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I'm having the worse time I'm so sick
  1. #91
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    Thank you I found it.

  2. #92
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    If it were me, I would try to get to 3 mg in the next week or so because it's an easy 1 & 1/2 pill dosing. Hold there until you're completely stable, then make the next drop.

    Anyone like to weigh in?

    The caveat would be if you never stabilize. That's when I'd be looking at those other possibilities, e.g. too high a dose, allergic reaction, etc..

  3. #93
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Do it once do it correctly follow the plan that has worked for countless others...

  4. #94
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    I'm following the taper plan exactly as I was told

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy3755 View Post
    I'm following the taper plan exactly as I was told
    How's that working out for you?

  6. #96
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Keep up the good work Judy. You are right where you are supposed to be. Everything you are going through and feeling is all normal part of the process. Stay the course...

  7. #97
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    So will you now pay money to have the 3.33 compounded like you mentioned earlier at the suggestion of your doctor; since you were having so much trouble crushing and dividing the pills to get .333?

  8. #98
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    Thank you!!
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  9. #99
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    Yes I am,,,,
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  10. #100
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hey 1232 why don't you start a thread so we can follow your journey?
    If going to a compound pharmacy helps her to get an accurate dose than congratulations to Judy I know for me I chase my recovery I will go to any lengths to stay clean.
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  11. #101
    David256 is offline Member
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    Judy, you sound better than even a week ago. From my last post I felt too, differential diag. And thought about your case more. Taking sedative-hypnotics like Ambien and clonzapam with that high of a dose of Suboxone...sorry Subutex too, can cause many people to have a real bad combination reaction. Normally benzodiazepines (clonaz in your situation and even zolpidem/ambien is kind of a benzo-acting drug) mixed with any opiate is a no-no, as it depresses the central nervous system in bad ways amongst other yucky ways, but in lower doses is tolerable for most people.

    I recall being on higher doses of clonaz (1mg) and 2-4mg of Suboxone and when I took them within an hour of one another I felt awful.

    Just a thought.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 04-12-2018 at 02:21 AM.
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  12. #102
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Hi Judy,

    I was thinking much the same as David that MAYBE it's a reaction to the combo of drugs you are taking. There's no possible way, I think that you wouldn't be stable after being at the same consistent dose for ten days. Unfortunately, subs can make it easier to taper than short acting opiates and is certainly less painful than enduring a cold turkey detox but it's not without symptoms especially after a drop.

    One of the things that I noticed (and so have many others) is that all of our aches and pains are amplified while we are tapering or detoxing. We notice EVERYTHING! This is not making light of your discomfort, I know it's real. For your mental health through this, try to separate what might be an ordinary ache/pain from what may be related to your taper. Not necessarily everything is related to the subs.

    It's true that you will probably feel better when you get your dose down but you can't rush things in order to get there so put that out of your mind. When you're ready to reduce again maybe you should try by a lesser percentage. If you're at 3.33 now a 25% reduction would put you around 2.5mg/day (sorry not going to bother doing the exact math right now) so maybe instead make a smaller reduction and make your new dose 2.75. Yes. It'll make your taper last a longer period of time but so what? There's nothing wrong with going slower so long as you continue to move in the right direction.

    I know it doesn't feel like it, but you're doing great!

    Peace,

    Cat
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  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lvg nghtmare View Post
    Hey 1232 why don't you start a thread so we can follow your journey?
    If going to a compound pharmacy helps her to get an accurate dose than congratulations to Judy I know for me I chase my recovery I will go to any lengths to stay clean.
    I've been reading her thread. She asked several times about being sick and struggling with doses. She also asked about compounding which I support too, and wanted to make sure she was going to go to the trouble and prepared to pay.

    However, and since she was struggling so much, I tried to offer a simple and practical solution of getting her to the handy dandy 3 mgs, only a .333 mg drop, which is an even 1 1/2 pills. And, then the next 25% drop would be 2.25 - 1 1/4 pill. I've also had the Subutex pills and they are easy to break in half. No doubt the original taper plan had the strips in mind.

    Completely agree with Cats new post. But, I would try to stablize at 3 mg, you're at 3.33, for the convenience as mentioned.
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  14. #104
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    That is what my doctor did she did a lesser percentage drop and sent the prescription to the compound pharmacy so at least I know the percentage will be correct because I was having a hard time getting them correct. You are so right because I feel every thing that is wrong with me now and I feel it stronger. I only take a half of the clonazepam 0.25mg if I need it, but if you think it could be causing a bad reaction with the Subutex I am going stop taking them I don't think they help me anyway. The ambien is harder because I have such a hard time sleeping but I'm going to try to take less of it. I feel like I am doing better but I said that and felt that before then I felt worse so I'm hoping that being at a lesser dose of Subutex is helping . I really want to get to the 2mg by May . Thank you all so much for your help I don't know where I would be with out your advice and your help .

  15. #105
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    Can't sleep! I've been so miserable the last 5 months since I stopped taking methadone and started Subutex that I thought sleeping was the least of my problems even with taking ambien I still can't sleep good. Does anyone have any suggestions besides more sleeping pills? I know I shouldn't complain I should be grateful I sleep at all. Thank you
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  16. #106
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy3755 View Post
    Can't sleep! I've been so miserable the last 5 months since I stopped taking methadone and started Subutex that I thought sleeping was the least of my problems even with taking ambien I still can't sleep good. Does anyone have any suggestions besides more sleeping pills? I know I shouldn't complain I should be grateful I sleep at all. Thank you
    I wish there was something that I could tell you would work and so does everyone else but the only thing that works is time. You've made the switch from methadone and the fact that you were able to do that is a victory in itself. Methadone is horrible and the wait and induction is scary and long but you did it. PLUS you are on an acceptable amount of sub at this point. The sleep thing is just more fall out from this entire process. Oh how I know how frustrating it is but it will get better. Somehow, some way you just have to tough it out. The very best thing you can do is to work on not allowing it to frustrate you. Don't fight with your bed because it's not going to help and instead will put you in a foul mood. If you have trouble falling asleep, give it 20 minutes and if you're still wakeful, get up. If you wake up in the middle of the night, resist looking at the clock and counting. Counting how long you've slept and how long it is before you have to get up. Instead, get out of bed and do something for a bit. Watch TV or read or do exactly what you did. Come on here and read and post. Taking your mind off of it may relax you some and make you sleepy enough to be able to go back to sleep.

    You've come so far and have managed so much. This is getting to the last of it and you'll never have to endure this again.

    Peace,

    Cat

  17. #107
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    What a great post by Cat. And wow Judy, she's right, you have done an amazing job getting this far. I've never taken methadone, but everything I've read about it makes me truly respect how far you've come.

    Sleep issues are definitely sounding more and more like withdrawal. Given that, do people think she should stay at her current "low enough" dose 3.3 and get completely stable and not rush it, or drop again? What I'm asking is, will it matter? Should she just get it over with, keep dropping, and get to 2 mgs and hold?

    I suppose mentally, she may need a break - and some sleep. So if she does get stable at 3.3, maybe she should hang out there for a while to rest?

    Judy what do you think you want to do?

    I know 2 mgs is the goal, but everyone's sweet spot could be different and 2 is only a guide. I think Cat alluded to this already about how three was getting in the low range.

    Just thinking out loud at all options to help because I know you're suffering.
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  18. #108
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hello Judy I'm sorry your having to go through all this >>>> but Cat's words are so true. It takes time don't fight it get up occupy your mind positive thoughts go along way I know I stayed in that negative mind frame for way to long and suffered unnecessarily for it. What you are going through and feeling is all normal I promise. Read and post here whine and complain about it we are here for you we have or I have been there and Judy it gets better we get better. I know your saying and thinking that I have no clue how you feel I do its awful I know but you will never forget this journey you are on getting clean and when you do you can be here for someone else going through it. Proud of you...
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  19. #109
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    I typed a long response but I don't think it went through.I having such a bad day again the shaking and my nerves are so bad. I wasn't going to stay at work but I read your posts and decided to stick it at. First of all if it wasn't for all the information you guys give me I think I would be going to the hospital everyday thinking something was wrong with me. The encouraging words you all give me I could never thank you enough for. It doesn't feel like this is ever going to get better but you all say it will and I'm starting believe it.For some reason my body feels ok for a couple days and it's bad again. I'm hoping the good days become more. My husband says 20 years of methadone won't be cured in 5 months, thank all of you.

  20. #110
    GoodDaysAhead is offline Member
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    Judy,

    I have been exactly where you are. Like you, I went from Methadone to Sub and had a very difficult time with the switch. The first time I made the switch years ago, I still wasn’t stable even on 12mgs of Sub. I got relief for a little while and within a few hours I’d be getting withdrawal symptoms so I ended up back on Methadone. Almost 2 years ago I made the decision to quit and went back to Sub a few months to taper before jumping and noticed the same thing happened as the first time I switched but still tapered the best I could and made the jump. There are some people who can’t seem to stabilize on Sub once they have made the switch from long term Methadone use. You’re doing well and if you can get in a mindset where you know and expect some anxiety, restlessness and some sleep issues, then it will be much more manageable. Just keep with your taper and once you are off Sub and as your brains receptors begin to heal, you’ll be feeling better and better. In time, this will all be but a memory.

  21. #111
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    Thank you. I've been on Subutex for now 6 months now and plan on tapering down to the lowest I can go before stopping completely( which could be a couple months)and planned on staying on the lowest dose for a couple months before stopping the Subutex ( I wanted to give my body and mind a break for a few months) but it sounds like I shouldn't do that since I'm having such a hard time? Did you feel better on the subs the lower your dose went?
    Last edited by Anonymous; 04-13-2018 at 03:21 PM.

  22. #112
    GoodDaysAhead is offline Member
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    Even if your system can’t stabilize on sub, It definitely is recommended to taper as low as possible before jumping. It does soften the landing when you finally jump. Even those who fully stabilize before lowering their dose again do feel some discomfort when they get to a low dose. This is unfortunately the case with drugs that cause withdrawal. Since you have a difficult time going from Methadone to sub, and are already feeling some withdrawals, it will slowly get a little harder with every drop. But it’s doable, and not only that, you’ll come out the other side of this stronger then you could ever imagine.
    I would start taking vitamins and getting into a regular exercise routine...not wait until you are compete with the taper.

    The Thomas Recipe
    https://forum.drugs.com/featured-con...ent-35169.html

    Starting now will help with endorphin production and make you feel better with the discomfort feelings while tapering. Remember, anything worth doing is usually difficult. Just stick with it, you’ll get through this and will have a bright future to look forward to free from all of this. All this work will pay off. You’ll be stronger and you’ll have a bright future without this stress of sub and Methadone weighing you down. It’s worth it. You’re worth it.
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  23. #113
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    Why can I feel good for a couple days and then feel so bad again like today after feeling good ?

  24. #114
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    I think I've different information I thought by the time I got to 2mg of the Subutex I would feel somewhat better but I guess that is not the case after all , today has been one of the worst days that I've felt in a long time so I'm not looking forward to another day like this

  25. #115
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    I don't feel like I can make it today has been so bad and hard

  26. #116
    GoodDaysAhead is offline Member
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    Not sure why there at certain times you feel better. You would feel better for a time after you take your dose of sub, but other than if you’re taking comfort meds, not sure why this would be happening. You’ve already come down quite a bit since your taper and are doing well and other than going back to Methadone (which would be the worst thing you would want to do), there’s nowhere to go but forward. You have to just push through the discomfort and keep your eye on the prize....a life free from all this. If you do this right, have perseverance, then you’ll only have to do this once and can look forward to a fulfilling life with all this in the rear view mirror. Try some light cardio tonight for no less than 20 mins and see how you feel. Regular exercise will make you feel better. Lvg will probably chime in at some point..she is very knowledgeable on the withdrawal process as well. You’re doing great and will get through this. Exercise and vitamins (DLPA, L-tyrosine etc) work wonders. Have a good weekend and just keep at it.
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  27. #117
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Judy,

    It's not surprising that you feel better for a couple of days and then not. It's simply your body adjusting to the lower dose of subs. Remember, the half life is long so you''ll probably still feel OK for a day or two after a drop but then a couple of harder days until you stabilize. This is what makes tapering so darn hard! Just when you adjust and feel OK, it's time to reduce again. This seems to be unusually hard on you but not surprising. Maybe you should tough out the next day or two and hopefully you'll feel better. Don't rush to make another reduction but stay put right there and catch your breath. After a week or so, make a smaller reduction so it's not so much of a shock to your body.

    I think this is worth a try. What do you think?

    Peace,

    Cat
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  28. #118
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    I just received my Subutex from the compound pharmacy and was prescribed 1.6 mg twice a day which would be 3.2 mg and I have been taking 3.3 mg a day will that 1mg. make a difference?

  29. #119
    Judy3755 is offline Member
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    I just got my new prescription,my doctor prescribed me 3.2mg and I have been taking 3.3 mg , I've been taking 3.3 for 5 days tonight I took 1.6 because that's what it's split in half. My doctor gave me two weeks of the 3.2 mg and my next taper is 2.4 mg does that sound right? Thank you for all your help and me bothering you

  30. #120
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    I doubt .1 mg is going to make a difference.

    I too think you need to slow down and stabilize before dropping. You are no longer in that ridiculously high range you were taking, so its a different conversation now. And really, what's the rush and a few more weeks or months if it makes it smoother for you.

    Again, if you never stabilize at one dose, then something is still not right. I don't mean feel awesome because that's going to take a while after drugs, I just mean stabilize.
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