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Methadone to Suboxone after precipitated withdrawal how long?
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    Thersagirl is offline New Member
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    Default Methadone to Suboxone after precipitated withdrawal how long?

    wanted to say I just came out of precipitated withdrawal! What holy hell! I have been on methadone for 6 years 115 mlg daily got myself down to 50 mlg for 2 weeks waited more than 72 hoursand ok from my doc then took 2mlg sub was fine not better just not worse following my doc orders took another 2mlg 90 mins later ok then took another 2mlg after 90 min and o my god. Almost instantly threw me into precipitated withdrawal! This was to say the least horrible ×1000. Don't want this to happen again but determined to switch to subs. It has been 48 hrs since PW stopped.When can I try again without goin threw hell! Please help!
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  2. #2
    Wavision is offline Member
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    Welcome. I have never experienced precipitated wd's so I'm no help there....nor have I ever been on methadone. I believe it has a long half life though, so it's no surprise.

    I would recommend reading the stickied sub taper plan which is stickied at the top of the suboxone sub forum.

    Follow the induction instructions and then the taper plan. Several of us are going through the tapering process right now and for the most part are doing well.

    Give it a few reads and let us know if you have any questions. Post as much as you can, you will get tons of great advice and support here from everyone.

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    Thersagirl is offline New Member
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    Thanks for the welcome. I have read it all and do intend to taper off eventually. Just need info on when to try induction again SAFELY! CANT GO THRU THAT AGAIN! Im moving into day 6 free of methadone and feeling very frustrated and anxious. Unfortunately my doc is out of office due to weekend and we live in Louisiana so mardigras is Tuesday and he may be out till Wednesday. Just need a lil truthfull advice. And again thanks for the reply. I'll keep posting.

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    Autumnhopes is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thersagirl View Post
    wanted to say I just came out of precipitated withdrawal! What holy hell! I have been on methadone for 6 years 115 mlg daily got myself down to 50 mlg for 2 weeks waited more than 72 hoursand ok from my doc then took 2mlg sub was fine not better just not worse following my doc orders took another 2mlg 90 mins later ok then took another 2mlg after 90 min and o my god. Almost instantly threw me into precipitated withdrawal! This was to say the least horrible ×1000. Don't want this to happen again but determined to switch to subs. It has been 48 hrs since PW stopped.When can I try again without goin threw hell! Please help!

    Wow!! 6 mg of sub is a lot. Most people are ok on 2-3 mg per day. Some may need a little more. But doctors seem to think along the lines as big pharma more more more... after all, we all can follow the cycle.

    Waiting longer may have helped u bc methadone has an extremely long half life...it stays in your body for days before most ppl have w/d symptoms. But I have never taken more then 2mg sub in a day & when I was getting off Percocet which is totally different I know, I only waited about 16 hours before taking the sub 1/2 mg every hour till I reached 2 mg. Then stopped. That was good.

    My question how did u feel on 2mg or 4 mg symptom wise? Do u think that could be enough for you?

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    Walkley822 is offline Member
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    Yikes! I’ve never been on methadone but I’ve been through PW’s a few different times and my heart goes out to you. I’m so sorry you had to experience that. I’m really hoping Randy will be by to offer his support because I believe he has experience with methadone or has helped others induct with it. Hang in there. I’m sure he will be by soon. Weekends are much slower here.

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    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hello Theresagirl welcome to the forum you have come to an awesome place for support. It's slow here on weekends someone will be by shortly to leave you a link to the cows and subtaper thread. Again welcome...

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    DravenDomnq is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Thersagirl, welcome to the forums! Here's a link to Robert's Sub Taper plan that Lvg mentioned. I'll see if I can find the cows worksheet as well and leave a link to that for you also

    https://www.drugs.com/forum/suboxone...apy-66109.html
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  8. #8
    DravenDomnq is offline Advanced Member
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    Ok, and here's a link to the COWS worksheet as well:

    https://www.drugabuse.gov/sites/defa...rawalScale.pdf
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    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thersagirl View Post
    wanted to say I just came out of precipitated withdrawal! What holy hell! I have been on methadone for 6 years 115 mlg daily got myself down to 50 mlg for 2 weeks waited more than 72 hoursand ok from my doc then took 2mlg sub was fine not better just not worse following my doc orders took another 2mlg 90 mins later ok then took another 2mlg after 90 min and o my god. Almost instantly threw me into precipitated withdrawal! This was to say the least horrible ×1000. Don't want this to happen again but determined to switch to subs. It has been 48 hrs since PW stopped.When can I try again without goin threw hell! Please help!
    Welcome!

    I left you a reply on another thread before I saw this one. I suggested there that you begin your own thread. Guess you got that memo and here you are. Good! I'll see where I posted it to see if I can cut and paste it here for you. Welcome again.

    Peace,

    Cat

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    Thersagirl is offline New Member
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    Maybe, seemed to feel a lil better after the second dose. Which was 4 mlg. It was the 3rd 2mg dose that cause the horrible horrible PW. So do u think maybe when I try again I should start with maybe a 1mlg dose? Soo scared! But I've been on methadone so long because of hydrocodone and oxycodone addiction just want to break the chains. And eventually be free of it all! It's been a total of almost 120 hrs without methadone. Trying to remain strong!

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    Thersagirl is offline New Member
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    Thanks for welcome still trying to remain strong.

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    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Here's the post I left you elsewhere. I see that you updated here again since I posted. Yes! When you are ready to induct again, it's probably OK to begin with a 2mg piece of the sub because you've been on methadone but after that, go very slowly by maybe adding a .5mg piece an hour after your first dose. If you're still not feeling well, add another .5mg piece. After that if you still need more, begin to add .25mg pieces. You want to be on the lowest dose possible.

    Did you score yourself with the COWS? It's a mistake to make the call about whether you are ready to induct using hours and when you do begin your induction, GO SLOW.

    Keep posting.

    Peace,

    Cat

    Welcome!

    I'm so sorry that you've had to go thru this. It's awful to say but sub doctors are generally not well informed on the best way to induct subs or how to do a proper taper giving you the best shot at success. You are most definitely not alone. I sure wish you had found us and posted sooner but at least you've found us now.

    Unfortunately, there's not a whole lot you can do at this point except to wait it out and try to induct again. This is a good time to ask that you create your own thread. Title it however you wish. That way all of your posts and any replies you get will be in one place and easy for you to find. In addition, it'll be far easier for us to find you! Just copy and paste your post on your new thread so that anyone who comes by will have some background.

    What to do now? Wait. I'm sorry but that's all you can do. Your cows may be off a little by having taken 6mg of sub but the important thing is to allow more of the methadone to dissipate so that you don't have a repeat performance of the precipitated withdrawals.
    You will probably have to wait a couple of days and then reinduct. When you are ready, don't introduce multiple 2mg pieces. Instead, because you are transitioning from methadone we already can predict that your initial dose will probably be between 4-6mg/day. It's important to add very small doses until you are stable (little to no withdrawal symptoms). Take a first dose of 2mg and wait a good hour and then if you aren't stable, take another .5mg. Wait another hour and if you're still not stable, take another .5mg. After that if you still need more, begin to take .25mg pieces. That way you'll land at the lowest effective dose. With subs, less is more and you will feel best at the lowest effective dose. Keep careful track of how much it took you to get stable and that's your beginning dose. You're going to stay at that dose for around a week and if you're stable, you can begin your 25% reductions. Until you are down to 1mg/day, you can either dose once a day or split your dose into two and dose twice. Once in the morning and once 8-10 hours later being sure your second dose isn't too close to bedtime. Not everyone, but there are those who find that dosing too close to bedtime interferes with their sleep. If you do decide to dose twice, make sure you split your daily dose in half so that each dose will be the same. It's important to do whatever you can to maintain as consistent a level of the sub in your system as possible.

    Start that new thread and keep posting and asking questions. This is the hardest part but once you get past your induction, follow the plan used here carefully and you're going to do great. Be patient for now even though I know it's hard. The sicker you get before you induct, the better your induction will go and be sure to go slow so that you land at the lowest dose possible.

    Good luck and Welcome again.

    Peace,

    Cat
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    Thersagirl is offline New Member
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    Didn't do the worksheet myself,but doc told me after his assessment that I was very near full withdrawal and was ok to start that evening but I chose to wait till the next morning just to be sure. But I just assest myself according to the worksheet and came up with a 22 but some symptoms I had yesterday like vomiting and diarrhea and more intense sweats and chills r not as bad today. Do u think I could be coming out of the more severe withdrawal now this is 51 hrs after PW stopped and a total of bout 120 hrs total without methadone. I'm so confused!
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    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thersagirl View Post
    Didn't do the worksheet myself,but doc told me after his assessment that I was very near full withdrawal and was ok to start that evening but I chose to wait till the next morning just to be sure. But I just assest myself according to the worksheet and came up with a 22 but some symptoms I had yesterday like vomiting and diarrhea and more intense sweats and chills r not as bad today. Do u think I could be coming out of the more severe withdrawal now this is 51 hrs after PW stopped and a total of bout 120 hrs total without methadone. I'm so confused!
    I know it can be confusing but as you wait to induct, some symptoms will temporarily abate while others escalate but then they will return and some others will get a little better. Methadone has a very long half life. I'm sure I don't have to remind you of that so after only a few days, no I'm sorry to say that you aren't "coming out of the more severe withdrawal". Keep scoring yourself because you are almost there. It just takes so dang long when switching from methadone. Be conservative and wait as long as you possibly can being sure that your score is at 26 or higher. You've got to be very close now so push through.

    Keep posting!! Did you get and read my other post about the size of your doses when you begin to induct again? Please do go very slowly with small doses once an hour until you are stable. I know how anxious you are to get this show on the road and get some much needed relief but you won't be sorry by taking the time to do this right. I'll check in to see if you've updated later today.

    Peace,

    Cat
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    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thersagirl View Post
    Didn't do the worksheet myself,but doc told me after his assessment that I was very near full withdrawal and was ok to start that evening but I chose to wait till the next morning just to be sure. But I just assest myself according to the worksheet and came up with a 22 but some symptoms I had yesterday like vomiting and diarrhea and more intense sweats and chills r not as bad today. Do u think I could be coming out of the more severe withdrawal now this is 51 hrs after PW stopped and a total of bout 120 hrs total without methadone. I'm so confused!

    Hello Thersagirl -

    Cat has provide valuable information and given you a road map to success if followed closely. I know from personal experience just how horrible precipitated wd's are having gone through them not once, but twice. Never been so sick. And believe me I know how scary it is to try again, but it doesn't have to be. I was in your same exact place and was eventually successful as you can also be.

    Here's the problem now.....You're still in Methadone wd's, but the Suboxone is covering it up. Six (6mgs) of Suboxone is a lot and will remain in your system quite some time. You'll be able to safely induct again, but it may take a few days before you're ready. You not only need to allow more of the Methadone to dissipate, but you also need to allow some of the sub to diminish too. But given a little time both will slowly leave your system.

    Wait it out and don't take ANYTHING more right now. Allow wd's to hit again. It could easily take several days before you would hit a 26 score on the Cows so be prepared for that in advance. Follow the advice Cat has given about inducting. Small doses every hour until stable is the way to go when you're ready. Don't get in a hurry, wait it out until you know you're ready to induct again and you'll be fine.

    I'll check back later,

    Randy
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    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thersagirl View Post
    Maybe, seemed to feel a lil better after the second dose. Which was 4 mlg. It was the 3rd 2mg dose that cause the horrible horrible PW. So do u think maybe when I try again I should start with maybe a 1mlg dose? Soo scared! But I've been on methadone so long because of hydrocodone and oxycodone addiction just want to break the chains. And eventually be free of it all! It's been a total of almost 120 hrs without methadone. Trying to remain strong!

    This is what is so confusing to me. WHY you didn't go into PWD's after the first dose of sub? And why not after the 2nd dose either? Why did it take until the 3rd, 2mg dose to go into PWD's? That makes no sense to me?

    The only answer I can come p with to that question is you were not ready for induction and it took much longer for the Suboxone to work for you than it might someone else. The dosing shouldn't have anything to do with it. People go into PWD's taking just .25mg of sub if they aren't ready so the actual dose hardly matters in my opinion.

    Randy
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    Thersagirl is offline New Member
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    Yes I did and will go extremely slow! Thanks for all the help and support! Goin into 7th day now. Hope to get some relief soon,trying desperately to hang on. Feeling really depressed this morning. Anxiety threw the roof? Gonna reevaluate myself in a bit. Will post again later! Thanks again to u all!

  18. #18
    Thersagirl is offline New Member
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    I am so completely confused about it myself.Scared to death to try again! Thanks for ur help it's greatly appreciated. Depressed & anxious this morning. Just trying to hang on!

  19. #19
    Thersagirl is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catrina View Post
    I know it can be confusing but as you wait to induct, some symptoms will temporarily abate while others escalate but then they will return and some others will get a little better. Methadone has a very long half life. I'm sure I don't have to remind you of that so after only a few days, no I'm sorry to say that you aren't "coming out of the more severe withdrawal". Keep scoring yourself because you are almost there. It just takes so dang long when switching from methadone. Be conservative and wait as long as you possibly can being sure that your score is at 26 or higher. You've got to be very close now so push through.

    Keep posting!! Did you get and read my other post about the size of your doses when you begin to induct again? Please do go very slowly with small doses once an hour until you are stable. I know how anxious you are to get this show on the road and get some much needed relief but you won't be sorry by taking the time to do this right. I'll check in to see if you've updated later today.

    Peace,

    Cat
    Ok hit a 27 on the cows worksheet this morning.6days 3 hours w/o methadone. I took 1mlg of sub almost 2 hrs ago and I'm fine . Don't feel any better just not worse. Really scared to take anymore because of what happened previously. Had some support here with me then but alone now.Any advice I think cat said to try 2mlg but was extremely scared

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    Wavision is offline Member
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    Do you feel any withdrawal symptoms after an hour?

    If you do, then you should take maybe just another .25mg and wait another hour. Do you have any symptoms after that??

    Keep doing that until you are symptom free and that will be your induction dose. So you took your original 1mg. Say it takes another .75mg for the symptoms to go away....your induction dose will be 1.75mg.

    You will then want to stay on that dose for 7-10 days and then begin the 25% tapers every 4-5 days or once you are stable on your tapered dose.

    Make sense?

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    Thersagirl is offline New Member
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    Yes thanks just took the .25 .let u know in a bit.

  22. #22
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thersagirl View Post
    Ok hit a 27 on the cows worksheet this morning.6days 3 hours w/o methadone. I took 1mlg of sub almost 2 hrs ago and I'm fine . Don't feel any better just not worse. Really scared to take anymore because of what happened previously. Had some support here with me then but alone now.Any advice I think cat said to try 2mlg but was extremely scared

    Make sure you go VERY slow this time around. I would only take .25mg doses every HOUR until you have a total of 1mg in your system. Last time you went into PWD after the 3rd dose, but you had taken a total of 6mg of sub. This time we want to make sure you take far less than that to see what happens. After you've taken a TOTAL of 1mg let us know how you're feeling BEFORE you proceed further.

    Randy
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    10years39days is offline Member
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    Hey thersa - Randy is an expert on the subject and has helped countless people climb over the mountain of addiction.
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    Thersagirl is offline New Member
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    Ok initially took the 1mlg first dose. Have since taken .25mlg. 3 hrs later was to scared had to wait a lil longer sorry! One hour later took another .25 and am starting to feel some relief. So do u think I should continue as instructed as long as I progressively feel better until symptoms have subsided? Really appreciate everyone's help and concern. U guys have been a tremendous help throughout this process. Couldn't do this without it!!!!

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    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    You'll never go wrong following Cat and Randy. Just keep doing what you're doing. Keep taking those .25 pieces on the hour til you're stable. Just like Randy said take it nice and slow. You'll be feeling much better then and you'll be on the lowest possible initial dose.

    You're doing great by the way!!!
    Beef
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    Thersagirl is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefaroni7272 View Post
    You'll never go wrong following Cat and Randy. Just keep doing what you're doing. Keep taking those .25 pieces on the hour til you're stable. Just like Randy said take it nice and slow. You'll be feeling much better then and you'll be on the lowest possible initial dose.

    You're doing great by the way!!!
    Beef
    Thank u so much! The support I have received here has been outstanding! Still going very very slowly and feeling some relief! I couldn't have ask for better advice. God bless all of you!

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    Thersagirl is offline New Member
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    Just wanna let u guys know the induction was a success!!!!! Thanks to all the wonderful support & advice I am stable today at 3 mlg. It's ashamed to say but my doc could not have done for me what u guys did! I am forever grateful! And will seek ur advice when ready to taper. All my love and respect!
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    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Awesome... keep reading and posting. There is plenty of Support here. Stay hydrated and keep Active it will help. Proud of You...
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    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Congratulations!!! So happy for you!

    Beef
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    Thersagirl is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thersagirl View Post
    Just wanna let u guys know the induction was a success!!!!! Thanks to all the wonderful support & advice I am stable today at 3 mlg. It's ashamed to say but my doc could not have done for me what u guys did! I am forever grateful!������ And will seek ur advice when ready to taper. ������ All my love and respect!
    Ok I'm feeling good except a lil shaky and still having anxiety. I was diagnosed with anxiety 20 yrs ago and had undergone treatment in the past but haven't experienced any extreme symptoms in 10 yrs untill the withdrawal process. I'm wandering if the methadone kept it at bay. I guess what I want to ask is do some people suffer with bad anxiety on subs? And what's a good treatment for alleviating the symptoms.

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