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Coming off opiates for good!
  1. #271
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    [deleted - swearing]
    Last edited by Anonymous; 03-26-2016 at 03:12 PM.

  2. #272
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Trust me. Coming here and reading and trying to help, helps me as much if not more than you. For me, it's a part of my commitment to stay clean and just do the next right thing. If I can inspire just one person or try to take away just a bit of the scariness, it makes my day. This Forum is important. Your story is important and so mine. All of our stories are. In my opinion, one of the reasons that makes this place work is if people come back even after they are clean and doing well. It lets others know that it's possible. It's a journey that never ends until we stop breathing. Always sometime new to learn and it's my pleasure to share my lessons.

    Happy Easter to you too, Shelly.

    Peace,

    Cat
    Last edited by Anonymous; 03-26-2016 at 03:12 PM.

  3. #273
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    Today is one of those days! I've dropped down to 2mls of oxy liquid and my body is fighting me tooth and nail. Very anxious and angry. But I'm hopping that a day with my family, enjoying their company will help. (even though I can't eat the darn dinner. lol) Still on "full liquids" basically, protein shakes, pudding, yogurt, blah,blah blah.
    I have 2 more days on this diet then I go to "blended" basically everything through a blender, no chunks.
    Last night I broke down and had about 3 bites of scrambled eggs, It went ok, but I don't want to rush things,
    Having lots of pain this morning too. Anyway no poor me post today!
    Just want to wish everyone a very Happy Easter. Enjoy your family, each and every one!
    Blessings to all for a wonderful day
    Shelly
    xxoo
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  4. #274
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Happy Easter Shelly,

    Yes. Having company and being engaged will help you through today. It occurred to me when reading your post that it's probably confusing trying to separate if your discomfort is from reducing the oxy and still dealing with ridding yourself of the remaining sub from what might be from your surgery. Especially if your doctor said that your pain from the surgery should be mostly behind you.

    You're doing great! Just compare where you're at compared to just a few months ago. I can still remember your struggles to get stable on the subs. What a nightmare, right? This has got to be better both physically and mentally. Hope you have a great day.

    Peace,

    Cat

  5. #275
    Gonnawin is offline Member
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    You're doing a GREAT job tapering like this after surgery! Congrats on staying away from the sub too. I truly hope in the end it is as painless as possible for you. I know it has to be hard.

  6. #276
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    Today is starting out a little better. Had a great day with family yesterday, and that really helped. I'm going for the gusto today. My hubby and my in laws taking me to the casino for some >>>>>>>>. That should be interesting!!
    Wish me luck all. If I hit it big Will take everyone to an island for vacation!!!
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  7. #277
    Ming23 is offline Platinum Member
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    Good morning Shelly
    Hang in there! Glad yesterday went well and hope u have fun at the casino!
    Rooting for ya!
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  8. #278
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Waaaaaaa!!!! I wanna go too!! It will be good to get out and away. The day will fly by and that is the best thing!! Boy, I sure hope you win big. I'm in need of any vacation, let alone going to the Islands. I'm heading downstairs right now to see if any of my shorts and bathing suits still fit. If not (and probably not) I'll head to the mall and get myself packed. Let me know when we're leaving. I'll be ready.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  9. #279
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockandhardplace View Post
    Today is one of those days! I've dropped down to 2mls of oxy liquid and my body is fighting me tooth and nail. Very anxious and angry. But I'm hopping that a day with my family, enjoying their company will help. (even though I can't eat the darn dinner. lol) Still on "full liquids" basically, protein shakes, pudding, yogurt, blah,blah blah.
    I have 2 more days on this diet then I go to "blended" basically everything through a blender, no chunks.
    Last night I broke down and had about 3 bites of scrambled eggs, It went ok, but I don't want to rush things,
    Having lots of pain this morning too. Anyway no poor me post today!
    Just want to wish everyone a very Happy Easter. Enjoy your family, each and every one!
    Blessings to all for a wonderful day
    Shelly
    xxoo


    Hiya Shelly ( I really like the name!),

    Wishing you the BEST of luck at the casino. Lke Cat, I'll be packing too for ANY trip anywhere! Just say the word and I'm in. Hope you hit a nice jackpot. Have a great time as you certainly deserve it!

    To answer the question you asked me earlier: YES, you still have quite a bit of sub still in your system that will have to dissipate. It's crazy just how long it can remain in a persons system, especially when previously taking the higher doses. It will just take some time for it to completely leave, but it will so positive thoughts about that.

    Combine the sub wd's, with the wd's from the oxy as you lower your dose, with the recovery period from the surgery and you'll definitely have some days that are just blah. Makes sense right? But as you begin to heal, and once the sub is down to minute levels, and you're done with the liquid oxy, you'll feel so much better.

    And better yet….YOU'LL BE 100% CLEAN AND FREE!!!

    Randy
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  10. #280
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    Sorry guys I busted at the casino, but had a good time. Very tired now, think I overdid it. Really starting to feel the w/d's, even thou I'm out and about it's starting to get rough. It will be 14 day''s off the sub's so I guess I really have got a wait for this to leave my system. That's kind of discouraging. Oh well. We'll have to see how strong I can be. My only problem is pain control. I've really had minimal pain, but throughout the day there is a need for some sore of pain med. Tylenol doesn't help at all (already tried) I guess it never did help and I always relied on my ibruprofen 800mg. But I can take any of that for 3 months. So, that is a huge weight on my mind right now. Even though the surgery pain is bearable, I'm still dealing wth back pain.
    Anyway getting in touch with the back doc and getting that scheduled asap.
    Hopefully, once I get my back pain issue resolved, I'm not going to need anything for pain. No more excuses!! and I can't wait.
    Gotta go rest, talk to you all soon....Really sorry about the island getaway
    Shelly
    xxoo
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  11. #281
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    >>>>! I just spent $4,234 at the mall. It was an expensive bathing suit. I had to find one that made me look like a Victoria's Secret Model. It took a very long time and it was very pricey.
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  12. #282
    Ming23 is offline Platinum Member
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    Shelly
    The house always wins, in the end! Lol. Glad you had fun! You deserve it!
    Some of us are destined to learn to live with some pain. It is what it is. Life is tough and we cope as best we can. I say this so you don't think you're alone in your times of discomfort. Here with ya Shelly!
    So proud of you, girl!!

  13. #283
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    Ming,
    Thank you so much for your support! You have been with me through thick and thin. You don't know how much that means to me.
    I'm getting there, but as you know first hand, it's a long hard road. But I'm giving it my all!
    Shelly
    xxoo
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  14. #284
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    How's it going today? Thinking of you and knowing you're doing the next right thing. It all starts there, my friend.

    Peace,

    Cat

  15. #285
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    Not going well at all.Starting to have real bad w/d's. Thinking it's the sub. NOt sure what to do. but I'm going to try jumping in the shower and just getting out.
    Wow this just really hit me out of the blue, not sure what to do????
    Shelly
    xxoo

  16. #286
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Shelly,

    Sorry! Grin and bear it? There just isn't an easy way to do this and we all know it. It doesn't make us feel much better in the moment though, does it? I suppose right now the best you can do is to try and stay busy and keep your mind occupied. Take heart in knowing each minute you can get through this, the closer you are to being at the end. If not now, it'll be waiting for you down the road. We got your back, Shelly. Post away. Whine if you need to. Whatever will pass a bit of time. Where are you? About 2 weeks out from your last sub dose? You're probably right that you're meeting up with the last of it leaving. Try and take heart from reading the threads of those jumping from insane amounts and the worst of it was over within 3 weeks. You have most of that behind you already.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  17. #287
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockandhardplace View Post
    Not going well at all.Starting to have real bad w/d's. Thinking it's the sub. NOt sure what to do. but I'm going to try jumping in the shower and just getting out.
    Wow this just really hit me out of the blue, not sure what to do????
    Shelly
    xxoo


    Hi Shelly,

    Got your post on my thread asking for some help. I'll be happy to provide any answers possible. I copied that post and will place it here to make things a bit easier….


    Hey Randy,
    How was your Easter? First holiday's without our loved ones are usually kind of difficult. It doesn't feel like you should be celebrating, but just having the whole family together is a great way to honor your brothers memory.
    I do have some questions for you. I'm feeling very weak. Fighting the w/d's from the subs and trying to heal and control my pain is becoming difficult. I just spoke with the PA from where I had my surgery and she's going to try and get me some Tylenol with codiene, because reg/x-tra strength doesn't cut it.
    So, that might take care of some of the residual pain, but I really don't think I'm going to be able to beat the sub w/d while I'm healing. My husband is very concerned about it and says that if I have to go back to the subs he thinks I should.
    I'd feel like such a failure if I caved. Do you know how much longer this will stick in my system? I know it's not an exact science, but it's been 15 days and I. was only on 6 mgs.
    You've had a lot of experience with this, I just didn't know if you could estimate. That might help me push through if I could have some time frame reference.
    I don't think you can, but just want to verify. Tylenol with codeine wouldn't mix with the subs right? It's still considered an opiate?
    Anything you could throw at me might help. I just am really struggling.
    Thanks Randy
    Shelly
    xxoo



    Sorry you're having a rough time Shelly. I know the feeling well. You want answers and to feel better immediately, and sometimes there just doesn't seem to be a clear cut way out. I'll give you some info and hopefully that will help you to understand what's going on as far as the sub is concerned anyway.

    You just recently had surgery and that alone surely has it's own issues as to how you're feeling. Your body hasn't fully healed and will take a little more time as you already know. Combine that with lowering the liquid oxy and you have double trouble. And you absolutely have sub remaining in your system and that too is causing some of the blah feeling. So you have 3 things you're dealing with and anyyone in your place would be feeling the same as you are without much doubt.

    You were taking 6mg doses of sub at the last when you stopped. But you just didn't have 6mg in your system Shelly, you had LOTS more than that built up due to the long half life. It's impossible to know exactly how much because of your metabolism rate, fluid intake, physical condition, and other similar factors. I'm betting you had more than 20mg still in your system when you stopped, and that's just a rough guess to be honest doing quick math.

    If you take one single dose of 4mg of sub and take no more it could take as long as 30 days for all of it to dissipate fully. Think about that. And If you take more on a daily basis it builds and builds faster than the half life can rid your system of it. It gets complicated. So what I'm saying is you have sub left, but you should be near the end of the sub build up that's in your system. Could take a few more days/week or so for all of it to be nearly gone. But you're still dealing with the oxy so it becomes a guessing game of which is affecting you more, the sub or the oxy? Make sense? You have around 15 days off the sub so the most of it has left. You're in good shape there.

    I do not believe going back on the sub is the right decision for you. That's MY opinion. If it were ME in your shoes I would NOT take any sub if getting completely clean is your ultimate goal. Leave the sub out of the equation. Worry about getting off the oxy slowly as you're doing a great job tapering it. Your body will heal itself from the surgery. While you're tapering the oxy it's providing some pain relief. But just how much is getting through due to the sub still blocking your receptors is questionable. Probably not much I'm betting. Getting Tylenol w/codeine will probably do nothing as it's very mild so I wouldn't even bother with that.

    I believe when your body heals more and you're done with the oxy you'll feel much better. A few days or a week will make a world of difference. If you can tough it out a while longer it would be awesome. This becomes so much of a mental battle Shelly. Do your best to fight through as the rewards are priceless!

    Randy
    Last edited by Anonymous; 03-29-2016 at 02:56 PM.
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  18. #288
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    Randy and Cat thanks for a the support! I don't know how you've put up with me for so long.
    I go on others threads and read their struggles, and I try to be positive for them, but the truth of the matter is I don't know if I'm that strong. I've always had this easy way out with the subs, and to me it's worst than any opiate I could take. It's just like an opiate, at first, you feel finally I've found a cure. Then it just sucks you in and pretends to be your new best friend. You find comfort knowing that your done using opiates and on to a new way of life.

    I know I want off everything, I know I want my WHOLE life back. I just never have had the power to break it. I know I have another surgery to deal with and I want to be sub free when I deal with that.

    I just don't know, one minute I feel hope less and the nest minute I feel like I want to scream till I can't scream anymore. I realize I have a lot on my plate right now and just trying to muddle through the emotions and the pain/healing and the w/d, it's like I'm not sure which is the worst, or at that moment what I'm dealing with.

    Thanks for letting me rant. Guess I'll call it today. Talk to you all soon.
    Special thanks again to Randy and Cat for sticking with me.

    Blessings,
    Shelly
    xxoo

  19. #289
    Anonymous Guest

    Default To sub or not to sub??

    Another day, teetering between to sub or not to sub. Such a beautiful morning, although I can't seem to enjoy it. I can't concentrate on much of anything. My husband said it best last night. "We are on the bridge, your on one side and me and your friends are on the other" The other side is where my life is. Hanging with friends, pursuing my music and my wonderful husband. Participating in life. I want that so bad. Who wouldn't??? Who wouldn't have that power to say, hey this is it, I want over the bridge.
    I don't know what kind of power that takes, and I'm not sure I'm that strong.
    How do I find the strength? That's the question.
    Do not find me bashing subs. That is not my intention. But be sure to know what your getting into with the subs. It's a wonderful reprieve from the opiate merry go round. But after that you still can't let your guard down. Research, research, because unfortunately our dr's are not as knowledgeable as they should be.
    Be well my friends and hopefully some of us can find the strength to cross that bridge and reach our life on the other side.
    Blessings to all
    Shelly
    xxoo

  20. #290
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    Okay it's only been 2 hrs and I'm already having to dose again on the oxy. I really don't know how long I can handle feeling this way! I can't function and I know this can't be good for the healing process. I'm having a hard time eating barely keeping up with 500 cal a day.
    Help someone!

  21. #291
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockandhardplace View Post
    Okay it's only been 2 hrs and I'm already having to dose again on the oxy. I really don't know how long I can handle feeling this way! I can't function and I know this can't be good for the healing process. I'm having a hard time eating barely keeping up with 500 cal a day.
    Help someone!


    Shelly,

    I realize how tough this is. Minutes can seem like hours and your brain has you thinking all kinds of scenarios. One minute this way seems right and the next thought has you considering some other way. Yeah, I get it. It's the hardest thing you'll ever do. I honestly believe you would benefit the most from some face to face support. That can be NA/AA meetings, Church, Therapy, or something else. I think having others in the same position as you are to hold you accountable would make a huge difference. Speaking in person to others in the know is so powerful.

    I know you're weighing the option of subs or no subs and that alone can drive you crazy. It did me too when I was first considering them. You have to make a decision and stick with that decision. In the end a little time will make all the difference. In the event you do choose the subs I'll help you all I can. But please think about it carefully.

    If you do decide to go to either NA or AA don't even mention subs to anyone for fear of judgement. If anyone asks what your drug of choice is simply say "anything I can get" as that's what I eventually did. It's scary going, but so worth it.

    I know this isn't much help. Wish I could provide a clear cut answer for you.

    Randy

  22. #292
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    Ok lets start over. I just got off the phone with my surgeon and he feels that trying to battle this sub thing, is just not the right time for me. He's concerned of the not eating and possible not taking in enough fluids. At this point, he feels like going back on the subs would be my best option.
    I still hesitate... I have probably 2 days left of oxy and I guess, I'll have to make a decision then. I won't have anything left and I'll see how I feel. It aint over yet, but just having him tell me what I kind of was thinking anyway elevated some stress. Feeling like a failure yet again, going back to the easy way out of the subs wont be taken lightly.
    Any thoughts, feelings, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. As always.
    Shelly

  23. #293
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    Randy..Hey thanks for post. I know you didn't answer any questions per say, but just you being here knowing whats going on, well it just makes it easier to post later.
    I really still can't make a decision. Like I said I guess I'm going to wait and see how I feel after the oxy is gone. It could be just me coming down from that and if I didn't have the rest of the subs in my system to deal with it would be a no brainer. But I know I do and I don't want to risk my recover from my surgery. Like my doc said that has to be #1 in my mind right now.
    I made an appt with my therapist, but I couldn't get in until April 6th. Kind of would defeat the purpose at that point. I don't know about meetings right now. U know me I'm just not ready emotionally. I'm so up and down crying all the time, I just can't do that in front of people I don't know. I'm not built that way yet. When I do get totally clean. I think it would be very useful to keep me on track. I just need stability pretty soon. Something. I don't know what I need.
    Shelly

  24. #294
    ItsPossible is offline Member
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    Hey Michelle,
    Hey girl, try not to stress too much about this or that. In fact I think you should stop and sit in silence for a few. Maybe a guided meditation to clear your mind.
    This isn't a race. You have your end goal in mind so baby steps will benefit you the most.
    It's not failure if you never give up!
    Whatever you decide its your choice so be okay with that. No judgement. We can be our own worst enemies. Love and light as always ! xxoo

  25. #295
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Shelly,

    Hold tight sweetie. Put an SOS up for Randy to see if he can guess how much longer you might have sub left in your system. I would hate to see you back on subs. Did you ask your surgeon if you could get just a little more oxy? I know! Me. Saying that. Just thinking you'd be in a better mental place not struggling with this decision and if you can keep your oxy under control, it'll be easier. You know? We know that these doctors poo poo the real effects of a small amount of sub. It's their answer! Oh no. I'm not giving you more opiates. Take the subs. They're better!

    I think you're all over the place emotionally because of struggling with what happens in two days????? If your surgeon won't do it (F him if he doesn't understand) maybe your primary? I've never taken subs. You know that. But if I had to decide to come off of 1mg of sub or 30mg of oxy, I'd do the oxy any day of the week. Just sayin...

    Peace,

    Cat

  26. #296
    lost89 is offline New Member
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    I just want to say thank you for all the posts! I have been reading them for the past 11 days. it has gotten to 11 days. when I have cravings I read all these comments and I feel better. I always felt so alone but it helps so much knowing addiction can happen to anyone and we can all over come it.I started my own thread. its a little long but its been years of silence for me. thank you again!

  27. #297
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    Well update overnight... I was struggling to the point, I was dehydrated because I was so nauseous I couldn't even drink and running to the bathroom with the runs. Just plain miserable. I didn't think I could be in such wd, so quick and I think I dodged a bullet, because I inducted after only 7hrs of my last oxy dose. BUT I do feel a heck of a lot better. In fact, I took my last oxy dose at 1:45 and like I said inducted after 7hrs. So, approx 9:30 I think it was. I then proceeded to stay up half the night and cleaned my house.

    Let me put this out there, what I did was crazy and in no way should be attempted!! You should wait the recommended time AND use the cows.

    I think my case was a little unusual, because I was reducing the oxy which in turn triggered my sub w/d. I tried all yesterday morning to get my w/d in check to feel any relief. As you can probably see in my many post, I didn't know what to do with myself. My surgeon did say that they would call me in a 5 day refill on the oxy. After he said that, I even tried boosting the oxy dose. My last dose was at 5ml, which is what I started with when I left the hospital, and at that point, that didn't even help.

    I'm not happy at all that I did it this way, but I did it, and I do feel better. I ended up taking a total of 1-1.4mg than another 1/2 Zubsolv, which is a lot less than before my surgery, so I guess that is something. Actually, I feel a little sick to my stomach still, so maybe I should of stayed on 1 pill of the Zubsolv, but my legs were on fire. (I'm guessing RLS, though I've never had it) I figure, I'll stable out for a bit and then start working my way down at a pace that is better than jumping. For me, the acute sub w/d I was feeling, isn't doable, and felt like jumping off a cliff. I think I need a slow steady taper, that has worked for many more than jumping.

    I reacted very irresponsibly with this induction and again let me repeat to those out there looking for induction protocol, do not follow anything I did.

    I should of 1st, crushed up my Zubsolv into smaller increments, waited the appropriate time from my last opiate dose, followed the Cows sheet and then only after I hit a solid 26 should I of proceeded with either .25mg or .50mg, dose and waiting at lease 1/2 hr. in between to take another dose.

    To all the sub experts out there please add to this post, if I left out anything. I wanted to let people know the right way to induct, but to also show that under certain circumstances, induction can be very individual. I really risked going into precipitated withdrawls and had I been able to think clearly, I would of planned this out way better. It turned out ok and I guess I just have to trust that the Good Lord was looking out for me!!

    Blessings
    Shelly
    xxoo

  28. #298
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    After I read my post I really regretted posting it. I just wanted to tell my story, but maybe it wasn't such a good idea.

    Sorry to all who work so hard to get people inducted on subs the correct way.

    Shelly

  29. #299
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Good Morning Shelly,

    Well you made a decision and it is what it is. What was your total dose yesterday? You're going to begin tapering, right? I hope you can be off the sub before your next surgery but don't stress. I'm still here for you. I feel badly this didn't work out the way we had all hoped. Onward and upward. I'll check in with you later. I have to fire up the school bus and make my second run.

    Peace,

    Cat

  30. #300
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    Think I should change my thread title to "getting off subs for good"

    Anyway, feeling really good, and finally leveled off. Had a great day yesterday, practiced with a new singer and got me all fired up about music again. My husband and I have played in a band together most of our 25 yr marriage. We became burnt out on playing in bars, being out till 3-4am, it became a job, and believe me when your barely making enough to pay for your gas to the gig, it's time to throw in the towel.

    Then along comes this sweet 17 yr old high school student.. Just listening to her sing has gave us a renewed purpose. She could sing without any music at all, and blow the socks off you, but adding background harmonies and melodies is spine tingling.

    Anyway, as far as being back on the subs, it is what it is, and I know that the time will come soon when I'm able to taper properly and get off them. My surgery pain is very manageable, even without taking my ibuprofen.

    My back pain is another story, but I just have to stick it out for a little while more. Just knowing that it won't be very long before I have my last surgery, and be able to push to the finish line gives me hope. My dreams of getting off the subs and being able to walk, run, participate in sports, and participate in life are within reach!!

    Nothing is going to stop my dreams from becoming a reality. And the reality is I am not only going to feel good physically, but I'm going to be really and truly happy. For so long, I've felt like I didn't' deserve to be happy. But this wonderful forum has really given me the tools to overcome so many hurdles. To quit feeling sorry for myself and dig deep to find the true me. Finding the caring, knowledgeable, and supportive people who make up this wonderful place, have literally saved my life. After all, your not really living if your can't be happy and love yourself.

    Blessings to all
    Shelly
    xxxooo
    Last edited by Anonymous; 04-01-2016 at 06:37 AM.
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