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Day 14 of Subutex (Buprenorphine) detox. Help..
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    Greetingsfromhell is offline Junior Member
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    Default Day 14 of Subutex (Buprenorphine) detox. Help..

    Hi everyone. This is my first post. I've been on subs for 6 yrs @ 8mg/day. No desire to do opiates whatsoever. Just want to be normal again more then anything in this world. The problem I'm having is I didn't really taper down, I jumped off at 8 mg basically...Except the last 2 days (last Friday and Sat before I jumped) , I only took 2mg, but that's it. My last dose was 2mg at approx 8 am on Sat Jan 28th. No subs since. Withdrawal didn't even kick in for like 3-4 days(due to the super long half-life) and then it got me hard. I took some clonadine and valium the first week and vitamins and I've been trying to eat and get lots of fluids but I haven't slept almost the entire time. So bad. Not going to work either. How much longer guys? Any advice on what I can do to relieve some symptoms. I'm hurting so bad every night and the subs are right there but I REFUSE to take them. I'm so over this, I'm only 29 yrs old and I have a great career. But I'm also living on my own and need to get through this. Luckily I have a friend looking in on me every other day. I'm ready to get my life back and let go of anxiety, remorse, guilt, and regret. I'm also worried about getting addicted to valium. Been taking 5-20 mg for about 10 days now. Should I try to taper off that or stop completely? In what doses? Have 5mg pills. What about Kratom? Would it be worth introducing for this final week here so I can get over the 21 day hump? Will I feel better in a week? Or if I take Kratom will it just prolong the withdrawal effects?!

    Thanks so much you guys. I really appreciate any advice and positive vibes you guys have for me. Struggling bad right now mentally and physically.

    Regards,
    Greetings
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    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greetingsfromhell View Post
    Hi everyone. This is my first post. I've been on subs for 6 yrs @ 8mg/day. No desire to do opiates whatsoever. Just want to be normal again more then anything in this world. The problem I'm having is I didn't really taper down, I jumped off at 8 mg basically...Except the last 2 days (last Friday and Sat before I jumped) , I only took 2mg, but that's it. My last dose was 2mg at approx 8 am on Sat Jan 28th. No subs since. Withdrawal didn't even kick in for like 3-4 days(due to the super long half-life) and then it got me hard. I took some clonadine and valium the first week and vitamins and I've been trying to eat and get lots of fluids but I haven't slept almost the entire time. So bad. Not going to work either. How much longer guys? Any advice on what I can do to relieve some symptoms. I'm hurting so bad every night and the subs are right there but I REFUSE to take them. I'm so over this, I'm only 29 yrs old and I have a great career. But I'm also living on my own and need to get through this. Luckily I have a friend looking in on me every other day. I'm ready to get my life back and let go of anxiety, remorse, guilt, and regret. I'm also worried about getting addicted to valium. Been taking 5-20 mg for about 10 days now. Should I try to taper off that or stop completely? In what doses? Have 5mg pills. What about Kratom? Would it be worth introducing for this final week here so I can get over the 21 day hump? Will I feel better in a week? Or if I take Kratom will it just prolong the withdrawal effects?!

    Thanks so much you guys. I really appreciate any advice and positive vibes you guys have for me. Struggling bad right now mentally and physically.

    Regards,
    Greetings
    Welcome!

    You jumped from 8mg! WOW! Huge congrats for making it for two weeks. In a nutshell, I would recommend that you NOT introduce anything into your life except for vitamins, supplements, protein, and lots of good old fashioned water. It doesn't sound like the valium is helping. You've been taking it for 10 days. There may be others who disagree with me but if I were you, I would at the very least cut the amount you are taking down if not eliminate it all together before it becomes a problem because it will. If you do need to use it, take a dose at night if it'll help you sleep. If it doesn't, get rid of it. Kratom? NO! It is very addicting and the withdrawal symptoms mimic those of opiate withdrawal. Don't even consider it.

    I can only imagine how hard this is but if you're determined to stay off subs and be clean, then the best and only way to do it is to abstain from all addictive substances. The danger of replacing the sub with something else is high. That's what we addicts do. The addict switch has been flipped and we will abuse whatever is within our grasp.

    How much longer is a good question and I'm assuming you don't want me to sugar coat it. You've got another couple weeks I'm afraid. 8mg/day for 6 years is a lot of sub. Stay active here. Use your thread as a journal. Being clean is worth every minute of what you are experiencing and sometimes we have to walk through fire to get here. My best wishes.

    Peace,

    Cat

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    Greetingsfromhell is offline Junior Member
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    I did! It was really more like 8-10mg depending on the day. I did a shockingly fast taper down to 2mg. The thing is I'm a very mentally tough person. And for whatever reason..(granted I wasn't aware of this forum or the tapering threads and formulas on tapering sub, which btw I think are excellent, and super positive). tapering didn't work for me, as I had tried in the past multiple times. In fact, I even tried some similar techniques. But for whatever reason the side effects were always the same week after week etc..Finally I got sick of it. Saw my doc, told him I was done. Made my mind up and started doing research about rapid tapering, rapid detox, supplementation, CBD, Kratom...even natural remedies like http://www.findhomeremedy.com/home-r...te-withdrawal/

    But wow it hit me like a ton of bricks and I hope I can start to sleep again because that's one of my biggest concerns...It has to get better and I know it will. I trust and believe. Just worried about next week..Work etc. And of course I appreciate you being honest with me and many factors go into it as you said. Luckily I have a fast metabolism and I'm very tall and svelt so hopefully that helps!!

    No point in sugar coating it...I don't care how long it takes I'm doing this. The advice you gave me seems completely sound. I'm going to try and cut everything out (except maybe 0.1mg clonadine at night, before bed if absolutely necessary) no benzos. Last night I had terrible withdrawals and I caved and took 20mg Valium. Which is the most I've ever taken. But I still didn't sleep. So wtf is the point
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-28-2017 at 09:37 PM. Reason: Incomplete
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    Greetingsfromhell is offline Junior Member
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    *Oops...Guess I went over the character limit* Contined.....and then to run the risk of becoming addicted to that? F THAT. But it helped me get through the second week a little. But as you said now it's been approx 10 days so that's not doing me any good.

    I'm going to do what you said, lots of water, vitsmims, minerals, supplements, try to keep my calorie intake up... I'll try to sleep. Also I may try a pure CBD transdermal patch next week if I can get it in time. Ive read that has really helped some people! Thanks for advising me to stay away from the Kratom.

    Btw.. have you seen this?

    https://www.opiate-freedom-center.co...drawal-relief/

    Hopefully I'll bounce back sooner though... a month is a long time, girl!

    Just reading some of these stories has brought out many emotions as I have always been a very private person so no one knew about my dependece and it's really been something.

    Thank you for your kindness, and support.

    Would be interested to hear from anyone who has wisdom and experience.

    Greetings.
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    zebra1961 is offline Member
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    Default greetings

    I jumped at about the same amount and really did not taper just finished what i had that was very little!! I was on them 2-1/2 years and was on opiates 6-1/2 years before that. It took me 30 days to start sleeping 3-5 hrs a night, also the first 21 to 22 days i did not sleep i did not think anyone could survive this but i did. Dont fight the sleep its miserable and you will spin in bed 3000 times a night and it dont work ,you can try benzos but no more than a week or you will have a new addiction!! NO KRATOM PERIOD you will be spinning your wheels and only extending your wds. Follow thomas recipe, if you think your gonna crack hot soaks REALLY HELP I was waterlogged but it got me through it!!!the soaks are for physical wds symtoms,If its your mind exercise as hard as you can REALLY HELPS MENTALLY!!! I am very fit strong 55 year old so i think that helps because my metabolism is high.You are much younger so i think in a week or less the physical wds should be mostly gone, the mental takes longer my estimate for you is in 2-3 weeks these should have diminished a lot!! It will take longer to feel 100%, how long not sure but took me 3 months since your younger should be less. I have been clean since MID JUNE 2016, this is 1000% times better than being chained down by drugs!!! Last month dec i started to feel more normal energy levels for me . Dont let that scare you as everyone is different yours may return way sooner!! I am proof it can be done and i know exactly what you are feeling but you sound like me YOU ARE DONE WITH IT NO MATTER WHAT!! YOU have the right mind so dont give in it gets BETTER I PROMISE GOOD TIMES ON THE WAY!!!!!HANG TOUGH YOU WILL MAKE IT!!!!Also had my wife to support me this is invaluable,so get some one to support you and keep you from slipping up,also i would get rid of any you have there is times its terribly tempting,also cancel all refills and tell your prescribing DR. no more!! You can ask your DR for clonidine works wonders when you are suffering the most. i dont want to keep blabbering so signing off!! ask all the questions you want i am very willing to help if i can hope this helps some!!

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    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greetingsfromhell View Post
    *Oops...Guess I went over the character limit* Contined.....and then to run the risk of becoming addicted to that? F THAT. But it helped me get through the second week a little. But as you said now it's been approx 10 days so that's not doing me any good.

    I'm going to do what you said, lots of water, vitsmims, minerals, supplements, try to keep my calorie intake up... I'll try to sleep. Also I may try a pure CBD transdermal patch next week if I can get it in time. Ive read that has really helped some people! Thanks for advising me to stay away from the Kratom.

    Btw.. have you seen this?

    https://www.opiate-freedom-center.co...drawal-relief/

    Hopefully I'll bounce back sooner though... a month is a long time, girl!

    Just reading some of these stories has brought out many emotions as I have always been a very private person so no one knew about my dependece and it's really been something.

    Thank you for your kindness, and support.

    Would be interested to hear from anyone who has wisdom and experience.

    Greetings.
    I followed your link. Interesting. And expensive. It's just wise to stay away from the Kratom. Period. I have been around this Forum for a long time. I had never heard of Kratom prior to that but then new members began to appear desperate for help to get off Kratom. It took most a very slow taper to do it successfully. Boy am I glad I had never seen that ad when I was ready to detox and before I knew anything about it! I'd have been ordering boat loads of it and would have just traded one thing for another. Just not wise to give an addictive substance to an addict. As far as the other supplements, don't get sucked in. Read the Thomas Recipe that will list the vitamins and supplements that will help you. I'm absolutely certain they are the same things that site is selling but you can buy them at Walmart or the grocery store, get generic brands and most, if not all, of them are relatively inexpensive. I think I paid 5 bucks for a bottle of Melatonin (brand name) 30 count. The Recipe also suggests a benzo during the first 3-5 days only. They are an entirely different animal than opiates and you just don't want to mess with them. You're not too far in so stopping now will save you in the long run.

    Being unable to sleep is a killer and I can say that it was the primary cause of each of many relapses. It gets better but takes time. Don't fight it. Take what you can get when you can get it. During my first 5 days of cold turkey from oxy, nothing helped with sleep. Lots of hot baths, heating pads and pacing. After the worst of that passed, I took Melatonin at night with a cup of Sleepy Time Tea. To be perfectly honest, it didn't induce much sleep (if any) but it did relax me. It was a relief to be able to lay in bed and just be still. No sleep but a bit of contentment if that makes sense.

    I know that you are dealing with subs so many of the symptoms will take longer to subside but they will. As Zebra mentioned, most people begin to get some relief around 30 days. I can remember just wanting a full 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep. I'm 7 years clean and it turns out that I need 5 or 6 hours a night. I used for so long that I had forgotten that was all I ever needed. Keep posting. You're going to do great!

    Peace,

    Cat

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    Greetingsfromhell is offline Junior Member
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    Zebra, man. Thank you for sharing your story, you're not blabbing at all. I am so happy for you for where you're at. You made it. Straight up. You're the man. I'm going to do it too. I had the ultimate realization which was the cause and effect when I went came off, and it's so simple, yet so true. If you want to quit, you have to WANT to quit. Your post made me think of that last night, because that >>>> was key for me. I want this more then anything right now. More than cars, money, whatever, it doesn't matter...and I was doing my best to excel in life at a young age and that was the cost, because I was afraid of losing everything. Once I actually understood that concept though, a flip switched in my brain and I was done. Just so done. In fact, I regret not doing this much sooner because the reality is I've been disgusted by opiates for a LONG time. But you know what? I'm here now. And I'm sure we all share that. So I'm trying to let go of regret and anger, shame.. And I appreciate everything you talked about. Being real. That's what's up.

    Greetings
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    Greetingsfromhell is offline Junior Member
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    Isn't that something?? And there's YouTube videos and forums where people swear by it. Alhough my idea was to only use it for one week (this would have been the week actually, the start of day 14/15) I'm really glad I talked to you about it. I have heard that they use it in parts of Asia in treatment centers for the first 3-5 days of traditional opiate withdrawal, but what do I know?! (Not to mention subs are a different beast) Like you said, when you're hurting you are looking for answers and it even seems like it could be legit if used PROPERLY but I don't have that clear concise answer and therefore I am on your side. As far as the supplements they sell, I checked them out hard, resesrched all the ingredients, everything that's in them. It's like the Thomas recipe on steroids! But it has a lot of things that the original Thomas recipe DOESN'T have... So that's interesting...I do see some value in only having to take one premade vitamin/mineral supplement that's formulated specifically for opiate recovery versus having to take so many different supplements every day. It's a little hard for me to keep down for some reason. Plus they offer milk thistle for liver support which is actually really good to take while you are taking supplements.. but you can pick that up almost anywhere. I may try a 30 day supply and see if it helps me and let you know. It could be the "bourgeois" version of the Thomas Recipe
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    Greetingsfromhell is offline Junior Member
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    Hey guys sorry I don't think I replied properly, still getting the hang of the forum. I don't see your messages being quoted in my responses. But maybe that's just me not doing it right, lol. Cat, You'll see my reply to you above. Zebra, you too.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-29-2017 at 03:26 PM.
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    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greetingsfromhell View Post
    Hey guys sorry I don't think I replied properly, still getting the hang of the forum. I don't see your messages being quoted in my responses. But maybe that's just me not doing it right, lol. Cat, You'll see my reply to you above. Zebra, you too.
    I followed you. I'm crazy, not confused. I agree that the supplements are worth a shot and I hadn't really thought about it, but how much easier would it be to take a couple of capsules instead of a dinner plateful? At least where I live, the grocery store nor the pharmacy stocked a couple of the items so I had to go to GNC. So you're right. Just the convenience is worth something. The only drawback that I can think of is if any one ingredient doesn't agree with you there'd be no way to do a process of elimination. I was OK with the vitamins and herbal stuff but the L-tyrosine did NOT agree with me! It made me jittery and upset my stomach. But don't rely upon my reaction to it, I'm not sure I have heard anything but good things about it from others.

    Being an active addict creates havoc with our bodies. It's important to eat well, tipping the balance with more protein and using vitamins and supplements. So I've heard that a good recovery tool is to create new, healthy habits to replace the bad ones. Studies say that you have to repeat a behavior at least five times before it begins to become a habit (not talking drugs here). The gym and healthy eating helps to quicken the physical recovery aspect. That alone is a powerful incentive to just get healthy.

    Keep me posted on what you think about those supplements. I'm sure everyone reading will be interested in knowing.

    Peace,

    Cat

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    Greetingsfromhell is offline Junior Member
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    Exactly! And buying them individually can also be expensive. I went to the grocery store but then I had to go to GNC too and they didn't even have everything I needed, I was so mad. So, I'm going to give it a shot, and I'll report back. As far as the L-TYROSINE, I totally understand. I get decent results but I only take 1000mg in the morning because it gave me a bit of an upset stomach. And don't eat soup for lunch later after taking it, big mistake

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    Greetingsfromhell is offline Junior Member
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    Man, day 16, and I feel like poop! I haven't slept in 36 hours I guess I was really lucky the previous 2 nights I slept for 3 hrs each, I took clonadine and listened to binaural beats with headphones on and it tricked me into getting a few hours! but the third night? Not a chance. I guess the jig is up... Just when I thought I was onto something! But hey everyone is different right? Just can't wait to feel better. Still getting crazy amounts of wds... I don't think I'm going to take the clonadine anymore though... I'm on the new vitamins now plus the Thomas so we'll see.

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    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greetingsfromhell View Post
    Man, day 16, and I feel like poop! I haven't slept in 36 hours I guess I was really lucky the previous 2 nights I slept for 3 hrs each, I took clonadine and listened to binaural beats with headphones on and it tricked me into getting a few hours! but the third night? Not a chance. I guess the jig is up... Just when I thought I was onto something! But hey everyone is different right? Just can't wait to feel better. Still getting crazy amounts of wds... I don't think I'm going to take the clonadine anymore though... I'm on the new vitamins now plus the Thomas so we'll see.

    Hello! I'm Randy and have been reading your progress. Anyone that jumps from 8-10mg of sub sure has my attention!

    Keep in mind that this is a Process and not an Event. There are different stages to this that will take some time. When you feel a happy moment or feel the pressure has let up a bit hold on to that feeling as it tells you there will be light at the end of the tunnel. A little time makes all the difference in how you'll feel.

    Also keep in mind that you jumped from one WHOPPER of a dose (8-10mg) of subs. That's NEVER recommended, but it is what it is. It's going to take some time for the half life to dissipate. With a half life between 24 and 72 hours, and the amount of sub you have in your system it needs more time before you'll begin to trun the corner. Exactly how much time is anyone's guess? We're all different with different metabolisms. Fluid intake, physical condition, and other factors all make a difference.

    For someone that jumped from a very high dose of subs you're actually doing very well. The sleep, or lack of sleep is the number 1 complaint when detoxing. Well that and RLS are a close tie maybe. The sleep will come I promise. again, it will take some time.

    Keep doing what you're doing my friend. The clean life is the BEST life!

    Randy

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    Greetingsfromhell is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy35 View Post
    Hello! I'm Randy and have been reading your progress. Anyone that jumps from 8-10mg of sub sure has my attention!

    Keep in mind that this is a Process and not an Event. There are different stages to this that will take some time. When you feel a happy moment or feel the pressure has let up a bit hold on to that feeling as it tells you there will be light at the end of the tunnel. A little time makes all the difference in how you'll feel.

    Also keep in mind that you jumped from one WHOPPER of a dose (8-10mg) of subs. That's NEVER recommended, but it is what it is. It's going to take some time for the half life to dissipate. With a half life between 24 and 72 hours, and the amount of sub you have in your system it needs more time before you'll begin to trun the corner. Exactly how much time is anyone's guess? We're all different with different metabolisms. Fluid intake, physical condition, and other factors all make a difference.

    For someone that jumped from a very high dose of subs you're actually doing very well. The sleep, or lack of sleep is the number 1 complaint when detoxing. Well that and RLS are a close tie maybe. The sleep will come I promise. again, it will take some time.

    Keep doing what you're doing my friend. The clean life is the BEST life!

    Randy
    Randy first off, thank you! You know, before I got off I underestimated the importance of having this type of support, and thinking I could do it all on my own, even though I am basically. So lucky to have a friend coming over now though, checking on me, often.. Secondly, know that I am 2000% committed to doing this and nothing is going to stop me. I was in a bad spot. I had tried tapering before in the psst and I had crazy wds for like days on end just from that. Unfortunately tapering didn't work out for me, and I really struggled. But no matter what, when you're being prescribed 24 mg and taking 8-12 a day on average, it's a bad situation. And thankfully I was smart enough to realize that. But like you said everyone is different. Technically today is day 17 going into 18 but I subtracted a couple days lol, knowingly...As you mentioned. My WD didn't even start for like 2-3 days. But right now, the sleep is hurting me big-time. Because I can't go back to work. So I need to figure something out soon... Or no bueno. All I'm taking now that's prescription is 0.1mg clonadine in the late evening, and smoking a boatload of pot! I have a medical card and that's helped me so much. And the funny part is I don't even use that medicine that often in general. Just when I get severe anxiety or I can't sleep sometimes mostly..So that's been huge! But without any sleep now for 2 weeks basically I am starting to get scared. What do you think about trying Ambien, or Seroquel, or Gabapentin (PS I'm scared of all of them) OR possibly something much lighter, such as Lamictal? Could that be used to treat the sleep deprivation at least temporarily even to sleep for one night, you know? P.S. I tried 10mg Ambien one night a week ago. Did absolutely nothing. Is it the dosage? Or maybe I just need one of these what I consider to be pretty hard drugs that may knock u the F out for the night? I'm starting to see why this is the #1 complaint and it's a problem for me. Because Zebra jumped off on a similar dose said he didn't sleep for 21 days and I havent slept basically in 2 weeks.. very frustrating. My iron will and the regimen are carrying me right now. But for now...How long..is another story. As you implied, it's the ultimate unanswerable question. So I can't worry about that. I have to stay focused.and TRUST AND BELIEVE! That things are improving, that I am getting better, slowly but surely, day by day, hold onto positivite moments. I have a very fast metabolism though. I'm tall and skinny, with 2% bodyfat. But I'm out of shape! I haven't been to the gym in months. I think its the subs, because before I started got on them I used to love working out and I was doing great.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 02-01-2017 at 12:08 AM.
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    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greetingsfromhell View Post
    Randy first off, thank you! You know, before I got off I underestimated the importance of having this type of support, and thinking I could do it all on my own, even though I am basically. So lucky to have a friend coming over now though, checking on me, often.. Secondly, know that I am 2000% committed to doing this and nothing is going to stop me. I was in a bad spot. I had tried tapering before in the psst and I had crazy wds for like days on end just from that. Unfortunately tapering didn't work out for me, and I really struggled. But no matter what, when you're being prescribed 24 mg and taking 8-12 a day on average, it's a bad situation. And thankfully I was smart enough to realize that. But like you said everyone is different. Technically today is day 17 going into 18 but I subtracted a couple days lol, knowingly...As you mentioned. My WD didn't even start for like 2-3 days. But right now, the sleep is hurting me big-time. Because I can't go back to work. So I need to figure something out soon... Or no bueno. All I'm taking now that's prescription is 0.1mg clonadine in the late evening, and smoking a boatload of pot! I have a medical card and that's helped me so much. And the funny part is I don't even use that medicine that often in general. Just when I get severe anxiety or I can't sleep sometimes mostly..So that's been huge! But without any sleep now for 2 weeks basically I am starting to get scared. What do you think about trying Ambien, or Seroquel, or Gabapentin (PS I'm scared of all of them) OR possibly something much lighter, such as Lamictal? Could that be used to treat the sleep deprivation at least temporarily even to sleep for one night, you know? P.S. I tried 10mg Ambien one night a week ago. Did absolutely nothing. Is it the dosage? Or maybe I just need one of these what I consider to be pretty hard drugs that may knock u the F out for the night? I'm starting to see why this is the #1 complaint and it's a problem for me. Because Zebra jumped off on a similar dose said he didn't sleep for 21 days and I havent slept basically in 2 weeks.. very frustrating. My iron will and the regimen are carrying me right now. But for now...How long..is another story. As you implied, it's the ultimate unanswerable question. So I can't worry about that. I have to stay focused.and TRUST AND BELIEVE! That things are improving, that I am getting better, slowly but surely, day by day, hold onto positivite moments. I have a very fast metabolism though. I'm tall and skinny, with 2% bodyfat. But I'm out of shape! I haven't been to the gym in months. I think its the subs, because before I started got on them I used to love working out and I was doing great.


    For sleep issues I prefer OTC meds and supplements. Things like Sleepy Time Tea (made real strong) and Melatonin are my first choices. There are several others too. Prescription sleep aides scare the life out of me. Most of them can be very addictive and tolerance can rise quickly just as being on opiates can. If a prescription sleep aide must be taken I highly recommend it only be for a few days.

    Randy
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    zebra1961 is offline Member
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    I did get 5ea. seroquel from doc dont remember what mg think it was 25 after the 21 days and i should of told you i slept 1hr here or 2 and it sure wasnt daily during the 3 weeks. The seroquel would put me to sleep not 8hrs but 3-5 hrs, and i did not get addicted so i only took them if i had something to get done the next day [ i was off work the first 3 months by my choice could have went back after i month and i am a lot older than you so you probably could go back sooner ] After i started getting some sleep every night after the 21 days i felt better and it helped mentally a lot!! the first night i got 8hrs sleep i jumped out of bed and stated dancing a jig i was so happy i never thought it would happen again but it did and it will return to normal and will be fine,and i am so happy you are gonna kick the >>>> out of it like i did, no more i cant say how happy i am for you!!!! Keep it up greetings us jumping at that high of a dose is very rough, you will be coming out of the worst of it within 5 days and should be tons better in 2weeks . It takes longer at the dose we stopped at but do not get down [ I NOW THAT IS ONLY WORDS AND TOUGHER TO DO BUT I CAN TELL YOU ARE GONNA DO IT ] and your coming to the end just wanna give you a little nudge so its easier to get there i know exactly what its like.Congrats its gonna be your turn to wake up and dance!!!! soon!!
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    Greetingsfromhell is offline Junior Member
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    Post Zebra

    Quote Originally Posted by zebra1961 View Post
    I did get 5ea. seroquel from doc dont remember what mg think it was 25 after the 21 days and i should of told you i slept 1hr here or 2 and it sure wasnt daily during the 3 weeks. The seroquel would put me to sleep not 8hrs but 3-5 hrs, and i did not get addicted so i only took them if i had something to get done the next day [ i was off work the first 3 months by my choice could have went back after i month and i am a lot older than you so you probably could go back sooner ] After i started getting some sleep every night after the 21 days i felt better and it helped mentally a lot!! the first night i got 8hrs sleep i jumped out of bed and stated dancing a jig i was so happy i never thought it would happen again but it did and it will return to normal and will be fine,and i am so happy you are gonna kick the >>>> out of it like i did, no more i cant say how happy i am for you!!!! Keep it up greetings us jumping at that high of a dose is very rough, you will be coming out of the worst of it within 5 days and should be tons better in 2weeks . It takes longer at the dose we stopped at but do not get down [ I NOW THAT IS ONLY WORDS AND TOUGHER TO DO BUT I CAN TELL YOU ARE GONNA DO IT ] and your coming to the end just wanna give you a little nudge so its easier to get there i know exactly what its like.Congrats its gonna be your turn to wake up and dance!!!! soon!!
    I'm glad you mentioned that! That's good to know, just in case. I think I'm in the worst of it now, as you said, with no sleep, the third week may be the hardest of all. Just know that I read your post every day. YOU ARE LIVING PROOF IT CAN BE DONE...
    I had a bit of a setback today unfortunately, I made a mistake, tried to force myself to sleep by taking 50mg unisom and I took 2mg xanax and took 0.1 clonadine. Did nothing for me. Wow. Actually all it did was make me feel worse honestly because it made me even more tired and I got couch locked for 4-6 hours where my body was so tired but my mind was not shutting down at all. It was torture basically (the only thing that helped a little was the clonadine) I couldn't even function today and I took my vitamins late, so I skipped L Tyrosine today because it makes me jittery even at 1,000mg a day. How important is the L Tyrosine and how much should I be forcing myself to take a higher dose? Is that a key ingredient in rebuilding the sleep process? Or more for getting energy, helping wds in the morning. I know it does help you rebuild dopamine. Still looking for answers to questions I don't even know. I'm in uncharted territory here. Meantime, I'm taking specifically recovery supplements too now but this >>>> takes time, either way I am FORGING FORWARD and with you and everyone else taking the time to give support, IT MEANS A LOT! I just can't wait to dance that jig instead of watching the sun come up every morning LOL. This >>>> is no joke.


    Greetings
    Last edited by Anonymous; 02-02-2017 at 01:06 AM.

  18. #18
    zebra1961 is offline Member
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    I tried OTC sleep aids its like taking a M&M does NOTHING, only thing that helped me was Seroquel. the L tryrosine is kinda like coffee gives you a boost in the morning if your dragging your self around from no sleep.I would try 500 mgs if 1000 mgs make you jittery or you may need none. I would stay on vitamins for a couple months or till you feel much better. This >>>> is no joke it was a lot tougher for me to quit than the short acting opiates hydros oxys, when i ct them i was sleeping good and felt good in a week,this >>>> stays in your system much longer that is why i think it drags out so long! The only big difference i noticed when quitting both was when quitting the subs after a few days i had no cravings, when quitting the hydros oxys i had cravings 2-3 months after quitting. I wish i had better news on sleeping but i dont you should be getting to the point where you will start getting some sleep, if you feel tired at any time try to sleep, some times your body will will let you sneak in some sleep in the morning, mid day, even afternoon and any helps!!Dont fight your sleep it only adds to the misery index roll with it, your are getting to the point where things will start subsiding and you will have more good days than bad and that goes away TOO!! Praying for you STAY STRONG YOU GOT THIS.GOD will pull you right out of there he did me!!
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  19. #19
    DravenDomnq is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Greetings, I've been following your thread, but have no experience with subs so haven't posted to you yet. I saw your post this morning about the L-Tyrosine though, so thought I'd share my experience with that. For me, I think it's made a huge difference, both in my energy levels and with the mental aspects as well. I know some people have problems with it, so I think you need to be really careful with it, especially in finding the dose that works best for you.

    I had never used it before I made the jump, and when I first started taking it took 2,000mg. I saw on the Thomas Recipe Thread on here that you could take up to 4,000mg, but since I had never used it before decided to do half that dose. I never got the jittery feelings etc. so over the course of a couple days bumped up the dose to 4,000mg. I also drink a lot of coffee/coffee drinks (my next addiction to try to tackle) so maybe I'm just used to some of the effects it can cause. In addition, I'm on Clonidine, as well as some other bp and thyroid meds, so that could possibly change how it affects me as well.

    Like I said, I think you need to be really careful with it though. One friend on here thought it was affecting her thyroid, and others have mentioned it causing problems for them as well. It does seem to be making a pretty big difference for me though, and I continue taking it every morning to this day. Just wanted to share my experience with you about it, and if it is something you decide to use, think you just need to find the dose that works for you.

    Also, for sleep, I've found that Melatonin or Dream Water really helps me. Once again, others have had problems with them, or they haven't helped them at all, but do seem to help me quite a bit. As with everything, I think you need to be very careful in using them and finding what dose works best for you. I've been on about every prescribed sleeping med over the years, and have taken more Unisom etc. in the past to try to sleep than I should, but the Melatonin or Dream Water have helped me more than anything else. Just my experience, and I know they don't work for everybody, but might be worth a try.

    Congrats on making the jump, and know I wish you nothing but the very best! I look forward to continuing to follow your story, and hope you have a GREAT day today!!
    Last edited by Anonymous; 02-02-2017 at 09:25 AM.
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  20. #20
    Greetingsfromhell is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by zebra1961 View Post
    I tried OTC sleep aids its like taking a M&M does NOTHING, only thing that helped me was Seroquel. the L tryrosine is kinda like coffee gives you a boost in the morning if your dragging your self around from no sleep.I would try 500 mgs if 1000 mgs make you jittery or you may need none. I would stay on vitamins for a couple months or till you feel much better. This >>>> is no joke it was a lot tougher for me to quit than the short acting opiates hydros oxys, when i ct them i was sleeping good and felt good in a week,this >>>> stays in your system much longer that is why i think it drags out so long! The only big difference i noticed when quitting both was when quitting the subs after a few days i had no cravings, when quitting the hydros oxys i had cravings 2-3 months after quitting. I wish i had better news on sleeping but i dont you should be getting to the point where you will start getting some sleep, if you feel tired at any time try to sleep, some times your body will will let you sneak in some sleep in the morning, mid day, even afternoon and any helps!!Dont fight your sleep it only adds to the misery index roll with it, your are getting to the point where things will start subsiding and you will have more good days than bad and that goes away TOO!! Praying for you STAY STRONG YOU GOT THIS.GOD will pull you right out of there he did me!!
    Totally man, even ambien did absolutely nothing to me. Zebra. did you try anything else besides the Seroquel? Are you glad you took the Seroquel? Did you notice any side effects? How long did you take it for? Sry for all the questions, man. I'm just scared and I've never taken anything like that. I'm just not sure how long I can keep this up, I'm going now on 2 hrs sleep in almost a week. The insomnia is brutal. Glad to hear about you not having cravings after you stopped the subs though. That's definitely a PLUS. Also meant to ask you...which week was the hardest out of the 30 days? Because I actually had a good day yesterday (aside from no sleep) and then one of the most brutal nights I ever had. Like WTF? Literally shaking/freezing/sweating/RLS all night long SO BAD. I'm wondering if it's because I took valerian root and passion flower last night for the first time (guess I won't be doing that again), or if its the supplements I'm taking...or is this just part of the process. Also got some calm support that I ordered online, but I have no experience with that supplement. >>>> bro this >>>> is getting nasty and I'm getting scared. Nights are the worst, days I can manage. If I can manage to sleep even 3.5 hrs a night I'll dance a jig right now !

    P.S. I took 500mg L-Tyrosine yesterday, but after last night, and after everything I got from you and Draven (Thanks for sharing Draven!! ) I've decided to cut that out completely now in the hopes that may help. I tried melatonin, sleepy time tea, etc it's like Zebra said, M&M's


    Greetings
    Last edited by Anonymous; 02-03-2017 at 01:50 PM.
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  21. #21
    zebra1961 is offline Member
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    I took over the counter sleep aids but my Dr.give me the seroquel,I think he gave me 15 of them started taking them 3 weeks after i quit the subs.I would take for 2-3 days then skip a day just so i could get some sleep but not get hooked on them!! I took them for about 2 weeks then sparingly after that i still have a couple left. No side effects for me, it did put me to sleep though!! You do need some sleep, you can start the teas otc sleep aids after a month and they should help,I dont use any now, Make sure you take enough whatever you dr reccomends, cause sometimes i took half the amount and it did not work!!! the first 7 days were the worst and about another week before i started getting comfortable. I asked my dr for meds when i could not sleep, he gave me anti nausea,sleep aid and clonidine they all helped and only used Imodium once.Ask all the questions you want, I want you to get off this >>>> I am so happy your asking because i know you are gonna quit!!! I hope this helps. try and get some sleep and I would not hesitate to ask your dr.,for some help.KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK IT WILL GET BETTER SOON!!!

  22. #22
    Greetingsfromhell is offline Junior Member
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    Thumbs up Things Are Looking Up!

    Quote Originally Posted by zebra1961 View Post
    I took over the counter sleep aids but my Dr.give me the seroquel,I think he gave me 15 of them started taking them 3 weeks after i quit the subs.I would take for 2-3 days then skip a day just so i could get some sleep but not get hooked on them!! I took them for about 2 weeks then sparingly after that i still have a couple left. No side effects for me, it did put me to sleep though!! You do need some sleep, you can start the teas otc sleep aids after a month and they should help,I dont use any now, Make sure you take enough whatever you dr reccomends, cause sometimes i took half the amount and it did not work!!! the first 7 days were the worst and about another week before i started getting comfortable. I asked my dr for meds when i could not sleep, he gave me anti nausea,sleep aid and clonidine they all helped and only used Imodium once.Ask all the questions you want, I want you to get off this >>>> I am so happy your asking because i know you are gonna quit!!! I hope this helps. try and get some sleep and I would not hesitate to ask your dr.,for some help.KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK IT WILL GET BETTER SOON!!!
    Wow...I can't believe it's the evening of day 24 (-3 for half life so say day "21") and I wanted to let some days go by before posting again because I needed to 'eat up some clock here!' Well, I have big news! Guess who is getting some sleep! YUP Every day I just keep reminding myself of two really important things that you, Randy, and Cat all made clear to me at first. 1) This is a process not an event, and 2) IT WILL GET BETTER SOON. well guess what, your boy is getting better and although I am still experiencing physical wd symptoms, I feel slightly improved! I think the tide may be turning, and soon. My appetite has come back, I can stretch and do limited workouts on a daily basis now. I even left the house a few times! (including to go see the doc yesterday and he gave me a note and a followup for 2 weeks, so I'm not as stressed about missing work, now that I have that, I'm just focused on getting better).

    So how did it unfold? Well, Zebra you and I talked at the end of last week (I think it was Thursday), I was hurting bad, desperate for sleep, had many questions, and you provided the answers I needed. Thursday night, no sleep. zero. Friday night, no sleep. Saturday came and I knew I was at the tipping point. If I didn't sleep I was >>>>ed. So here's what I did. Saturday night , I took clonadine, calm support, plus 3 doses of 10 mg valium each, 1 hour apart before bed, and then smoked a real heavy mmj indica flower right before bed that is great for pain and insomnia. It worked, I slept for 6 hours. The next night I did the same thing, but I only took 10mg of valium. Slept for 6 hours again. on Monday I got a script for Seroquel from my doc (figured it couldn't hurt to have it JUST IN CASE) but I didn't take any. Monday night - I took only clonadine, calm support, and mmj, No valium. slept for 4 hours, woke up in the middle of the night. Was able to take a 2 hour nap later that day. Tuesday, same thing, 4 hours. woke up in the middle of the night but then was able to go back to sleep for another 2 hours after waking up in the middle of the night. So as you can imagine, I'm EXTREMELY relieved that I have started getting SOMEsleep again, even limited hours. Yes, the physical wd are still very uncomfortable of course, but this has helped me so much mentally (even though I've got a lot of catching up to do). I think it's the combination of clonadine, calm support, and the right mmj.that really helped me so much. Doc said it won't hurt to try the seroquel but if I'm getting some sleep without it then maybe its best to forget it? Wondering if I take it if I'll sleep 8 hours straight or something like that. but I think I'm going to wait first and see how the rest of this week goes. I could be turning the corner soon!

    Zebra one question I had was, how long did you take clonadine for? I was taking it 2-3 times per day at 0.1mg. but I'm running low so now I only have enough left for twice a day max, so I'm just doing my best to manage that. Hopefully I can get a refill even though it hasn't been 30 days yet (I definitely used a lot more in the first week than I do now). Anyways, I was excited to share this news with you guys and I also wanted to say thank you! I know it's not over yet, but hopefully my body will adjust soon!!! Because I'm practicing my jig! Just want to be ready, ya know?!

    All the best,
    Greetings
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  23. #23
    zebra1961 is offline Member
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    Great you are getting some sleep nothing better for a hurting body and MIND!!!! Glad you are on you way now, sled should be going down the hill now!!! the clonidine I was on for 3-4 months and I still take .03 mgs a day because i have high blood pressure but i increased to 5-6 mgs for the first 3-4 months when i quit the subs I am so happy another one kicked this >>>>s ass!!!! You are smart not to use the seroquel it is very addictive!! Only maybe once in a while if nothing else works.Keep up the good work again i cant say enough how HAPPY i am your are off the SUBS!!!!!! Keep us posted and if we can help with anything let us know.
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  24. #24
    Greetingsfromhell is offline Junior Member
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    Post Zebra

    Quote Originally Posted by zebra1961 View Post
    Great you are getting some sleep nothing better for a hurting body and MIND!!!! Glad you are on you way now, sled should be going down the hill now!!! the clonidine I was on for 3-4 months and I still take .03 mgs a day because i have high blood pressure but i increased to 5-6 mgs for the first 3-4 months when i quit the subs I am so happy another one kicked this >>>>s ass!!!! You are smart not to use the seroquel it is very addictive!! Only maybe once in a while if nothing else works.Keep up the good work again i cant say enough how HAPPY i am your are off the SUBS!!!!!! Keep us posted and if we can help with anything let us know.

    Thanks man, sleep deprivation isn't fun! Ah gotcha, that makes sense..yeah I had to come off the clonidine because it was making me too weak. Since my bp is normal, it really messes with me. Granted that was ok when I was in the thick of it. Took it for 4 weeks, weened down a bit, then came off it completely a couple days ago. Couldn't take it anymore, so I stopped. The withdrawal came back at me pretty hard when i did that. Couple days later, it's cooled down a bit, but I'm still getting chills, shaking, goosebumps, sweating, anxiety, and some RLS, also I still can't stop sneezing! If I'm still having these symptoms then I guess I'm still in the acute withdrawal phase? I'm at the 30+ day now so hopefully this physical stuff calms down soon because it's really bothering me. How does it work, do you just wake up one day and you don't feel the physical symptoms anymore?


    Greetings

  25. #25
    NeedFreedom is offline New Member
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    Would like to get an update on OP's condition. How you doing man? Did you stick with it?

    Would also like to get Randy35's attention to ask a couple questions. I am just starting this battle.

  26. #26
    Greetingsfromhell is offline Junior Member
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    Post Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedFreedom View Post
    Would like to get an update on OP's condition. How you doing man? Did you stick with it?

    Would also like to get Randy35's attention to ask a couple questions. I am just starting this battle.
    Hey Freedom! Glad you made it here. Sticking with it 100%-> I have to see this through! All things considered, I'm doing ok, it's been about 6 weeks...Still experiencing sweating and chills (which are the last 2 symptoms to go, I believe. The sweating sucks ). My mood is very good. Mentally I feel vlgood. My energy is coming back. Just need to shake off the sweating and chills somehow. Hopefully it goes away soon. I came off a high dose. Clonidine at least reduces the sweating and chills for me by about 90% for 4-6 hrs though luckily. usually what I'll do is workout in the morning and then wait until the afternoon or evening to take it so I can catch a break/sleep. Also Trazodone is fantastic at bedtime. My doctor even takes it himself occasionally to help him sleep. I fall asleep fast, wake up feeling good. but it's not a hard drug at all, it's an antidepressant, but these days it's mostly used as a sleep aid. Another supplement I would highly recommend is DLPA or DPA (I'm taking DPA because I'm sensitive to L-TYROSINE) mentally I felt phenomenal after 2 weeks of taking it. Basically it boosts dopamine production and helps block the enzymes that breakdown endorphins. It helps a lot mentally and can cut down withdrawal time. All the other supplements I tried did not do a damn thing for me. Exercise is huge. I'm working out almost every day, getting stronger and gaining muscle too, and eating a ton. It's so wonderful not being constipated all the time! Lol. But I have no pain, no more RLS really..as soon as I can get these shake these last 2 symptoms, I'll finally be done. It could be a couple more weeks but I'm much more comfortable now, and I know I can do it. It's so exciting thinking about all the things I can do one this is over. I can go anywhere, do anything. No more handcuffs.. once this is over I'm going to plan a trip somewhere nice and take it. I'm going to focus on being good to myself and taking care of myself. Eating right, sleeping right and working out! How about you? How are you doing? What dose are you taking? Ready to quit???

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    NeedFreedom is offline New Member
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    Ahh man.... it was such a pleasure to read that. It was like taking a vacation from my own life for a minute, and living vicariously through you. Keep pushing through and I'll see you on the other side.

    This is my 5th day of only taking approximately 4 mgs. I want to stabilize on 2 mg's quickly. I may stay on 2 mg's until I get a few days under my belt of no withdrawals. Then I will begin my 25% taper method per 4 days. The depression and "vacant-headedness" were an issue today, only subsiding after I got home and watched my dog run up to me, needing my attention. (Don't you wish you were a German Shephard sometimes?)

    Thanks for replying man. Lifted my spirits.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 03-14-2017 at 06:24 PM.

  28. #28
    Joned1985 is offline New Member
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    Greetingsfromhell, your success story is one of many that are helping me feel less helpless. I was on 6mgs for 2 1/2 years then I got in trouble with the law and I have to quit. Not taper but I have to just quit. There's reasons but I'd rather not go into them. So Monday I took 2 mgs and today, 4 days later, I'm just miserable. My job requires me to be on my feet for 8-9 hours a day and I just can't see how I'm going to do it. I can't lose my job, but I can't get relief through anything but time. Sorry for complaining,just wanted to say your story is helping me and I thank you.

  29. #29
    Greetingsfromhell is offline Junior Member
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    Post Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedFreedom View Post
    Ahh man.... it was such a pleasure to read that. It was like taking a vacation from my own life for a minute, and living vicariously through you. Keep pushing through and I'll see you on the other side.

    This is my 5th day of only taking approximately 4 mgs. I want to stabilize on 2 mg's quickly. I may stay on 2 mg's until I get a few days under my belt of no withdrawals. Then I will begin my 25% taper method per 4 days. The depression and "vacant-headedness" were an issue today, only subsiding after I got home and watched my dog run up to me, needing my attention. (Don't you wish you were a German Shephard sometimes?)

    Thanks for replying man. Lifted my spirits.
    Haha thanks man, you too! Keep it up!! Glad you're tapering down. if I can come off 10mg/day then you can definitely do this!! Start DLPA (DL-Phenyaline)1,000-2,000 mg 2-3x per day at least 2 weeks before you jump!!! You could also start it right away to help you during tapering. I HIGHLY recommend it. It helped me tremendously with my mood and energy levels within 2 weeks. I wish I knew about it from the start of my wd period.. Very surprised more people aren't using it/don't know about it. It's a combination of two non protein amino acids, one to help block the enzymes that break down enkephalins and one to help produce more dopamine (L-Phenyaline gets converted into L-Tyrosine by the body, so if you're taking that, no need to take L-Tyrosine seperately) I really can't say enough about it. I've learned so much about withdrawal. When this is all over, I plan to start a seperate thread about all the things that worked for me >> the ones that didn't in the hopes that it may help other people like us. Not everything works for everyone but having the information and the support is absolutely key. Now I wish I had a dog!! I can just picture him running up to you and putting a smile on your face! KEEP SMILING and keep laughing. Make a list of all the things you want to do when you're through this! Then do them! There will be nothing to stop you from going to see all the beautiful places you want and doing all the fantastic things that bring you joy and happiness.

    Greetings

  30. #30
    Greetingsfromhell is offline Junior Member
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    Default Joned

    Quote Originally Posted by Joned1985 View Post
    Greetingsfromhell, your success story is one of many that are helping me feel less helpless. I was on 6mgs for 2 1/2 years then I got in trouble with the law and I have to quit. Not taper but I have to just quit. There's reasons but I'd rather not go into them. So Monday I took 2 mgs and today, 4 days later, I'm just miserable. My job requires me to be on my feet for 8-9 hours a day and I just can't see how I'm going to do it. I can't lose my job, but I can't get relief through anything but time. Sorry for complaining,just wanted to say your story is helping me and I thank you.
    Joned,, That's a tough situation, I completely understand though... You have your reasons...and you need time to heal. I would look into your work benefits. Can you go out on medical leave/FMLA? If so, you cannot be fired from your job for 3 months. Does your work have a group temporary disability insurance policy that could pay you while you're out? I mean, this is a serious condition and coming off a high dose is no joke, and being on your feet all day at work...I don't see it either. I thought I could do it too , but once it kicked in there was no way I could have pulled that off. You need time to rest and recover especially in the beginning! I'm glad reading it helped. Let me know how you're doing and I'm crossing my fingers that you can get some time off and feel better soon!

    Greetings

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