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Maybe someone can explain what is happening currently with my withdrawals.
  1. #1
    Wayside1 is offline New Member
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    Default Maybe someone can explain what is happening currently with my withdrawals.

    So i should lay it all out there so i can get the most correct feedback possible.

    Iv been on Methadone for about 6 years. At my highest point i was doing 100mg a day. The last 4-5 months i was tapering and got down to 15-25mg a day.

    A month ago i took time off work for 3 weeks to go through withdrawals. I ordered some Kratom to help me cope.

    The first week i felt like horrible and Kratom wasnt helping me much. I would take 2 teaspoons and my withdrawals would maybe go away 50% for about an hour or two before coming right back so i was taking 2 teaspoons of Kratom 3x a day for about a week. After the first week i started cutting down on the Kratom to 2 teaspoons twice a day. It would help me a bit and give me some breathing room but majority of the day i was still going through Methadone withdrawals. After the third week i could feel the methadone withdrawals going away so i started cutting down on Kratom aswell to 3 teaspoons and i felt great. After a few days i cut down to 2 and 1/4th teaspoons and i still felt fine for 2 days.

    Then roughly 26 days in my withdrawals started getting worse again. I assumed this had to do with the fact that i was cutting down on my Kratom use pretty quickly so i decided to go back up to 3 teaspoons per day but this has not helped me. Every day i can feel my withdrawals getting worse even though i maintained 3 teaspoons of Kratom and currently at day 31 the withdrawals seem to be coming back stronger.



    So i really dont understand what is going on. I assumed i was past the methadone withdrawals since i started feeling better but i also have kept a consistent use of Kratom and yet the withdrawals are getting noticeably worse each day. This morning was especially bad and i took my 1 1/2 teaspoon of Kratom (Then later after work i take another 1 1/2 teaspoon) but i still dont feel normal.




    Vitamins iv been taking

    Natracet
    Magnesium
    Multi Vitamin
    Ibuprofen
    L-Tyrosine
    B-6 Vitamin
    Agmatine

  2. #2
    Wayside1 is offline New Member
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    No one knows??

    I might just try and get back on methadone 5mg and hold that for a while and then taper. It seems more manageable then whatever im going through right now (if this is the Kratoms fault).
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  3. #3
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayside1 View Post
    No one knows??

    I might just try and get back on methadone 5mg and hold that for a while and then taper. It seems more manageable then whatever im going through right now (if this is the Kratoms fault).
    I would venture to say that this very well may be Kratom withdrawal. it's odd that you were finally dong better from the Methadone jump only to be plagued with a new set of withdrawal symptoms and still getting worse. You've got a month in from stopping the Methadone. I sure would hate for you to lose that. I know that jumping from meth is brutal. I'd think long and hard before taking it ever again.

    As far as the Kratom goes, the symptoms are the same as any other chemical that attaches to our mu receptors. One of the bigger problems with Kratom is that there is no government control and so the strength and efficacy of it varies not only from strain to strain but from variances within the same strain. This makes it almost impossible to do a regimented taper. You never really know how much you're getting. Ya know?

    I guess if there's good news, it's that the half life of Kratom is pretty short. About the same as short acting opiates, 2-4 hours. Unfortunately, even the half life changes from strain to strain and even from plant to plant.

    If it were me, I think I'd get rid of the Kratom and see if the worst is behind you in 5-7 days, the same as if you'd jumped from an ordinary opiate. If you spend most of the day sick anyway, I guess I'd prefer to jump in, get good and sick with the hope that I could be better in about a week. The other option would be to keep doing what you're doing by lowering the amount of Kratom you're taking but I think BECAUSE the half life can be as short as 2 hours and the strength is really unknown, you won't know if you've really reduced, reduced too much, or not enough. An impossible situation.

    Keep posting. I'm sorry that your first post got by most of us and hope that you check in again.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  4. #4
    Wayside1 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catrina View Post
    I would venture to say that this very well may be Kratom withdrawal. it's odd that you were finally dong better from the Methadone jump only to be plagued with a new set of withdrawal symptoms and still getting worse. You've got a month in from stopping the Methadone. I sure would hate for you to lose that. I know that jumping from meth is brutal. I'd think long and hard before taking it ever again.

    As far as the Kratom goes, the symptoms are the same as any other chemical that attaches to our mu receptors. One of the bigger problems with Kratom is that there is no government control and so the strength and efficacy of it varies not only from strain to strain but from variances within the same strain. This makes it almost impossible to do a regimented taper. You never really know how much you're getting. Ya know?

    I guess if there's good news, it's that the half life of Kratom is pretty short. About the same as short acting opiates, 2-4 hours. Unfortunately, even the half life changes from strain to strain and even from plant to plant.

    If it were me, I think I'd get rid of the Kratom and see if the worst is behind you in 5-7 days, the same as if you'd jumped from an ordinary opiate. If you spend most of the day sick anyway, I guess I'd prefer to jump in, get good and sick with the hope that I could be better in about a week. The other option would be to keep doing what you're doing by lowering the amount of Kratom you're taking but I think BECAUSE the half life can be as short as 2 hours and the strength is really unknown, you won't know if you've really reduced, reduced too much, or not enough. An impossible situation.

    Keep posting. I'm sorry that your first post got by most of us and hope that you check in again.

    Peace,

    Cat
    I agree i think its the kratom but some of it is just not adding up to me. Like why when i take more kratom its not making me feel better all that much. Today i took a extra teaspoon and right now i still feel bad just the same as yesterday. I would imagine if kratom was the only issue here then taking more would settle it.

    Its the same batch from 3 weeks ago so i kinda dont think that its just the kratom varying in strength.

    The last thing i want to do is go back on dones but going cold turkey is not really n option since i cant get more time off work and i work a fast paced physical job with lots of interaction with different companies.

    But at the same time i dont think going on a high kratom dose i cant seem to taper from is better then a low done dose i can manage.

    I guess il try to rough it out a few more days and see if it becomes manageable before resorting to going back on dones.
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  5. #5
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Hmmmm. What symptoms are now experiencing and how bad is each of them. Can you tell me your symptoms and score each (1 being minimal and 5 being off the charts)?

    You jumped from 15-25mg/ done about a month ago. That's still a fairly hefty dose and after having been on it for six years (I think I remember that?) it's more than likely that you're still symptomatic. There are ups and downs for a long time when some days are better than others. I'm surprised that Kratom helped at all, frankly. The only other thing I can think of is that I've read that tolerance to Kratom increases rapidly so maybe that has happened and by trying to make reductions, it's compounding things? I just don't know but maybe this has something to do with it.

    I'm going to post on Randy's thread and ask that he come here to take a look at your posts to see if he has any ideas. So, stand by. It may take him a day or two before he checks in again but he will and I know he'll have some insight and advice for you.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  6. #6
    Wayside1 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catrina View Post
    Hmmmm. What symptoms are now experiencing and how bad is each of them. Can you tell me your symptoms and score each (1 being minimal and 5 being off the charts)?

    You jumped from 15-25mg/ done about a month ago. That's still a fairly hefty dose and after having been on it for six years (I think I remember that?) it's more than likely that you're still symptomatic. There are ups and downs for a long time when some days are better than others. I'm surprised that Kratom helped at all, frankly. The only other thing I can think of is that I've read that tolerance to Kratom increases rapidly so maybe that has happened and by trying to make reductions, it's compounding things? I just don't know but maybe this has something to do with it.

    I'm going to post on Randy's thread and ask that he come here to take a look at your posts to see if he has any ideas. So, stand by. It may take him a day or two before he checks in again but he will and I know he'll have some insight and advice for you.

    Peace,

    Cat
    If the first 2 weeks were a 5 then id say currently its somewhere around 2-3. The restless legs are gone but im still experiencing some sweating, prickly needle feeling around my body, hot flashes, and lack of energy. Although my job is physical so towards the end of work the symptoms tend to get worse but i think thats to be expected.

    Today i did wake up and not feel worse. Perhaps id go as far as to say that i woke up feeling slightly better then the day before. Which im really happy about because my current goal is just being able to maintain the same dose of Kratom and go through work without withdrawals and then il focus on cutting down.

    Is it possible that the Kratom prolonged the methadone withdrawals and i might still be suffering from the end stages of methadone withdrawal?? Cause i would actually be pretty happy if thats the case.
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  7. #7
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayside1 View Post
    If the first 2 weeks were a 5 then id say currently its somewhere around 2-3. The restless legs are gone but im still experiencing some sweating, prickly needle feeling around my body, hot flashes, and lack of energy. Although my job is physical so towards the end of work the symptoms tend to get worse but i think thats to be expected.

    Today i did wake up and not feel worse. Perhaps id go as far as to say that i woke up feeling slightly better then the day before. Which im really happy about because my current goal is just being able to maintain the same dose of Kratom and go through work without withdrawals and then il focus on cutting down.

    Is it possible that the Kratom prolonged the methadone withdrawals and i might still be suffering from the end stages of methadone withdrawal?? Cause i would actually be pretty happy if thats the case.
    Good Morning,

    So based upon your update that your symptoms have decreased since two weeks ago, you are improving and that's good. I don't think there's any question that at least a part of how you're feeling is still related to the methadone. I've never used methadone, but I've been around here long enough to have read and followed others as they detox and recover from it. I have cold turkeyed countless times from all of the short acting opiates. My daily dose was pretty hefty but from what I understand, still can't be compared to detoxing from methadone. For me, a month out from my detox I still had some minor symptoms. Physically, nothing compared to the first week but I would still have occasional stomach issues and sleep still wasn't great but beginning to get better at that point. My energy levels, while improving, still weren't where I wanted them to be and oh yeah, the hot/cold thing was still there but not constantly and mostly at night.

    Given the comparison, I would guess that nothing you are feeling wouldn't be expected. Your continued use of Kratom is a little concerning for me though. Please be careful with it and begin to do your best to reduce your dose so that you can leave that behind. I have followed others who had to detox from Kratom and it can be a bear. I would hate to see you have yet something else that you're going to have to detox now that you're so close to having put the methadone nightmare behind you. I did leave Randy a message asking that he drop in here and give you his opinion so please watch for him.

    Keep updating. You're doing great!

    Peace,

    Cat
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  8. #8
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayside1 View Post
    If the first 2 weeks were a 5 then id say currently its somewhere around 2-3. The restless legs are gone but im still experiencing some sweating, prickly needle feeling around my body, hot flashes, and lack of energy. Although my job is physical so towards the end of work the symptoms tend to get worse but i think thats to be expected.

    Today i did wake up and not feel worse. Perhaps id go as far as to say that i woke up feeling slightly better then the day before. Which im really happy about because my current goal is just being able to maintain the same dose of Kratom and go through work without withdrawals and then il focus on cutting down.

    Is it possible that the Kratom prolonged the methadone withdrawals and i might still be suffering from the end stages of methadone withdrawal?? Cause i would actually be pretty happy if thats the case.

    Hi Wayside -

    Cat kindly asked me to look at your thread and offer some advice up to you. She knows I was a long time methadone user/abuser and I was also on that garbage called Kratom. I too was on methadone for years and my dose got over 200mgs per day. And when not on methadone or other opiates I would take anything to make the wd's go away. I took kratom, lyrica, weed, and anything else I could get my hands on including a host of benzo's. And all of that only prolongs the wd's. Then you have wd symptoms from those when stopping. It's a no win situation as we all know.

    Cat is exactly right, you're still in methadone wd's and the kratom is just covering it up. Methadone is a very strong drug and also has a very long half life so it remains in your system quite some time. And because you were taking it for YEARS you had quite a bulid up left in your system. It eventually dissipates, but due to the long half life it takes a while. And that's why you are feeling the way you do.

    The answer to feeling better is STOPPING the Kratom and allowing some time to pass so all of the methadone leaves your system. If you continue taking the Kratom eventually the methadone wd's will end and you'll be stuck dealing with Kratom wd's. So you're actually EXTENDING your misery right now with the Kratom, and not helping the matter at all.

    So if I were you I would just get rid off all the Kratom you have and don't get more. Allow more time to pass and treat your symptoms as best you can with OTC meds, supplements and vitamins. Your doctor may prescribe you some Clonidine or Gabapentin to help with some of the symptoms if they know what's up. Drinking LOTS of fluids will help flush the methadone out faster and keep you hydrated. Eat and/or drink plenty of protein for energy. And try not to sit aorund watching the clock. Get out of the house and go for a walk will really make a difference. Vitamins like B6, B12, or B Complex can help too. For any pain issues try Aleve, Motrin, or perhaps Tylenol, but not too many.

    I hope this helps a little. And I hope you begin feeling better real soon.

    Randy
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  9. #9
    Wayside1 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy35 View Post
    Hi Wayside -

    Cat kindly asked me to look at your thread and offer some advice up to you. She knows I was a long time methadone user/abuser and I was also on that garbage called Kratom. I too was on methadone for years and my dose got over 200mgs per day. And when not on methadone or other opiates I would take anything to make the wd's go away. I took kratom, lyrica, weed, and anything else I could get my hands on including a host of benzo's. And all of that only prolongs the wd's. Then you have wd symptoms from those when stopping. It's a no win situation as we all know.

    Cat is exactly right, you're still in methadone wd's and the kratom is just covering it up. Methadone is a very strong drug and also has a very long half life so it remains in your system quite some time. And because you were taking it for YEARS you had quite a bulid up left in your system. It eventually dissipates, but due to the long half life it takes a while. And that's why you are feeling the way you do.

    The answer to feeling better is STOPPING the Kratom and allowing some time to pass so all of the methadone leaves your system. If you continue taking the Kratom eventually the methadone wd's will end and you'll be stuck dealing with Kratom wd's. So you're actually EXTENDING your misery right now with the Kratom, and not helping the matter at all.

    So if I were you I would just get rid off all the Kratom you have and don't get more. Allow more time to pass and treat your symptoms as best you can with OTC meds, supplements and vitamins. Your doctor may prescribe you some Clonidine or Gabapentin to help with some of the symptoms if they know what's up. Drinking LOTS of fluids will help flush the methadone out faster and keep you hydrated. Eat and/or drink plenty of protein for energy. And try not to sit aorund watching the clock. Get out of the house and go for a walk will really make a difference. Vitamins like B6, B12, or B Complex can help too. For any pain issues try Aleve, Motrin, or perhaps Tylenol, but not too many.

    I hope this helps a little. And I hope you begin feeling better real soon.

    Randy
    Thanks. I did think it could still be the methadone even though i started feeling better and then worse simply because even the Kratom doesnt help all that much.

    I cant just stop cold turkey because im not going to be able to get more work off and its not a job one can rough through during withdrawals.

    Good news i do feel a bit better again this morning for what that is worth.

    I dont mind prolonging it because i just need to be good enough to get through work and the rest il deal with. And i really have no urge to get high or anything like that which makes tapering for me quiet a bit easier then it used to be.
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  10. #10
    Wayside1 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catrina View Post
    Good Morning,

    So based upon your update that your symptoms have decreased since two weeks ago, you are improving and that's good. I don't think there's any question that at least a part of how you're feeling is still related to the methadone. I've never used methadone, but I've been around here long enough to have read and followed others as they detox and recover from it. I have cold turkeyed countless times from all of the short acting opiates. My daily dose was pretty hefty but from what I understand, still can't be compared to detoxing from methadone. For me, a month out from my detox I still had some minor symptoms. Physically, nothing compared to the first week but I would still have occasional stomach issues and sleep still wasn't great but beginning to get better at that point. My energy levels, while improving, still weren't where I wanted them to be and oh yeah, the hot/cold thing was still there but not constantly and mostly at night.

    Given the comparison, I would guess that nothing you are feeling wouldn't be expected. Your continued use of Kratom is a little concerning for me though. Please be careful with it and begin to do your best to reduce your dose so that you can leave that behind. I have followed others who had to detox from Kratom and it can be a bear. I would hate to see you have yet something else that you're going to have to detox now that you're so close to having put the methadone nightmare behind you. I did leave Randy a message asking that he drop in here and give you his opinion so please watch for him.

    Keep updating. You're doing great!

    Peace,

    Cat
    Yeah the reason i was even considering getting back on methadone is because i dont want to get stuck on a high dose of Kratom. I didnt really have a problem tapering off Methadone but because of how long it takes is what was bothering me. Once i can get to the point where i take a teaspoon of Kratom and dont feel withdrawals is when im going to focus on tapering. Currently im trying to simply maintain the same dose. Im hoping that since iv already been methadone free for over a month that i should be arriving at that point soon. All this stuff would be much easier if i didnt work but sadly i just dont think it would be possible for me to keep up a fast physical pace at work that i need to maintain to get the job done within the time required. Also i notice myself towards the end of my work day getting really irritated with companies and the people im required to talk to. I cant even imagine what i would be like if i was dealing with it cold turkey.

    Im just crossing my fingers that this isnt like last time when i started feeling better that i all of the sudden started feeling worse again. That really drained me mentally since i thought i was finally past the methadone.

    This weekend i might try and cut the Kratom by half just to see how it goes.
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  11. #11
    Wayside1 is offline New Member
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    Update

    About 2 weeks ago i decided to finally jump off the Kratom because i kind off hit a wall when it came to tapering off it. The withdrawals really wernt that bad for me... i use phenibut for maybe 2 days and 1 of the days i took 16mg of immodium.

    Im wondering though

    I feel alot better and going through the day isnt difficult but i notice i still feel a bit off in the mornings. Il sweat easy or il be hotter then i should be.

    Do you guys just think this is simply something that will take more time to go away??
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  12. #12
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayside1 View Post
    Update

    About 2 weeks ago i decided to finally jump off the Kratom because i kind off hit a wall when it came to tapering off it. The withdrawals really wernt that bad for me... i use phenibut for maybe 2 days and 1 of the days i took 16mg of immodium.

    Im wondering though

    I feel alot better and going through the day isnt difficult but i notice i still feel a bit off in the mornings. Il sweat easy or il be hotter then i should be.

    Do you guys just think this is simply something that will take more time to go away??
    Yes. Those are among the symptoms that persist the longest. It'll get better gradually but takes some time. Nicely done, by the way. That wasn't easy, I'm sure but you got through it. Thanks for coming back and reporting.

    Peace,

    Cat

  13. #13
    Helpontheway is offline New Member
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    Congratulations,my journey getting off methadone has been slow,but my life and sobriety has been great.been clean for 10 years not including 100 mg down to 80 going to 75 next week,.Was thinking about switching to subutex? ,as the mmclinic is getting to me.Was on a 2 week schedule,had a heart procedure and got two bad benzo urines.Askedthe hospital to give me a copy of what meds I was given and I’m still waiting.This was back in June,schedule was dropped to once a week but the punishment is for 9months,and my counselor talks about acceptance,instead of advocating for me,oh well,acceptance is the key!Thanks for letting me vent any advice on moving forward would be appreciated

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    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hello Helpontheway, welcome to this forum. You should start your own thread and give us alittle history about you. I'm not sure the question moving forward you are asking. Do you want to be clean and sober free of all mind mood altering chemicals? Start a thread we are all here to support you.. Stay Strong for Today..

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    dj1purity is offline New Member
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    I've been on and off methadone many times, the easiest for me.has been when I was really determined and lowered my self at a clinic 10mg.or 5 mg every 3-5 days until done. I don't see why you didn't take the same time off, 3 weeks, and just go down 5 mg every few days. This krantom stuff I never tried. It to me that justeans I can't advise you on that.

    I got off last time off methadone no wds bc I found d out I was pregnant so was determined, and I went from 120mg down to 0 in about 8 weeks but I took Xanax and after Xanax switched to Klonopin which I stayed on until recently and now i am quitting benzos I have that issue plus I got back on methadone again a little over a year later due to pain.

    Anyway I think u sounded good bc I never heard of prolonging or making methadone wds last so long by pushing wds back with anything. It sounded to me like u got over them and if krantom is addictive that could be an issue but if no amount will get u better, then why prolong it?

    I believe once u felt.better and say even great that u were over the wds. Why u felt rebound sick could be post acute withdrawal syndrome or symptoms meaning u can be mentally addicted and feel psychological symptoms after wds from any drug physically stop. It is like rebound anxiety or cravings and u could treat them but it could be krantom wasn't helping but becoming its own addiction.

    Addiction can make physical symptoms psychological and vice versa and his why it is so hard to quit or stop when in active addiction. This is why some doctors won't advise detoxing unless you are out of active addiction or you will drive yourself crazy. Believe me i have recently been doing that to myself lately insisting I can't seem to get lower in my dose of methadone today bc I insist I need Xanax or a benzos to help which is not anything but addictive thinking.

    If methadone works for you why are you quitting? It sounds you may not have been ready or had another reason to just jump off 25 mg which still will hurt like coming off.120 mg. If u want to go back on 5mg then do it and feel better and stop obsessing. You may be an addict and not ready and 5mg is easier to deal with now that you stop krantom please!

  16. #16
    Wayside1 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catrina View Post
    Yes. Those are among the symptoms that persist the longest. It'll get better gradually but takes some time. Nicely done, by the way. That wasn't easy, I'm sure but you got through it. Thanks for coming back and reporting.

    Peace,

    Cat
    Thanks. I appreciate the kind words.

    Sorry it took me a while to respond.

    Honestly quitting the kratom wasnt that hard surprisingly. Considering i was on methadone for many years and at a high dose and i jumped off from a high dose i was mentally prepared for something similar but to my luck that wasnt the case. I didnt even take time off work i just took a bit off immodium for 2 days 14-16mg and phenibut for one day and the rest off the week i was able to just tough it out.

    That warm feeling i had in my chest/stomach area is now gone. (Which makes me really happy since it was difficult not to focus on it). I still feel weak when i wake up in the morning but usually when i get out of bed and move around it goes away. Considering how long i was on methadone i actually think im feeling fairly good compared to some of the other stories i read. Im even going back to the gym daily and lifting weights. We'll see how long that weak feeling in the morning will continue but it kinda motivates me to get out of bed in the morning and move around so im okay with it for now.

    Quote Originally Posted by dj1purity View Post
    I've been on and off methadone many times, the easiest for me.has been when I was really determined and lowered my self at a clinic 10mg.or 5 mg every 3-5 days until done. I don't see why you didn't take the same time off, 3 weeks, and just go down 5 mg every few days. This krantom stuff I never tried. It to me that justeans I can't advise you on that.

    I got off last time off methadone no wds bc I found d out I was pregnant so was determined, and I went from 120mg down to 0 in about 8 weeks but I took Xanax and after Xanax switched to Klonopin which I stayed on until recently and now i am quitting benzos I have that issue plus I got back on methadone again a little over a year later due to pain.

    Anyway I think u sounded good bc I never heard of prolonging or making methadone wds last so long by pushing wds back with anything. It sounded to me like u got over them and if krantom is addictive that could be an issue but if no amount will get u better, then why prolong it?

    I believe once u felt.better and say even great that u were over the wds. Why u felt rebound sick could be post acute withdrawal syndrome or symptoms meaning u can be mentally addicted and feel psychological symptoms after wds from any drug physically stop. It is like rebound anxiety or cravings and u could treat them but it could be krantom wasn't helping but becoming its own addiction.

    Addiction can make physical symptoms psychological and vice versa and his why it is so hard to quit or stop when in active addiction. This is why some doctors won't advise detoxing unless you are out of active addiction or you will drive yourself crazy. Believe me i have recently been doing that to myself lately insisting I can't seem to get lower in my dose of methadone today bc I insist I need Xanax or a benzos to help which is not anything but addictive thinking.

    If methadone works for you why are you quitting? It sounds you may not have been ready or had another reason to just jump off 25 mg which still will hurt like coming off.120 mg. If u want to go back on 5mg then do it and feel better and stop obsessing. You may be an addict and not ready and 5mg is easier to deal with now that you stop krantom please!
    While on methadone i had no energy to do anything. I didnt want to go to college... i stopped working out... i stopped wanting to hang out with people because id start becoming easily irritated towards the end of the night. I wish i didnt wait so long to get off it tbh. I woke up one day and was pissed where my life was at and i decided i wanted to get off it even if i didnt taper down enough.

    I dont want anyone to think im supporting the idea of using Kratom to quit BUT in all honesty it did help me out alot. When i jumped off methadone i felt like horriblleeee for about a month and Kratom helped me feel decent enough to shower and eat and perhaps fall asleep. That little 2-3 hour break when i would take kratom where i didnt feel like complete garbage was a goal i could focus on each day which mentally helped me alot.

    I probably should have jumped off Kratom a bit earlier like Catrina suggested but i was a bit afraid to do so considering i just went through a month of hell with methadone.

    But currently im over a month clean from everything and id say im feeling fairly decent considering how many years i was on methadone.
    Lvg nghtmare likes this.

  17. #17
    Tommyleecrane is offline New Member
    Join Date
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    Maybe off subj but how do caffeine and red meat hurt your withdrawal process?

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