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Opiate Detox Using Subs, this time I'll do it the right way!
  1. #1
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    Default Opiate Detox Using Subs, this time I'll do it the right way!

    Hat in hand - never completed my detox/sub therapy from last Dec, although ashamed and hoped to be posting with some clean time, I am back with all stubbornness left at the door. And having a better experience this go round, by using the tried and true methods of the sub taper plan as it was meant to be used for the most part.

    A quick update on where I failed and whats happened since last posts under My Fast Taper using Subs.

    I made 7 days last Dec using a rapid taper off a 160-180 hydro/oxy addiction over the previous 3.5 yrs of so- I was doing what I thought was right for me, dropping 50% every 2-3 days on my sub usage- on day 7 I had a major migraine and self medicated using T3's - no big deal- so I thought- never had an affinity to abuse t3's- anyway - I shortly found an old stash of Hydro's that I thought weren't the real deal 179's - thats all it took and I was Back In Baby, and not in a good way. I convinced myself I could just taper using hydros- seemed easier than subs- I didn't escalate usage for about a month, but that didn't last long. By Feb was back to standard dosage and re-inducted on subs- that lasted 4 days and got re-supplied on my DOC- this went on every 30-60 days, use- try to re-induct, and would just go back to the same usage. Yes, this is the definition of insanity- doing the same thing and expecting a different result. By June I shot up to 200+ Mgs and gave up on any efforts to stop using.

    Come November, I finally took inventory on what I was doing and made the decision to really give this a shot and follow the methods laid out by Robert 325 and my past friends on here ( Cat and Robert 35 please know its not gonna be my way this time)- before the inevitable results of using consumed me, loss of all material belongings, family, job, and death- which I cant believe I still have a functioning liver at this point. I worked on a date and started to get my mind right for what was to come, I cut my dosage by 50% to 120 mg for two days and started my plan on 11/27 5PM- USing a low starting dose and expecting some W/D symptoms.

    Inducted 11/27 1 MG Sub- ( I know way low, been here before- I just dont like sub at higher doses)
    11/28 10 am- 1mg sub by 5pm here it comes W/D's but at a low level compared to no sub use -
    11/29 1mg upon waking- ok this is like a full blown flu- serious body and intestinal pain- 4 hrs seep It was expected I got thru it
    11/30 1mg took a hot soak twice in the am, do not underestimate how much this helps- Lethargic, 4 hrs sleep
    12/1 .75 mg - Felt stable enough to drop the hot soaks are huge relief, dosing 2 lopes am and pm along with benzos to sleep- this was a bad day for cravings-got 5 hrs sleep with benzo aide- Mentally I made the first 4 days and this sets me up for the down swing- should not be worse than the first 4 days that I under dosed the subs- I am using this as a reminder why I will not go thru this again!
    12/2 .75 10am feeling bad again- But, after I dose I can be somewhat human- decide to dose upon starting day say 6-7 am
    12/3 .75 7am ok- but here come the cravings bad, bad cravings- I felt a divine Intervention took place- I was ready to hit the money machine and make the call- and my prayers were answered- lord knows it wasn't my will that stopped me!
    12/4 .75 7am - all is improved including sleep feeling stable enough -
    12/5 .625 or as close to that as I could determine- so I was dropping to .50 will try that tomorrow.

    I cant recommend inducting this low, but it is getting ME a head start on my taper- which will be 15-25% every 4 days- the first 4 days were hell, but I expected this and made it thru to get to this point-

    One huge difference this go round is my anxiety is much, much lower than my attempt last Dec. This is attributed to knowing what to expect, not holding myself to doing this my way, and accepting that this will not be totally painless and accepting the symtoms will slowly subside on my path to full sobriety.
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  2. #2
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Good to hear from you Bogey. Sorry you've had a rough year but glad that you're going to give this another go.

    OK. I swear I'm going to say this with a pure heart and with the very best intentions but I have to say it. Why wouldn't you follow the Sub Taper Plan to the letter this time? This is your journey and I have no intention of trying to cram something down your throat that you want no part of. Honest! BUT if you can just get back to basics there really are only two choices. The first would have been to just cold turkey. You'd have been miserable tor 5 or 6 days and by now the worst of your symptoms would be done and you'd be counting clean days. That ship has sailed. The other is to use your subs correctly and responsibly and you'd have avoided feeling this chitty this past week, you'd be stable and almost ready to make your second reduction.

    I guess another way to look at this is that the slow taper from subs is important on more than one level. The first is that you can function physically but the other is the mental part and just as (if not more) important. What causes most relapses? We just don't have to stamina to feel chitty for too long. Being in constant withdrawal will catch up with us.

    Will you please consider a re-do on what you're doing? Re-induct and get completely stable at a reasonable dose and begin a proper taper. Your life will be almost uninterrupted, you can mentally prepare for your sobriety, and feeling good just will give you a better chance of maintaining your sobriety once you jump. You have a week's worth of sub in your system so you've made that commitment. It just makes so much sense to me to take a few weeks to do it right. Yes? Will you consider this?

    Peace,

    Cat
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  3. #3
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    Wow Cat, thanks for responding, your knowledge is greatly appreciated- truth is I am some what stable- the first 4 days were Hell, each drop was not that bad- mainly lethargic, mild flu symptoms...cravings are the worst every 2-3 days, then is manageable- I suppose thats my body adjusting to the drop on day 4. Then 2-3 days later the 1/2 life says Woah Nellie- what ya doing here....

    I am not making further drops till I feel fully stable at .625 -.50 I have that timed for 12/9 but I am fully prepared to add a day or so as needed.

    Right now, I dose and two hrs later I am able to function at about 75% and that's ok by me- if you feel other wise- I will take your advise to heart- At best I would consider staying at .75 another day or so- but I am ok right now- Any real loss of progress and I will not hesitate to run another 4 consistent days if needed.

    Hope you and yours are well, and that the NE weather is not so bad yet- we are expecting our first freeze this week and hoping I have enough energy to get the Jungle on the Deck protected before Thurs!
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  4. #4
    Ricky71 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogey59 View Post
    Hat in hand - never completed my detox/sub therapy from last Dec, although ashamed and hoped to be posting with some clean time, I am back with all stubbornness left at the door. And having a better experience this go round, by using the tried and true methods of the sub taper plan as it was meant to be used for the most part.

    A quick update on where I failed and whats happened since last posts under My Fast Taper using Subs.

    I made 7 days last Dec using a rapid taper off a 160-180 hydro/oxy addiction over the previous 3.5 yrs of so- I was doing what I thought was right for me, dropping 50% every 2-3 days on my sub usage- on day 7 I had a major migraine and self medicated using T3's - no big deal- so I thought- never had an affinity to abuse t3's- anyway - I shortly found an old stash of Hydro's that I thought weren't the real deal 179's - thats all it took and I was Back In Baby, and not in a good way. I convinced myself I could just taper using hydros- seemed easier than subs- I didn't escalate usage for about a month, but that didn't last long. By Feb was back to standard dosage and re-inducted on subs- that lasted 4 days and got re-supplied on my DOC- this went on every 30-60 days, use- try to re-induct, and would just go back to the same usage. Yes, this is the definition of insanity- doing the same thing and expecting a different result. By June I shot up to 200+ Mgs and gave up on any efforts to stop using.

    Come November, I finally took inventory on what I was doing and made the decision to really give this a shot and follow the methods laid out by Robert 325 and my past friends on here ( Cat and Robert 35 please know its not gonna be my way this time)- before the inevitable results of using consumed me, loss of all material belongings, family, job, and death- which I cant believe I still have a functioning liver at this point. I worked on a date and started to get my mind right for what was to come, I cut my dosage by 50% to 120 mg for two days and started my plan on 11/27 5PM- USing a low starting dose and expecting some W/D symptoms.

    Inducted 11/27 1 MG Sub- ( I know way low, been here before- I just dont like sub at higher doses)
    11/28 10 am- 1mg sub by 5pm here it comes W/D's but at a low level compared to no sub use -
    11/29 1mg upon waking- ok this is like a full blown flu- serious body and intestinal pain- 4 hrs seep It was expected I got thru it
    11/30 1mg took a hot soak twice in the am, do not underestimate how much this helps- Lethargic, 4 hrs sleep
    12/1 .75 mg - Felt stable enough to drop the hot soaks are huge relief, dosing 2 lopes am and pm along with benzos to sleep- this was a bad day for cravings-got 5 hrs sleep with benzo aide- Mentally I made the first 4 days and this sets me up for the down swing- should not be worse than the first 4 days that I under dosed the subs- I am using this as a reminder why I will not go thru this again!
    12/2 .75 10am feeling bad again- But, after I dose I can be somewhat human- decide to dose upon starting day say 6-7 am
    12/3 .75 7am ok- but here come the cravings bad, bad cravings- I felt a divine Intervention took place- I was ready to hit the money machine and make the call- and my prayers were answered- lord knows it wasn't my will that stopped me!
    12/4 .75 7am - all is improved including sleep feeling stable enough -
    12/5 .625 or as close to that as I could determine- so I was dropping to .50 will try that tomorrow.

    I cant recommend inducting this low, but it is getting ME a head start on my taper- which will be 15-25% every 4 days- the first 4 days were hell, but I expected this and made it thru to get to this point-

    One huge difference this go round is my anxiety is much, much lower than my attempt last Dec. This is attributed to knowing what to expect, not holding myself to doing this my way, and accepting that this will not be totally painless and accepting the symtoms will slowly subside on my path to full sobriety.
    Just my 2 cents, SLOW DOWN! You are trying to go too fast and you are way too aggressive! One thing that is great about a sub taper is to obviously avoid opiate withdrawal but more importantly is to also give you some time to change your addictive behaviors, suppress drug cravings and to make the necessary changes so you can avoid relapse when you finish the sub therapy! Also very important is to make sure you are absolutely 100% stable before reductions and lastly take your sub dose at the same time everyday!

    Like my friend Randy always says, "do this right the first time and you'll never have to do it again"!!! Best of luck to you... God bless us all!

    PS
    Slow and steady wins the race!
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  5. #5
    DravenDomnq is offline Advanced Member
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    I have no experience with subs or methadone, but tried way too aggressively myself on my first oxy tapers, and always failed in my attempts to do so. Wasn't until I slowed down with the tapers, started incorporating this program into my routines that I was finally able to build up the courage to make the jump. If I had found this years ago it would have saved me years and years of hardship. I'd definitely listen to these guys because they know what they're talking about!
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  6. #6
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Good Morning Bogey,

    If you think this has is manageable with the first four days having been the worst of it, then maybe you do stick to your plan with one very important adjustment. There is no law to say that you have to stay at any one dose for a certain number of days and make a 25% reduction. How about if you stay put at your current .75 for at LEAST one more entire week or until you are completely stable? Maybe then make a small reduction and cutting by only 10%. Give that dose the full 4 or 5 days to see how you're feeling. Your dose is low enough that going slowly and making smaller reductions and staying at each dose will make things a bit easier. I just posted to someone else who is attempting a quick taper similar to yours. You mentioned that your cravings can be off the chart. Getting stable on the subs and taking this slow will allow you some time to deal with the mental part of this and give you a chance to get your cravings under control. What's the most frequent cause for relapse? Our inability to deal with being sick (at any level) for a long period of time it's just too hard to do when we know how easy it would be to get some relief and take a time out. We can just be stronger if we feel OK.

    I really think it would be in your best interest to slow things down. Assess how you're feeling honestly and stay and any current dose as long as you need to. Making smaller reductions will help too. The end goal is to get through this and still function and feel as well as possible. You're only a matter of a few weeks away from being able to jump and be done., If in the long run this gives you time to get the cravings under control and begin to learn to live life sober, those few weeks are a small price to pay.

    Don't disappear. Post everyday and several times a day if you can. Let us know how you're feeling and be open to tweaking your plan so that this doesn't interrupt your life any more than necessary. Be patient. I know. Patience is not one of our strong points but now is as good a time as any to work on that.

    We had our first snow yesterday. Less than an inch but I have to say it was beautiful. Temps are mild for this time of year and I'll take it. I managed to get the leaves raked on Sunday--just in the nick of time.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  7. #7
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you Cat, Ricky and Draven for your inputs- so I had a little setback this AM around 3:30am, I abruptly awoke with a full blown migraine- my wife just couldn't bear to see me reeling in pain and dry heaving after an hour she went ahead and gave me my usually migraine cocktail Phenegran, followed in 20 min with ativan and 7.5 hydro- (hers-) followed by another 1/2 of a 7.5 30 min later- by 5:30 I was back asleep and awoke 2 hours later with the Migraine subsided. As long as the Migraine does not rebound today, I should be out of the woods.

    By 9:30 I dosed .60-.50 sub, I cant tell exact size- this marks day 2 at my lower dose- and doing well other than the migraine scare- If they arent knocked out immediately they last 3 days- so i am happy i am doing better from this- funny the same thing happened last year right around day 7 - this was day 9 on subs this time when I got the Migraine - wondering now if the subs might be causing this.

    I have two days in a row with 6 hrs sleep which is close to my normal sleep pattern so thats good with one exception- I am now getting the DD's- Drug Dreams, actually this might be good- when I quit coke- I had them pretty bad for a couple weeks- the brain must be trying to deal with the lack of hydro- maybe its starting its repair...

    My worst complaints are Lack of motivation and energy, cravings, and anxiety. The anxiety is way better this go round as I have been here before and know what to expect somewhat, and I am taking more of a -lets not worry about what if's- and concentrate on today only. But it is still extremely bothersome as I had issues with this before I started hydros.

    My Plan is to stay at .60-.50 till 12/8, that will be 4 consecutive days and consider dropping to .375 on Friday- I had planned to drop to .25 but it might be best to follow your advise and be prepared to do smaller drops per Ricky's and Cat's advise.

    Today's mantra- "I am 1 cigarette away from a pack a day habit" - substitute cigarette for your DOC

    Cat, consider making a snow angel for me- LOL- On 2nd thought its prob wet snow- we dont want ya to get a cold wet snow soak!

    Thanks All, You guys Rock, and I really appreciate the check ups! I will most likely post in the evening again-
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  8. #8
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi Bogey -

    I'm Randy and have been reading your thread along with the replies from the members. You've gotten excellent advice, suggestions, and support. You put in the work and we'll get you through this. Promise!

    Sub can definitely cause headaches. I'm not entirely certain if they cause migraines, but they positively cause headaches. Believe it or not punding down as much cold water as you can will usually have a big impact on those headaches. It's doesn't seem possible, but it's true. Try that the next time you get one and see if that helps. Theres also Excedrin Migraine that has been known to help many. I'm sure you're aware of migraine prescription meds that can help to. The one that comes to mind first is Immitrex. My mom takes it for her migraines.

    I'll also inform you that taking any kind of narcotic such as the hydro you got from your wife will have no effect if you're taking subs. Even if you're on a lower dose such as the .5mg - .6mg you're now taking. The sub is so strong it blocks the receptors in your brain and won't allow the pain hydro to get through. The hydo did nothing I assure you. Must have been one of the others?

    No, you don't want to reduce from .5mg to .25mg. You want to go from .5mg to .375mg as those dose reductions over 25% can cause problems that you don't want.

    Doing well and I hope those migraines end real soon. Has to be terrible to deal with. Take care.

    Randy
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  9. #9
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    Randy, thank you for your advise- as of this writing the migraine has not rebounded, fingers crossed - You, Cat and Silverlining were around last Dec to help me- although I didnt make it through that time- as I was stubborn and did not listen-you and the above mentioned cast have helped me tremendously- Like I said my anxiety is 1/2 of my last attempt and I attribute that to all the useful information you all have provided me- Knowledge is power and gives us addicts some sense of what to expect- I'm sure you would agree that fear of the unknown is a Bad thing when going down this path to recovery.

    My migraines were inherited and have had them since I was 17, I know every drug otc and prescribed and every trick for relief for this curse- the 2 ice cold glasses of water can help at very onset, but not when one awakes with a full blown migraine- Immetrex does not work for me at all, Midrin was a vaso-dilator that was off lable and did not get renewed due to the cost- Thank you FDA- it was the best non narcotic med 4 me- until they took it off the market- Running Ice cold water over my head, to the point of near brain freeze, can help,- but our temps have been to mild to produce cold enough water here yet. Other than trying the above- I usually have to resort to my Migraine Cocktail several times a year.

    I do have 2 questions for you or any others with experience- my biggest fear of failure is dealing with cravings during and after this process- when I dose the sub it is greatly reduced- and when I drop- it shows up late the 2nd day after my drop- Very Intense cravings- so this could be a case for a longer use of subs, and longer tapers- I believe I read that 10% drop is the clinically recognized slow taper and 25% is somewhat a mid to fast taper- from opiates.

    Question 1: Anyone know of any positive outcomes using Naltrexone?- (not naloxone in subs) There seems to be some spotty info and studies indicating it does reduce cravings- some suggest its only because it blocks opiate receptors and the euphoria- others suggest it actually has its own separate effect blocking cravings for opiates and in a lesser degree alcohol-

    Question 2: Any reason I should NOT incorporate Naltrexone 72 hrs after my sub jump? Heck- I'm thinking even if I get a placebo effect it might be worth a try? My thoughts are using this as a crutch for 30-90 days after I jump to get some clean time. (I will not pay $1000 for the 30 day shot Vivitrol-same drug- on principal alone!

    Thank you Randy! .50 to .375 on day 4- 12/8 if stable enough to drop. Makes sense!

    Become the kind of person that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan groans and says, "OH NO, HE'S AWAKE".

  10. #10
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    Randy says: "I'll also inform you that taking any kind of narcotic such as the hydro you got from your wife will have no effect if you're taking subs. Even if you're on a lower dose such as the .5mg - .6mg you're now taking"

    I have never had any euphoria from any narcotic while having a full blown migraine- with one exception and that was when the er's use to give shots of demerol w/phenergren and even then I just nodded off with little euphoric effect- Demerol is not the best method as rebound headache is very likely. I believe the pain superseded any real narcotic effects- at least thats the way it works for me-

    I failed to point out my 2nd fear to the cravings- The wife is a 10 yr pillhead- I cried when I found this out and had this grand idea I would save her by buying out all her suppliers- and I got myself into this mess shortly thereafter. Probably had to show her how to do it right- ya gonna be an addict? This is how to be an addict! Type A personalities always gotta do it better- LOL

    So I can not remove myself from that trigger- in fact on Monday she started telling me she was going to score- after I explained early in my process not to mention any drug use - I'm like wtf, are your kidding me!- I'm fighting real hard here and your just gonna casually mention your off to the races- arghhhh- I think Cat mentioned she had a similar issue with her son- so she was good at reminding me that this process is on me- my wife's addiction problem is hers- Mine is mine, and my responsibility, I can and will only work on me at this point,at least until I build up some clean time.

    Ok- I should get home to chores- big freeze coming here and have 200 plants to move in the next 48 hrs. Hey maybe the shower water will be cold enough to use for a migraine if needed- Ha- life always has an upside!

    Again, I really appreciate the follow ups!

    I'll check in tomorrow.
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  11. #11
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Hi Bogey,

    Oh we have so much in common. I suffered with migraines from time I was around 17 until I hit 50 and had all those awesome hormonal changes. While I was using, I had at least a couple a month. After menopause, I would only get a few per year. I'll be seven years clean at the end of this month. In those 7 years I think I've had less than a handful of migraines. Did the narcotics cause more migraines? You betcha. I was always told that narcotics were not a good treatment for migraines. I didn't believe them then. I do now. My go-to otc meds are Aleve for my bum back and Extra Strength Excedrin for headaches. My daughter is a nurse and she suggested 2 Excedrin and 2 Motrin at the same time for headaches. Works like a charm. People who have never had a true migraine have no idea what they feel like. I assure you I do. I worked for a medical practice for a number of years and we'd get people who would come into the office because they had a "migraine". I'd watch them sit in the waiting room and just shake my head. That is not a migraine. A migraine has you wanting to throw yourself into traffic. I'd spend the entire time hugging the porcelain god. My 8 year old granddaughter came up with her own migraine fix. She brought in some fist sized rocks and put them in the freezer. I put them at the base of my skull and they help--a lot! They stay cold for hours and don't melt. How cool is that?

    Yes you are right again. My son is an active H addict. I had to learn how to just stop trying to save him. It's not my job. He's an adult and he gets to choose how he lives his life. I get to choose whether I allow him to effect mine and how. I choose to do nothing and let him live his life and face all his consequences. This was huge for me. Right now it's hard for you to hear and know what your gf is up to. Next phase: Resentment. Not resentment that she is using and you can't, but resentment of all the negative this creates in your life. You've chosen not to participate in that lifestyle but so long as she's a part of your life, that lifestyle is in your face everyday.

    Last but not least, Naltrexone. You gotta know that I have experience with that too, don't yah? I do. I had a pellet implanted in my groin that was effective for 90 days and cost $1,000. I relapsed at around 6 months. They also have pellets that are effective for 6 months ($2,000) and one year ($3,000). It removes the option of skipping your daily dose of the pill form. Did it diminish cravings for me? Yes. I was told by the doctor that there is something in it that helps to curb cravings. I have no idea if that's true or not. For me, I settled on believing that this too was mostly (if not all) mental. I didn't OBSESS about pills. I didn't have that daily battle with myself of whether I "deserved" a time-out or not because I knew there was no sense taking them.It just removes that option and there's no decision to make. I didn't wish I could use but then again, It had been years that I didn't want to use and in fact, had grown to hate the way it made me feel and I hated what they had done to my physical appearance. I hated my dull cloudy eyes. I used to not get sick. P*iss poor excuse but that really was what it got to be. In the end, I figured out that there are all kinds of tools that will help to get you clean or kick start your recovery. However, there is only one way to remain in recovery and that's to do the work. End of story.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  12. #12
    DravenDomnq is offline Advanced Member
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    Wow Bogey, have a lot of admiration for your strength!!!! My ex-wife was an enabler, who also got legit migraines, exactly like Catrina described, and while I have no personal idea of your struggle, just couldn't imagine dealing with all you're dealing with! Almost cried reading some of your last responses thinking of what I've gone through in my past, and trust me, will continue following your story because you're a huge inspiration to me with what you're doing right now!!

  13. #13
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    Draven, thank you for the kind words- I honestly dont feel like I should be an inspiration to anyone at this early point of my recovery, yet your words give me strength- and I thank you for your comments! I will check back into your posts and history when I am feeling better- hopefully soon.

    Cat, or should I call you drugapedia LOL- you always have great info- you r awesome- I have to try the frozen stones- never thought of that one-

    Short post as today is rough- mostly from the headache returning- I am trying everything to prevent it turning back into a migraine but all the signs are there and I dont want to continue to write about it as my anxiety is building and that will only contribute to bringing it on full force-

    Today dosed .50 8 am- by 10 the headache started- I fear the subs might be the cause- and if they continue to lead to migraines I just not sure what i'll do- trying to hold out till 5 and avoid my cocktail with narcotics- my headache seems to be overriding the daily symptoms of lethargy and body aches from the taper. I have two days of very busy work schedule and then off Friday at noon to the hunt camp with a big family outing with no cell or internet so not sure of my posting schedule -

    I promise to keep posting if I get into trouble- getting worried about the sub at this point - I want to see if I can discuss Natrexolone further but just cant type right now ...

    Peace out
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    Bogey

  14. #14
    DravenDomnq is offline Advanced Member
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    Trust me, the fact you're even trying this with all that you have to deal with IS an inspiration. Hope your headache is at least under control, and that you have a great day today!!

  15. #15
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks again Draven- so being on this forum only makes sense if I am open and honest- so after two steps forward I am taking a half step back today thru Saturday. Another full blown migraine last night, and I was up and down for 5 hrs trying to get rid of it- I have convinced myself the subs are the cause of the migraines after 9 continuous days use.

    I skipped my Sub this morning, for fear of another migraine, and held out till about 11am and dosed 30mgs hydro, about 1/3 my usual dose before my taper began on 11/27 - and after dosing -all was right with the world - actually it was to big a dose- I have a busy schedule thru Saturday and cant deal with a incapacitating migraine- so i'm trying to continue my taper on hydros till Saturday and try to finish up back on subs- I will probably have to dose tonight- i'll try to skip it but will only use 15mg if needed- I was down to .50 subs- so Sunday I'll re-induct at .50 - .75 sub and work on finishing my taper on the subs- or until the migraines return- very frustrating to get this far and slip back.

    This is not an ideal plan, but I wont go back to the way I was.

    I will post thru tomorrow and then off to the woods I go- which should be good for me- I hope. Should be back online Sunday sometime after noon.
    DravenDomnq likes this.
    Bogey

  16. #16
    DravenDomnq is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogey59 View Post
    Thanks again Draven- so being on this forum only makes sense if I am open and honest- so after two steps forward I am taking a half step back today thru Saturday. Another full blown migraine last night, and I was up and down for 5 hrs trying to get rid of it- I have convinced myself the subs are the cause of the migraines after 9 continuous days use.

    I skipped my Sub this morning, for fear of another migraine, and held out till about 11am and dosed 30mgs hydro, about 1/3 my usual dose before my taper began on 11/27 - and after dosing -all was right with the world - actually it was to big a dose- I have a busy schedule thru Saturday and cant deal with a incapacitating migraine- so i'm trying to continue my taper on hydros till Saturday and try to finish up back on subs- I will probably have to dose tonight- i'll try to skip it but will only use 15mg if needed- I was down to .50 subs- so Sunday I'll re-induct at .50 - .75 sub and work on finishing my taper on the subs- or until the migraines return- very frustrating to get this far and slip back.

    This is not an ideal plan, but I wont go back to the way I was.

    I will post thru tomorrow and then off to the woods I go- which should be good for me- I hope. Should be back online Sunday sometime after noon.
    That's great that you're not only sticking to your plan, but getting out into the woods as well!! Nature has always helped me find peace, so hopefully it does for you too. Also awesome that you're sticking to your plan, and just taking it one day at a time! Sometimes we have to take a little step back in order to move forward, and we definitely have to do this at our own individual pace. Hopefully today sees you well, and that your migraine is more manageable today!!

  17. #17
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    Well, that didn't work- total fail!
    Got home, and threw back a handful like they were bar nuts. I should have seen this coming, if I have access - I will use- I did look back thru logs I have kept over the year and previous attempts to stop using and found some patterns to avoid-

    So I gave all my hydros to the wife and she is to dispense thru Saturday at 20 mgs in am and 20-30mgs pm- on Sunday she is to not leave any out - she sleeps lates on Sunday's and that should help me re-induct on the subs with no access to AM hydro dose.

    I may need some check ups by Monday to make sure this doesn't lead to a 30day Bender -to much progress to go back to day 1- hoping the trip to the woods helps

  18. #18
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    I'm off to the woods- nurse Ratchet is in charge of despensing so hopefully I'm back on track- will be back on Sunday- have a great weekend all!

  19. #19
    Ricky71 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogey59 View Post
    I'm off to the woods- nurse Ratchet is in charge of despensing so hopefully I'm back on track- will be back on Sunday- have a great weekend all!
    Flush those hydros down the toilet!

    Don't forget the title of your thread - "Opiate Detox Using Subs, this time I'll do it the right way!"
    DravenDomnq likes this.

  20. #20
    Bogey59 is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks Ricky, hold your comments in high regard, they were used due to the migraine- that's my excuse- I believe the subs may have triggered. I just couldn't jump at .60 subs and also felt it was in my best interest to stop subs for a few days.

    Back from the woods and restarted subs on Monday- I think I got my dose wrong because Monday was rough, today I'm back at .50 with .25 in my pocket if needed- I think I need to stabilize again on .75 subs for a week and see where I'm at. I spent 4 days back on a low dose of hydro at 50 mg a day 20- 25% of my normal usage- I am hoping the return to subs doesn't trigger further migraines in the next 7-10 days.

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