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Finally Started Subutex but need help quickly...
  1. #1
    wandme is offline Junior Member
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    Default Finally Started Subutex but need help quickly...

    I have tried on many occasions to start Subutex to help kick my 400mg day oxycodone habit. This is what happened... I took my last dose of oxycodone (75 mg) at 3:00 am on Sunday (16th), waited 26 hours and took 2 mg of Subutex at 5:00am on Monday. It helped immediately, but still didn't feel right. I waited about 45 minutes before taking 2 mg more and kept going at that pace until I was up to 10mg. Still felt feverish... hot and cold flashes, stomach upset, etc... but definitely better than before I started it. I went to sleep off and on all day and woke up at 5pm... felt pretty worthless. It was a chore getting up out of bed to get something to eat. I took 2mg more of subutex at that time. I never felt 100%. I still felt sweaty and sick to my stomach, hot and cold, lazy, runny nose, and agitated. Definitely still withdrawal symptoms, but I had already taken so much more than I thought I would need. I was up to 12mg in 12 hours. I held out until around 11:00 pm and I just couldn't handle it anymore.... I took a dose of oxycodone. I feel a little better. No more withdrawal symptoms.... definitely not one bit high. But I don't want to go backwards.... I want off the oxycodone so bad and now I know I can do it.... I'm not so afraid of the subutex (what has stopped me from taking it the past 2 years is my fear of precipitated withdrawals). I just don't want to feel like I did today again. So my questions are these:
    1. What did I do wrong? Isn't 12mg enough? Why didn't I feel great like everyone else reports? Did I spread it out too far?
    2. Do I need to wait for withdrawal again to take more subutex? I understand the reason I do not feel the oxycodone is because my receptors are being filled by subutex. Shouldn't that mean that they will stay filled by subutex long after the oxycodone has worn off?
    Please, any help is greatly appreciated. I feel like such a failure and just want to get back on track. Thanks in advance for your help.

  2. #2
    Ricky71 is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by wandme View Post
    I have tried on many occasions to start Subutex to help kick my 400mg day oxycodone habit. This is what happened... I took my last dose of oxycodone (75 mg) at 3:00 am on Sunday (16th), waited 26 hours and took 2 mg of Subutex at 5:00am on Monday. It helped immediately, but still didn't feel right. I waited about 45 minutes before taking 2 mg more and kept going at that pace until I was up to 10mg. Still felt feverish... hot and cold flashes, stomach upset, etc... but definitely better than before I started it. I went to sleep off and on all day and woke up at 5pm... felt pretty worthless. It was a chore getting up out of bed to get something to eat. I took 2mg more of subutex at that time. I never felt 100%. I still felt sweaty and sick to my stomach, hot and cold, lazy, runny nose, and agitated. Definitely still withdrawal symptoms, but I had already taken so much more than I thought I would need. I was up to 12mg in 12 hours. I held out until around 11:00 pm and I just couldn't handle it anymore.... I took a dose of oxycodone. I feel a little better. No more withdrawal symptoms.... definitely not one bit high. But I don't want to go backwards.... I want off the oxycodone so bad and now I know I can do it.... I'm not so afraid of the subutex (what has stopped me from taking it the past 2 years is my fear of precipitated withdrawals). I just don't want to feel like I did today again. So my questions are these:
    1. What did I do wrong? Isn't 12mg enough? Why didn't I feel great like everyone else reports? Did I spread it out too far?
    2. Do I need to wait for withdrawal again to take more subutex? I understand the reason I do not feel the oxycodone is because my receptors are being filled by subutex. Shouldn't that mean that they will stay filled by subutex long after the oxycodone has worn off?
    Please, any help is greatly appreciated. I feel like such a failure and just want to get back on track. Thanks in advance for your help.
    You said you waited 26 hours since your last oxy dose to start the sub induction? You should of used the COWS worksheet to score a 26 or higher, this is the most accurate way to determine if you are ready to start the sub induction process, not time!

    Are you following Robert's sub therapy/taper plan? You should of started with an initial .5mg or 1mg dose, waited 2 hours then did .25mg doses every 90 minutes thereafter until you were stable. You definitely took way too much sub! Stop taking anymore sub for now and definitely do not take anymore oxy!

    Please read through your older threads, there is a lot of excellent information in those threads that will be of great help to you now! Here are the links -
    https://www.drugs.com/forum/pain-kil...per-69125.html

    https://www.drugs.com/forum/prescrip...-me-69127.html

    Here's a link to Robert's plan again - https://www.drugs.com/forum/suboxone...apy-66109.html

    You have a lot of sub in your system right now that will hold you over for a while. I'm off to work but I'll check back with you later today sometime? In the meantime read up on your old threads and study Robert's plan, hopefully others will be by your thread soon as well to give you some advice and/or support? Hang in there for now, we'll help you get through this. Take care... God bless us all!

  3. #3
    wandme is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you so much for responding! So don't take any more sub or oxy? When would it be safe to take more subutex? Do I have to go into full withdrawal again since I took the oxycodone on top of the sub? Or since I took the subutex first will I be okay to just continue with that? That's the most confusing thing to me. I wish I hadn't taken the oxycodone, but I was just feeling so terrible... I didn't want to take more subutex since it wasn't helping. I didn't know what to do so I just tried the oxycodone to get some relief. It did work, but I'm scared of what comes next. Thanks again for your help.

  4. #4
    dsh12345 is offline Senior Member
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    Once you mix the two... it becomes very difficult to figure out what's going on.


    Taking subs first before oxycodone is manageable.. Because the subs are already sitting on the receptors and quenching them and not giving up their spot so all that's happening is that oxy floats around, maybe sits on a receptor for a second or two before the subs rip it back off, and what happens is the oxy just floats around and doesn't do much. If you take oxycodone first then subs, that is bad... the subs will rip all the oxycodone off the receptors that were sitting there very happy to be filled by the oxy, and then suddenly and you will feel WD.


    I suspect what's happened is that you may have had still too mucyh oxycodone in your system (400/day is alot) so when you started taking subs, it worked a bit and you were able to sleep, but since there was still oxy in your system the subs were ripping them off your receptors and still contributing to withdrawal symptoms.


    It seems like there are so many different ways an induction can go down with all the stories I have read. 400/day is a big habit, there could also be the possibility that subs filling 100% of your receptors and firing them at half power will never quench your brain's desire for opiates as it is used to 80-90% of receptors filled with full opiate (oxycodone) firing them all off at 100%, so no matter what it'll take a coupel days to get your brain to lower its opiate requirements... much like the same process the brain undergoes when you do a CT withdrawal... it can't handle it for 3-4 days or so, but adjusts itself quickly to make you comfortable in a span of just a couple days.

    So, 80% of your receptors firing at 100% power on oxy is alot more than 100% of receptors firing at 50% power on subs.


    Hard to say what to do. 12mg is way past the ceiling effect of subs, so this is not a problem of not enough sub. There's a couple ways you can do this. You can try to reset everything.... take ntohing for 3-4 days (the subs will prob hold you) to get your brain as substance free as possible.. and re-do the induction taking bits at a time. The good part about that is that if you wait 3-4 days there definitely won't be oxycodone interfering, and your brain will have 3-4 days to adjust to life without oxy so likely at that point subs alone will be able to hold you. Doing it that way has the advantage of getting anothoer chance to find your true lowest induction dose needed to feel comfortable.The down part is waiting 3-4 days might be rocky, but again you have 12mg subs in you to help hold you.

    The other option.... which will require luck... is to just pick a dose of sub.. like 6mg would be decent for a habit of your size. And just take that every day for the netx couple days and ride it out and hope it works out. As each day passes, the oxy will wash out of your sytstem and be further and further into the distant past, and the subs will remain and take over. Your brain will get used to only getting its opiate hunger from the subs instead of the oxy over those days as well, and the brain will adjust itself so that you will feel more comfortable.


    I dunno, that's my 2 cents. Any vets out there that want to chime in please do.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 04-18-2017 at 12:10 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by wandme View Post
    I have tried on many occasions to start Subutex to help kick my 400mg day oxycodone habit. This is what happened... I took my last dose of oxycodone (75 mg) at 3:00 am on Sunday (16th), waited 26 hours and took 2 mg of Subutex at 5:00am on Monday. It helped immediately, but still didn't feel right. I waited about 45 minutes before taking 2 mg more and kept going at that pace until I was up to 10mg. Still felt feverish... hot and cold flashes, stomach upset, etc... but definitely better than before I started it. I went to sleep off and on all day and woke up at 5pm... felt pretty worthless. It was a chore getting up out of bed to get something to eat. I took 2mg more of subutex at that time. I never felt 100%. I still felt sweaty and sick to my stomach, hot and cold, lazy, runny nose, and agitated. Definitely still withdrawal symptoms, but I had already taken so much more than I thought I would need. I was up to 12mg in 12 hours. I held out until around 11:00 pm and I just couldn't handle it anymore.... I took a dose of oxycodone. I feel a little better. No more withdrawal symptoms.... definitely not one bit high. But I don't want to go backwards.... I want off the oxycodone so bad and now I know I can do it.... I'm not so afraid of the subutex (what has stopped me from taking it the past 2 years is my fear of precipitated withdrawals). I just don't want to feel like I did today again. So my questions are these:
    1. What did I do wrong? Isn't 12mg enough? Why didn't I feel great like everyone else reports? Did I spread it out too far?
    2. Do I need to wait for withdrawal again to take more subutex? I understand the reason I do not feel the oxycodone is because my receptors are being filled by subutex. Shouldn't that mean that they will stay filled by subutex long after the oxycodone has worn off?
    Please, any help is greatly appreciated. I feel like such a failure and just want to get back on track. Thanks in advance for your help.
    Hey wand! Sorry to hear about what you are going through. It will all pass in time. You are not a failure, you WILL get back on track. You can do this! I suggest taking a look at my thread as I was a heavy vicodin user almost 100-150 pills a day and was in the same exact position as you....literally a week ago today, I inducted and have ZERO regrets. Been feeling normal, stable and high on life.

    From everything you have mentioned it sounds like you sent yourself into precipitated withdrawls, same as what i did to myself, except, i took vics first then subs. Then my party began...lol it was hell but I made it through with lots of self control, setting myself and my mind straight and the support here; that was a detrimental factor to my recovery. It has REALLY helped me having the support. Remember, subs are just a tool....you must have a plan of action and a protocol ready!

    You definitely took WAY too much sub. I took 4mg my first day and that was considered alot. I think dsh's advice is good. A habit that high, start at 6mg maybe? I bit the bullet and took the jabs but started at 4mg in an effort to NOT have that much subs in me. But we are all wired differently. I chose to go against induction advice (on accident, not because I didn't hear anyone out. I already took the sub then posted on my thread) and start at 2mg in am and 2mg in pm, and mind you I popped 16 10/325 vics an hour before taking 2mg subs. NOT FUN. DO NOT do that to yourself, take the beating and move on if you can. Ricky and DSH gave you really good advice. Read that, read my thread, read dsh's thread and definitely read older threads like Bettes. This will be very helpful and informative to assist you on your journey to clean. Good luck, keep posting, it will be really helpful. More people will be along to chime in and help. We are here for you. God Bless

  6. #6
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi there.
    Most people think they are safe because of using subutex instead
    Of suboxone.

    It is the buprenophine that puts you in pwds not the naltrexone.
    Bup knocks everything off the receptors at one time..

    You have to wait it out!
    Time is the only fix for pwds.
    Taking more sub is almost never the answer.

    Hard for us to get because
    More is better we think with opiates.
    sub is the opposite.

    I would wait until tomorrow at least to take any more sub..
    Probaly longer but I know it is really hard to do..

    Time is not a good indicator of readiness to induce.

    I doubt if it was the oxy that made you feel better.

    It is not strong enough to knock the bup off the receptors..

    Sub at a high dose
    Can have the exact opposite effects on a person..

    Hang in there.

    This is definitely doable!

    You can do this!

    We all have !

    I don't know one person that is sorry they got off pills !
    It is amazing!

    You just have to stop deciding what's in your best interest
    And follow the plan..

    Our best thinking got us right here..,
    Relax
    Look at the taper Roberts taper ..
    you will be ok..

    Bette

  7. #7
    Ricky71 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hopefully you haven't took anymore sub or oxy? Update when you can?

  8. #8
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    How are you doing?
    Bette

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