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Short Term Detox Plan in play, getting nervous on final Sub Jump
  1. #1
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    Default Short Term Detox Plan in play, getting nervous on final Sub Jump

    Attempting a Mix of rb3br and Robert 325 detox plan after a grueling 3 yr 180mg Oxy/Hydro mix addiction, and as many here, I have a long history of substance abuse- but some serious clean time too! I can not say enough about what a great inspiration I have found here in your forums!..... BTW - had typical doc prescribe Sub 16mg twice daily- I read up enough, got scared of sub, and had him rewrite the script down to 8mg x 30 days - wish I had asked for 2mg x2 a day.. Any Newbies in my boat, I suggest you read up on Roberts Taper plan, and follow that- as I might be taking unwarranted risks on my short plan! ..anyway Here is where I'm at:

    Jumped Oxy/Hydros 2pm 12/23 Forever!

    I'm at Day 6 no Oxy/Hydros
    Inducted at 2mg Sub split into 2 1mg doses 12/24 8am and 2pm
    12/25 2mg Same as above
    12/26 2mg Same as above
    12/27 1.5mg 8am
    12/28 1.5mg 8am
    12/29 1.0mg 8am

    I had 4 days off for xmas and it was a real saving grace, as I decided to endure as much w/d symptoms with as little sub as possible, many positive distractions with the holidays helped me thru. I have weaned down to 1 Mg sub today at 8am down from 1.5mg once last 2 days.

    I feel better today than the previous 5 by far, they were not fun but bearable with Sub at hand. I have also had 2 emotional breakouts on day 1 and 5 and man, I mean full blown emotional breakdowns, I was laying out a river, not sure if that is a reoccurring theme as I have not seen too much about this on the threads I have followed.

    Here's my concern and questions for any who would be willing to share their input(s):

    1) Yes I'm moving way fast, but my mind is made up- I want to jump the sub after attempting to split a dose down to .5 at 8am tomorrow and that's it- I can take another 4 days for New Years beginning 12/31 and hopefully be done-
    Am I setting myself up for failure???- I feel it can be done.

    2) Any opinions on this short of a time frame, will I have any real sub W/d's - Have I substituted one w/d of oxy/hydro for an oncoming additional w/d from the subs? I have convinced myself the worst might be over, but I am a realist. ( I have yet to be down this far this road, regarding opiates ie 6days off oxy/hydro)

    3) I have another concern as I have a back up plan to re-induct at .5mg- should I have a problem adjusting to no sub-but I have 8mg strips- and I have a real hard time cutting 8's down to 1mg strips as I have ET- I guess I can just trim corners of the film and see if that works if needed?

    4) I have yet to see any one comment on when one Jumps from subs completely should I dump my remaining strips, less maybe one or two if re-inductions might have to occur?- Not the plan, but I like a back up in case- I just assume dump them all to avoid the temptation!

    5) Any tips for anxiety- it is extremely overwhelming at times, any one had success with Fish Oil? Just read up on this will pick up some tonight, cant hurt.

    I'll attempt to post my progress -

    Lastly, thanks for any help and encouragement- I opened my wallet today, and actually had cash in it-life is looking up already!!!!

    God Bless all of you and wishing you all in need, a speedy recovery!!!!

    Bogey

  2. #2
    Catrina is online now Diamond Member
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    Welcome to the Boards!

    Your plan is very ambitious and I admire your enthusiasm. Good for you. I've seen people here do a quick taper and get it done but it can be tough. I would ordinarily agree with you to trash the left over subs once you decide to jump but because of the long half life, you are apt to not feel the full effects of jumping for a few days and you might be sorry. Your backup plan is a reasonable one. The one that includes preparing to reinduce at a low level if this doesn't work. Don't be stubborn. There's really no need for it. Robert's Taper Plan is used almost universally here for a reason. It works for the long haul. I don't mean to rain on your parade. I'm actually a strong proponent of getting clean the way we believe we can follow to the end whether it be cold turkey, tapering your doc or subs. On the other hand, if you are going to use subs, I'm also a strong proponent that you use the method that is tried and true around here. Sorry. Probably not what you want to hear. Either way, keep posting and ask questions. If you're determined to try your way, have at it and I truly hope it works.

    Bette or Randy will be along and they'll share their opinion and their's is more valuable than mine. I'm just proud of you for doing something about this and wanting to start a new year squeaky clean. Congratulations on this major decision. It's a good one.

    Peace,

    Cat

  3. #3
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you for your response Cat, and I actually welcome any rain on the parade that helps me meet my goals. I am a realist to the extent of facing possible obstacles I am not prepared for. Your response has given me additional courage to accept a longer taper if needed.

    I Just hate to lose the 4 days off to take my final punishment from this hell, I will keep posting progress, and hope you and other experienced posters will check in with me-

    As I have no experience on posting on forums, I certainly will appreciate additional contact from the two you mentioned Bette & Randy.

    I have resolved question 3- as doc called in 7 x 2mg- looks like ins won't cover WTF am I paying 1k a month for!!! Arghh-

    Tomorrow may suck, but it won't be as bad as day 1!!!!

    Thanks!!!!

  4. #4
    silverlining1 is offline Senior Member
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    Bogey...

    Your plan will be fine. You won't feel any worse w/d's, so don't worry about that. BUT, you will have to be mentally prepared. Because that is harder than the physical.

    I can't stress that enough. You are not going to feel 100% for several weeks, but you aren't going to be sick
    You have to keep moving, exercise, walk....just keep going and resist that one little pill, cause it won't ever be enough.

    I've done what you have, several times, and only when I got my mind right, did it stick. Try to avoid the yo-yo of 'well, that wasn't that bad' 'one pill won't hurt', cause you will find yourself right back where you finished and stronger.

    Hang tough, and keep resisting and you will be done.

    Change your habits, eat right, and get plenty of exercise, even walking, cause that will help your body to produce endorphins which will make you happy again.

    Yes, you can DO this.....you are through the physical, more or less. Good luck!

  5. #5
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you Silver, I have read many of your posts as I ramped up to my jump date- it's an honor to hear your kind words of encouragement!

    I agree, and am gearing up for the mental discipline - I had 15 years clean from Rock and that's what it took-100% mind control over my car heading back to the hood on auto pilot-lost a few battles to the auto pilot but won the war- now onto my final battle-

    I'll post tomorrow- I look forward to yours and others for advice and any encougement on this path I'm on.

    God bless,

  6. #6
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    12/30 .50 mg sub 7:30am - couldn't make it to my usual 8am! not looking good for jumping tomorrow!
    7 days no oxy/hydro a milestone!

    Slept poorly, woke and felt worse like day 3 again- Well I was blessed with a good day yesterday! Wet cold rain may have something to due with added joint pains -

    Took the .50, and was planning to bring another .50 to work just in case, but after a hot shower, and some eats, forgot to bring it with me- That is a good sign?

    I may modify my taper based on Catrina's sound advice, as I analyze this, I see I have done well on two day tapers to this point- if I make it thru the day on .50 I may try to stabilize at .50 thru tomorrow, drop to .25 stabilize and reset my jump date-

    One question to any out there with Sub experience:

    Is it more risky to jump too soon and have to re-induct >> waiting out a slower taper method?- I truly want to get this out of the way by the weekend- yet it seems re-induction is two steps back, and I fear this may be a possibility based on my progress today- my progress has been all forward to date. I guess I am looking for reassurance that its ok to re-induct if I fail my first attempt....

    On a positive note, two thinks that help me mentally:

    1 Corinthians 10:13- this verse is my source of strength to move forward.

    and

    Wounded Warriors- I think of these brave men and women and their pain, and remind myself that mine is inconsequential in comparison!


    God Bless!!!!
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  7. #7
    Catrina is online now Diamond Member
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    Hi,

    Glad you're hanging in there. What you're feeling now is the effects of a quick taper, I'm sorry to say. There are those who toughed it out but it's just that--toughing it out. The reason is the very long half life. You take some sub and feel great on Day 1. Take a little more on Day 2 and feel great! This is going swimmingly so you keep doing that. The piece that's missing is that because of the half life, the amount in your system is building with every dose and not diminishing. Does that make sense? Wise Randy says," do it right and you only have to do it once".

    Others I hope will chime in but if you decide it best to do the slow taper (I think it is) the induction process is less difficult. You won't have to wait until you are in full withdrawal but instead figure out the lowest possible dose to stay OUT of withdrawal. Randy and/or Bette can help you with that better than me. If you need and want their help with this, send up the red flag by posting on one or both of their threads and they'll be here to help. They are both pretty awesome that way.

    Keep in touch and be sure to let us know what you decide.

    Peace,

    Cat

  8. #8
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    Cat, thanks so much for the check up, and continued support- means more than you know to me!

    Just a quick update on my progress, today was tough but I think I'll make it thru the day- my taper seems to work at 2 day intervals >> 4 days per Roberts proven plan, - I do have a fast metabolism, and that may be a factor for me-
    I planned to Jump tomorrow, plans have changed and I have to work tomorrow, this is a factor on the jump date too.- and Thanks to Cat's wisdom, I have the courage to accept my limitations and look to stabilize at .50/.25 tomorrow as needed. I can take 3 days off next weekend for a revised jump date of 1/5- 1/7.

    One odd note, the less Sub I take the clearer my mind becomes, is this normal? It is a great incentive to keep the taper up, and my drop date on a short horizon....I also dumped the 8mg's and picked up the script of 7 x2mg's so I can cut down strips to .25 now ....I feel renewed again!!!!

    God Bless, and Thank You!

  9. #9
    Catrina is online now Diamond Member
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    Almost everyone says that they feel best on daily doses of less than 1mg. So good. Glad you've decided to not rush things. Better to take a bit of longer now than end up having to go backwards a bit before you move forward, yah know? Keep posting. Proud of you to have made it through the day,

    I will expect regular reports

    Peace,

    Cat
    Last edited by Anonymous; 12-30-2015 at 06:06 PM.

  10. #10
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    I don't know how you keep givin Cat.... but keep it coming, I might need ya for the final ride home-Keep up the great gift you're giving for all those you come in contact with!

    I will certainly keep my progress up to date, and you truly are a blessing my friend.

    God bless-

    Bogey
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  11. #11
    Catrina is online now Diamond Member
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    I'm delighted to be here and it's worth every single second if i can help someone even a little. I've been there many times and for a long time. I know the isolation and self hatred. All of it. I also know that kind people held my hand when I needed it and I won't ever forget it. This helps me too.

    Peace,

    Cat

  12. #12
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    8th day no Oxy/Hydro
    6 full days sub tapered from 2.0 to .50
    Slept 6 full hrs with assistance of 1/2 Ativan -feel pretty good so far, may post several updates for my own good- hoping to skip a day of my .50 sub- but I have a busy day- so I plan to bring .50 and split as needed.

  13. #13
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogey59 View Post
    8th day no Oxy/Hydro
    6 full days sub tapered from 2.0 to .50
    Slept 6 full hrs with assistance of 1/2 Ativan -feel pretty good so far, may post several updates for my own good- hoping to skip a day of my .50 sub- but I have a busy day- so I plan to bring .50 and split as needed.

    Hi Bogey.

    Read your thread and sorry I haven't chimed in sooner. You're in great hands with Cat I assure you. She knows this drill as well as anyone here.

    I have to admit I'm no fan of the "quick" sub taper because the relapse rate is so high. I see it happen here all the time. I also help many personal friends of mine and many others in AA and NA that are secretly on subs. Many insist on the fast taper only to be right back to their drug of choice or back on the subs and doing it over.

    With that said i know the fast taper has produced success stories too. It all boils down to who wants it the most. If you're 100% committed to your plan you can do this. I wish you all the success in the world to be clear.

    I would like to see you slow down a bit right now. Not stall completely, but take a little more time before your final jump. And sub is best when taken in the same doses at the same times each day.

    Maybe go from .5mg to .375mg then to .25mg. At that point either jump, skip days, or reduce further to .125mg. Just a suggestion. Not sure if you have the subs to do this or the time, but I know it would be beneficial to the final jump. Those that take it slow and steady have the MOST success after jumping. It lessens any symptoms at the end, as the day skipping process does.

    Anyway, welcome to the forum. Let me know if I can be of any help.

    Happy New Year!!

    Randy

  14. #14
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    Randy, thank you for your response and insight- I want some pain as a reminder of why not to go back- that said, I am prepared to attempt a skipped day today, but will carry if needed.

    1 question: the Sub appears to have kept cravings manageable - 5 min, and work the mind out of it- I am anticipating this to increase at jump date, do you have further insight as what to expect in this regard?

    Thank you for checking in, and Cat has been a true blessing -along with all on this forum!

    I'm updating thru the day

  15. #15
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    Feeling at 60%- bearable-so far

    Sneeze attacks coming on strong- funny my body has turned a sneeze into a modified 4-6 sneeze as a cough sequence- strange.... I am hoping I can make it till 7pm- based on my last sub at 7:30am yesterday, that should put me beyond my 1/2 life of sub- I'm ready to add .25/.50 if absolutely needed....my guess is I will have .75 sub left in my system at 7:00 pm- gonna take Randy and Cat's recommendations if I have too, and slow this a bit-

    Still concerned and trying to prepare for stronger cravings as I expect them to come- that might be my biggest fear right now- any advice on this from those who've been there?

    Also, I may need a new thread for triggers, as my significant other is a 10 yr user- she is not ready to stop - I am extremely worried about staying clean as she uses- again, if any can chime in on this subject- it will be so appreciated!

    I can sense the finish line, couple miles to go!

    Best wishes to all

  16. #16
    Catrina is online now Diamond Member
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    Hey Bogey,

    Doing good. Slow is better. I can comment on the cravings and what it's like to live with an active addict.

    While it's always good to have a plan in place, don't create unnecessary anxiety worrying about the "what if's". Yes. You will likely have cravings. So what? I'm not sure I can put into words my thought process that got me through them. I suppose my first coping skill was learned during detox. I'd set a small goal. Wait 15 minutes before I did anything. Most often it would pass. If it didn't, I'd set that goal again. It honestly didn't take long before I was setting 1 hr goals and then I'd be telling myself "not today. I'll reconsider tomorrow". They always passed. ALWAYS.

    Triggers. Yes they stink. Relationships in the best of cases are almost universally a trigger. Why? Because it's easier than dealing with issues and every relationship has issues like it or not and I've got some biggies. During my active use, I wouldn't fight, I wouldn't argue. I'd just go take a pill. When that became a non-option, I lost my temper. I think my family almost chit their pants! I was always terrified of doing that but you know what? It felt sooooo good. I puffed my chest out it was amazing! My first glimpse into what it felt like to react and have emotions. All of these small things add up and as you pile up the days, the more valuable they become and you won't want to go back. Another thing I did was to identify my triggers so that I was aware of them and they wouldn't sneak up on me. Some of them I called "setting up camp". For instance, end of day, want to relax, pop a movie in and what could be better than to take something. Setting up camp. I think you get what I'm saying.

    Living with an active addict. My son is a verryyyy active user. He's a mess actually. In the beginning of my own sobriety I was all over myself with empathy. If I didn't understand, who would, right? As time began to pass, it actually reinforced my resolve to never do that again. It's a reminder of what a mess I was and how much I HATE it. I'm sorry that it's my son that is the sacrificial lamb to remind me of what it's all about but for now it is what it is and it did it's job. I detest everything about it. Everything. I also resent it, by the way. Not that he is using and I'm not. Quite the contrary. I resent having to watch it. This might happen to you too. Mixed bag right here.

    Live in the moment and deal with things one moment at a time. We're here. Ask away as things arise. Someone will be able to tell you how they coped or how they did it.

    Peace,

    Cat
    Last edited by Anonymous; 12-31-2015 at 11:49 AM.
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  17. #17
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    Cat, again thank you for your wise words, I find you are reinforcing much of what I already know- I appreciate the "Puff Chest" comment as I had stood up twice already and reiterated my position of sobriety under all costs to her! I'm here as she is unsupportive-Givers / Fixers always have issues standing up with this I believe, to a fault.
    Unfortunately it's even more complex as she is under my employ-again, we can only work to fix ourselves first- I hate to think of her as a Sacrifical Lamb-but I will work on me only at this time.

    My plan is adjusting, hoping to skip today, but will supplement .25 as needed-and just power walked for 15min- feel a little better right this moment.

    Again can't thank you enough for checking in!!
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  18. #18
    Catrina is online now Diamond Member
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    You nailed it. You have to work on yourself and everything and everybody has to get in line. Once you are stronger, you will see a lot of things with more clarity including your gf. Working on her is a complete waste of time and heart. It's a process and I won't lecture you. Think of it this way: Did anyone ever say or do anything that made you want to be clean? Not me. I had plenty said to me and in that moment I knew I was a mess and needed to change. It lasted for about a minute. It was actually only after a time that no one said anything to me that I decided to do this and get it right this time. Not for them. For me. I think it's a control thing...."you can't make me!".

    Peace,

    Cat

  19. #19
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    Great end quote, and I'll add I can't control anybody.... But myself!
    To be clear, she is my wife- the last time this happened before marriage- I left the state for rehab, She got clean from crack as I did also- and 6 mos later we made a go of it and married. Since then I had 20 yrs clean with exception of 3 weekend warrior relapses and over 15 yrs total clean time until opiates arrived-she got caught by me on 12/2012. I found She was pushing a 7 year hydro habit- but I was strong, so strong, and thought I could "fix" this...but as the devastation of the thoughts of her bringing drugs into our lives again- well the trap was set- you see, I forgot- after 15 years clean, I was and always will be an addict. I tried to put her first, and forget to take care of number one first.

    I meant not to unload all this baggage, and as I have one last client for the day pending, and feel as I'm about to cut onions - I'll finish posting before the day is out.

    Thank you!

  20. #20
    Catrina is online now Diamond Member
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    We all have war stories, I'm afraid. I intend on being here most of this evening to keep Michelle company while she waits to induce her subs. I'm not being nosy but I would like to know more about you. I'll share more about me too if you want to know. I mentioned my son who will be 42 in January (ole fart that I am--young at heart tho). It's quite easy to share here and it helps. I've said things here that neither my family or best friend know. This is my safe zone. Treat it as your's too.

    Peace,

    Cat

  21. #21
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    Made it home, knowing my limits not jumping today - just did .25 sub- made it 32 hrs since last dose- and am happy to share info too- the fact I'm over 50 may have bearing on toughing out the short detox as planned- I'm beginning to wonder if those who succeed in less than 7-10 days might be 15-20 yrs my junior- as much as I still think my body is 25, it reminds me often I'm not!!!

    Feel fee to ask anything about me, my life's an open book-I am looking to make it till the am on the .25 and reasses my plan home from there. I'll add details on this wonderful world of life as I go...thank you for letting me get bear some of my burdens without fear of judgement!

    Enjoy, and wishing everyone a safe and happy New Year.
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  22. #22
    Catrina is online now Diamond Member
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    There's my new friend. I've been waiting for you. 50, huh? Youngster. Ha! Where are you hanging your hat? I live in a really small town in the Western Mass about 90 miles from Boston. We have a weekly newspaper that contains mostly advertisements and high school sports. Any news of consequence has long since been shared over breakfast at our one cafe.

    I just turned 62 and am days away from my 6 year clean date. I abused opiates off and on (mostly on I'm afraid) for the better part of almost 20 years. Tapering never worked for me. In true addict form, if they were there, they were gone. I tried every means I could find to detox easily including over $10K worth of Rapid Detox. Successfully lived through countless cold turkeys to only relapse days, weeks or a few months later. I wasn't delusional either. I knew I had no control but I wanted them anyway knowing full well where it would lead. In late 2009 I stumbled onto this site once again looking for the easy way. I didn't find it because the truth is that one doesn't exist. What I did find was an incredible group of people some who would stay up all night with me as we posted back and forth. Come to find out, just when I thought I was the only one who did the things I did, truly accepting that I would die an active addict I found my kindred spirits.

    I've been blessed with a wonderful family in spite of myself (not childhood!) and career opportunities I had absolutely no right to have but they were given to me anyway. I am a Realtor, help to run a family construction business, and am a primary care provider for my two grandchildren (my daughter's kids). My son, who will be 42 next month is a h***n and coke addict and lives mostly with me. That's another trilogy. I have a few really good friends and many acquaintances.

    That's me.

    Peace,

    Cat

  23. #23
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    We have much in common, please re-read my previous- I had mentioned "over 50" I prefer not give exact age let's say mid-ish 50's. Hardly a youngster and barely shy of your wise years!

    I'm a military brat - lived in 11 states and 3 foreign countries, and went to college in CT- so we might have been almost neighbors, I actually worked at family apple orchard just outside of Springfield ,MA while in school..I'm in Mortgages now, we work with builders and realtors on a daily basis,so another connection there also.

    I currently reside in the costal region of Alabama, and have a step son who won't show any sign of ever growing up and two grand kids also, although we are not the primary caregivers-we have been the financial providers.

    My great loves are snow and water skiing, and my grandkids, haven't been on the snow since Telluride in 2010- but still get on the water weekly as weather permits.

  24. #24
    Catrina is online now Diamond Member
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    You're kidding me! I live just outside of Springfield and there are a few apple orchards both in my Town and a couple nearby. My guess is that you are either talking Southwick or Amherst area. I'm closer to Amherst. We do have a lot in common. How you doing with the new TRID laws? They're driving me nuts! Getting fuel adjustments in 3 wks before closing. Really? We have to wing it and no one is happy with this estimate. Too cold--burn more fuel. Warmer, less. Not going to make everyone happy.

    I do have good relationships with my mortgage officers. Most of them anyway. Do you actually answer your phone or let it go to voicemail and not bother to call me back. Gotta tell you that'll make my day in a NY minute. My family business is residential construction. Just finished my CEUs to renew my General Contractor Supervisor License. I don't use it. lol I got it so that some of the arrogant builders I have can't throw their bs at me. I'll call them on a code violation. The builders I work with love me. If I represent the Buyer--not so much.

    Peace,

    Cat

  25. #25
    Catrina is online now Diamond Member
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    And you have to know how much they love being corrected by an old lady! I love to screw with them with this stuff.
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  26. #26
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    Farm was past and west of Southwick almost to Granville -Trid is a pain, but we get it right LE's are over estimated up front and CD's are tightened up and reviewed 5 days prior to close for issue accuracy- so it's smooth for us. We don't have fuel issues, I'm guessing that comes into play on your purchases and buyer estimates for pro rata cost they will be liable for?

    Phones are answered, or when VM is used, all calls returned with an hour mostly, and always by end of day!!! It's in my P&P manual I developed for my employees.

    Great ya got the GC, any issues I have, I just mention we can resolve or my wife will call and resolve. Works most times, except with underwriters. They require finesse and charm.

  27. #27
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    Cat, thanks for making this a bearable evening and keeping me company- I have a few chores and kicking back to watch the last half of the Alabama Michigan semi final game-

    Roll Tide- I'll be posting progress in the AM

  28. #28
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi there
    Bogey59..
    I just read your thread..
    You are going to do just fine..
    Determined and you have a plan..
    Sometimes just a plan is reassuring enough to keep us going..
    Don't you just love Cat?
    She is so full of wisdom and she says it like it is!
    We meet some amazing people on here..
    with one common goal!..
    To get clean..
    This opiate epidemic is scary to put it mildly!
    But those of us that have been chosen to get and stay clean
    Are the luckiest people in the world!
    You my friend are one of them!
    Welcome!
    What I have learned in the last year
    Is that
    I have got to put as much effort into my new life..
    I've as I did in my old..
    For me taking pills had become a job..
    Full time!
    With consequences and no payoffs!
    But this effort come back 100 fold!

    Idk if you have seen the Thomas Re I've on here?
    Minus the benzos suggested
    The vitamins and OTC Meds really do work!
    I still take them..
    19 months later..
    It is amazing what excedrin or Tylenol can do..
    Who knew?

    Happy New Year!
    Bette
    Last edited by Anonymous; 12-31-2015 at 10:07 PM.

  29. #29
    Catrina is online now Diamond Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    5,520

    Default

    Good Morning (I hope!). Happy New Year. I'll watch for your post a little later. I didn't make midnight. Who cares? I thing I know the area in Mass where you're talking about. You know WMass and I'm a Realtor so I do know all the small towns like Granville. Pretty area.

    Will check in with you later. Underwriters are a major pain in the butt. Finesse. lol. That's a pretty word for blowing smoke up their butt. That's what I do. Whatever works.

    Peace,

    Cat

  30. #30
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    35

    Default

    Bette thank you so much! And Cat we'll have to talk later-Quick update: awoke 2am full blown migraine - need to stay in dark room at least another 4 hrs to make sure I am breaking typical 3 day cycle

    I'll ck back around early afternoon if doing better!

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