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Coming off opiates for good!
  1. #31
    Ming23 is offline Platinum Member
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    Dear Michelle: ok. Time to take stock. You need gastric sleeve surgery? Is it a must-have? Tell me what this is. You just had foot surgery.
    If u go on subs, you'll have to stop them for the surgery, right? Like last time. When's your gastric surgery scheduled?
    At some point, it may be a very good idea to resume sub taper. It's incredibly hard to detox otherwise. Like you said, feeling in wd all the time is taxing. It takes a lot out of us and makes us sad.
    So, what's your surgery schedule? Let's form a potential plan filled with hope.
    Your mindset is good--you want to be free of this poison. That's half the battle right there. Remember when you didn't think that way? You've changed. There is No Going Back once you know the truth!
    Let's organize now and make a good plan for your post-op recovery with subs (like Red).
    You may feel better knowing you have the road checked out beforehand.
    Rooting for you!
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  2. #32
    Ming23 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockandhardplace View Post
    What have I discovered about myself in the last wk? I'm still playing the hide and seek game with my husband. He hides the meds, and I find them EVERY TIME. I had taken a pill a few days ago, but I held it for like 3 days. I couldn't bring myself to actually take it. So, I thought I'll save it for when I really need it. (tapering down again on Friday down to 2 dilaudid's) I'm doing the whole freaking myself out about what's coming, not focusing on the here and now. So, what did I do with that pill I was holding?? I gave it back to my husband. He was so proud of me, when I thought he'd be mad. I should of know better, he is the best man a woman could ask for. I'm so very blessed!!!
    Another huge revelation...Cat was posting to someone else and she wrote of her struggles on how to get back to her old self, before addiction. How she had to forgive. At that moment I realized something... I used to be a person with so many friends around, and very full social life. In the last few yrs. I've been very bitter and angry with those friends who are no longer in my life. I thought "how could they leave me when I needed them most" Now, I realize it wasn't them, it was me. What kind of friend can you be to someone when your selfish, and with only one thing on their mind. It wasn't them who left our friendship, it was me that checked out!
    I am an overweight 45 yr. old woman who has found herself very alone and unhappy. I still have a lot of self-loathing I need to work out, I need to be happy with myself, to love myself and forgive myself. Move on and be the loving, caring, and happy person I used to be.
    Once that happens everything else falls into place. If your reading this Cat, your an amazing person. Thanks
    Blessings,
    Michelle xxoo
    Michelle: you got it! This is really a journey of self-discovery! There are Reasons we get on drugs. Working out those problems clears the path.
    You can always lose weight. You're still young. You have a wonderful hubby. We will all be reunited with our loved ones later, but here and now is the issue.
    Depressants depress us! Nothing wrong with you--the body and mind respond to what we give them. It's tough while we're going through it to remember that it's just the drugs talking.
    You're right about the Friends-thing too. Same thing happened to me.
    In the end, i was sitting alone because I just couldn't handle Anything anymore.
    But you know the way out. How to loosen the death-grip of narcotics.
    Do what you have to do surgery-wise, don't give another thought to discomfort transitioning over from pills to subs, and be determined.
    I promise you Michelle you will feel better once you can eliminate the addictive prescription drugs. So, when's the gastric sleeve surgery?
    I am thinking of you....you Can Really do this. I will be your taper-buddy, if you like...

  3. #33
    Anonymous Guest

    Default The plan

    First off I just want Ming to know how much I appreciate you responding to me. I am so lost, and you hit the nail on the head when you talked about making a plan.
    The Gastric Sleeve Surgery is when they take out part of your stomach. It's not just the surgery that complicates my situation. 2 wks. before the surgery you can only have a liquid diet. That in itself is going to be a head trip. I don't have an exact surgery date. The approximate date could be around the 1st part of February. I'm going to call on Monday to see if I could up it. If I don't follow through with this process, I have to start it all over again, 6-8 months of this right out the window. The question do I really need the surgery?.. No, but I can't get my back surgery until I lose some weight, and the back surgery is a must. I've got bone on bone pain and 3 nerves are pinched. Also, with the fall I suffered, they think I may have done more damaged to the area's that were already causing pain.
    So, all this being said, I can't see the transition to subs before the surgery. I think I need to continue weening of the opiates I'm on and have the gastric sleeve surgery. I'm going to try to contact them on Monday and see if I could push the date to the end of January. Then after the surgery get right on subs.
    I would welcome all suggestions or different plan options. I'm really up in the air about everything. I want to change my life. Not only the addiction part, but the weight loss and back surgery. It's just hard to keep on the path of reduction of opiates. I know I'm trying to take on a lot, but I'm scared if I don't try this and follow through, I'm going to kick myself.

    Michelle

  4. #34
    Anonymous Guest

    Default Digging deep

    After Christmas I need to get my thoughts in order. I have many changes I HAVE to make to take my life back. I have to quit smoking. That's going to be a biggy. I had it almost conquered, but then I fell off a ladder.... went back to smoking more than before. Next I have to get back on subs. Then I'm finishing up all my "must do's" before I have Gastric Sleeve Surgery. That's an absolute life change. I have 2 classes left, then 2 wks before surgery I have to do a liquid diet. So, I think about all this and my mind goes to mush. How in the heck am I going to have the mind set for all this? How much do I want to take control and put my life back in my hands????? Am I going to be strong enough?
    The answer to all those questions.... I'm not sure, but I am sure I have to try. I have to try!!!
    Any and all support is very welcomed.
    Michelle

  5. #35
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi Michelle..
    It is a lot..
    But you are strong..
    The 1st thing I would do is quit smoking..
    That will complicate any type of surgery and your recovery..
    Actually it can lengthen your time on life support after surgery..
    Finish your classes..
    You are staying in the recovery mode..
    You are not keeping secrets..
    Giving support..
    Asking for support..
    People in recovery need surgery..
    Don't worry about subs or opiates right now..
    It may sound strange but as long as your dose is as low as possible now you will
    Do ok with the pain control..
    Have your gastric surgery..
    Then your back surgery ..
    Or whichever way they suggest it be done.
    Of course you are questioning it you are scared..
    But 1 year from now if you have not done either you will feel so bad about yourself..
    That is just a place where addiction and abuse loves you to be..
    Take these tasks you have to do ..
    Make a plan that is doable..
    Even if you have doubts about yourself
    take them one by one..
    Just make sure someone else agrees that your plan is doable..
    We can also set ourselves up to fail..
    You do want your life to change
    Go back and read your thread..
    You have worked very hard..
    You have support..
    Do it now ..
    While you still can..
    No truer words have been said..
    If nothing changes....
    Nothing changes..
    Seems obvious
    But we forget that ..
    That is how the term insanity comes to mind for many of us..
    Doing the same thing over
    And
    Expecting different results..
    You have done a lot of work on here..
    Keep going..
    We will be here for you..
    Take care
    Bette
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  6. #36
    Anonymous Guest

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    Thanks Bette,
    I know I read your many post to me and to others. You have a nice way of simplifying things, and I know every word you say is so true. I don't think I can stay on these opiates much longer. My brain is short circuiting! I don't feel stable on any size dose. I take more than I'm supposed to and I feel like a cage animal, I take less than I'm supposed to and I feel like a cage animal on steroids. So, I guess my only options might be to get back on the subs and try to stabilize on a low dose. I'm so tired. I don't know how I'm going to fight the w/d's getting back on the subs. My mind is fighting every direction, and I feel like I'm whining all the time. I hate to even listen to myself anymore. I don't know how my husband is standing me. Thank you all for putting up with me. I just want normal again.
    Does anyone know where I would find the what dose subs would equal the dose of opiates I'm on? Is there such a place.
    Anyway thanks again Bette, I appreciate every line you wrote. Just need to get it through my thick skull.
    Many Blessings to everyone,
    Michelle
    xxoo

  7. #37
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Michelle,

    I just deleted my entire post. ##!! I can't even begin to remember what I was rambling about. (See Bette's post and save all of us the time. ).

    You do have a lot on your plate, don't yah? Don't let it overwhelm you because if you gave up on trying to reclaim your life, that would just be a shame. Take and finish this one step at a time. You've got a couple of surgeries ahead of you and each will put you in a better place. Take ownership and accomplish some small things. I know this may sound stupid, but during my active addiction one of the things I simply ignored was my mail. I'm not kidding when I say that I had huge trash bags hidden everywhere!! One of the first things I did was to tackle those bags and of course most of it could simply be thrown out but I still had to go through them to be sure I wasn't tossing out a legal document or something. It was such a silly thing to be proud of when I got through all of it. I've graduated since then and now I only keep those small plastic bags from the store and once I have more than one, I go through it. I have promised myself to never, ever have a trash bag full of mail again. Stupid, right? Sorry. It's the best I got right now but I think you understand what I'm trying to say. Get something done, anything. It's a step in the right direction.

    Peace, Michelle.

    Cat

  8. #38
    Anonymous Guest

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    Thanks Cat,
    I appreciate any support I can get right now. I know I have surgeries coming up but I don't think I can take this reduction of opiates anymore. I'm in a constant state of w/d. I'm really considering going back on the subs and when the surgeries come up just deal with the pain. Does it sound nuts? I can't think straight anymore. I just want to be stable. I'm tired. Anyone think this is a huge mistake?
    Michelle

  9. #39
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Michelle,

    I've never been on subs so my opinion is based entirely on what I've learned from others right here. If I were you, I'd stay away from the subs. The tapering just takes too long even in the best of circumstances and you're only about a month or 6 wks from your first surgery (?). I would talk to you doctor about how you can get your pain under control and remain out of withdrawal. It will probably mean taking a higher dose of opiates. BUT at least they are short acting and your doctor will be on board to help you either taper when it's time or you can consider beginning subs again once you're past the surgeries. That's just my opinion. Others may disagree. For me, I'd rather taper or quit the short acting stuff with my doctor watching my back.

    Peace,

    Cat

  10. #40
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Michelle..
    I don't even think you should look for some equation
    That was written by a pharmaceutical company
    To decide what dose is equal to your dose now..
    It just is crazy some of the crapppppp that is written especially about sub..
    If you are going to induce back onto it ..
    You know the drill and without even knowing what you are taking I think you could be comfortable
    On an 5 mg or less..
    If you are truly miserable than I would say go for it..
    Being in withdrawal 24 hrs or how ever long it takes to get to 26 on the Cows
    Is better than be being miserable all the time..
    I know what that feels like just tolerating the day..
    Waiting for the next day..
    It sux..
    But don't you have to go back on the short acting opiates before your surgery?
    That is a lot to put your body through..
    Back and girth ..
    Especially your brain..
    Maybe like Cat said do some s,all things that you can feel good about..
    I guarantee you when you get beck on the sub
    The same problems will be there..
    Especially if the problem is
    You and that thing
    Between your ears..
    I don't give a crapppppp what people say..
    This is a difficult time of year!
    It is depressing
    It is stressful!
    It is time consuming!
    And usually we are let down..
    So maybe try to hang tight through these holidays before you make
    These huge decisions..
    I am sure your husband is still there and tolerates you ..
    Because he loves you
    And wants you to get better!
    You are a good person ..
    I can tell..
    Give yourself a break!
    Stop over thinking all this..
    Just for today!
    You will be ok!
    I promise!
    Because you are determined..
    Enjoy your family and
    Have a

    Merry Christmas
    Bette
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  11. #41
    Anonymous Guest

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    Cat,
    Thanks again for replying so quick. I really appreciate you taking time out of your holiday for me. It means a lot. I did get a chance to talk to the dr. and I thought for sure that he would jump at the chance to put me back on subs. But, he surprised me and told me how well I was doing and that all my anxiety was getting the best of me. He did up my lorazapam, which isn't great either, but if it gets me over this hump, I'll take it. He also reminded me how far I've come. 6-4mg diladid down to 2.5-4mgs. It's just a long struggle, everyday, but I have to put my nose to the grind and get it done! Thanks again, and Merry Christmas.

  12. #42
    Pixiepoxie is offline Senior Member
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    rock,

    Wanted to wish you a Merry Christmas!

    Hope you are doing great, I'll catch up after the Holidays!

    Take care!

    Forward and Onward Troops!

  13. #43
    Anonymous Guest

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    Pixie,
    Wishing you to many blessings to your whole family, for a happy and healthy new year!

  14. #44
    Anonymous Guest

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    It was a wonderful Christmas with my husbands family. My sister-in law surprised me with a blanket with 5 pics of my little boy and 1 with his beautiful dog. She is a german shephard and we still have her with us, but we don't know how much longer. The vet says she has a neurological disease, kind of like ALS for humans. She has slowly begun to deteriorate, losing the use of one of her hind legs. It's so hard to watch her, because she still is so spunky and playful. The vet say she has maybe 6 mos. Once she loses the ability of both her hind legs, we will have to put her down. Not looking forward to that day. In my state of mind I don't know if I can handle it.
    Things are not going well with the taper. I haven't felt normal in months and I feel like I'm going crazy. I find myself stealing pills from my husband. He's so feed up with me, and running out of hiding spots. He feels like he has to keep them on him all the time. I know that I have to change, but I'm so tired of feeling w/d's. I feel like failure. I don't know where to go from here. Hoping I can figure a plan out before the new year. I hate this!!!

  15. #45
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Michelle..
    Honestly
    What advantage is there to be on 2.5 mg-4 mg of dilaudid?
    If you are taking more and still in wds?
    I am not judging you..
    Just so sad that you are suffering..
    What wds are you feeling?
    What pain are you treating?
    I don't think it is working..
    Especially if the old behaviors are back..
    When is your. Surgery?
    Of course your dr is gonna say you are doing good..
    He doesn't know the details..
    Even if you tell him about it..
    He doesn't have that experience unless he is in recovery himself..
    It is easy for them to just say these pacifying statements..
    They don't have to make any changes..
    Honestly sometimes they don't know what to do ..
    I am gonna check back and see what your answers are..
    Enough is enough..
    Something has to change..
    This is just to hard on you..
    For what?
    I will be back
    Bette

  16. #46
    Anonymous Guest

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    Bette,
    Honesty.. it's a hard thing to come to terms with sometimes. You always hit the nail on the head. I don't want to come of the dilaudid. There I said it.... I did try and I did pretty well until I hit 3-4mgs a day. Then I started to panic. The beast took over and that was it. I had it in my head I could do this and now I know I can't. I feel like such a failure. I let my husband down and most of all I let myself down. Now I feel like such a fraud. I try to post on everyone's thread to offer support and encouragement, and here I sit in the throws of active addiction. I have to get my head on straight. I think that I need to go back on subs and deal with the surgeries as they come.
    I don't have an actual date for my Sleeve surgery. As you probably know it's a process and you have to accomplish certain hurdles. I have to start my preparation, like doing a 3 day liquid diet as homework, see the shrink one more time and then the PA. After that they have to pre auth. through the insurance. I'm guessing sometime in February.
    I know it sounds crazy, but I need this surgery. Do you think I can induce on the subs, stabilize and still be able to have the surgery??
    My w/d's were mostly mental.. Not being able to think straight, no concentration what so ever. Just panic is the best way to explain it, but it was all the time and I know I can't go on like this. I know I have to dig deep, but I'm so weak right now. The holiday's always make me crazy, but can't blame it all on that. Where to go from here. I'm not sure yet.
    Thanks for your words of wisdom Bette. I have to make a change that's for sure!!
    Michelle

  17. #47
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Michelle,

    That's a huge step admitting that you don't want to not use your pain meds. Do you know how huge that is to acknowledge it and admit it?? It's the first step! You do have some work to do and I'm sorry. So that I don't have to go back to the beginning of your thread, I, like Bette am asking why you need them. I suppose it doesn't matter except your quality of life if it's because you have chronic pain. I know I live with some degree of pain everyday and it has been quite an adjustment figuring out how to deal with it without opiates. Please know it's not my intention to compare my pain to your pain or judge you in any manner. Geez. I used for years even when I didn't really need them. I'm no one to pass judgement on anyone. However, Bette is a nurse and she just might be able to help you with the medical issues. I'm more about the steps I took to screw my own head on straight.

    You're not a hypocrit. You have empathy and knowledge that you should share here. No one can possible understand this stuff except for an addict. In my humble opinion, if you are working on getting clean you are at some stage of recovery. Having said that, I'm heading under the bed to take cover from those who will disagree with me.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  18. #48
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Please don't be to hard on yourself..
    You can continue to support others
    Those steps might be the efforts that are keeping you from loosing it completely..
    Like Cat said admitting you don't want to come off the Meds is huge..
    I know you feel you have let your husband done..
    Honestly you probaly have..
    But only because he loves you
    And isn't an addict so does not really get it
    And he is hurting when he sees you struggling..
    I know you have to have the sleeve surgery..
    If you can tolerate this day to day insanity then just do what you are doing..
    Get the ball rolling ..
    I mean fast.
    Whatever they say
    Just do it..
    Then you will be able to go back on the subs afterword..
    There will not be anymore excuses..
    I don't think you should reinduce and then go back to short acting opiates before you have the the surgery .
    I agree with Cat again
    You are recovering
    You are sharing your wisdom with others
    You are being honest..
    Who cares how long it took..
    But you did it..
    But to be honest with you..
    I have a rotar cuff and tennis elbow on the same arm that I can barely lift..
    But it will not kill me..
    But the pills will..
    There is going come a time where you are going have to find alternatives..
    You might be pleasantly surprised at how your body can handle pain
    Once you are clean for 3-6 months..
    Right now your brain is in the
    I can't live with this pain mode..
    I get it..
    The opiates change the brain chemistry..
    They effect the part of the brain that has to do with survival..
    Your brain tells you you need them just like you need water and air..
    Just think of the positions dome women put themselves in to get a pill..
    Sacrificing everything ..
    That speaks to the power of a his disease..
    Imo opiates are at the top of the pyramid as far as addiction..
    They are just like herrrroooiinn..
    You have you hands full..
    You have made progress in your recovery because you have admitted so many things..
    Now is the time
    To take care of you..
    Get to work
    Take care of business
    The rest will take care of itself..
    Randy is a great example of that..
    Miracles like the hat will happen for you..
    But they do not come easy..
    If you have to go up on your pills to get the craapppp done that has to be done for the surgery..
    I would do that..
    Because it sounds like thT is a priority so get it done..
    Come home
    We will help you reinduce..
    I Don't think you should get back on the subs
    The back on the pills..
    Too much..
    When I feel your energy would be better used getting the surgery s heckled and fine..
    Then you will have to keep your word and get on the subs..
    We will be here..
    Either way!
    Bette
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  19. #49
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    Thanks Bette and Cat. You guys never cease to amaze me. You never stop giving of yourselves. Baring your heart and souls to reach out to someone in need. I don't want to make excuses for my behavior. It's like I'm losing all my will power and the need to fight. I started out so strong, and now look at me.
    Cat, just to give you the short version of what got me here. I was on subs for 5 yrs max dose (24mg) Then I fell off a ladder and broke my heel. The amount of opiates they had to put me on was staggering to say the least. I've been slowly weening of them (from 6 - 4mg dilaudid daily, down to 3 -4mg) But ever since I hit the 3 pills daily, I've been in a panic. My mind started going back to the days before subs, when I had to find the bag with my pills and raid it. Still not taking a huge amount daily, but hording them, and taking 1-2 extra a day. It's like a switch in my brain has flipped and I can't shut it down. I thought this whole broken heel episode was a good thing, like it was meant to happen to get me off subs, and after the sub w/d's, I thought I could easily come off the dilaudid.
    What I ended up with is, my foot never going to be right and in constant pain, along with the pain in my back (which I need surgery on also)
    I don't want to whine and piss and moan, poor me, but be able to find the strength to get this done with. I can't think clearly right now, my brain is mush, but I did want to thank you both for giving me things to think about. Things I got to change in me. No one else can do this for me.
    Michelle
    xxxooo
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  20. #50
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Michelle,

    We need to inspire you again. That's what it took for me to pull my head outta my backside (not implying your's is there...just saying...). I've been there exactly where you are. It's horrific. Hopeless and desperate and willing to accept that this was my lot in life. Until I stopped being willing to accept it. I found my inspiration right here. I had wonderful, WONDERFUL people who would hold my hand, read my endless posts and respond to me with encouragement. I got tips on what I could try to make me feel better. Some worked, others didn't. I was an experiment.

    I do now remember your back story. UGH! You just have so much going on and so much pending that it's hard to figure out ;where to start. I think I said it before, but I'll say it again. I really believe that it would be a mistake to get back on the subs right now with your surgeries right around the corner. Once you have those out of the way, you can tackle this giant and we'll be here to help you however you want to do it. In the meantime, keep what you're taking in check as best you can. Start filling that recovery tool belt NOW. That in itself will provide some inspiration. Knowledge is power. Dig deep and work on believing that at some point you can be clean AND happy. Once you believe that, you'll want it too. My guess is that you still find it astonishing that you could feel happy without pills. I know I found that astonishing. My motivation was to just regain control of my life. (Still working on gaining control of my life--just in a different manner.)

    So. Tell me what I can do to inspire you. Jumping jacks? No? Splits? Some dancing? Thank goodness none of that would help because I couldn't do them if you asked. I might try dancing. The other two, not so much.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  21. #51
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi Michelle. Been reading your thread and all the amazing posts from members that really and truly care about you. I have read many of the posts you've made on other member's threads, including my own, and see your compassion and eagerness as you do your best to help others in need. You were a great help to me and I'm not sure you even knew that. So I sincerely thank you for that. We are lucky to have you here!

    I guess in your case you have to do what you have to do. I believe when you're in legitimate and constant pain it makes it even more difficult to get off addictive substances. Extremely difficult. But I also know that narcotic pain meds can actually cause or magnify that pain too. Only when completely stopping all pain meds can you accurately establish just how much actual pain you're in. I was shocked at how well Tylenol and Motrin/Ibuprofin really worked!

    I know in my own case I NEVER in a million years believed I was going to be able to stop taking drugs. Never thought it would happen and I was doomed to a life ruled by addiction. I wanted to stop, but I just couldn't do it. Didn't know how to do it. I was able to get clean many, many times only to relapse over and over and over.

    Then a switch went on in my head. At that instant I knew I was finished taking drugs. I knew I was on the road to recovery. For me it took Suboxone and AA/NA meetings.

    Your time will come Michelle. Sooner or later you'll get sick and tired of being sick and tired. Might not be today or tomorrow, but I have no doubt it will happen for you.

    You just can't ever stop trying.

    Randy

  22. #52
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi Michelle..
    Stopping by to see how you are..
    It is so hard to be stuck..
    Stuck on the outside looking in.
    That is a lonely place to be..
    I read a post you wrote to someone about you have DVDs
    Hip hop abs and others..
    Do some from a chair..
    You have to start small..
    Cat once again said it like it is..
    Start by doing little things that you can feel good about..
    When I went into treatment for the last time 19 months ago..
    Someone told me
    With every behavior
    And every thought
    I Was either nurturing my
    Disease
    Or
    Nuturing
    My recovery..
    One part is always getting stronger..
    It literally took me doing the opposite of what I wanted to do..
    With everything..
    I wanted to sit and isolate
    So I got up and went to a meeting
    Or
    Church
    Or somewhere..
    I just did not want to make my disease grow..
    Even when it had nothing to do with taking pills..
    It is very cunning and powerful..
    And just takes over our
    Thinking
    Our self worth
    Our
    Motivation..
    Everything..
    It is so subtle this disease..


    You are a good person
    With so much to give.

    Nuture yourself.
    Do whT you have to do to get your surgery done
    So you can get back on the sub..
    Feel good about what you are doing..
    You are in recovery..
    What you are doing today
    Is a far cry from hoarding your pills.
    And not talking about it..

    When we have secrets
    We stay sick..

    Since you are taking about this.
    I hope you will just realize that you will be ok without the pills..
    It is a hard concept to grasp
    But like Randy said I too am amazed at how well Tylenol and Motrin work.
    I went for an acupuncture treatment today for my shoulder..
    It really does help,.
    I will check back tomorrow..
    Hang tough Michelle..
    We are not going anywhere..
    We will support whatever you decide..
    Bette

  23. #53
    Anonymous Guest

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    Cat, Randy and Bette,
    I can't express how much it means to have you guys helping me. All I've been doing is crying all morning. I'm in a very dark place right now. I'm ruining my life, and also my beautiful, wonderful husband's life. He's such a good person, who got stuck with this terrible addict. I can't even think straight anymore. I don't know how I'm going to get my head together to conquer this. I was so strong in the beginning. I did things the way I was supposed to (mostly), but I was able to get down to taking 3 pills instead of 6. But then it's like I hit a freight train, crashed and burn. I'm constantly in a panic, heart racing, mind racing. It's even hard for me to sit here and complete sentences. I know that I'm just putting off the inevitable. The w/d's are freaking me out. I know they probably won't be as bad as I think they'll be, but getting my brain to understand that is going to be difficult. I have to call the dr. today and we will see what he says, but I don't think I'll be able to continue taking the dilaudid. I really think my only option will be to get on the subs. I have some, but they are 8mg tablets and I know it's going to be hard to try and cut them.
    I have the surgeries that I have to face soon, plus I have to quit smoking, but I don't think I can wait that long or try to ween anymore. What do you guys think? I'm really in a bad place and just need to be stable and I'm not going to be able to be stable on the dilaudid.
    You all are my lifelines right now. I need guidance and support and I can't tell you how much that means.
    Blessings to you all.
    Michelle
    xxoo

  24. #54
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Michelle,

    You've hit the proverbial wall and I'm sorry. I know it feels hopeless. Been there. It is not hopeless. I think it's a good idea to talk to your doctor. Do you have a good enough relationship with him/her to be completely honest? I would start there. See what he/she has to say. BE HONEST. You just might be surprised how much help you can get there. What you decide to do is going to be entirely up to you and it sounds like you want off this train and back onto the sub train. I'd still talk about other alternatives with your doctor before making that decision with your pending surgeries. If I were you, I wouldn't want to delay those because of how important they are to both your physical and mental health. It must feel like the prize is right there and you can't quite reach it. I'm just guessing that all the worry about what to do and not wanting to delay the surgeries is cause of some if not much of you anxiety.

    We've got your back, Michelle. Make one decision even if it's not related to drugs of any kind and follow through. It's that first step of walking through this because there's no way around it.

    Peace,

    Cat
    Randy35 and Iluv2smile like this.

  25. #55
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey Michelle.

    You need a big HUG…..((((HUUUG))))

    I totally agree with what Cat had to say. Talking to your doctor and being HONEST is what I would also suggest you do. Most doctors are happy to help us IF we are as honest with them as we hope they are with us. Start there Michelle.

    The sub verses no sub question is a tough one right now. If you weren't expecting to have surgery in the near future I would say get on them right away. But with surgery looming I'm not 100% convinced it's the time to get on the subs? It's not a huge problem to have surgery while taking subs if you follow a strict protocol. The subs muct be stopped several days to a week beforehand and either wait in wd's until the surgery happens or switch to a short acting opiate before the procedure.

    I will just say that IF you do decide to get on the subs to make absolutely certain you're on the LOWEST possible dose that gets you stable. Taking huge amounts only compounds the problem of tapering, and especially presents trouble when surgery is happening. So follow the induction plan to the letter if subs is your choice.

    Wish you had a surgery date available. Sounds like it may be a couple months or so in into the new year? I know you're struggling with the Dilaudid and that's not helping matters either. I feel your pain dear girl.

    IF you do want on the subs, and again I say IF, I would be happy to induct you and make sure it's done right. I can't make the decision for you and wouldn't really want to. I know you have sub tablets and they can be made into whatever doses you need with a little work and effort on your part.

    Think it over carefully and just know we have your back as Cat said.

    Randy

  26. #56
    Anonymous Guest

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    Randy, Thank you so much. I am going to have to go on the subs. I consumed almost all the dilaudid pills I had for the month in about 2 wks. I lost it ! I have to get of this merry go round. I haven't talked to the doc yet, but I'm sure he's going to be on the same page.
    My husband is pulling his hair out so, we have to come up with a plan quick. I have the cows sheet printed out. I'm just not sure how to go about crushing the pills. they are white 8mg buprenorphine. My husbands fear is that once we crush them we don't really know how much is in each dose. Many people at his work are telling him that once you cut or crush them, they dont work at all
    As far as how long I'll have to go in withdrawls??? I am also taking 2 -30 mgs of morphine, so I know it will be at least more than 12 hrs. or will it have to be longer?? I'm so scared....soooooooo scared! please help Randy.

    Michelle

  27. #57
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockandhardplace View Post
    Randy, Thank you so much. I am going to have to go on the subs. I consumed almost all the dilaudid pills I had for the month in about 2 wks. I lost it ! I have to get of this merry go round. I haven't talked to the doc yet, but I'm sure he's going to be on the same page.
    My husband is pulling his hair out so, we have to come up with a plan quick. I have the cows sheet printed out. I'm just not sure how to go about crushing the pills. they are white 8mg buprenorphine. My husbands fear is that once we crush them we don't really know how much is in each dose. Many people at his work are telling him that once you cut or crush them, they dont work at all
    As far as how long I'll have to go in withdrawls??? I am also taking 2 -30 mgs of morphine, so I know it will be at least more than 12 hrs. or will it have to be longer?? I'm so scared....soooooooo scared! please help Randy.

    Michelle


    I just posted this on Ming's thread for you…..


    Get a single edge razor blade and cut the 8mg pill in half as close as you can eyeball it. If you're careful you can cut those in half again and you'll have 4 pieces of 2mg each.

    Get a small bowl and put one of the 2mg pieces in it. Using the back of a spoon or other object crush the piece into as fine a powder as you can get. Then pour the powder onto a piece pf paper. Separate the powder into 4 equal piles and you'll have 4 piles of .5mg each. Separating one of those in half will get you .25mg doses.

    Sounds difficult but it really isn't. You can also get a pill crusher from any pharmacy.

    Once you have the dose needed fold a business or small piece of paper down the middle. Put the powder/dose needed at the time on the card/paper and pour it under your tongue. All there is to it! I'm used this method myself when the sub pills was all I could get. The one thing about crushing the sub into a powder is that it dissolves much faster!

    Randy
    Ming23 likes this.

  28. #58
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockandhardplace View Post
    As far as how long I'll have to go in withdrawls??? I am also taking 2 -30 mgs of morphine, so I know it will be at least more than 12 hrs. or will it have to be longer?? I'm so scared....soooooooo scared! please help Randy.

    Michelle

    No one can accurately tell you how long you have to be in wd's before it's safe to induct. Some take 12 hrs, some 24, and yet some may take 36 hrs or longer especially if coming from methadone. And that WHY we always suggest using the Cows. It takes all the guessing out if it. It's the only way to go if you don't want to risk going into precipitated wd's.

    You want NO PART of PWD'S!!!

    You have to completely STOP taking all addictive substances and wait for wd's to hit. No taking any kind of "comfort" meds or supplements because that could delay your Cows score and make you suffer unnecessarily. The whole point is to be SICK enough to take the sub. Take NOTHING that will make you feel better.

    Do it right and it only needs to be done once!!! FACT!!!

    So if subs are the way you're going may as well get started now. I would HIGHLY recommend you flush all remaining opiates because it's just too tempting having them around.

    I have a meeting or 2 at work and will be back later I promise.

    Randy
    Ming23 likes this.

  29. #59
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    Randy, my husband's concern is that you don't know how much your getting. Everyone at his work is telling that the medicine isn't distributed evenly in the pill. Could I crush the whole pill then break it into the parts I need?

  30. #60
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockandhardplace View Post
    Randy, my husband's concern is that you don't know how much your getting. Everyone at his work is telling that the medicine isn't distributed evenly in the pill. Could I crush the whole pill then break it into the parts I need?
    Don't worry about getting the medicine you need. You can over-think this stuff and drive yourself nuts. And yes you can crush the entire 8mg pill and separate into the doses you need.

    Be back later.

    Randy
    Ming23 likes this.

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