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I need support cold turkey methadone
  1. #1
    quicknick12 is offline New Member
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    Default I need support cold turkey methadone

    I am tired of the clinic and how I feel on methadone. I am currently taking 190mg daily and will be switching to subutex cold turkey with the help of support meds. my doctor said he could help me switch but I would need to go 4-7 days without methadone before I can start subutex and he is giving me a lot of support meds like gabapentin, zofran, visteril, clonidine, ambien, etc. I plan on doing this next week. I don't expect it to be as easy as you say but I just need to make it through without going to the hospital for dehydration which he says is the only medical concern. Would love to hear peoples thoughts.

  2. #2
    Ricky71 is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by quicknick12 View Post
    I am tired of the clinic and how I feel on methadone. I am currently taking 190mg daily and will be switching to subutex cold turkey with the help of support meds. my doctor said he could help me switch but I would need to go 4-7 days without methadone before I can start subutex and he is giving me a lot of support meds like gabapentin, zofran, visteril, clonidine, ambien, etc. I plan on doing this next week. I don't expect it to be as easy as you say but I just need to make it through without going to the hospital for dehydration which he says is the only medical concern. Would love to hear peoples thoughts.
    Nick - I've read your other threads before they got deleted. Try starting a new thread and make sure you don't break any forum rules, that is most likely the reason why your last threads were deleted?

    Don't take about illegal/illicit drugs, buying off the street, etc...

    Here's a link to the forum rules so you can read through them - https://www.drugs.com/forum/drugs-co...les-17285.html

    P.S.
    Don't try to jump cold turkey from 190mg/day methadone, you'll be in a world of hurt! Also, make your new thread in the "Need To Talk" forum, there is a lot more traffic there! Seek out Randy35 and leave a message on his thread, here's a link - https://www.drugs.com/forum/need-tal...ump-65786.html
    He has successfully made the switch from methadone to subs and has been clean off of everything for a couple of years now!

  3. #3
    quicknick12 is offline New Member
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    Yes I was confused at first why my threads were deleted but I understand now. I just cannot continue on methadone and I realize how monumental this dose is. obviously this is not optimal for a switch and I didn't even realize people attempted to switch above 30 until I spoke to my sub dr who has switched multiple people from higher doses than me. I spoke with him about prescribing some shorter acting opiates like oxycontin to make the first few days off methadone more comfortable and then after maybe 3 or 4 days stopping the oxycontin and going 24 hours without it before trying to begin subutex. I would being using the COWS scale to gauge before trying to begin with a small dose of subutex like 1mg

  4. #4
    Ricky71 is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by quicknick12 View Post
    Yes I was confused at first why my threads were deleted but I understand now. I just cannot continue on methadone and I realize how monumental this dose is. obviously this is not optimal for a switch and I didn't even realize people attempted to switch above 30 until I spoke to my sub dr who has switched multiple people from higher doses than me. I spoke with him about prescribing some shorter acting opiates like oxycontin to make the first few days off methadone more comfortable and then after maybe 3 or 4 days stopping the oxycontin and going 24 hours without it before trying to begin subutex. I would being using the COWS scale to gauge before trying to begin with a small dose of subutex like 1mg
    Nick - Again, I would advise and encourage you to seek out Randy's advice before moving forward! I can promise you that he knows more about methadone and subs than most of the doctors who prescribe them!

    I'm glad you know about the COWS worksheet, scoring a 26 or higher is crucial and of the up most importance before induction on the subs!

    I'm not sure about switching from the methadone to oxy idea before your induction on subs? Even if you took oxy for 3-4 days after stopping the methadone I believe that you would still have to detox from the methadone because of it's long half-life? This is a question that Randy can definitely answer for you? I wish you the best of luck... God bless us all!
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  5. #5
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by quicknick12 View Post
    I am tired of the clinic and how I feel on methadone. I am currently taking 190mg daily and will be switching to subutex cold turkey with the help of support meds. my doctor said he could help me switch but I would need to go 4-7 days without methadone before I can start subutex and he is giving me a lot of support meds like gabapentin, zofran, visteril, clonidine, ambien, etc. I plan on doing this next week. I don't expect it to be as easy as you say but I just need to make it through without going to the hospital for dehydration which he says is the only medical concern. Would love to hear peoples thoughts.


    Hello QuickNick -

    Sorry it took so long for me to respond. Got way busier than I had planned to be.

    Ok, the ideal way to switch to subs from methadone is to reduce the mdone down to aorund 30mgs. That's the IDEAL way to do it. As I understand you're planning on stopping at 190mgs and making the switch. It's certainly doable, just takes a lot more willpower and a positive attitude. The reason is it will take waiting longer in wd's before you can safely take any sub to avoid those dreaded precipitated wd's.

    Your doctor is absolutely correct, it will most likely take you around 4-7 days after stopping the mdone to be able to induct on the subs. Maybe even longer if you stop at 190mgs. The mdone is strong with a very long half life as the subs do so it sticks around in your system quite a while. You have to take your time allowing as much of that half life to dissipate before the sub induction. Reducing the mdone further to about 30mgs is the best way to do this, but if you're convinced you can do it at the dose you're on I wish you the best.

    Use the Cows and be honest and accurate with your scoring of wd symptoms. You must get to a score of 26 or higher before taking any sub. You'll be extremely sick in wd's so plan on that in advance. I would NOT use any other opiates such as Oxy to limit the symptoms as that defeats the entire purpose of waiting to induct. Don't use ANY COMFORT MEDS for the same reason. You'll be waiting in wd's to induct after stopping the mdone, and heading towards that score of 26 needed on the Cows. If you take anything in the way of meds or supplements that will make you "feel better" it will only DELAY your progress towards your Cows score and make you suffer unnecessarily. Not what you want happening. You'll have to be as sick as possible before takign the sub. That's just the way it is. But soon as you get a little sub in your system you'll immediately begin feeling so much better!

    Do this right the first time and you only need to do it once.

    Coming from methadone you'll probably need a little more sub than someone that switched from another opiate due to the strength and half life of the mdone. Took me 8mgs to become stable following the plan to the letter. Once you waited the necessary time using the Cows you should begin your induction with a 1-2mg dose of sub and wait at least an hour before taking more. Has to have time to work to it's full potential. Then take another 1-2mg dose and wait again. After that begin taking .5mg doses every hour until stable. The goal is to be on the LOWEST effective dose, not the highest. Sub works differently than other opiates, the less you take the better you'll feel.

    That should do for now. Continue posting and updating us. We're here to help and support you through this. I've ben in your shoes so I know what you're dealing with here. It's not easy by any means, but if I can do it so can you!

    Randy
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  6. #6
    quicknick12 is offline New Member
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    Default Thanks

    I appreciate the response and definitely understand what you're saying, I wish I could switch even lower than 30mg but I just don't see myself having the willpower to control my taper over such a long period of time. Subs on the other hand I don't have trouble with because I really can't even feel them and don't notice them unless I don't take them. I am confused though with what you're saying in terms of comfort meds, I get what you mean but since I know that Im not going to be ready to even consider taking sub before day 3/4, why wouldn't I take the comfort meds? I understand later on in the process how it would confuse my COWS score but I really think that during the first few days it would help tremendously considering the dose I will be coming from.

  7. #7
    quicknick12 is offline New Member
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    Default haven't taken any since Friday

    So I decided the day after thanksgiving to make the jump and had my doctor call in some roxicodone 30mg to keep me out of withdrawal for a few days while I quit methadone. Today is Wednesday night almost Thursday and I stopped the roxicodone at 10pm Tuesday night, waited until 430pm Wednesday to take 1mg of sub. Waited 40 mins and didn't feel worse so I took the other half. Didn't think I felt worse maybe even better so I took a whole two mg at 6pm or so and started feeling not great I mean I have to be honest I wouldn't say I was in severe withdrawal when I took the sub but I was looking at the COWS sheet and figured that I was close and the time I waited should be good. Anyway around 7 I started to feel pretty solid withdrawals. I don't know if it was precipitated withdrawal but it was enough to make me take some roxicodones at 9. I slowly started feeling better and now feel normal. How do I proceed? I have a trip planned to visit my girlfriend on Friday and I want to be on sub stabile and not in withdrawal by then. Is this even possible?

  8. #8
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by quicknick12 View Post
    I am confused though with what you're saying in terms of comfort meds, I get what you mean but since I know that Im not going to be ready to even consider taking sub before day 3/4, why wouldn't I take the comfort meds? I understand later on in the process how it would confuse my COWS score but I really think that during the first few days it would help tremendously considering the dose I will be coming from.

    Hey Nick -

    Before I get to your other post I wanted to answer this question about the comfort meds. The reason not to take them is as I said earlier it could, and probably will delay the Cows score and make you suffer longer than necessary. In my own personal experience I've seen addicts that were on Methadone be ready, per the Cows, after 2 days or 48 hours to take the sub. Imagine if they had taken some kind of "comfort med" during those first 2 days? It could have made them wait longer to induct, wait longer to get to the 26 score on the Cows, and suffer a day, possibly longer than needed to be. That's why we always say no comfort meds during the time you stop the drug of choice and waiting to induct on the subs.

    Congratulations on your jump. That's a victory in itself. Wish you had left the Roxi out of the equation, but what's done is done. I understand the why of it, but in my opinion it's never a good idea. Again, MY opinion.

    You're probably still in wd's from the methadone, but the sub you took is covering it up. And after you had some sub in your system taking the Roxi won't do a thing as the sub is much stronger and blocked the receptors in your brain from them getting through. Sub is crazy strong. Much stronger than many realize. I think you felt better not because of the Roxi, but because the sub began to work.

    So how do you proceed as you asked? If it were me I would get rid of all the Roxi you have left. If you have any left flush them and be done with that. I would not take anything, including the sub, and hold out as long as you can until you feel the wd's beginning. Shouldn't take long. When you can't stand it any longer then begin taking 1mg of sub and wait an hour to give it plenty of time to work. Sub works fast for some, but slower for others. Take another 1mg if needed, which you probably will. Take another 1mg after waiting an hour between doses. Then start taking .5mg doses every hour until you're stable and feeling as normal as possible.

    If you do that you should be feeling quite well by the weekend. I expcect it to take between 4 and 8mg of sub to get you completely stable. Usually takes a little more sub when someone is coming from methadone.

    That's what I would do if it were me, or I was helping anyone else in the same position.

    Let me know what you think and how it goes. All the best to you. I'll be around if you have questions or concerns.

    Randy
    Last edited by Anonymous; 12-01-2016 at 09:49 AM.
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  9. #9
    quicknick12 is offline New Member
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    Default have not used methadone since day after thanksgiving

    It has been up and down and I can't say I feel 100% but I wasn't expecting that. I definitely felt it necessary to use short acting opiates to cover the residual (considerable) withdrawals from methadone after switching to dupe but I have been on only bupe clonidine and ambient for sleep for I believe 4 days now. The main thing I'm noticing is that I am generally very cold even when indoors or normally comfortable environments. I live in Palo Alto California and it has been in the 50's which for how I currently feel was impossible to stand for more than two or three minutes even wearing long sleeves and two light jackets. Anyway I just wanted to check in and say thank you to everyone and I want people to be able to see that it is far far FAR from impossible to switch from even an extremely high dose of methadone. Im grateful I didn't experience and precipitated withdrawals and that I was able to sleep a lot of it off and didn't experience nausea. I can't say enough how helpful clonidine was. Of the six medications prescribed to me for this switch I only took ambient dupe and clonidine. As far as my bupe dose I really wouldn't say I have stabilized but I would figure its between 6-10mg. Im going to stay in that range until some of the residual withdrawal effects stop and then Im going to try to get under 2 mg within a month or two. Like many others have said high doses of bupe is a weird feeling and I really don't plan on staying on it for very long. Overall Im insanely grateful for where I am now because I thought I would never get off methadone based on what I was told and what I read. For anyone reading this in a similar situation, I really would not describe myself as strong willed or particularly tough when it comes to withdrawals so don't think you need to be either to get off this poison.
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  10. #10
    quicknick12 is offline New Member
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    Also my usual dose of methadone was generally 220-270mg but it fluctuated and I would say 180-190mg would hold me. I was on methadone for maybe 10 days short of a year. and had been using 200-300mg of IR oxycodone before that for 5-6months.

  11. #11
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey Nick haven't heard from you are doing & feeling OK please post let me know how your doing.

  12. #12
    quicknick12 is offline New Member
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    Still staying strong, I went and saw my doctor yesterday to get more subutex as he only prescribed me 30 2mg which I used up super quickly so now I got some 8mg. It felt great to tell him that I did it successfully and am doing well. We talked where I want to go from now and he thinks I should rapidly taper off within a month or at least start tapering soon and then stay at 2mg for a few months until I feel that I'm ready to get off subutex. Im torn but I think I will plan for the latter.

    I appreciate the post, how are you doing as well?
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