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Need help with Suboxone induction and tapering schedule!
  1. #1
    Mikey9iron is offline New Member
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    Default Need help with Suboxone induction and tapering schedule!

    Long story short... 26 y/o, started taking 10-15mg of Percocet 6 months ago, now taking 45-60mg. I've tried to stop using but experienced w/d symptoms so yesterday I went to the sub doctor but I really don't trust this guy as he did not ask any personal questions and just said I should take 16mg of Suboxone once daily for the rest of my life... I have no plans of doing that! I asked him about tapering and he said he does not advise on that.. my question is, when can I take my first dose and how much should I take? I snorted my last 15mg Percocet at about 10am and I would imagine I will start to feel symptoms around 4-6pm today. Can anyone help?

  2. #2
    Wavision is offline Member
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    Welcome. You need to read the suboxone taper plan which is stickied at the top of the suboxone sub forum.

    You def DO NOT want to take 16mg.

    Before taking any sub, you need to make sure you are at least a 26 on the cows sheet. Once you are, I would start with 1mg. Wait an hour and if you still feel symptoms, take another .25mg. Wait an hour and repeat if needed.

    Keep adding .25mg until you are symptom free.

    I would not listen to a single thing that Dr tells you from now on. 16mg is WAYY too much and you definitely do not want to be on suboxone for the rest of your life.

    Have you read the taper plan yet???

    The less you can take and the faster you can get off, the better.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 02-22-2018 at 01:45 PM.

  3. #3
    Mikey9iron is offline New Member
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    Wavision .. Thank you so much for your reply and I will certainly follow your instructions as soon as I get a chance. It got me thinking... do I even need Suboxone?? I've never tried weaning off of the Percs and I was thinking of doing so. Would I be better off buying a few more 30mgs and start to taper down to about 5mg and then try cold turkey before resorting to the Suboxone thing (I am in possession of the Suboxone)?? I am really scared that I will never get off the subs and I've read about terrible withdrawals from the subs. I feel like I may not be in that deep as of yet.. please, let me know what you think. I can meet my dealer today to pick up 10 more 30s and try to wean off of the Percs rather than going the sub route but I have to do something soon as I feel the w/d starting to kick in. Even if I don't quit cold turkey, would i be better off minimizing my Percocet intake before starting the subs? I'm sure this sounds a bit confusing but I have so many ideas running through my head and I want to figure out the best route to to get off of everything with a minimal w/d

    Btw, I knew there was something up with that doctor. I didn't trust him the moment I met him.

  4. #4
    Wavision is offline Member
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    If i were you I would just taper off the percs and not touch suboxone.

    Have you heard of the Thomas taper recipe?? Google it..

    It is a taper plan for opiates. I would follow that, minus the benzos unless you are already prescribed them....

    Look that up and give it a few read throughs.

    Suboxone is insanely powerful and should be avoided if possible. 16mg is just crazy. No one needs that much. That Dr just sees money from the sounds of it. Don't listen to him.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 02-22-2018 at 02:38 PM.

  5. #5
    Mikey9iron is offline New Member
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    Okay, thank you so so much. I just finished up reading the Suboxone taper plan and that sounds a lot better than 16mg's a day for the rest of my life. I am going to read the opiate taper plan that you recommended and will go that route. Thanks again!!!

  6. #6
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Wav is right suboxone should be a last resort. Imagine killing a fly with a sledgehammer. You should try everything first. My phone I acting up right now but I'll respond in greater detail when I get home.

    Welcome to the forum Mikey!!!
    Beef

  7. #7
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Hello Mikey welcome to the forum. Let me ask you why did you go to a sub doctor.
    You should first make several attempts to either taper or cold turkey the percs. Going from percs to subs is a whole other beast. There is no magical pill to make the withdrawal process easy.. If there was an easy way I would have found it. I let my fear of withdrawal control me for over 30+years. So with that said you have to really want this for yourself more than anything. You might go through a few weeks of withdrawal like you have a bad flu than be done with the garbage. Have you looked into getting face to face support Na Aa counseling thearpy. One addict helping another will give you the tools to deal with all your going through. Keep reading and posting we are all here to support you. Again welcome to the forum.
    ***Stay Strong for Today***

  8. #8
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Mikey. Lvg has made some excellent points. You really have to want this more than anything. And withdrawls are a part of that. Suboxone is crazy strong and has a very long half life. And on top of that it has a stacking effect in the body, so it takes a very long time for your body to rid it from your system. I jumped from 1mg of suboxone after being on 16mg/day for 4.5 years. I tapered down to 1mg over the last 6 months. Let me tell you that 1mg of subs is no joke. I suffered for about a month and a half before i got back to "normal" Subs should be your last resort on this journey. Try everything else first.

    Wav mentioned the Thomas Recipe for Opiate Withdrawal. It will help you on this journey. Minus the benzos, unless already being prescribed by your doctor.

    https://www.drugs.com/forum/featured...ent-35169.html

    Your experience with the sub doctor is par for the course. All they have to do is take an 8 hour class taught by big pharma and they can prescribe subs widely at ridiculously high amounts. They think that they should be a permanent solution. I will say that absolutely nobody, not even the worst addict needs 16mg/day.

    Let us know what your plans are going forward so we can better support you. You can do this!! I can tell you for a fact that being clean off the garbage is sooooo much better than i could have ever hoped for!!

    I hope this helps and have a great day!!
    Beef

  9. #9
    Wavision is offline Member
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    Mikey, how's it going.? Let us know what your decision was.

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    Mikey9iron is offline New Member
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    Hey Folks, I haven't started the subs yet and the tapering of the Percocets didn't go as planned. I'm still doing about 45-60 mg of Percocet a day. This has been going on for 6 months. I don't think I'm going to stop unless I start the subs. I don't have the time to go thru a week of withdrawal with work right now and I don't know that I have it in me. I'm wondering, if I decide to induct on subs, will I even be able to get to a 26 on the cows system? I wonder this because of my low doses. Do I have enough in my system for it to cause precipitated w/d if I induct too early? I really think I want to go the Suboxone route..??

  11. #11
    Mikey9iron is offline New Member
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    Sorry I left you guys hanging but I was getting high not tapering

  12. #12
    Wavision is offline Member
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    I do not have experience with percosets other than doing them here and there in high school.

    What is the longest you have went with percs since starting them? Did you go into withdrawal??

    I would think you will get to 26. And yes, I would think that you could send yourself into precipitated withdrawals if you take the sub too early.

    Hopefully someone with more experience can chime in for you.

    Keep in mind, you do not want to be on subs long at all. You really need to start on the lowest possible dose. Stabilize there for a week or little longer then start tapering.

    Whatever you do, please do not listen to the Dr you went to....at all.

    Also, how bad do you want to be clean??? Because if you don't want it more than anything else, this could become a rocky road.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 02-28-2018 at 12:32 PM.
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  13. #13
    Mikey9iron is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wavision View Post
    I do not have experience with percosets other than doing them here and there in high school.

    What is the longest you have went with percs since starting them? Did you go into withdrawal??

    I would think you will get to 26. And yes, I would think that you could send yourself into precipitated withdrawals if you take the sub too early.

    Hopefully someone with more experience can chime in for you.

    Keep in mind, you do not want to be on subs long at all. You really need to start on the lowest possible dose. Stabilize there for a week or little longer then start tapering.

    Whatever you do, please do not listen to the Dr you went to....at all.

    Also, how bad do you want to be clean??? Because if you don't want it more than anything else, this could become a rocky road.
    What's the longest I have gone without the little blue pill? I haven't tried to kick it but there was one day when I woke up and didn't have any left and my guy was all out. This was about 2-3 months in and I was probably doing 30-40mg at this time so I started to experience moderate w/d around noon and could tell it was certainly going to get worse. I eventually found them thru a different connect about an hour later... that is the longest I've gone without them in my 6 months. Other than that I've been able to get them very easily and money isn't an issue at the moment.

    My plan for the subs is to run out of Percs this Friday around 4pm and hopefully I'll be able to induct 22-24 hours later on Saturday. I plan to start with 1mg and the .5mg every two hours until I stabilize. If it takes 3mgs I will continue 3mg the next three or 4 days and then start to taper. What do you think?

    As for your last question, how bad do I want to be clean? I don't think bad enough.. I haven't really >>>>ed up too much... other than lying to my girlfriend and family. I haven't had to steal or get down to the nitty gritty bc as I said I can get them easily and can afford them. I'm actually more productive when working and I obviously enjoy them. The reason I want to quit is bc I know I can't keep this up. I live in a major city and have seen a lot of people get lost in these little blue pills. My older brother is in jail for two years and left his wife and 2 kids, one who has never met him, because he started messing with Percs which eventually lead to H. I always tell myself there's no way in hell I would touch H but I know that's what everyone says. So yea sorry for the rant, but that is my reasoning behind quitting. Not because I have to but because I understand where this road leads.

    P.s. All of you guys on here are saints. I can't believe there is this much support and knowledge for free. Keep doing what you're doing on here and I really appreciate all of your time and efforts.

    P.s.s. If I do mess up and get precipitated w/d can I take a Percocet to offset it?

  14. #14
    Wavision is offline Member
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    Yeah, I would advise you very a handle on this sooner than later. Things can turn on you pretty fast.

    You never know where you might be next year at this time if you do not stop....

    For the precipitated withdrawals, no I do not believe you can just take more percs to get out of it.

    Just print off the cows sheet and make sure you are at least at a 26 before taking any subs and you will be fine.

    So you are making the transition this weekend??

  15. #15
    Mikey9iron is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wavision View Post
    Yeah, I would advise you very a handle on this sooner than later. Things can turn on you pretty fast.

    You never know where you might be next year at this time if you do not stop....

    For the precipitated withdrawals, no I do not believe you can just take more percs to get out of it.

    Just print off the cows sheet and make sure you are at least at a 26 before taking any subs and you will be fine.

    So you are making the transition this weekend??
    Yes, it has been 24 hours since my last does. I am experiencing a bit of w/d but it definitely isn't severe... RLS.. whole body is restless..didn't sleep very well. Keep yawning. Eyes yearning. Nose running a bit. I certainly thought I'd be 26 on the COWS by now. I really want to take my first sub!!

  16. #16
    Wavision is offline Member
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    Mikey, what number are you on the cows sheet now??

  17. #17
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Mikey, make sure you hit that magic number 26. And be honest with your scoring. The worst thing you can do is get in a hurry and induct too early. P/W are no joke and there's nothing you can do or take to make them go away. You just gotta wait it out. Keep posting and let us know how it's going.

    Beef

  18. #18
    Mikey9iron is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefaroni7272 View Post
    Hey Mikey, make sure you hit that magic number 26. And be honest with your scoring. The worst thing you can do is get in a hurry and induct too early. P/W are no joke and there's nothing you can do or take to make them go away. You just gotta wait it out. Keep posting and let us know how it's going.

    Beef
    Well I went ahead and inducted around 4-5pm with 2mg. I took a nap shortly after and woke up w/d free. When I inducted I was probably only a about a 10 at best on the cows system. I know everyone has told me that I need to be at least a 26. I wasn't trying to disrespect anyone here by going against what you've said but I could deal with the restlessness and cold sweats. I probably could've got through w/d cold turkey within the week but like I said I don't have the motivation. Either way, I don't think I would've ever gotten to a 26 on the cows. Idk if it's because I don't use heavy amounts of oxy or if it's because I've only been on them for 6 months. Maybe it's my unbelievably high metabolism.. regardless, I am now on suboxone and I inducted at 2mg around 4:30pm. I feel sober honestly. Unfortunately, I also feel like I would love to snort a Percocet right now but I am not going to because I'm done with that >>>>. Now I just need to taper off of the subs..

    How soon should I try to taper off of the subs? 1 month? 2 months? 2 weeks?

  19. #19
    Mikey9iron is offline New Member
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    Why do I feel like I want another Perc30 right now even though I'm on 2mg suboxone??? I thought that was supposed to stop the craving? I'm not like scratching and I could easily get them but I'm not going too. Just wondering if maybe I didn't take enough suboxone... maybe another 1mg?

  20. #20
    Mikey9iron is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey9iron View Post
    Well I went ahead and inducted around 4-5pm with 2mg. I took a nap shortly after and woke up w/d free. When I inducted I was probably only a about a 10 at best on the cows system. I know everyone has told me that I need to be at least a 26. I wasn't trying to disrespect anyone here by going against what you've said but I could deal with the restlessness and cold sweats. I probably could've got through w/d cold turkey within the week but like I said I don't have the motivation. Either way, I don't think I would've ever gotten to a 26 on the cows. Idk if it's because I don't use heavy amounts of oxy or if it's because I've only been on them for 6 months. Maybe it's my unbelievably high metabolism.. regardless, I am now on suboxone and I inducted at 2mg around 4:30pm. I feel sober honestly. Unfortunately, I also feel like I would love to snort a Percocet right now but I am not going to because I'm done with that >>>>. Now I just need to taper off of the subs..

    How soon should I try to taper off of the subs? 1 month? 2 months? 2 weeks?
    P.s. I waited 26 hours before inducting. I read a few recovery websites and misted them said to wait anywhere from 12-24 hours until you induct on suboxone

  21. #21
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Suboxone doesn't take away your cravings. For me it allowed me to forget about the pills and the w/d and live my life without them. It was a way to get myself ready to begin my new clean life so to speak. That being said you don't want to be on the subs for a very long time. You're at 2mg right now. That's good you don't want to be at a high dose. All you need is enough to keep the w/d away. Stay there for a week and see how you feel. You'll know when you're ready to start tapering down. Try to put the pills out of your mind. Now that you're on the subs the percs won't do you any good.

    Im very happy that you didn't have to go through the p/w. Consider yourself lucky. They are no joke! No worries though. Whats done is done and we can now work to get you clean.

    Congratulations! We'll get this done
    Have a great night
    Keep posting and keep us updated
    Beef

    Mark sure you stay hydrated subs really dehydrate you.

  22. #22
    Mikey9iron is offline New Member
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    Will do! Thanks Beef, you da man! I will keep posting. Thanks everyone!
    Beefaroni7272 likes this.

  23. #23
    thefigurehead is offline Member
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    Hey Mikey -

    Just remember, now that you are on subs, taking percs (or anything) is pretty much useless. The sub binds to your receptors tighter than the oxy, so there is no chance of getting anything off of blues or really any opiate.

    All you can do now is stabilize on the 2 mg of sub and then begin your taper, like Beef wrote.

    Read the Sub Taper Protocol in the sticky in the Suboxone Therapy section and follow it just as it is written. Drop 25% of your current dose every 4 days, or when you are stable on the lower dose.

    You have done great to get off the Oxy... now start thinking about being clean off of everything. I was on subs, too. I tapered slowly and jumped off for good 31 days ago, thanks to this site. You can do it too.

    Keep posting when you have time!
    Last edited by Anonymous; 03-03-2018 at 11:18 PM.

  24. #24
    Mikey9iron is offline New Member
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    Hey Folks, I am now 2 days and 21 hours clean from oxy. I stabilized on 2mg of subs since then and I honestly feel like I don't even need them but I am going to continue to use them until I taper off.. hopefully by the end of next week. I don't think it'll be too difficult. My only concern is I am terribly bored and kind of depressed. Like I really miss doing oxys everyday. I know that sounds terrible but it's how I feel. I'm not going to give in because I'm not gonna start forking up $60 a day to get high again, that's just ridiculous. I feel like a POS knowing the only reason I'm not gonna start using again is because of the money and I know where that road eventually leads. I just really miss the feeling. Have any of y'all gone through this?

  25. #25
    Wavision is offline Member
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    Mikey,

    Yeah, that's addiction.

    As Tim mentioned, even if you were to do oxy right now, you would not feel it. The dub blocks out all opiates. You will feel nothing from them.

    You have to really want to quit. Have you thought about going to a NA meeting? It is highly recommended around here. There you will be around people who are going through the same exact thing you are and you will receive a ton a support. Tim who has posted here had just started going to them recently, so maybe he can chime in.

    For me, I'm so damn stubborn that once I get an idea in my head (quitting subs), that nothing is going to stop me. Today is my first day at .125mg (point 125), and I will be completely off them in about 2 weeks.

    The faster you can get off the better. You are going to need to keep yourself busy. Your name is mikey9iron, I assume you like golfing? Is it warm where you are? Are you able to get out and golf. Exercise...start a new hobby...learn something new..etc

    You basically need to start making changes in your life that will allow you to be successful. You know if you were to continue with the opiates that one day your current dose will do nothing for you and you will be doing more and more (way more than $60 a day). You will then look to other ways to get your high (H)...etc. It's inevitable...It's all downhill if you were to stay on them.

    It may not feel like it, but you ARE making the right decision. Think of some other ways you can change your life in a positive way and focus on those things.

    How are you doing today??

  26. #26
    Mikey9iron is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wavision View Post
    Mikey,

    Yeah, that's addiction.

    As Tim mentioned, even if you were to do oxy right now, you would not feel it. The dub blocks out all opiates. You will feel nothing from them.

    You have to really want to quit. Have you thought about going to a NA meeting? It is highly recommended around here. There you will be around people who are going through the same exact thing you are and you will receive a ton a support. Tim who has posted here had just started going to them recently, so maybe he can chime in.

    For me, I'm so damn stubborn that once I get an idea in my head (quitting subs), that nothing is going to stop me. Today is my first day at .125mg (point 125), and I will be completely off them in about 2 weeks.

    The faster you can get off the better. You are going to need to keep yourself busy. Your name is mikey9iron, I assume you like golfing? Is it warm where you are? Are you able to get out and golf. Exercise...start a new hobby...learn something new..etc

    You basically need to start making changes in your life that will allow you to be successful. You know if you were to continue with the opiates that one day your current dose will do nothing for you and you will be doing more and more (way more than $60 a day). You will then look to other ways to get your high (H)...etc. It's inevitable...It's all downhill if you were to stay on them.

    It may not feel like it, but you ARE making the right decision. Think of some other ways you can change your life in a positive way and focus on those things.

    How are you doing today??
    It is still a bit chilly in the mid atlantic for golf but I'll be out there soon enough. I'm gonna get over this and you're absolutely right I do need to make some changes because it's a long and ugly road if I start again. A lot of my friends are clean now and have gone thru what I'm going through but I haven't told them about my problem because they have huge mouths. A lot of them attend meetings weekly and I may talk to one of them in confidence. I'm gonna stay strong! Thanks for the support!

  27. #27
    Wavision is offline Member
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    Def talk to your clean friends, but let them know you don't want it to be talked about .... Go to meetings with them??

    You def don't want to turn back to the pills. Things can turn real ugly real fast and the next thing you know it's 20 years later and you are in a horrible place wondering what happened.

    I know it sounds cliché, but life really is short...don't miss out on life man.

    You've just started this 6 months ago...you can get out now like you are with minimal damage.

    Yes, being on those pills feels great for a period of time, but when that timer goes off....it's all trouble. I mean think about it, addiction causes some people to steal their own families stuff...take their kids ps4 and pawn it for $40 etc. It's ugly.

    Like I said, you are making the right decision..

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