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Help! Need to get off vicodin and induct subs quickly, I want off!!
  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROSES8 View Post
    Any help for someone who just started to quit pain pills today?
    Rose, I responded to you earlier. Please give us some history on your situation. Remember to be HONEST with yourself and us. Not doing so will only harm you. The more information you provide, the better we can support you on your journey to clean. We do not judge here, we have all done our fair share of damage to ourselves and people around us. The more information you provide, the more details you give, the better The support will be. God bless and I look forward to your response.

  2. #62
    dsh12345 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopingtobeclean View Post
    Hey Rose! Welcome to the forum! Glad to see you here and ready to be clean. In order to offer you support and help; please start your own thread or your welcome to give us some history here. I dont Mind that you're on my thread, but burried posts here will not be seen by senior members who can also offer alot of support and help to get you through this tough time and your journey to clean! Look forward to your response...God bless!
    She made her own thread. She's a bit anxious it seems.. posting every 10minutes begging for help with very short generic comments like "get me off please!!!!"..... I posted in her thread already, as also one of the veterans did too... and she basically ignored ricky's post saying she needed to "talk to a real person not a website", but she hasn't responded to my post yet where I laid out her options of either CT now, taper and then CT, or go on subs. Hopefully, she read that, and got some knowledge out of it. Hope she also calms down too. Can't even get a simple answer out of her like how long she's been using and how much despite multiple ppl asking her.

    Rose, if you are out there, CALM DOWN!. People are here to help. Speak clearly, clean sentences, ok!

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsh12345 View Post
    So, I will be completely honest. The first 2 weeks were no picnic. The physical symptoms disappeared instantly, but I had mental fatigue/severely poor mood, lethargy, lack of motivation, unable to get off the couch so tired. Getting out of the house for the first time like 2-3 days later to buy a pack of bottled water cuz I had to was a big victory for me. It seemed almost like subs teleported me to day 7 of CT.... during that period no acute WD symptoms, but it takes weeks to get your energy and mood back... Those first 2 weeks on subs.. the mental aspect... was horrible the fatigue/depression/lack of motivation. I would watch the clock all day just hoping and waiting for the day to be over so I could go to sleep so I could just cross that day off the list and move onto the next day hoping I would wake up feeling different and a little better. I remember one day.. it was so bad it was 9PM and I'm just like "Ok good enough, day is over, I'll just go to sleep." Don't think I've slept that early in a decade. Anyways, I woke up at 5am the next day after a full night of sleep, still dark outside, still as depressed/fatigued/tired as yesterday wondering to myself "holy >>>> its 5am I have a full day ahead of me, there's 1.5feet of snow outside, how the heck am I gonna fill all the time?"

    But anyways, like I said no physicla symptoms at least....I played around with my sub dose at the start for a little bit... think I took too much because I gave myself insomnia really bad... but that quickly resolved after 1-2 days when I dropped my dose quickly from 6 to 4 after just 2 days. I decided since I had at least no physical symptoms, and that too much sub gave me a problem, will just continue head with the taper and hope I feel better mentally later on.

    Somewhere around 2 weeks after being on subs, something changed and I turned a real corner mentally. Good energy, good motivation, woke up feeling excited about the day instead of dreading the day. That happened around the 1.5 to 2mg mark... where most ppl coincidentally say they felt the best during their taper and that less is more.

    Those good days have continued every since, now I am at 0.5mg for the first day.
    Hey DSH! As you know by now my friend, honesty is the best policy...considering we've already done our damage to ourselves and society. I am totally aware we are not all the same, so 2 weeks for you being no picnic; makes sense...we're all wired differently. Symptoms will disappear quickly after correct subs dosage as we know....again, my 1g-1.5g habit should've warranted a minimum 6mg induction but as you know, I bit the bullet and started at 4mg. I am sorry to hear about the fatigue, mood, lack of motivation and the rest that comes with this >>>> considering you said going to sleep @ 9pm was victory to calling the day an end! I know how it feels brother. You're not alone....snow outdoors doesn't help either...matter of fact it's abit discouraging cause you are limited to activities, but DO NOT let that weigh you down. There's still plenty of things to do, be it mentally or physically, you just have to find it or want to do it!!

    I agree with you...while watching your thread, I saw how the changes began coming and happening as you lowered your dosage. That's amazing my friend. Stick to the plan and you'll only have to do this once as our old friends here say. Very happy to hear you have gone from 6mg down to 0.5mg in just 32 days, simply amazing isnt it?! How do you feel so far on 0.5mg? Are you dosing once daily or still twice daily? Look forward to your response. Keep your head up high, stick to the plan, YOU ARE ALMOST THERE. YOU got this. The light is at the end of the tunnel DSH. I am right here by your side.....God Bless
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsh12345 View Post
    She made her own thread. She's a bit anxious it seems.. posting every 10minutes begging for help with very short generic comments like "get me off please!!!!"..... I posted in her thread already, as also one of the veterans did too... and she basically ignored ricky's post saying she needed to "talk to a real person not a website", but she hasn't responded to my post yet where I laid out her options of either CT now, taper and then CT, or go on subs. Hopefully, she read that, and got some knowledge out of it. Hope she also calms down too. Can't even get a simple answer out of her like how long she's been using and how much despite multiple ppl asking her.

    Rose, if you are out there, CALM DOWN!. People are here to help. Speak clearly, clean sentences, ok!
    Interesting...I just saw her post 6-7 times on my thread; while I don't mind and am glad to help along with others (I assume) I mentioned to her as well to make her own thread. I responded twice to her on my thread cause I couldn't get clear answers or a response from her. As you said, she seems very anxious but isn't responding to people who are trying to help her...Rose....as DSH mentioned....IF YOU READ THIS, this forum consists of live people, but we can not offer anything (i.e. Support, advice) outside of the forum. God Bless

  5. #65
    ROSES8 is offline Junior Member
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    I just want you to know that I am living your same problems every day. I am crying typing this. This is the first time being on this website. I need help. Reading peoples storys are a start.

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    ROSES8 is offline Junior Member
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    I am reading your replies. I keep posting because I am new to this site and I didn't think people were getting my messages. Thank you for responding.

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    ROSES8 is offline Junior Member
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    I am going through the same exact thing. I need help. Its hard to ask for it and thats why I started reading this website.

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    ROSES8 is offline Junior Member
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    I will. I am looking at these post and replies but I think Im doing it wrong because I see people posting complaints about me. I will learn though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ROSES8 View Post
    I will. I am looking at these post and replies but I think Im doing it wrong because I see people posting complaints about me. I will learn though.
    Rose, first and foremost, welcome and congratulations on taking the first step towards clean. Do not think that way, everyone is welcome here. No one has complaints about or against you. In fact, they are only trying to help you by getting you to stick to one place to post. Try gathering all thoughts, opinions, concerns, etc into one post instead of multiple posts.

    Now that we have addressed that, tell us, what's your problem? What have you been doing? For how long? How much did you take? Most importantly what do you plan to do about it? I.e. Suboxone taper or cold turkey withdrawls. Some people suggest cold turkey (but based off your will power and habit) this might not be doable which is where suboxone comes into play. Do you have subs or access to them via a sub doctor? Awaiting your reply! God Bless

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    Hi all, just noticed I forgot to post a daily update past the morning 2mg dose. Ive finally been stable and feel totally normal to the point where I've been trying to help others as much as possible today on the forum. This is the BEST I have felt in AWHILE! So proud of this milestone. Just took my 2nd dose of 2mg for the day and it should be kicking in shortly. Its been about 45 min since I took it. Feel really good, played with my baby earlier, went out for a walk, was extra productive with work today. Feels so good!!! I am now 4 days clean off vics and I can surely say I havent craved, thought about or even missed them I am dropping dosage tomorrow to 3mg for 3-4 days, I envision I should be stable much quicker than the 4 days given the fact that 4mg of subs in a day was enough to really hold down a 1g-1.5g of vicodin habit a day and most symptoms have been relieved by the subs. Hope all is well with everyone out there. Ill continue posting about my journey to clean. I will have an update tomorrow once I see how I feel and if tomorrow is the right day for 3mg! Let's keep moving forward, together we can do this! God bless
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  11. #71
    Ricky71 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopingtobeclean View Post
    Hi all, just noticed I forgot to post a daily update past the morning 2mg dose. Ive finally been stable and feel totally normal to the point where I've been trying to help others as much as possible today on the forum. This is the BEST I have felt in AWHILE! So proud of this milestone. Just took my 2nd dose of 2mg for the day and it should be kicking in shortly. Its been about 45 min since I took it. Feel really good, played with my baby earlier, went out for a walk, was extra productive with work today. Feels so good!!! I am now 4 days clean off vics and I can surely say I havent craved, thought about or even missed them I am dropping dosage tomorrow to 3mg for 3-4 days, I envision I should be stable much quicker than the 4 days given the fact that 4mg of subs in a day was enough to really hold down a 1g-1.5g of vicodin habit a day and most symptoms have been relieved by the subs. Hope all is well with everyone out there. Ill continue posting about my journey to clean. I will have an update tomorrow once I see how I feel and if tomorrow is the right day for 3mg! Let's keep moving forward, together we can do this! God bless
    As Bette and myself have already mentioned to you, SLOW DOWN. Sub tapering is not a race! If you go back to my first post to you you'll see the two most important things to do while tapering subs? If these two things aren't followed then you may experience unnecessary problems and discomfort throughout the taper process?

    When starting sub therapy you should really wait a week before beginning the 25% reductions every 4-5 days. I only say these things because I want this to go as smoothly as possible for you with the least amount of problems. Remember what Bette said "do this right the first time and you'll never have to do it again"... You're really doing great by the way! Take care... God bless us all!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky71 View Post
    As Bette and myself have already mentioned to you, SLOW DOWN. Sub tapering is not a race! If you go back to my first post to you you'll see the two most important things to do while tapering subs? If these two things aren't followed then you may experience unnecessary problems and discomfort throughout the taper process?

    When starting sub therapy you should really wait a week before beginning the 25% reductions every 4-5 days. I only say these things because I want this to go as smoothly as possible for you with the least amount of problems. Remember what Bette said "do this right the first time and you'll never have to do it again"... You're really doing great by the way! Take care... God bless us all!
    Hi Ricky! Totally understand! Tomorrow will be day 5....are you suggesting sticking on 4mg for a day longer to avoid any discomfort or problems that might arise? I totally respect your opinion and am more than open to suggestions, as you all know by now, I just dont want to be on subs too long

    I know it's not a race, but I am trying to drop every 4 days and take the minimal discomfort (although I've had none ever since the 2nd day of being on subs). I want to do it once and do it right. Slow and steady wins the race....

    Thanks for the kind words....I am going to continue posting progress as well so others too can see my results and in hopes of it helping them get clean! God Bless and I look forward to your response
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  13. #73
    Ricky71 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopingtobeclean View Post
    Hi Ricky! Totally understand! Tomorrow will be day 5....are you suggesting sticking on 4mg for a day longer to avoid any discomfort or problems that might arise? I totally respect your opinion and am more than open to suggestions, as you all know by now, I just dont want to be on subs too long

    I know it's not a race, but I am trying to drop every 4 days and take the minimal discomfort (although I've had none ever since the 2nd day of being on subs). I want to do it once and do it right. Slow and steady wins the race....

    Thanks for the kind words....I am going to continue posting progress as well so others too can see my results and in hopes of it helping them get clean! God Bless and I look forward to your response
    If you feel you are ready to do a reduction then by all means but it's okay and recommended to take an extra day or two if needed to be sure you are completely stable? Robert's plan is roughly two months from start to finish. This gives you time to deal with your addictive behaviors so you can have the best chance at long-term success. In addition you may want to consider some one on one interaction like drug addiction counseling and/or in a group setting like NA/AA meetings? Keep us updated? Be well... God bless us all!
    .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky71 View Post
    If you feel you are ready to do a reduction then by all means but it's okay and recommended to take an extra day or two if needed to be sure you are completely stable? Robert's plan is roughly two months from start to finish. This gives you time to deal with your addictive behaviors so you can have the best chance at long-term success. In addition you may want to consider some one on one interaction like drug addiction counseling and/or in a group setting like NA/AA meetings? Keep us updated? Be well... God bless us all!
    .
    Hey Ricky! Call me crazy....but I truly believe tomorrow is the day for 3mg! I believe I am fully stable now as I have not had a single sign of any wd symptoms since the first to second day, second day being the mildest of wds. Day 3 and 4 Ive been feeling normal, not a single wd symptom in sight, even when I woke up! I'm sort of coasting off Roberts plan, but as mentioned earlier, I am very well versed in this field so I do know what to expect "should" the 3mg dose go south. If it does (I am mentally prepared for the worse) I will have to keep fighting through including any discomfort that might arise. I mentioned in my daily plan, with the subs, I am taking a whole bunch of other vitamins and remedies and in the evenings am adding clonidine, ropinorole and advil pm. Very good combo as opposed to using benzos which I know some feel is ok to use with subs, but scientifically it's probably not.

    In regards to confronting the addictive behaviors, I mentioned in earlier posts I am seeing a therapist (md) who is assisting me with the psychological and mental aspect to beating the addiction part of this journey. So far, first session went beyond amazing!

    I will keep posting the journey to clean I truly hope this thread helps anyone else out there in a similar situation as I've rarely seen the bigger habit stories such as mine get posted....good luck all and God Bless

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    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi there!
    I have only been gone 12 hours or so to work and a lot has
    Happened on here!

    You my friend are doing great!
    If tomorrow is 3 mg than go for it..
    I have been here with Ricky for years and agree with him..
    some drops later might be every 4 days some every 6 days it really doesn't matter..

    You got stable pretty fast so go for it!

    Idk anyone that feels that benzos are good with sub!
    But then again I don't know everyone either!

    Hopefully you will only need the sub at some point..

    I took a Tylenol pm or sleepy time tea once in while during my taper. And still do..
    Especially when I have to work in the am..
    I get up very early and work 12 hour shifts so I have to sleep!

    But thank god it is only 3 days a week so I have time to recover from those shifts..

    Today was my 1st day of 3 but I will Che k back tomorrow night

    Take care
    Bette

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    Ricky71 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopingtobeclean View Post
    Hey Ricky! Call me crazy....but I truly believe tomorrow is the day for 3mg! I believe I am fully stable now as I have not had a single sign of any wd symptoms since the first to second day, second day being the mildest of wds. Day 3 and 4 Ive been feeling normal, not a single wd symptom in sight, even when I woke up! I'm sort of coasting off Roberts plan, but as mentioned earlier, I am very well versed in this field so I do know what to expect "should" the 3mg dose go south. If it does (I am mentally prepared for the worse) I will have to keep fighting through including any discomfort that might arise. I mentioned in my daily plan, with the subs, I am taking a whole bunch of other vitamins and remedies and in the evenings am adding clonidine, ropinorole and advil pm. Very good combo as opposed to using benzos which I know some feel is ok to use with subs, but scientifically it's probably not.

    In regards to confronting the addictive behaviors, I mentioned in earlier posts I am seeing a therapist (md) who is assisting me with the psychological and mental aspect to beating the addiction part of this journey. So far, first session went beyond amazing!

    I will keep posting the journey to clean I truly hope this thread helps anyone else out there in a similar situation as I've rarely seen the bigger habit stories such as mine get posted....good luck all and God Bless
    You seem well prepared and I'm confident that you will do just fine. Be rest assured that your story will definitely help others now and in the future. Keep on keepin on!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iluv2smile View Post
    Hi there!
    I have only been gone 12 hours or so to work and a lot has
    Happened on here!

    You my friend are doing great!
    If tomorrow is 3 mg than go for it..
    I have been here with Ricky for years and agree with him..
    some drops later might be every 4 days some every 6 days it really doesn't matter..

    You got stable pretty fast so go for it!

    Idk anyone that feels that benzos are good with sub!
    But then again I don't know everyone either!

    Hopefully you will only need the sub at some point..

    I took a Tylenol pm or sleepy time tea once in while during my taper. And still do..
    Especially when I have to work in the am..
    I get up very early and work 12 hour shifts so I have to sleep!

    But thank god it is only 3 days a week so I have time to recover from those shifts..

    Today was my 1st day of 3 but I will Che k back tomorrow night

    Take care
    Bette
    Hi Bette! Always a pleasure to hear from you

    Boy, you sure have missed out on alot in 12 hours! I am confident you have brought yourself up to speed however!

    I am feeling confident tomorrow is the day for 3mg, unless I wake up feeliNg otherwise, which hasn't been the case this past 2 days...!

    By all means, I do agree with Ricky and you, Bette, I think my mindset and end goal is a tad bit different; as in, mine consists of partially paying the piper while lowering sub usage effectively every 4 days! You must pay the price...one way or another!! You're right, I stabilized very quickly which again, for the volume of usage I had was weird, not to mention i threw myself into precipitated wds, which to that was very mild too?! I escaped easy there, hence why I am paying the price and sticking to the plan!

    From time to time, you do need those comfort meds, they sure do help!

    I look forward to hearing from you when you're off your shift and back on the forum...I know weekends tend to slow down....but during my journey I will be posting constantly. Amazing how everything is falling into place....slowly but surely....we will beat this together God Bless and enjoy the Easter Weekend!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky71 View Post
    You seem well prepared and I'm confident that you will do just fine. Be rest assured that your story will definitely help others now and in the future. Keep on keepin on!
    Thank you Ricky! I appreciate the reinforcement and encouragement! I am totally confident that everyone's success stories will help now and in the future, as well as mine. I read your thread, amazed by your efforts and mindset to beat this! As you said my friend, keep on keepin on! God Bless and enjoy the weekend
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    dsh12345 is offline Senior Member
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    Hey I just wanted to stop by and say how happy I am that you are doing well right now after inducting on subs.


    I wasn't sure what to make of everything at the start... a 150pill a day vicodin habit? Subs 4 hours after vicodin? I didn't know the liver could live through that much daily tylenol. I don't even wanna know how much work and time it took for you each week to keep that supply going, or how much money I know you sold your business like you said.... man that's rough.


    I didn't know if you would make it through the first week given the crazy combination of stuff you decided to go with, but again I am really excited that things worked out and you feel good on a decently low sub dose and have strung a couple good days together. Also, I'm loving your attitude and positive vibes and learning to enjoy life without opiates. I believe, not from personal experience, but from countless hours of reading stories on here and tlaking to ppl that have kept clean... the key to staying off forever is really getting to work on re-training your brain to live life sober and not need that artificial happy boost that comes from a bottle.... so again I really like how you area enjoying life right now without the opiate euphoria, finding joy in playing with your kids etc.


    I was skeptical at first given the beginning craziness... but now I think definitely you are well on your way towards a successful plan and strategy.


    Remember.. DO NOT RUSH THIS. If you need an extra day or 2 at a dose.... stick there. Go slow and steady..... 4mg, then 3, then 2, then 1.5, then 1, then 0.75, 0.5, 0.25.... and whatever. Don't go any faster than that. The drops from 3 to 2 and 1.5 to 1 are 33% drops so that's pretty aggressive as it is already. Don't try to think you are hot stuff and drop from like 3 to 1 or 1 to 0.5 (that's a 50%)...... remember you don't gotta win this race you just gotta finish.

    Feeling good can make you overconfident sometimes. Believe it or not.... I would actually get high on opiates in order to not think about the fact that I was stuck on opiates. Back when I was using full opiates... when I woke up in the AM and hadn't dosed all night.... if I thought about my opiate habit it was extreme depression and shame and anxiety and worry about how I would be able to get clean... however after taking my immediate wakeup AM dose of opiates I would get the euphoria back and when I thought about opiates when high on opiates I would think "man.. totally feeling good... going CT is gonna be cake whenever I just get around to deciding to do it. Im good im happy all is right i got no problems this habit is no big deal....", of course that was all fake confidence and fake happiness from the opiates.... Looking back.... there would probably never be a day where I wouldn't dose my drug of choice within 10 minutes of waking up.... the main reason wouldn't be mild physical WD symptoms that would develop overnight... I took too much opiates back then in the evenings to get physical WD symtpoms when I woke up.... but I took my DOC immediately on waking to get my mood back as soon as possible because in those semi-sober 10minutes after waking up all the bad thoughts and depression abotu my habit would return... so yea it was ugly.

    So, it's kind of a sick cycle when you think about it..... using more opiates to cover up the thoughts about the fact that you are stuck on opiates....


    But I'm rambling now. The bottom line is.... I am really happy for you, I am happy for the progress you are making, I think you will be successful, but go slow go steady and make sure you stabilize. Once you stabilize and feel really good and really normal the drops become cake. Just don't rush it. I never rushed it, stuck to the Robert plan, and I am doing pretty good on Day 2 of 0.5mg. The vets all say we know now it's probably best to go a tad lower than 0.5mg before jumping... but if you stick by the original original original Roberts plan.... he suggested 0.5mg as the final stop before skip days and jumping so if you go by strictly the Roberts plan.. I'm already on my last step! It's not the last step as you know as I'm going lower... but still excited about my progress and as well as your own.

    Good luck ok!
    Last edited by Anonymous; 04-15-2017 at 01:22 PM.
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    dsh12345 is offline Senior Member
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    One other thing I wanted to add..... as you go lower on the subs..... the subs should still be more than adequately powerful to keep the physical WD symptoms away (that is the whole point... being stable and getting stable on each dose)... but as the dose goes down the sub's power to keep cravings at bay will lessen and lessen. For ppl on full 8mg, 16mg, 32mg doses..... 98%+ of opiate receptors in your brain are filled with sub and you could put a giant pile of pills next to the world's worst pill addict and he'll have no interest in even wanting to take them even if he didn't know that subs blocked the high if he did decide to take. But at lower doses.... it certainly isn't 100% when it comes to how much opiate receptors are filled with sub so bouts of cravings could be a mild possibility.

    But that's the whole point.... leaving empty receptors empty slowly but surely to train your brain to live life without opiates. If 100% of your receptors are filled with sub.... your brain will INCREASE its receptors (increasing tolerance, getting further away from being able to feel comfortable clean on no substances). The only way to decrease tolerance is to give less sub and keep those receptors empty.... that trains the brain that it doesn't need that many empty opiate receptors and reduces the amount.... thus DECREASING your tolerance... and getting you closer to the eventual point where the brain is perfectly comfortable without any opiate of any kind.



    So, I guess back to my original point (I'm rambling again)...... There will likely be a point 1-2 weeks in as you taper where you get some cravings.... or you get a moment of weakness, or you want to test the ability to the subs to block the opiate high....... it's important to not given in when those cravings happen. As I said, since the physical symptoms are still being controlled by the subs... those cravings at 100% mental right... they aren't being driven by your desire to get rid of acute WD symptoms... so it's 100% mental. When I think about opiates right now... there is ZERO nostalgia. I don't even desire the high right now. I've been able to be happy enough the past 1-2 weeks without the opiate euphoria that I don't crave that right now. Also, I don't think about the euphoria when I think about opiates.... I think about all the bad stuff.. the long term pain that came with the short term high.... constnatly looking for a supply, putting ungodly amounts of strange powder up my nose, hiding my habits from friends, smuggling the drug onto airplanes, having the carefully schedule out and buildup a supply of drug whenever I needed to take a 4-5 day trip, constantly panicking if mild WD was starting to kick in and the supplier wasn't picking up the phone, or was 1-2 hours late (or 4-5 hours late) as usual and the WD symptoms were getting worse and my phone wasn't pinging with his texts/calls, and it was approaching 9pm so no one would be around anymore if this guy didn't come through and I would have to go through the night and morning with WD.... etc etc etc. ugh so horrible don't want to ever go back to that..
    Last edited by Anonymous; 04-15-2017 at 01:34 PM.
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    Ricky71 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsh12345 View Post
    Hey I just wanted to stop by and say how happy I am that you are doing well right now after inducting on subs.


    I wasn't sure what to make of everything at the start... a 150pill a day vicodin habit? Subs 4 hours after vicodin? I didn't know the liver could live through that much daily tylenol. I don't even wanna know how much work and time it took for you each week to keep that supply going, or how much money I know you sold your business like you said.... man that's rough.


    I didn't know if you would make it through the first week given the crazy combination of stuff you decided to go with, but again I am really excited that things worked out and you feel good on a decently low sub dose and have strung a couple good days together. Also, I'm loving your attitude and positive vibes and learning to enjoy life without opiates. I believe, not from personal experience, but from countless hours of reading stories on here and tlaking to ppl that have kept clean... the key to staying off forever is really getting to work on re-training your brain to live life sober and not need that artificial happy boost that comes from a bottle.... so again I really like how you area enjoying life right now without the opiate euphoria, finding joy in playing with your kids etc.


    I was skeptical at first given the beginning craziness... but now I think definitely you are well on your way towards a successful plan and strategy.


    Remember.. DO NOT RUSH THIS. If you need an extra day or 2 at a dose.... stick there. Go slow and steady..... 4mg, then 3, then 2, then 1.5, then 1, then 0.75, 0.5, 0.25.... and whatever. Don't go any faster than that. The drops from 3 to 2 and 1.5 to 1 are 33% drops so that's pretty aggressive as it is already. Don't try to think you are hot stuff and drop from like 3 to 1 or 1 to 0.5 (that's a 50%)...... remember you don't gotta win this race you just gotta finish.

    Feeling good can make you overconfident sometimes. Believe it or not.... I would actually get high on opiates in order to not think about the fact that I was stuck on opiates. Back when I was using full opiates... when I woke up in the AM and hadn't dosed all night.... if I thought about my opiate habit it was extreme depression and shame and anxiety and worry about how I would be able to get clean... however after taking my immediate wakeup AM dose of opiates I would get the euphoria back and when I thought about opiates when high on opiates I would think "man.. totally feeling good... going CT is gonna be cake whenever I just get around to deciding to do it. Im good im happy all is right i got no problems this habit is no big deal....", of course that was all fake confidence and fake happiness from the opiates.... Looking back.... there would probably never be a day where I wouldn't dose my drug of choice within 10 minutes of waking up.... the main reason wouldn't be mild physical WD symptoms that would develop overnight... I took too much opiates back then in the evenings to get physical WD symtpoms when I woke up.... but I took my DOC immediately on waking to get my mood back as soon as possible because in those semi-sober 10minutes after waking up all the bad thoughts and depression abotu my habit would return... so yea it was ugly.

    So, it's kind of a sick cycle when you think about it..... using more opiates to cover up the thoughts about the fact that you are stuck on opiates....


    But I'm rambling now. The bottom line is.... I am really happy for you, I am happy for the progress you are making, I think you will be successful, but go slow go steady and make sure you stabilize. Once you stabilize and feel really good and really normal the drops become cake. Just don't rush it. I never rushed it, stuck to the Robert plan, and I am doing pretty good on Day 2 of 0.5mg. The vets all say we know now it's probably best to go a tad lower than 0.5mg before jumping... but if you stick by the original original original Roberts plan.... he suggested 0.5mg as the final stop before skip days and jumping so if you go by strictly the Roberts plan.. I'm already on my last step! It's not the last step as you know as I'm going lower... but still excited about my progress and as well as your own.

    Good luck ok!
    Great post dsh, awesome support! I just want to make a small correction, Robert does not suggest jumping off at .5mg. That is the amount he jumped off at before doing the "skipping days" process. He however does say that "Some people find it necessary to taper down to a little less such as .25mg or less". It is entirely up to you when you decide it's time to jump off but I would recommend to taper down to at least .25mg and best yet would be to taper down one step further to .125mg! The farther you taper down the easier the jump will be and the softer the landing! Slow and steady wins the race! Take care... God bless us all!
    Iluv2smile and Lvg nghtmare like this.

  22. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsh12345 View Post
    Hey I just wanted to stop by and say how happy I am that you are doing well right now after inducting on subs.


    I wasn't sure what to make of everything at the start... a 150pill a day vicodin habit? Subs 4 hours after vicodin? I didn't know the liver could live through that much daily tylenol. I don't even wanna know how much work and time it took for you each week to keep that supply going, or how much money I know you sold your business like you said.... man that's rough.


    I didn't know if you would make it through the first week given the crazy combination of stuff you decided to go with, but again I am really excited that things worked out and you feel good on a decently low sub dose and have strung a couple good days together. Also, I'm loving your attitude and positive vibes and learning to enjoy life without opiates. I believe, not from personal experience, but from countless hours of reading stories on here and tlaking to ppl that have kept clean... the key to staying off forever is really getting to work on re-training your brain to live life sober and not need that artificial happy boost that comes from a bottle.... so again I really like how you area enjoying life right now without the opiate euphoria, finding joy in playing with your kids etc.


    I was skeptical at first given the beginning craziness... but now I think definitely you are well on your way towards a successful plan and strategy.


    Remember.. DO NOT RUSH THIS. If you need an extra day or 2 at a dose.... stick there. Go slow and steady..... 4mg, then 3, then 2, then 1.5, then 1, then 0.75, 0.5, 0.25.... and whatever. Don't go any faster than that. The drops from 3 to 2 and 1.5 to 1 are 33% drops so that's pretty aggressive as it is already. Don't try to think you are hot stuff and drop from like 3 to 1 or 1 to 0.5 (that's a 50%)...... remember you don't gotta win this race you just gotta finish.

    Feeling good can make you overconfident sometimes. Believe it or not.... I would actually get high on opiates in order to not think about the fact that I was stuck on opiates. Back when I was using full opiates... when I woke up in the AM and hadn't dosed all night.... if I thought about my opiate habit it was extreme depression and shame and anxiety and worry about how I would be able to get clean... however after taking my immediate wakeup AM dose of opiates I would get the euphoria back and when I thought about opiates when high on opiates I would think "man.. totally feeling good... going CT is gonna be cake whenever I just get around to deciding to do it. Im good im happy all is right i got no problems this habit is no big deal....", of course that was all fake confidence and fake happiness from the opiates.... Looking back.... there would probably never be a day where I wouldn't dose my drug of choice within 10 minutes of waking up.... the main reason wouldn't be mild physical WD symptoms that would develop overnight... I took too much opiates back then in the evenings to get physical WD symtpoms when I woke up.... but I took my DOC immediately on waking to get my mood back as soon as possible because in those semi-sober 10minutes after waking up all the bad thoughts and depression abotu my habit would return... so yea it was ugly.

    So, it's kind of a sick cycle when you think about it..... using more opiates to cover up the thoughts about the fact that you are stuck on opiates....


    But I'm rambling now. The bottom line is.... I am really happy for you, I am happy for the progress you are making, I think you will be successful, but go slow go steady and make sure you stabilize. Once you stabilize and feel really good and really normal the drops become cake. Just don't rush it. I never rushed it, stuck to the Robert plan, and I am doing pretty good on Day 2 of 0.5mg. The vets all say we know now it's probably best to go a tad lower than 0.5mg before jumping... but if you stick by the original original original Roberts plan.... he suggested 0.5mg as the final stop before skip days and jumping so if you go by strictly the Roberts plan.. I'm already on my last step! It's not the last step as you know as I'm going lower... but still excited about my progress and as well as your own.

    Good luck ok!
    Hey DSH! Thank you so much for the support! Sorry I wasn't able to respond yesterday or post an update. (ill be posting update after responding to you here).

    I know it sounded super crazy in the beginning and to be really honest (I knew people would have doubts or not believe me at all) but I knew I had to be as honest with myself first and foremost and I had to post the truth regardless of what anyone thought wether it was true, im making it up or just even over exaggerating. I promise you and everyone else, its been the truth from the get go. I mentioned a few times, God gave me a pass this time that i didnt have to pay for more than i had already done to myself. Yeah chasing the weekly 700+ supply was hard. That came from a mix of street access and pharma access. But I blew through money and vicodin together. It was the lowest and roughest point of my life.

    I totally agree with you. I am in the process of re-training my brain. I am so happy to be off opioids now (going on 6 days) Feeling as good as ever, being with family, not chasing the high just to talk to people and make an ass out of myself, staying positive and reinforcing my good habits, not the bad ones. The combo of otc and rx together has helped calm alot down for me, but as of Monday, I am going to cut the ropinorole and clonidine since I have stabilized myself already and can finally get decent sleep and I believe I can do it without the rx meds. If it doesn't work, I can always reincorporate them back in the mix

    Key to success is staying positive, fighting through this, getting the support needed, following directions and most importantly, wanting to do it for yourself.

    I totally understand and know where your coming from regarding the opiates masking our feelings. I too was identical to how you were in mindset and behavior thinking, oh I got this, no big deal and then boom, my morning dose kicked in and wouldn't you know, it was just another day getting high, making an ass out of myself, hiding away from family, doing my own thing, making up lies to secure the next batch, and the list goes on. So I am very confident in saying I too was in your shoes brother. I get it. We all get it. But that means NOTHING, unless we do something about it. As you said its the sick and vicious cycle that we were stuck in and that only we could break. Here we are my friend.... WE are doing it. One step closer to CLEAN!

    I am really happy for you dsh! I too am very excited about your progress. Your almost out of the woods my friend. Keep fighting through the beast. We can do this together, granted I am abit behind you, I will be where you are too. I chose not to rush anymore, I am stabilized at 4mg. Dropping to 3mg Monday!

    Keep up the good work, all of us. Ill keep watching your thread to my friend. God Bless

  23. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsh12345 View Post
    One other thing I wanted to add..... as you go lower on the subs..... the subs should still be more than adequately powerful to keep the physical WD symptoms away (that is the whole point... being stable and getting stable on each dose)... but as the dose goes down the sub's power to keep cravings at bay will lessen and lessen. For ppl on full 8mg, 16mg, 32mg doses..... 98%+ of opiate receptors in your brain are filled with sub and you could put a giant pile of pills next to the world's worst pill addict and he'll have no interest in even wanting to take them even if he didn't know that subs blocked the high if he did decide to take. But at lower doses.... it certainly isn't 100% when it comes to how much opiate receptors are filled with sub so bouts of cravings could be a mild possibility.

    But that's the whole point.... leaving empty receptors empty slowly but surely to train your brain to live life without opiates. If 100% of your receptors are filled with sub.... your brain will INCREASE its receptors (increasing tolerance, getting further away from being able to feel comfortable clean on no substances). The only way to decrease tolerance is to give less sub and keep those receptors empty.... that trains the brain that it doesn't need that many empty opiate receptors and reduces the amount.... thus DECREASING your tolerance... and getting you closer to the eventual point where the brain is perfectly comfortable without any opiate of any kind.



    So, I guess back to my original point (I'm rambling again)...... There will likely be a point 1-2 weeks in as you taper where you get some cravings.... or you get a moment of weakness, or you want to test the ability to the subs to block the opiate high....... it's important to not given in when those cravings happen. As I said, since the physical symptoms are still being controlled by the subs... those cravings at 100% mental right... they aren't being driven by your desire to get rid of acute WD symptoms... so it's 100% mental. When I think about opiates right now... there is ZERO nostalgia. I don't even desire the high right now. I've been able to be happy enough the past 1-2 weeks without the opiate euphoria that I don't crave that right now. Also, I don't think about the euphoria when I think about opiates.... I think about all the bad stuff.. the long term pain that came with the short term high.... constnatly looking for a supply, putting ungodly amounts of strange powder up my nose, hiding my habits from friends, smuggling the drug onto airplanes, having the carefully schedule out and buildup a supply of drug whenever I needed to take a 4-5 day trip, constantly panicking if mild WD was starting to kick in and the supplier wasn't picking up the phone, or was 1-2 hours late (or 4-5 hours late) as usual and the WD symptoms were getting worse and my phone wasn't pinging with his texts/calls, and it was approaching 9pm so no one would be around anymore if this guy didn't come through and I would have to go through the night and morning with WD.... etc etc etc. ugh so horrible don't want to ever go back to that..
    Correct AND amazing advice DSH! You are absolutely correct in it that as you taper and stabilize, less bupe is in the system hence the person taking the subs MUST start to change thought process, habits, and understand the mental aspect of the process. Its true that some can experience mild wds hence why we want to stabilize ourselves prior to drop. I felt ready to drop to 3mg on sat, but my body told me it wasn't time yet..so here we are Sunday, still at 4mg for the day, if I am ready tomorrow I will drop to 3mg....as the saying goes...slow and steady wins the race

    Once again, you are right, the process here is to get the receptors minimized and the brain to heal and understand/know it no longer needs to produce so many thus lowering tolerance. We've done some damage to ourselves and we owe it to our mind and body to adjust and heal accordingly at its own pace, hence, through the process you must be ready to pay alittle bit here and there; but hopefully no one has too. It does vary on which route a sub user wants/decides to take...i.e. Vet advice, robert plan, md advice, etc. right now I am working (as you are) to use the subs properly to give our brain time to adjust to life without. The mind has to understand I am no longer feeding it hydro at all, so it has to slowly decrease and cease the creation of receptors to the point where the mind is stabilizing back to normal (during the taper time until its time).

    Dont you ever worry or apologize for rambling, I truly APPRECIATE every single word you type. Its for the greater good and for everyone to see our stories and learn, understand and nost importantly know. I truly hope our stories help and inspire others like us to get and become clean.
    As I mentioned earlier, you and i are almost identical in it that our habits, thought process etc are very similar. If I take a trip, do i have enough? When is supplier coming and bringing next batch? How do i tell my wife I need to leave at 10pm for 5 min, ugh. JUST THINKING about this >>>> just makes me cringe and say I am so freaking happy I took this HUGE leap to sobriety and being clean so as to never having to deal with that EVER AGAIN. NO THANKS!!! ALL SET!!!! As of now I will be honest, I had some cravings yesterday but, the minute that happened, I grabbed my baby, put her shoes on and took her to the park to immediately get my mind off it. This morning I am fine, no cravings, IT WORKED! Am i worried I might have mild possibly even severe cravings as the subs lessen in my system over the next few weeks...yes....am i letting it get to me or am I going to crack under pressure? NO. NO. NO! My therapist mentioned the minute that happens, pickup and leave, do something, get on the phone, talk to someone, write an email then delete it, grab your baby, take a walk, hell, even smoke a cigarette, do something to switch focus and get your mind off thinking of or craving the doc immediately which I have to say, worked 100% for me. SO glad to have gotten that advice from her. Anyways, now I am rambling but hopefully lurkers or readers can use that support so if it happens to them, they can quickly adjust their thoughts and eliminate the mental craving since the physical is being covered by the subs....good luck to us all, posting my Saturday and Sunday update shortly. God Bless

  24. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky71 View Post
    Great post dsh, awesome support! I just want to make a small correction, Robert does not suggest jumping off at .5mg. That is the amount he jumped off at before doing the "skipping days" process. He however does say that "Some people find it necessary to taper down to a little less such as .25mg or less". It is entirely up to you when you decide it's time to jump off but I would recommend to taper down to at least .25mg and best yet would be to taper down one step further to .125mg! The farther you taper down the easier the jump will be and the softer the landing! Slow and steady wins the race! Take care... God bless us all!
    Agreed Ricky! DSH is definitely posting amazing words, support and advice!! Keep it up

    I did notice that too, robert mentioned he jumped but you can go lower if needed or skip days, etc.

    Love the last line Ricky, the farther you taper down, the easier the jump! So true from what i have read here via success stories! Honesty is the best policy to beating this, slow and steady surely will win the race. God Bless

  25. #85
    dsh12345 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopingtobeclean View Post
    Agreed Ricky! DSH is definitely posting amazing words, support and advice!! Keep it up

    I did notice that too, robert mentioned he jumped but you can go lower if needed or skip days, etc.

    Love the last line Ricky, the farther you taper down, the easier the jump! So true from what i have read here via success stories! Honesty is the best policy to beating this, slow and steady surely will win the race. God Bless
    Hey, glad to see you are still doing well. Weekends can be kind of slow here, as you will learn.


    Just wanted to add on more thing.... one of the principles of the Robert plan is to go on as little as sub for as short as time as possible, so again, it's already built to be ultra aggressive. The four day stop at each dose is already the absolute minimum time. This is because of the long half life. For example, if you drop from 1mg to 0.5mg, on day 2 of 0.5mg you might still be feeling good and think you are perfectly stable on 0.5mg and wanna drop immediately again the next day instead of staying 2 more days at 0.5mg... but you have to realize the higher 1mg doses from the previous days are still in your system and helping to prop you up. After 4 days, then higher doses have sufficiently washed out of your system, and all that you feel on day 4 of a dose is strictly from that dose and not the higher one before it. So, if stable on day 4, that's the first time you can really say your body has accepted that dose, and thus it means it's time to move on down to a lower dose.

    This can take quite a bit of getting used to. As someone said to me once, it's not like our old DOC where it hits us instantly in seconds to minutes, and its over with in a couple hours, being on subs is kind of like a slow wave that you just ride along. You are definitely still feeling doses from 2 days ago which seems like craziness compared to vicodins or whatever... but it is true with subs. I have read so many sub stories on so many websites, and a common theme is someone will jump from a high dose like 16mg... feel fine for like 4-5 days, make a post celebrating how happy they are to have gotten off subs and gotten clean and might be one of the lucky ones that somehow skipped withdrawals (definitely a fantasy scenario).. but then they report back that they hit a giant wall on day 6 and feel totally miserable for the next 2-3 weeks. After reading story after story like that... all the same.... it really drove home the reality of how doses 2 or even more days ago really are still in your system no matter how crazy that thought is when compared to your old DOC.

    Again rambling, but my point is do not underestimate the half life of suboxone. It is NOT 72hrs, but rather it is 24-72 hours depending on the person....but of course everybody will still say they have to be one of the ones where it only lasts 12-24hours....that's alot of our old addict thinking built in there.... it is definitely 24-72hrs period, likely 36hours for most ppl. The four day stop at each dose is the absolute minimum amount of time needed for the old higher dose to completely wash out, so that you can truly read your body at your current dose to decide if it's ready to drop or not. If you drop too early, say after just spending like 2 days at 2mg, what you might find is that your body needed more days at 2mg, and now it's just getting 1.5mg because you've already moved on early, and you will feel blah, and when your brain finally starts to begin to catch up to the 1.5mg, you've already gotten impatient again and dropped again to like 1mg so your brain never catches up and the blah feelings follow you all the way down.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 04-16-2017 at 02:00 PM.

  26. #86
    dsh12345 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopingtobeclean View Post
    Hey DSH! Thank you so much for the support! Sorry I wasn't able to respond yesterday or post an update. (ill be posting update after responding to you here).

    I know it sounded super crazy in the beginning and to be really honest (I knew people would have doubts or not believe me at all) but I knew I had to be as honest with myself first and foremost and I had to post the truth regardless of what anyone thought wether it was true, im making it up or just even over exaggerating. I promise you and everyone else, its been the truth from the get go. I mentioned a few times, God gave me a pass this time that i didnt have to pay for more than i had already done to myself. Yeah chasing the weekly 700+ supply was hard. That came from a mix of street access and pharma access. But I blew through money and vicodin together. It was the lowest and roughest point of my life.

    I totally agree with you. I am in the process of re-training my brain. I am so happy to be off opioids now (going on 6 days) Feeling as good as ever, being with family, not chasing the high just to talk to people and make an ass out of myself, staying positive and reinforcing my good habits, not the bad ones. The combo of otc and rx together has helped calm alot down for me, but as of Monday, I am going to cut the ropinorole and clonidine since I have stabilized myself already and can finally get decent sleep and I believe I can do it without the rx meds. If it doesn't work, I can always reincorporate them back in the mix

    Key to success is staying positive, fighting through this, getting the support needed, following directions and most importantly, wanting to do it for yourself.

    I totally understand and know where your coming from regarding the opiates masking our feelings. I too was identical to how you were in mindset and behavior thinking, oh I got this, no big deal and then boom, my morning dose kicked in and wouldn't you know, it was just another day getting high, making an ass out of myself, hiding away from family, doing my own thing, making up lies to secure the next batch, and the list goes on. So I am very confident in saying I too was in your shoes brother. I get it. We all get it. But that means NOTHING, unless we do something about it. As you said its the sick and vicious cycle that we were stuck in and that only we could break. Here we are my friend.... WE are doing it. One step closer to CLEAN!

    I am really happy for you dsh! I too am very excited about your progress. Your almost out of the woods my friend. Keep fighting through the beast. We can do this together, granted I am abit behind you, I will be where you are too. I chose not to rush anymore, I am stabilized at 4mg. Dropping to 3mg Monday!

    Keep up the good work, all of us. Ill keep watching your thread to my friend. God Bless
    Heh.... what you will find too as you read more stories on here.... the stories are very similar. We all can relate to that prison of using.... the escape from reality, the panicking about the supply, apprehension about planes/trips, etc that leads everyone to this point... coming to this forum for help getting clean because they've been fed up with all the long term pain that comes with the short term benefits of using. This is a good thing. Your problems are not unique. The sick reasons that motivated you to use, and all the ways you tried to justify to yourself why you used, how much resources you spent using and what you lost due to using.... no matter how much you feel shame and disgust at yourself for all that.... you aren't the only person to fall victim to that trap. We all fell in that trap... but the good thing is we all realize that now, and are doing something about it to fix it and get out of that trap forever.

  27. #87
    Ricky71 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopingtobeclean View Post
    Hey DSH! Thank you so much for the support! Sorry I wasn't able to respond yesterday or post an update. (ill be posting update after responding to you here).

    I know it sounded super crazy in the beginning and to be really honest (I knew people would have doubts or not believe me at all) but I knew I had to be as honest with myself first and foremost and I had to post the truth regardless of what anyone thought wether it was true, im making it up or just even over exaggerating. I promise you and everyone else, its been the truth from the get go. I mentioned a few times, God gave me a pass this time that i didnt have to pay for more than i had already done to myself. Yeah chasing the weekly 700+ supply was hard. That came from a mix of street access and pharma access. But I blew through money and vicodin together. It was the lowest and roughest point of my life.

    I totally agree with you. I am in the process of re-training my brain. I am so happy to be off opioids now (going on 6 days) Feeling as good as ever, being with family, not chasing the high just to talk to people and make an ass out of myself, staying positive and reinforcing my good habits, not the bad ones. The combo of otc and rx together has helped calm alot down for me, but as of Monday, I am going to cut the ropinorole and clonidine since I have stabilized myself already and can finally get decent sleep and I believe I can do it without the rx meds. If it doesn't work, I can always reincorporate them back in the mix

    Key to success is staying positive, fighting through this, getting the support needed, following directions and most importantly, wanting to do it for yourself.

    I totally understand and know where your coming from regarding the opiates masking our feelings. I too was identical to how you were in mindset and behavior thinking, oh I got this, no big deal and then boom, my morning dose kicked in and wouldn't you know, it was just another day getting high, making an ass out of myself, hiding away from family, doing my own thing, making up lies to secure the next batch, and the list goes on. So I am very confident in saying I too was in your shoes brother. I get it. We all get it. But that means NOTHING, unless we do something about it. As you said its the sick and vicious cycle that we were stuck in and that only we could break. Here we are my friend.... WE are doing it. One step closer to CLEAN!

    I am really happy for you dsh! I too am very excited about your progress. Your almost out of the woods my friend. Keep fighting through the beast. We can do this together, granted I am abit behind you, I will be where you are too. I chose not to rush anymore, I am stabilized at 4mg. Dropping to 3mg Monday!

    Keep up the good work, all of us. Ill keep watching your thread to my friend. God Bless
    You're off your doc for 6 days but not off all opiods yet! In case you didn't know, subs (buprenorphine) is an opioid, an semi-synthetic partial opioid agonist to be exact. But you will be off all opiods soon so keep plugging away! You have all the knowledge to do this the correct way which will ensure that you have the most comfortable taper and jump possible. You're doing amazing, no "sub horror story" here! Slow and steady as you know! God bless us all!

  28. #88
    dsh12345 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky71 View Post
    You're off your doc for 6 days but not off all opiods yet! In case you didn't know, subs (buprenorphine) is an opioid, an semi-synthetic partial opioid agonist to be exact. But you will be off all opiods soon so keep plugging away! You have all the knowledge to do this the correct way which will ensure that you have the most comfortable taper and jump possible. You're doing amazing, no "sub horror story" here! Slow and steady as you know! God bless us all!
    Yea, that's true. Good point that is worth reiterating. I've never counted clean days yet, just "days off full opiates". I know earlier I remember you congratulated me on 30 days clean when I shared a bit of my story, and I meant to clarify but it slipped my mind, that I don't see it as clean yet, because jumping from subs will be my final journey to completely off all substances and then I'll count the clean days. But, the subs are partial agonist (aka partial opioids) which is huge because it doesn't provide the euphoria that full opiates gives. That's very precious time that your brain has to re-train itself to enjoy life without opiates, and IMO has been one of the biggest benefits of subs for me - retraining my brain to not rely on substances. The only downside is that you are still dosing something every day or twice a day, so that habit your brain has of knowing it has a substance to help it is still there, but the euphoria and the high not being there is a tremendous valuable tool that subs provide.

    So, yes, while these sub days I don't count as technically "clean" days, it absolutely doesn't change the fact that each day you are on subs.... your brain is getting stronger and relearning how to live life clean without needing substances for a boost.

  29. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky71 View Post
    You're off your doc for 6 days but not off all opiods yet! In case you didn't know, subs (buprenorphine) is an opioid, an semi-synthetic partial opioid agonist to be exact. But you will be off all opiods soon so keep plugging away! You have all the knowledge to do this the correct way which will ensure that you have the most comfortable taper and jump possible. You're doing amazing, no "sub horror story" here! Slow and steady as you know! God bless us all!
    Hi Ricky! Oh yes, you're right. I guess I shouldn't be counting it or looking at it the way I have. I guess I look at it as clean 7 days from DOC but not all opioids! As you said, I am on the right track and am continuing to fight through this! Will post updates now Thank you and God Bless!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dsh12345 View Post
    Hey, glad to see you are still doing well. Weekends can be kind of slow here, as you will learn.


    Just wanted to add on more thing.... one of the principles of the Robert plan is to go on as little as sub for as short as time as possible, so again, it's already built to be ultra aggressive. The four day stop at each dose is already the absolute minimum time. This is because of the long half life. For example, if you drop from 1mg to 0.5mg, on day 2 of 0.5mg you might still be feeling good and think you are perfectly stable on 0.5mg and wanna drop immediately again the next day instead of staying 2 more days at 0.5mg... but you have to realize the higher 1mg doses from the previous days are still in your system and helping to prop you up. After 4 days, then higher doses have sufficiently washed out of your system, and all that you feel on day 4 of a dose is strictly from that dose and not the higher one before it. So, if stable on day 4, that's the first time you can really say your body has accepted that dose, and thus it means it's time to move on down to a lower dose.

    This can take quite a bit of getting used to. As someone said to me once, it's not like our old DOC where it hits us instantly in seconds to minutes, and its over with in a couple hours, being on subs is kind of like a slow wave that you just ride along. You are definitely still feeling doses from 2 days ago which seems like craziness compared to vicodins or whatever... but it is true with subs. I have read so many sub stories on so many websites, and a common theme is someone will jump from a high dose like 16mg... feel fine for like 4-5 days, make a post celebrating how happy they are to have gotten off subs and gotten clean and might be one of the lucky ones that somehow skipped withdrawals (definitely a fantasy scenario).. but then they report back that they hit a giant wall on day 6 and feel totally miserable for the next 2-3 weeks. After reading story after story like that... all the same.... it really drove home the reality of how doses 2 or even more days ago really are still in your system no matter how crazy that thought is when compared to your old DOC.

    Again rambling, but my point is do not underestimate the half life of suboxone. It is NOT 72hrs, but rather it is 24-72 hours depending on the person....but of course everybody will still say they have to be one of the ones where it only lasts 12-24hours....that's alot of our old addict thinking built in there.... it is definitely 24-72hrs period, likely 36hours for most ppl. The four day stop at each dose is the absolute minimum amount of time needed for the old higher dose to completely wash out, so that you can truly read your body at your current dose to decide if it's ready to drop or not. If you drop too early, say after just spending like 2 days at 2mg, what you might find is that your body needed more days at 2mg, and now it's just getting 1.5mg because you've already moved on early, and you will feel blah, and when your brain finally starts to begin to catch up to the 1.5mg, you've already gotten impatient again and dropped again to like 1mg so your brain never catches up and the blah feelings follow you all the way down.
    Wow. Once again, great post DSH. I agree with everything you said, 100%! I can't imagine how some people feel or are adjusting to it when they jump from 16mg. THATS A VERY HIGH DOSE! I was worried at inducting 4mg....let alone 16!! I agree with Roberts taper plan, I've been following it and although I've not experienced any downtime, or any issues, matter of fact subs saved my life, you must pay the price one way or another or have to be prepared to go thru something. This is meant to keep you "comfortable" albeit reducing cravings, symptoms (be it mentally or physically) but you might experience some discomfort, even at low doses like 4,3,2,1 mg....but the lower you get on dosing, the lower everything else begins to get! I hope that does not discourage anyone reading, but I believe honesty is the best policy and you have to know and understand, you've gotta pay one way or another, and to be honest....ill take this all day, any day over going through any type of wd!!! God Bless

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