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Asking for advice from mmt to sub or nothing
  1. #1
    Stixxx2012 is offline New Member
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    Default Asking for advice from mmt to sub or nothing

    Hello everyone,

    First off I want to thank the wonderful people on this board as I have been a long time reader, first time poster.

    Okay so I've been going to my local methadone clinic for around 4 years now.. I'm glad I went there as it has saved my life and I'm in a much better place in life now. On the other hand, I need to get out of there it's been way too long and I'm ready to be drug free. At one time I was on max of 155 mg/day and for last year it's been 127/day untill recently. It slowly went to 107 and then rapidly started a 5mg/day decrease untill either hit 0 or at 30 doc said could switch to subutex.. Which scares me as I've been thru precipitated withdrawal before and no way not signing up to go thru that again. So as if today I'm at 72 and decreasing fast within couple weeks will be almost single digits... I have panic attacks and PTSD and this situation is making anxiety really bad as I'm scared, dunno what to do or what's gonna happen. Should I switch to subs when get to 30 or 25? Or just go to 0 and walk away? Please give me your advice as I'm lost for first time in awhile and dunno what's going to happen.. Thanks in advance for your time and thoughts.
    (Prayers are always welcomed)

  2. #2
    Ricky71 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stixxx2012 View Post
    Hello everyone,

    First off I want to thank the wonderful people on this board as I have been a long time reader, first time poster.

    Okay so I've been going to my local methadone clinic for around 4 years now.. I'm glad I went there as it has saved my life and I'm in a much better place in life now. On the other hand, I need to get out of there it's been way too long and I'm ready to be drug free. At one time I was on max of 155 mg/day and for last year it's been 127/day untill recently. It slowly went to 107 and then rapidly started a 5mg/day decrease untill either hit 0 or at 30 doc said could switch to subutex.. Which scares me as I've been thru precipitated withdrawal before and no way not signing up to go thru that again. So as if today I'm at 72 and decreasing fast within couple weeks will be almost single digits... I have panic attacks and PTSD and this situation is making anxiety really bad as I'm scared, dunno what to do or what's gonna happen. Should I switch to subs when get to 30 or 25? Or just go to 0 and walk away? Please give me your advice as I'm lost for first time in awhile and dunno what's going to happen.. Thanks in advance for your time and thoughts.
    (Prayers are always welcomed)
    Hello and welcome to the forum. There are a few members here that have experience with switching from methadone to subs. I encourage you to read Randys thread, you can also leave a post there to ask for his advice for your situation, here's a link to his thread- https://www.drugs.com/forum/need-tal...ump-65786.html

    Best of luck to you. Be well... God bless us all!
    Lvg nghtmare and DravenDomnq like this.

  3. #3
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stixxx2012 View Post
    Hello everyone,

    First off I want to thank the wonderful people on this board as I have been a long time reader, first time poster.

    Okay so I've been going to my local methadone clinic for around 4 years now.. I'm glad I went there as it has saved my life and I'm in a much better place in life now. On the other hand, I need to get out of there it's been way too long and I'm ready to be drug free. At one time I was on max of 155 mg/day and for last year it's been 127/day untill recently. It slowly went to 107 and then rapidly started a 5mg/day decrease untill either hit 0 or at 30 doc said could switch to subutex.. Which scares me as I've been thru precipitated withdrawal before and no way not signing up to go thru that again. So as if today I'm at 72 and decreasing fast within couple weeks will be almost single digits... I have panic attacks and PTSD and this situation is making anxiety really bad as I'm scared, dunno what to do or what's gonna happen. Should I switch to subs when get to 30 or 25? Or just go to 0 and walk away? Please give me your advice as I'm lost for first time in awhile and dunno what's going to happen.. Thanks in advance for your time and thoughts.
    (Prayers are always welcomed)

    Welcome, Stixxx -

    As Ricky mentioned I made the successful switch to subs from methadone, as did many others here. Theres a right way and wrong way to do that. The hardest part is waiting in wd's long enough to be able to induct safely and avoid those precipitated wd's. I got in a big hurry and put myself into PWD's not once, but twice. Thought I was going to die I was so sick. Went ot the ER but they could do nothing. You know how it is.

    You have reduced your methdaone dose way, way, way too fast going down 5mg per day. Methadone needs to be reduced by 2-5mg every week or so. What will happen is you may feel ok for a while (due to the long half life) then all of a sudden the large reductions will catch up with you and the symptoms will be very rough and hard to handle. If you're going to reduce all the way to zero you really should slow down and take it very, very slow.

    Most don't want to wait that long or have the patience and switch to subs. It's easier to taper the subs than it is the methadone. Methadone is a full agonist and produces a high and/or euphoria where the subs are a partial-agonist and do not. The subs will allow you to curb your addictive thoughts and behaviors during the time spent on them.

    If subs are your choice then you could actually make the switch at any dose of methadone, but the lower the dose the better. Try to get to around 30 mgs (if possible) of methadone per day then just stop taking it. Now comes the most difficult part, waiting to induct safely. It took me nearly 90 hours of waiting in wd's before I could induct. We don't use "time" as an indicator of being ready to induct, we use what is called the Cows (clinical opiate wd scale) to make for a safe induction. The Cows takes the guessing out of it. You score your wd symptoms and once you get to a score of 26 pr higher it's ok to take the first dose of sub. Here's a link to the Cows below -
    https://www.drugabuse.gov/sites/defa...rawalScale.pdf

    Score yourself honestly and accurately. And you don't want to take any kind of "comfort" meds or supplements during the time you're waiting to induct as it can, and probably will affect your Cows score and cause you to suffer needlessly. If you do this right you only need to do it once.

    Here's a link to our sub plan below -
    https://www.drugs.com/forum/suboxone...apy-66109.html

    This explains the process that you'll want to follow closely. Once you hit the 26 score needed you could begin your induction with 1-2mg of sub because you're coming from methadone. Others would want to take a smaller dose of sub. Make certain to wait at least 60-90 minutes before taking more because sub works slower for some than it does others. You'll need more so maybe take a .5mg -1mg dose and again wait the required time. If more is needed, and you probably will, you would want to begin taking .25mg-.5mg doses until completely stable. It should take you somewhere between 4-8mg to do that. The goal is to be on the lowest effective dose, not the highest. Sub works differently than other opiates, less is more. You'll feel your best on the lowest possible dose.

    Ask all the questions you have. I'll do my best to chck back to see if you've responded. You can certainly do this if you follow the plan. It's a proven plan that have produced success stories for thousands of members.

    Randy
    Last edited by Anonymous; 12-13-2017 at 07:33 PM.

  4. #4
    grandma -bk is offline Member
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    I would just do the slowest taper of the meth and stay away from subsi...its just another drug your gonna eventcually have to with draw from any ways if your serius about quitting all together...we all have to pay the piper sooner or later...dont make it worse than it should be....ive been doing d aily opiods fo r almost 20 yrs...on 4th month of cold turkey....its not a s bad as my mind was making me think it was gonna be....if you want it bad enough you can acheive it...AND ONE more thing...I also get major panic attks and take no benzos.....but extra strong 2 bagger chamomile tea helps me....
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-18-2017 at 08:09 AM.

  5. #5
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandma -bk View Post
    I would just do the slowest taper of the meth and stay away from subsi...its just another drug your gonna eventcually have to with draw from any ways if your serius about quitting all together...we all have to pay the piper sooner or later...dont make it worse than it should be....ive been doing d aily opiods fo r almost 20 yrs...on 4th month of cold turkey....its not a s bad as my mind was making me think it was gonna be....if you want it bad enough you can acheive it...AND ONE more thing...I also get major panic attks and take no benzos.....but extra strong 2 bagger chamomile tea helps me....

    Hey Grandma -

    I see you posting all over the place and that's perfectly fine. I checked to see if you had your own thread and found you didn't. Why not begin one of your own and tell us a little about you. We like to get to know members and how they get or got where they are now.

    Randy

  6. #6
    grandma -bk is offline Member
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    I keep putting it off...I'm doing so well I didn't want to jinxs it...lol....

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