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I'm having the worse time I'm so sick
  1. #31
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    I have tapered down to 4.5 mg next I taper down to 3.3 mg how do I do that with a 2 mg pill? Thank you

  2. #32
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    I did what you suggested by crushing up the pill and putting in foil , I don't know how accurate it is. The powder I'm just putting in on my mouth and swallowing it ? The next amont I'm tapering down to is 3.3mg I have no idea how to measure that amount out. Thank you for all your help. The one thing I'm worried about is not measuring the Subutex correctly and not taking it evenly in the morning and at night.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 04-02-2018 at 08:33 AM. Reason: Forgot to finish my sentence

  3. #33
    Wavision is offline Member
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    Judy

    No, you are not just putting the powder in your mouth and swallowing it. You need to put the powder under your tongue and let it absorb for as long as you can. Just swallowing it will do nothing.

    As for the dose, I will let someone else answer that. I have no experience with the pills and creating accurate dose sizes, as I had the strips. There is no way you can get the strips??

  4. #34
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    Do they have strips that are just Subutex?

  5. #35
    Wavision is offline Member
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    I'm not sure. I don't think so.

    What is the issue with switching to suboxone strips though? You aren't pregnant are you?

    It will allow you to cut very precise and accurate dose sizes so there is no guessing. This in return will allow for a much easier taper.

    I personally couldn't imagine trying to use the pills to taper with. I'm sure plenty have had success with them and hopefully they will chime in soon.

    Otherwise I would try to get suboxone strips.

  6. #36
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey judy, I'm just catching up. I'm sorry I didn't specify. Yes you have to take the powder and place it under your tongue and let it dissolve.

    As for the 2mg pills. Separate in to two 1mg piles and divide one of the piles into 3 piles of .33mg each. Then you can take 1 dose of 1.5 mg and a second of 1.83mg it's a little bit larger than 3.3 mg but close enough.

    I just got to work but I'll be back later.

    Beef

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wavision View Post
    I'm not sure. I don't think so.

    What is the issue with switching to suboxone strips though? You aren't pregnant are you?

    It will allow you to cut very precise and accurate dose sizes so there is no guessing. This in return will allow for a much easier taper.

    I personally couldn't imagine trying to use the pills to taper with. I'm sure plenty have had success with them and hopefully they will chime in soon.

    Otherwise I would try to get suboxone strips.
    I agree they would be easier to cut down if she doesn't react to the Naloxone in it. Suboxone can make for nasty headaches.

    Also, does Judy have 2 mg pills or a different mg strength? Think we need clarity on that.

  8. #38
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    The Suboxone gave me headaches so I switched to Subutex , I have the 2 mg pills.

  9. #39
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    Today is another day and again I feel like I'm having withdrawls, I'm shaky, my hold body feels achy, I just don't know what I'm doing wrong? I'm was joat 4.5 mg off Subutex and I stayed at that for a week , and then I went down to 4 .25 mg Sunday. yesterday I felt ok but today I feel bad again. I'm trying to measure the pills the best I can but I don't if I am. My doctor is no help because he does not want me to taper down because he said I was on methadone pills for twenty years. I'm just lost at what is wrong and what to do? Did I taper off too fast or I'm I still taking too much Subutex? I know people said they didn't feel better until they were down to 1-2mg of Subutex

  10. #40
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    Should I go back up to 6mg

  11. #41
    Wavision is offline Member
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    Judy

    Sorry, I don't know what to tell you. Hopefully someone with more experience or Randy will pop in here to help.

    How bad are you feeling? In complete withdrawal?

    Is it constant? Worse after or before you dose?

    Exactly what symptoms do you have?

  12. #42
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    I'm shaky and feel anxious just all over bad i tapered down to 4.5 mg from being at 6 mg it's hard to get the exact 4.5 mg I think I should go back to 6 mg even though I was on 6 mg for a week

  13. #43
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Hi Judy,

    When you reduced to 4.5 and were there for a week, were you completely stable before you attempted to reduce again to 4.25? I would NOT go back up to 6mg after you've been at the lower dose for nearly ten days now. What to do now will depend on how you felt after being at the 4.5 for a week. Let us know and I'll be back to check on you.

    Peace,

    Cat

  14. #44
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Judy. I'd agree with Cat. I wouldn't go back up to 6mg. Make sure you're completely stable before you drop in doseage. And like wav said in a previous post you don't always have to reduce by the 25% if you feel like taking a slower drop that's fine. It's a marathon not a sprint. The end result is the goal, forward progress. I know for me when I was tapering and I would make a drop I found a lot of it to be mental. I came accustomed to expecting a dose at a certain time and if I messed with that my body tricked my mind to believing I needed it. Which on the high dose of subs I was on was definitely not the case. I had the hardest time going from 16mg to 12mg. But looking back there is no way I was in w/d. I was just used to taking 2 full 8mg strips.

    If you need to stay at 4.5 do it. Drop when you're ready.

    We're here for you
    Beef

  15. #45
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    Ok thank you it's hard trying to get at 4.5 and splitting them in 2 doses since they are small pills, should I take 2.5 at one time and 2 mg later in the day? I know someone told me earlier to try and spilt them evenly so that is what I was trying to do. Thank you guys so much I still kind of lost because I'm still sick after 5 months of being off of methadone and being on subutex
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  16. #46
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    Sorry I made a mistake I was at 6 for 10 days and than went down to 4.5 and have been on that for two days should I go back up to 6?

  17. #47
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy3755 View Post
    Ok thank you it's hard trying to get at 4.5 and splitting them in 2 doses since they are small pills, should I take 2.5 at one time and 2 mg later in the day? I know someone told me earlier to try and spilt them evenly so that is what I was trying to do. Thank you guys so much I still kind of lost because I'm still sick after 5 months of being off of methadone and being on subutex
    Because you have 2mg pills, here's what I think is the best way to divide your dose. Based on 4.5mg/day where you are right now you'll need 2.25 in the morning and 2.25mg 8-10 hours later. Take one of the tablets and use the back of a spoon to crush it. Divide that pile into four equal piles so that each pile is .5 (1/2) mg. Now take each pile and divide that again into 2 equal piles. Each pile will then be .25mg. I'd carefully wrap each little pile into a small piece of foil and use a Sharpie to mark it .25mg. Until you are ready to reduce again, you'll just take one of foil packs and one full tablet each time you dose. Once you divide it like this you'll have enough for four days.

    Use a business card or a stiff piece of paper and fold it length wise. Scoop up the powder onto the card and pour it under your tongue.

    Give this method a try because it's one of the best ways to get your dose accurate. Just be sure to carefully mark every little pack of powder you've measured and saved so you'll always know how much is in there. This probably sounds complicated but it's really not. If you make packages of 1/4mg you'll easily be able to measure out your correct dose no matter where you're at. When you're ready to reduce again and if you need help to get the right dose, just ask and either I or someone else will come along to help.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  18. #48
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    That is what I've been doing i don't know how accurate they are because I think I lose some when I transfer the powder to my tongue but I'm doing the best I can and I know the more I taper the harder it's going to be to divide the pills. I think I'm going to stay at 4.5mg for a couple of weeks to see how I feel and then I will start to taper more. I hope I feel better when I get down to 2mg that is when people say they feel the best . Again thank you for listening I have no one else to talk to about this.
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  19. #49
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy3755 View Post
    That is what I've been doing i don't know how accurate they are because I think I lose some when I transfer the powder to my tongue but I'm doing the best I can and I know the more I taper the harder it's going to be to divide the pills. I think I'm going to stay at 4.5mg for a couple of weeks to see how I feel and then I will start to taper more. I hope I feel better when I get down to 2mg that is when people say they feel the best . Again thank you for listening I have no one else to talk to about this.
    You said TO your tongue. You're putting it UNDER your tongue and allowing it to dissolve completely, right? Don't drink or eat anything for at 15-20 minutes. This is the only way to get the full effect. If you're crushing and dividing, I'm sure that your doses are just fine. Yes, stay at the 4.5mg/day until you are completely stable.

    Peace,

    Cat

  20. #50
    Wavision is offline Member
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    As cat mentioned, you must be dumping the powder under your tongue and let it dissolve for as long as you can.

    I personally would usually try to keep it under my tongue for 30 minutes or more. Also, as cat mentioned, do not drink or eat for 20 minutes after.

    If you are storing the powder in foil, then the foil should have a crease from the fold in it. You should be able to let the powder slide down the fold/crease right under your tongue. Just do it in a mirror.
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  21. #51
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    Yes I am putting under my tongue . I don't if I just one of the people that Subutex just doesn't agree with me I just seem to be having a hard time feeling even ok. My husband says it's because I took methadone for so long and 5 months is not long enough, that my body and my mind is going to take at least a year before I stop having withdrawls. Again thank you

  22. #52
    David256 is offline Member
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    Default Stabilizing

    Quote Originally Posted by Judy3755 View Post
    That is what I've been doing i don't know how accurate they are because I think I lose some when I transfer the powder to my tongue but I'm doing the best I can
    Hi Judy,
    I've read your thread and it really seems like you're having a rough time stabilizing. You are still just taking subutex correct? No more methadone or adding or stopping or reducing any other major medications? No reduction of the gabapentin or Ambien or going cold turkey on anything else?

    Getting the exact dosage shouldn't put you in traction, don't worry too closely on those measurements, but get as close as you can. Based on crushing up your pills, the blood level of the drug will even out within the 72 hour half-life of the drug.

    I'd surmise that you never stabilized to begin with, but 'transitioning' from methadone to suboxone shouldn't be your issue now. I think we're all trying to evaluate things based on a limited set of understanding of your exact history and background. You should feel reasonably fine on that dose of buprenorphine and if you're feeling REALLY awful I have a hard time seeing that as opiate withdrawal. What I would usually do with clients is the way they do with pain scales.
    Anxiety: Level 1-10, 10 being worst full blown panic attack
    Restlessness: Level 1-10
    and do that with each symptom.
    Start a journal, or better yet, use this thread as your daily journal. Match up your symptoms to drug intake changes, etc. That's what I did , and many others have. It helps, and it helps us help you!

    We're thinking of you!
    -David
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  23. #53
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hello Judy I'm sorry your having to go through all this..
    Can you give us an update on your symptoms. I know for me it took a long time to feel OK at best I abused drugs for many many years we didn't get here in one day so it takes time for our bodies and brain to heal. There's no magical pill to take the withdrawals away believe me I've searched everywhere. This is a process one I will never forget I can promise you that it's doable if you want it more than anything for yourself. I'm now 17months clean was it easy... nope but worth every minute to get where I am at Today. We are all here to support you...

  24. #54
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    A differential diagnosis? Is it possible that Judy's body is reacting to bupe? The doctors don't like to believe this, but I can assure you that it made me very sick at 2mgs only! I have narrowed it down to mast cell degranulation which is related to histamine, tryptase and/or prostaglandin issues. I'm still studying up. Sorry I keep repeating myself on posts, but this is a real possibility that people don't factor in - no thanks to doctors.

    Opiods are known to cause histamine problems. I know it doesn't make sense that she could take methadone, but our bodies are very complex. There maybe something in the sub that doesn't agree with her causing an immune system reaction. There is also the cumulative effect. When I first started Suboxone, I was okay for the first few months, except for naloxone headaches, but my health was deteriorating overall. I didn't make the connection. When I switched to 2mgs Subutex, I was practically bedridden with joint pain, fatigue, and my breast were so very sore (prostaglandins I think). It's so complex. Taking more sub made things worse. I stopped Subutex and within 2 days felt relief. However, I'm still recovering from poisoning my body for a year.

    The fact that Judy and I both got headaches from Suboxone makes me wonder all the more. More importantly, we all manifest inflammation differently. Yours could be fatigue, stomach issues, nerves, anxiety, pain, itching, you name it. It varies.

    During allergy season, NOW, symptoms appear worse because our histamine bucket is overloaded. This is why we are inconsistent at tolerating the same things at different times which confuses us all the more.

    High histamine food is also a contributor. I've always felt my best when super skinny. I thought it was because I looked better. Nope, it's because I was eating less of histamine inflammatory foods.

    I am not saying this is her problem. Its just something to consider.

  25. #55
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    Thank you , my worst symptoms I have is the anixety and shakes which start an hour after I wake up and go through the entire day, which I never had before. I take a half a clonazepam in the morning and a half at night , which does nothing but for me but I don't want to take anymore.And some days my body feels like it aches like I am detoxing , I feel so bad I tell my husband and daughter I can't take it anymore . Today is not so bad but it seems I only have ok days once in a great while. Thanks for listening !!!

  26. #56
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    I just took 2.25mg of Subutex 2 hours ago and I started having bad anixety and shaking . I was ok today but this morning the same thing happened, I took 2.25mg and 2 hours after I took the subutex I started having bad anixety and shaking.

  27. #57
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    Today is another the and the same thing is happening just feel like my nerves can jump out of my skin and over all I feel bad. It's 183 days and I feel only a little better , it's still hard to work but I try to push threw. I guess everyday is suppose to be a little better?

  28. #58
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    So you get symptoms AFTER you take the Subutex? Did you read my post #54?
    Last edited by Anonymous; 04-05-2018 at 03:16 PM.

  29. #59
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    To clarify, I'm not saying you have a disease. The link just shows how mast cell degranulation can manifest and affect nerves and anxiety. Opiods can trigger mast cells.

  30. #60
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    I don't know what it is I don't feel good everyday the anixety is so bad and the shaking is so bad . After reading a lot of posts I think I never started taking the Subutex correctly my doctor gave it to me before I was that sick could it just kept following me every time I tapered down on the Subutex? And if so is there anything I can do at this point?

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