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Hydrocodone DT
  1. #1
    Deer2myhrt is offline New Member
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    Default Hydrocodone DT

    I'm not really sure where to start here. I'm 37. Have a very successful career that over the last 16 years has wrecked my back. I'm in a job where I should "know better" so I am ashamed where I am today and have no one to turn to. I have DT from hydros or tramadol twice before over 10 years. The second time I broke down on day 4 and had to take a tramadol and it all started again. I am at a place where I can not take time off to be sick. I take 10/325 3-4 pills 3-4 times a day. I have tapered down somewhat and am at a couple Tylenol 4 a day now. But I'm almost to the end. I tried a systematic taper on my own last year. I put so many in baggies for am and pm and decreased every 4 days. I was down to 1.5 a day!!! Not really sure what happened. I had my husband help with that. He held the baggies and only gave me each days worth. I went back to the pain Dr behind his back and it all blew up again. I WANT to stop. Pain always drives me back. My job is VERY demanding and hard on a body. Sooo I have a bag of supplements. I have Robaxin and Fioricet (I do have migraines also) I just have no one to go to for support. And not sure how I'm going to handle being sick at work. The RLS is bad. I already have it occasionally as it is. I think I may have some old requip tucked away. But I can't knock myself out I work 2/3 days straight and have to be able to wake up in an instant at night. (Please don't post your guesses of my career here, your prob correct if you recognize the hours) it is quite common in this line of work for back and shoulder injuries. I just don't want to live like this anymore. I don't take them for a feeling it was all for pain then my body became dependent. Again. So how do we do this and be able to function? The worst for me that makes me turn back is the feeling of crawling out of my skin. And the RLS!! Ugh. Feeling hopeless as terrified!!
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deer2myhrt View Post
    I'm not really sure where to start here. I'm 37. Have a very successful career that over the last 16 years has wrecked my back. I'm in a job where I should "know better" so I am ashamed where I am today and have no one to turn to. I have DT from hydros or tramadol twice before over 10 years. The second time I broke down on day 4 and had to take a tramadol and it all started again. I am at a place where I can not take time off to be sick. I take 10/325 3-4 pills 3-4 times a day. I have tapered down somewhat and am at a couple Tylenol 4 a day now. But I'm almost to the end. I tried a systematic taper on my own last year. I put so many in baggies for am and pm and decreased every 4 days. I was down to 1.5 a day!!! Not really sure what happened. I had my husband help with that. He held the baggies and only gave me each days worth. I went back to the pain Dr behind his back and it all blew up again. I WANT to stop. Pain always drives me back. My job is VERY demanding and hard on a body. Sooo I have a bag of supplements. I have Robaxin and Fioricet (I do have migraines also) I just have no one to go to for support. And not sure how I'm going to handle being sick at work. The RLS is bad. I already have it occasionally as it is. I think I may have some old requip tucked away. But I can't knock myself out I work 2/3 days straight and have to be able to wake up in an instant at night. (Please don't post your guesses of my career here, your prob correct if you recognize the hours) it is quite common in this line of work for back and shoulder injuries. I just don't want to live like this anymore. I don't take them for a feeling it was all for pain then my body became dependent. Again. So how do we do this and be able to function? The worst for me that makes me turn back is the feeling of crawling out of my skin. And the RLS!! Ugh. Feeling hopeless as terrified!!
    Welcome!

    Tell me a little more please. If my math is correct, you were taking between 90 and 120mg/day but you are now only taking a couple of Tylenol 4's a day? Is that right? How long did it take you to get this far and how long have you been able to get by on the couple of T-4's?

    I totally understand the RLS. TOTALLY! Just the thought of it makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

    It's a rotten shame that this has such the stigma it has preventing so many of us from getting the help and support that we deserve. I do understand why you feel this way. (And I don't have to guess what you do for a living. I can relate.)

    Hope you read this and respond to my assumptions. I can probably at least give you a head's up on what to expect and to tell you how long this is going to last. I may also be able to give you a few suggestions that might help a little. Either way, it's good that you started a thread and reached out. The support around here is amazing.

    Peace,

    Cat

  3. #3
    Deer2myhrt is offline New Member
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    Hi Cat. Over about 2 weeks I have decreased as I ran out. I freaking injured
    My shoulder this last Monday at work and I would only let them give me the T4 for it so I could use that to taper. Right now I'm on a supplement regimen of B-100, L-Tyrosine and ItWorks HSN every AM, L-Theanine, 5-HTP, Potassium and a 1 A Day women's every PM. I just found out I wasn't taking enough L-Tyrosine and increased it today. I'm going back to my smoothies and looking for Turmeric and Camu Camu to add to them. Plus fixing to get some charcoal pills to detox with. I'm looking at ordering Passionflower on amazon to help at night. Oh and Imodium!!! Lol. I'm fixing to hit a bad stage and so scared. Are you a B,A or P? If your in the same field that is lol or do I see one of you daily at work? . And I am halfing the T4 and taking with 3 regular Tylenol thru the day. Last night I had to take a whole one. Not helping I took half a steroid pack for the shoulder and I have horrible side effects from that as it is!!
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  4. #4
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deer2myhrt View Post
    Hi Cat. Over about 2 weeks I have decreased as I ran out. I freaking injured
    My shoulder this last Monday at work and I would only let them give me the T4 for it so I could use that to taper. Right now I'm on a supplement regimen of B-100, L-Tyrosine and ItWorks HSN every AM, L-Theanine, 5-HTP, Potassium and a 1 A Day women's every PM. I just found out I wasn't taking enough L-Tyrosine and increased it today. I'm going back to my smoothies and looking for Turmeric and Camu Camu to add to them. Plus fixing to get some charcoal pills to detox with. I'm looking at ordering Passionflower on amazon to help at night. Oh and Imodium!!! Lol. I'm fixing to hit a bad stage and so scared. Are you a B,A or P? If your in the same field that is lol or do I see one of you daily at work? . And I am halfing the T4 and taking with 3 regular Tylenol thru the day. Last night I had to take a whole one. Not helping I took half a steroid pack for the shoulder and I have horrible side effects from that as it is!!
    OK. That was a really quick taper. No wonder you're having trouble. Seriously. If I were you, here's what I'd do. As you already know, those T-4's aren't doing squat to help you and in fact, they're probably keeping you in detox. Just enough of an opiate to keep you from producing seratonin causing the continued symptoms but not enough to satisfy your mu receptors. I know how scary this is. Been there. Done that. Lots. I would give it a go and stop the T4s at this point. I doubt that you're going to feel any worse than you already do.

    The supplements that you're taking are all of the right ones. You might try to find some Hylands Restful Legs or Calm Legs. You can usually find it at Walmart, the grocery store or certainly a GNC. It does help some with the RLS. I also used a heating pad at night beneath my legs. I actually used two of them, one for each leg and would occasionally move one to my back when that started to ache. The heat did provide relief for the RLS. Not perfect but better. I didn't try Passionflower but others have and report that it helps. The smoothies are also a good idea. Do you use protein powder in them? If not, try it. The protein will also help. Of course, you probably know and are drinking lots of water.

    When are your next days off? I'd get rid of what you have left and go for it. You'll have four to six days of much of the same as you have now and then the RLS and other aches will stop quite abruptly. You'll need the Immodium for a bit longer and you'll probably continue to have trouble sleeping for a while too but physically you'll be feeling much better. After that you'll still get bouts of having ants in your pants and you'll be fighting the cravings. Once I recognized the cravings for what they are I was finally able to deal with them by getting busy doing something to take my focus of of it. My house had never been so clean. lol I abused for nearly 20 years and after a couple of weeks, the cravings were much much easier to deal with. They began to appear less frequently and lasted for a far shorter period of time until they became no more than a fleeting thought. I hope this doesn't discourage you. I just found it most helpful if people were honest with me and I knew what to expect. Look at it this way. You have managed to come down from a good sized daily dose but you've stalled your progress with the Tylenol 4. If you hadn't began taking those last Monday, most of your physical distress would be passed by now. I wouldn't say it if it weren't true, but I don't think if you stopped now things will get much worse if any worse at all and it probably won't take you the full five days to begin to feel better. You may just turn the corner in around 3 days but 5 at the longest. Just consider it. I should also mention to not get discouraged. Feeling better is rarely gradual. For me, my symptoms would peak at around the 24 hour mark from my last dose and stay consistent until Day 5 when the RLS and all over aches just stopped. At that point, even not being to sleep wasn't as bad because at least I was able to be still and relax and the Immodium handled what it was supposed to handle. Try Sleepy Time Tea and/or Melatonin. Neither really helped me to sleep but it did help to relax me. Brew the tea as strong as you can stand it and use it to wash down the Melatonin. I should also mention to only take the dose of Melatonin that the label tells you to take. Taking more is a waste of time. Either it will work or it won't but taking more won't help. Trust me. I tried.

    No worries. You're not likely to run into me at work but in this case, it wouldn't be a bad thing. After all, I know entirely too much about this subject. I worked for a large medical practice for many years as the VP/Operations and my daughter is an NP. Just sayin'.

    Peace,

    Cat

    KEEP POSTING!

  5. #5
    Deer2myhrt is offline New Member
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    Thank you so much!! I go in for a 48 Monday after I go to the Dr that am to get released. Hopefully. I start feeling bad at about 12 hrs..... the T4 have held off the worst. But after tomorrow that's gone. I have NOTHING to call in until the 30th so that's good. I guess. I don't leave work for 48&72 hrs. I'll work a 48 Monday then go back Friday for a 72. That's where it's scary. If I could lay down and just "get the flu" at home a week or more then so be it. Yes I use protein powder and I already only drink water. Lots. I have a hot tub at home and spend quite a bit in it the last few days. My husband, well in his job would likely work alongside me..... if that makes sense. I just hate to let him down again. He has always been supportive but I feel like such a failure. One of my concerns is the lack of sleep. I am already up for many many hours at a time at work and can be on the road long hours also. That's just as miserable as the night issues. And feeling like I could crawl out of my skin!! I got melatonin drops and NyQuil sleep just now. Lots of fruit, some
    Superfood for my smoothies and coconut milk. Plus what I said above. Need to figure the charcoal dose. I already have a headache tonight. Grrrrrr. I am so greatfull to have someone to bounce all this off of. Thank you.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deer2myhrt View Post
    Thank you so much!! I go in for a 48 Monday after I go to the Dr that am to get released. Hopefully. I start feeling bad at about 12 hrs..... the T4 have held off the worst. But after tomorrow that's gone. I have NOTHING to call in until the 30th so that's good. I guess. I don't leave work for 48&72 hrs. I'll work a 48 Monday then go back Friday for a 72. That's where it's scary. If I could lay down and just "get the flu" at home a week or more then so be it. Yes I use protein powder and I already only drink water. Lots. I have a hot tub at home and spend quite a bit in it the last few days. My husband, well in his job would likely work alongside me..... if that makes sense. I just hate to let him down again. He has always been supportive but I feel like such a failure. One of my concerns is the lack of sleep. I am already up for many many hours at a time at work and can be on the road long hours also. That's just as miserable as the night issues. And feeling like I could crawl out of my skin!! I got melatonin drops and NyQuil sleep just now. Lots of fruit, some
    Superfood for my smoothies and coconut milk. Plus what I said above. Need to figure the charcoal dose. I already have a headache tonight. Grrrrrr. I am so greatfull to have someone to bounce all this off of. Thank you.
    That's quite the schedule you have coming up this week. I know that your inability to sleep has you worried. As weird as it sounds, for the several weeks it took me to begin to sleep well, I didn't really feel tired and it wasn't like I was sleepy during the day and unfortunately, I wasn't sleepy at night either. It was more of just wanting the respite that a few hours sleep would give me if that makes sense.

    I have to ask now that you mentioned it. You said that you can get a new script on the 30th. Are you going to do it? I know how hard it is to even think about it, but the best thing to do would be to cancel any refills that you might have now. Knowing you'll have that waiting for you once you get through this coming week just might be a temptation that you won't be able to resist.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  7. #7
    Deer2myhrt is offline New Member
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    Hell naw im not lol. I'm so done with this. Honestly yesterday I probably would have if I could just from the fear of what I know is coming. I have been really. Holding myself up to this the last several weeks honestly. I spend so much a month on meds I want to save!

  8. #8
    Deer2myhrt is offline New Member
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    That's going to be the hardest part. Being exhausted and not being able to sleep. Makes me so miserable and irritable. Plus the fog. I have to be able to make split second decisions and calculations that are literally life or death. I owe more than this to those situations. Plus then the back pain comes in. Makes my job sooooooo difficult. That's why this is so scary I guess. If we weren't so short handed I would say screw it and jump in with both feet and take off to do this. Add to this I had to take a prednisone pack and it has me feeling horrible. I hate steroids. I don't sleep with them either. It's almost a similar restlessness at night thing with them also.

  9. #9
    Deer2myhrt is offline New Member
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    Building myself up the past several weeks.....

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    Well I haven't even gone to bed yet, just got out of he hot tub. And my legs hurt so badly. This just sucks!!
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  11. #11
    Deer2myhrt is offline New Member
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    I just went thru my medicine drawer and found an old bottle of Doxepin. I started earlier in the week trying to take Neurontin I have leftover from a broke bone but it kicks my ass. I can't hardly get up in the morning and am all funky for a couple hours. So what is your thoughts on using the Doxi? I just looked it up and it is been used in place of a clonidine.

  12. #12
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    I WANT the sleep. I'm tired. But my body is fighting me. Current situation..... bathtub!! This is the worst part. Took muscle relaxers. My life sux right now I'm so miserable I really wanted to take my kids to church. The hylands tabs are a JOKE!! Unless I'm not taking enough??? Taking recommended dosage. Anyone up????? I also need proper dosages for the activated charcoal and turmeric. I could only find both in pill form at Walmart. Fixing to look in amazon. I just can't handle this right now.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 07-23-2017 at 03:48 AM.

  13. #13
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    I have decided to do a slower taper with tramadol. I think I'll only need it at bedtime. I just can't do these
    Nights while at work. Like I said I can't take Gabapentin..... idk what else to do. I had to find some kind of reprieve. I'm just not strong enough to hit this head on. I can't be up all night and crash all day.
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  14. #14
    Deer2myhrt is offline New Member
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    I have been doing some research on RLS and just found that Benadryl worsens RLS. Now I know why last night was so horrible! I took ZzzQuill before bed. Which is just diphenhydramine! FML!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deer2myhrt View Post
    Well I haven't even gone to bed yet, just got out of he hot tub. And my legs hurt so badly. This just sucks!!
    I feel for you sister! And understand the RLS thing so much. Cat is very fortunate hers ended after only 4/5 days. This is my Day 7 from a huge amount of codeine. The nights as you know are the worst. I call it the RLS b/c it starts as soon as I settle in about 9 - 10pm. But it's also like you described, just kind of crawling out of my skin; it's extremely uncomfortable. I take a sleeping tablet that doesn't even come close to alleviate the feeling and allow me to get some sleep - and now of course, addict that I am, I've overtaken them and am running out!! Such a total bummer this whole thing. Although I am feeling very good (except boredom and motivation) during the day, the night is still very challenging.

    Welcome to the forum. There's no end of support and information that others freely share.

    It's great to hear you say you're done and won't be picking up that script at the end of the month! Keep an eye on your emotions and if you start feeling like you're getting into anticipation - look out and run for the hills.

    Very quiet on your thread from other members but it will pick up with people offering real life experiences. You can do this, perhaps a little slower than originally hoped - but more safely for your own circumstances. Keep posting as I'll want to know what's going on. Try giving an update tomorrow.

    The water is kind of warm once you've been in it for a bit. Heard a member share that she was "floating" and I thought that sounded pretty.cool.

    Best of luck, along for the ride with you.
    Elcey

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deer2myhrt View Post
    I have been doing some research on RLS and just found that Benadryl worsens RLS. Now I know why last night was so horrible! I took ZzzQuill before bed. Which is just diphenhydramine! FML!
    Hey Deer, thanks for that bit of info! I did not know that. I've been taking 2 50mg Benadryl all week long. Whether it works or not I've no idea but it feels the basic need to be popping a pill to feel better. I check out some into as well.

    Gotta try and lay down again Deer. Major welcome! I haven't lived clean for a good solid six or seven years, running out every month, /tigetger we can defeat this. Certainly many before me have. Cat is super knowledgeable and well worth listening to.

    Cheers and hugs, Laura

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deer2myhrt View Post
    I have decided to do a slower taper with tramadol. I think I'll only need it at bedtime. I just can't do these
    Nights while at work. Like I said I can't take Gabapentin..... idk what else to do. I had to find some kind of reprieve. I'm just not strong enough to hit this head on. I can't be up all night and crash all day.
    I understand. Be careful with the Trams. They have a whole set of issues themselves so just try not to take too many and to not stay on them for long. One of the problems with your plan, (I'm sorry to even bring up) is that it's going to take quite a bit of the Tram to lessen your symptoms and then there's the obvious pitfalls of any taper. It takes a mighty strong will. Let's face it, if we were able to control how we take pain meds, we wouldn't be here in the first place. Most especially when you have to work, it's going to be hard to limit how much you take. We will experience some level of discomfort almost the entire time we're tapering and most certainly with each reduction. After some time we will level out and stabilize but we have to be strong enough to endure those days until we do adjust to the new lower dose and then it's time to do it again and again. So long as we have them, it's just too easy to take more in order to feel better. I do hope that this works for you and is most certainly is worth the try. Go into it with your eyes wide open and be aware of how much you are taking and if you find yourself taking more than what you had planned to get some relief. Just a thought but because you work crazy hours for 2 or 3 days a week, do you think that you can somehow coordinate your reductions with your days off being more aggressive with reducing then and then just trying to maintain on the days/nights you are working? Try to count out the number of pills that you are allowing yourself on any particular day and keep them separate from the rest. Sometimes the visual of watching them disappear as you take them will help to keep you in check. Only take with you the amount you are allowing yourself when you are at work and leave the rest at home.

    The RLS was unquestionably the one symptom that I had the hardest time with. Don t get my wrong, none of them are much fun but the RLS--My God. The Hylands didn't help me either but others report that it helps them a lot. Gaba did help me a little bit so it's really too bad that you can't take it.

    I worry about you using the Trams to be honest. I would be inclined to encourage you to try and taper from the hydros instead if you can get more of them. I hope that you'll do fine. I just know that I'm a gobbler and could never taper anything and if you end up taking the Trams for any length of time, there's a real danger of just having traded one evil for another and this one has an SSRI in it to boot so they are even harder to get off of than than the hydros. I've never used Trams myself but I've been around here long enough to see the problems that others have had trying to get off of them. I suppose you should just be very diligent about how many you need to take to get some relief and go into it knowing that you are still going to be uncomfortable because you're committing to only take what you need to take the edge off and not to remove all your symptoms. As difficult as that may sound, if you take enough of the Tram to be symptom free, you're taking too much. If they don't make that much of a difference or you need really high doses to get relief, then abandon this plan and maybe there's a Plan B to try. Make that a Plan C.

    Keep posting and let us know how you're doing. Try and be specific with how much you're taking and how much they're helping. I'll be watching for your updates.

    Peace,

    Cat

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    What about trying to get more T-4's and use those to taper? You've somehow managed this past week on what sounds like a fairly low dose of the T-4's. Those would be easier to taper with than the Trams. I just really believe that now that you've decided to taper as opposed to cold turkey, it seems safer to do it with the devil you know.

    UGH!

    Peace,

    Cat

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    Deer2myhrt is offline New Member
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    Thank you all!! I am only taking 1 50mg tram at bedtime. It's worked the past 2 nights. I'm just not sure where to go from there. I'm not taking anything else but supplements during the day. Not saying I slept the best but I slept. I start a 48hr shift
    Today and it's so hard to do my Job feeling so bad. I even have 1 T4 left that I haven't touched. The tramadol lasts longer.

  20. #20
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    This is awesome!!! Fighting the jitters already and the runs kick in. While on a call. Just kill me now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deer2myhrt View Post
    This is awesome!!! Fighting the jitters already and the runs kick in. While on a call. Just kill me now.
    Oops. I'm so sorry that you have to work thru this. I'm made of some pretty sturdy stuff, I have to admit but there was no possible way I could have forced myself into work beginning on Day 2. Day 2 always wasn't that bad and getting out of the house was the best thing for me but after that? I gave into the desire to hibernate all by myself and be miserable. To think that you are at work and going through this with a highly demanding job both mentally and physically, has me wishing I could do something to help you through this. I assume that you've got your box of Immodium in y.our pocket. At least this one symptoms responds well to something.

    Check in later. I'll watch for you. In the meantime, I'm thinking about you today and just wishing you find a little relief.

    Peace,

    Cat

  22. #22
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    Thank you so much Cat. It helps knowing I have someone in my corner to hear me whine. It's hot here to. Ugh. This job already sucks as it is in this heat. I wound up taking 6 Imodium! I took 3 about 30 min before that hit me. I never go without Imodium in my purse on a regular day lol this job is not
    Very forgiving for upset tummies. I would love to take a nap but it's been pretty steady today and I am staying on top of the rotation. The jitters have calmed some. And I didn't take anything but supplements this am. I have a few more I ordered from amazon don't remember what ATM but I'll make a list and tell you soon. Gonna try and grab a lil nap. ❤️❤️
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deer2myhrt View Post
    Thank you so much Cat. It helps knowing I have someone in my corner to hear me whine. It's hot here to. Ugh. This job already sucks as it is in this heat. I wound up taking 6 Imodium! I took 3 about 30 min before that hit me. I never go without Imodium in my purse on a regular day lol this job is not
    Very forgiving for upset tummies. I would love to take a nap but it's been pretty steady today and I am staying on top of the rotation. The jitters have calmed some. And I didn't take anything but supplements this am. I have a few more I ordered from amazon don't remember what ATM but I'll make a list and tell you soon. Gonna try and grab a lil nap. ❤️❤️
    Maybe the Immodium is helping more than just with the tummy issues. I've read over and over around here that Immodium does effect some of the same receptors as opiates but they don't cross the blood/brain barrier. People have reported taking some pretty high doses of it and said it helps a lot of the symptoms. I never did that so I can't say if it's true or not. So, maybe?

    Hope you're able to catch a few zzzz's. Long night ahead and I don't envy you.

    Peace,

    Cat

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    No nap. Been running non stop. But I feel like a new person after getting a shower!!

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    It's been an awful day. Woke up with a headache I can't get rid of. Very restless feeling all over. I'm so tired of not feeling normal

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