methadone a day.... what are your ultimate goals? Why switch to subs? Do you want to get off everything for good, so a sub taper was the plan to get you through the WD's? I mean if you already could get yourself down to 10mg of methadone a day.... have you consdered further wearning that down to 5mg a day and then less and then jump off a very small dose of methadone? Or do you feel you are not ready for being off opiates completely right now due to fear you will relapse, so you are looking for opiate replacement therapy for the time being and just dont like the methadone for whatever reason anymore (side effects, etc) and wanna switch to suboxone maintenance for the time being?

    What are your end goals here? That would be helpful to know.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 05-01-2017 at 04:13 PM.

  3. #3
    ELCO is offline New Member
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    Thank all for the response and help well to answer your question I have tried the taper off dones and it just was to hard and I failed twice and I also tried off dones and taper off norco hut they are just as $$$ as dones when you have to take so many to just be normal all day so I actually have the opportunity to do the switch and I have learned from here a plan from to taper off the subs in hopefully 8-10 weeks. I have been on these so long and I did do this to myself and so I just am over it after 7 years of money and time and crazy mood swings in between it has to stop.
    So this is where I am. Last dose of norco was Saturday at 9 am and I couldn't take it anymore so I took half a 8/2 sub at 645 am and actually fell asleep about 730 and woke up at 1130 and have Good and ok till about 8pm and I took another 8/2 hole piece at 1120 pm just now and I am waitn for it to kick so I hope I didn't over do it

  4. #4
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELCO View Post
    Thank all for the response and help well to answer your question I have tried the taper off dones and it just was to hard and I failed twice and I also tried off dones and taper off norco hut they are just as $$$ as dones when you have to take so many to just be normal all day so I actually have the opportunity to do the switch and I have learned from here a plan from to taper off the subs in hopefully 8-10 weeks. I have been on these so long and I did do this to myself and so I just am over it after 7 years of money and time and crazy mood swings in between it has to stop.
    So this is where I am. Last dose of norco was Saturday at 9 am and I couldn't take it anymore so I took half a 8/2 sub at 645 am and actually fell asleep about 730 and woke up at 1130 and have Good and ok till about 8pm and I took another 8/2 hole piece at 1120 pm just now and I am waitn for it to kick so I hope I didn't over do it


    Please be careful how much sub you take. It's extememly strong and a little bit goes a long way. Can you update and let us know how you're doing today? Help and support is here for you, but you have to keep us informed how you're feeling.

    Randy

  5. #5
    ELCO is offline New Member
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    Hey guys sorry for the late response I'm a business owner and it's been crazy lately but for one thank you for the time and effort you have put into me and my situation and so let me update.
    I have been good and straight on 1 sub 8/2 at 11:00 am since Tuesday this week and it will last all day and I take it at the same time daily but I don't always need it but I a plan on staying on one sub till next week or 2 and then start the taper with a .5 for 2 weeks and so on till I'm totally off the subs as well. Now I do understand that this might not be the best plan but I have read so much into this and as long as I have subs and family support and from myself aswell to keep this going to better myself and my family. So what do you think of my plan to stay in the sub and then taper like I have described.

  6. #6
    dsh12345 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELCO View Post
    Hey guys sorry for the late response I'm a business owner and it's been crazy lately but for one thank you for the time and effort you have put into me and my situation and so let me update.
    I have been good and straight on 1 sub 8/2 at 11:00 am since Tuesday this week and it will last all day and I take it at the same time daily but I don't always need it but I a plan on staying on one sub till next week or 2 and then start the taper with a .5 for 2 weeks and so on till I'm totally off the subs as well. Now I do understand that this might not be the best plan but I have read so much into this and as long as I have subs and family support and from myself aswell to keep this going to better myself and my family. So what do you think of my plan to stay in the sub and then taper like I have described.
    Everybody's taper plan is a little different.... it's not rocket science however.. you just gotta keep taking less over time until zero so if you wanna drop 0.5mg every 2 weeks and you find that works for you, then start there. If you find after a week of a drop, you feel fine, then perhaps just 1 week at each stop is perhaps best rather than 2. Again, read your body.

    The only thing I wanna add.... starting at 8mg suboxone is a bit high. Coming from maybe as low as 10mg methadone and a couple vicodins a day... you might be giving yourself wayyyy more opiate than you need in suboxone so you might be raising your tolerance and going backwards when you take 8mg/day.

    Ideally, you should have taken like 0.5mg at a time until you felt fine, that way you know the absolute minimum amount you need. YOu mention being able to skip some time and feel fine at 8mg/day... again the power and length of halflife of suboxone at play here.

    Dunno what to suggest, as I don't want to interrupt something where you can say you feel "fine" and not miserable right now. My only suggestion would be the get off the higher doses of 8mg/day as quick as possible. You will probably find that 4mg/day can hold you. If it were me... I would just try 4mg/day right now and see what happens. I know it sounds risky, but you took a jab at 8mg in the dark so there's nothing magical about 8mg/day. Give a quick drop to 6mg or 4mg an honest try and see if it will hold you, and then taper on down. If that works, it'll save your brain from being exposed to 8, 7.5, 7, 6.5 mg doses for a couple months and make the rest of the taper that much harder.

  7. #7
    ELCO is offline New Member
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    Yeah I think your right Monday at my usual 11 am dose I will see how long I am go and hopefully a half will do the same but I will just say this I have been an opioids addict for years from norco 25 daily for years and had a better idea thanks to a good friend that had a bad accident and was put on methadone since 2011 and I would use no less than 1 till now befor the switch but as much as -2-4-6 depending on that first couple days when you get your "prescription " but also not proud of it just to be on the same page but what I am proud of is this site and help I have gotten and thank you dsh 12345 hearing another with experience helps daily. I will touch base tomorrow and see how the half dose works. Thanks again.

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    dsh12345 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELCO View Post
    Yeah I think your right Monday at my usual 11 am dose I will see how long I am go and hopefully a half will do the same but I will just say this I have been an opioids addict for years from norco 25 daily for years and had a better idea thanks to a good friend that had a bad accident and was put on methadone since 2011 and I would use no less than 1 till now befor the switch but as much as -2-4-6 depending on that first couple days when you get your "prescription " but also not proud of it just to be on the same page but what I am proud of is this site and help I have gotten and thank you dsh 12345 hearing another with experience helps daily. I will touch base tomorrow and see how the half dose works. Thanks again.
    One important thing to keep in mind.... the sub half life can be anywhere from 24-72hrs, with most averages saying 37hour is a good number for the half life of subs.


    So, subs are like riding a wave, it's not like vicodins where we dose and instantly know if it made us high or whether the dose was too low. The idea that vicodins you took 2days ago are still very much in your system working on you is a crazy concept I know, but that is exactly what is happening with subs.

    If you take 8mg/day and then one day immediately go to 4mg, you won't know for at least a couple days whether 4mg/day will hold you. It's not like take 4mg in the AM, and see how you feel in the PM.

    That is because yesterday's 8mg dose still has like 6mg left working you on, and the day before that 4mg from that day are still working on you, and like the day before that you still got like 2mg from that dose working on you, so that is ~2+4+6mg = 12mg in your blood already there and holding you the day you wake up and decide to take that 4mg dose. It'll take some time for the older higher doses to wash out, so that you can see if 4mg/day can truly hold you it will take a couple days. That is why Robert Plan suggested a MINIMUM of 4 days at each dose drop... that way the higher doses have time to wash out and by the end of the 4th day you can get a true reading of whether your body can get by on 4mg/day dosing.

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    ELCO is offline New Member
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    Ok I gotcha I'll wait till what's in me already wear down and in 3-4 days I'll start With 4 milli and go from there.
    Honestly I didn't take anything today cause I still do feel good so let me ask this how long should I be on a stable milli befor I start to taper down.

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    dsh12345 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELCO View Post
    Ok I gotcha I'll wait till what's in me already wear down and in 3-4 days I'll start With 4 milli and go from there.
    Honestly I didn't take anything today cause I still do feel good so let me ask this how long should I be on a stable milli befor I start to taper down.

    No, I did not mean go cold turkey 3 days then take 4mg/day. I meant if you wanna attempt 4mg/day, give it 2-4 days at that dose before you decide if you can handle it or not. Like, if you have been maintaning at 8 day, start 4/day today and 2 days after taking 4mg/day should be a good sign whether your body can handle that as it is only getting by at 4mg/day at that point and not being propped up by the previous doses of 8 from the day before and the day before and etc. There should be 12-36hrs of UNMISTAKEABLE constellation of withdrawal symptoms that should be there if your body is telling you that isn't enough.... like watery eyes/nose, RLS, insomnia, body aches, diarrhea, GI upset, hot/cold flashes, etc. Don't crack and think you can't handle it due to a couple hours of fatigue or restlessness or 1 night of bad sleep that could be due to anything.

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    ELCO is offline New Member
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    Oh no I gotcha I am gonna just get back to where I was and start on the half once I restart I'll make sure and touch in.

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