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Questions about my Suboxone withdrawl
  1. #1
    Hoping4theBest is offline Junior Member
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    Question Questions about my Suboxone withdrawl

    Hello everyone! I am a 27 year old single mother. I am also recovering from an addiction to pain killers and have been taking Suboxone for 2 years now. I want to be normal again. All I did was trade one addiction for another. This one is just legal.... I am tappering myself down at the moment. Currently I am at 4mg a day from my original 16mg. I've got a few questions about what to do now. I have done quite a bit of research but some of my questions are still unanswered and I am hoping that some of you may be able to help. I just started on this dose so how long should I stay here? When should I tapper down again and what should I go down to? Also, I've seen suggestions about the Thomas Recipe and taking L-Tyrosine, vitamin supplements, etc...When should I start those? Now, while I'm tappering or wait until I finally take the jump? Another thing...went to get B-6 that people suggest and noticed that there is also B-12 and B-Complex as well. Would one of those be better than B-6. Any other tips or advise are greatly appreciated. Also, are there any other single mothers of young children out there that had done or are trying to do this? I would love to know what you did to get through! I'm worried my little girl won't understand....Thanks again guys and sorry for all the questions!

  2. #2
    jeep2001 is offline Member
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    I found that getting down to 2 is quite easy....Most doctors over prescribe. Once you have enough in you body the rest just so to say is a wast. What kind of pain pills did you take and how much? I have been on sub for 3-4 years coming of methadone after a pain pill run in to 40-150 of oxy. You can get clean but usually staying clean is a big problem for an addict. I found hope, understanding and many good friends though NA and would suggest going to a group. Many people are addicts, don't try and figure it out for yourself..talk to them!

  3. #3
    Hoping4theBest is offline Junior Member
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    Hi jeep2001, I was taking around 10 or more tab 10s a day. Started taking them after a surgery. I didn't think about NA meetings. I bet that is a great outlet. Thank you! I feel pretty confident about not relapsing on tabs. I've taken several precautions to avoid situations/people that would cause me to backtrack. An addict can never be too careful though and can never say that it will never happen again though. I'm actually more concerned about the Suboxone, however. Personally the addiction to it seems SOOOO much stronger than my original one. Have you been able to kick sub or are you in the process? Thanks so much for replying!

  4. #4
    rennie86 is offline Member
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    Hey Hoping! I just want you to know that you are not alone! I am 28 years old and mom to a 3.5 year old boy! I've raised him myself. His biological father has never really been a part of his life because he chose dope and the streets over us. My fiancé has been a part of my son's life for the past 2 years though and we just moved into a house together last Sept. I am currently tapering off of 4 straight years of Sub use! I was on 3 mg when I decided to taper off for good but was on much higher doses before that. I just dropped from 0.75mg to 0.6mg two days ago. It really hasn't been too bad. It takes me about a week to stabilize at these small doses but it is absolutely doable! You have to try and get past the anxiety and fear of "what it's going to be like..." It's not that bad, It's really not. You can take it slowly and you should not be bed ridden during your taper. I have been able to go to work, care for my son, and keep up with the house. Lately, I've been having some symptoms in the middle of the night but it's nothing like a full on opiate withdrawal! The way I like to describe it is: ANNOYING but not unbearable. You will be okay and we are all here for you! By the way, 4 mg is great! It shouldn't be too difficult for you to get to 3mg from there!
    Please keep us updated! I can really relate to you and your situation! Your little one will be okay.
    -Renee
    Iluv2smile likes this.

  5. #5
    Hoping4theBest is offline Junior Member
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    Hi again! I'm so excited to find someone with a simular situation to mine rennie86! My ex-husband/daughter's father is also still on dope. He is in her life somewhat but not the way a father should be and it's because of his addiction. That among many other things is what split us up. I was ready to change and he wasn't. I have been with my current boyfriend for a little over 2 years and he doesn't do anything. He used to party some when he was younger but has never really battled with addiction. He is extremely understanding and is helping me with this. It is encouraging to hear that your taper is going so well! Gives me hope. This is my 3rd day on the 4mg dose and I woke up kind of achey. My arms and shoulders mostly and my wrist and elbow joints are bothering me. The discription you gave is perfect: ANNOYING. Nothing I can't handle though. I don't know if that's a sign that I went down to this dose to quick or if it's just normal. Either way I'm not going back up. Just going to ride the uncomfortable feeling out. My mood and everything else is fine. Just having the achey feeling. Anyways, Thank you for the support. It means a lot to talk to people going through the same thing that I am. I'm not alone! YAY!

  6. #6
    jeep2001 is offline Member
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    I am getting ready to go for it nice and slowly...unfortunately I got back into percs and subs at the same time thinking it would be easier to get off the percs if they help me get off subs.....very very stupid. I am at 2 now and as soon as I am completely stable am going to go to 1.3 as all I have is 8mg pills, they can be spit with a good pill cutter that way accurately. Not sleeping or eating great but taking a multi vitamin, and drank a bit of boost the first few days off the percs. The best thing for sleep is lots of exercise, do not get hooked on sleeping pills they are just as bad as anything!

  7. #7
    HarrySmooth is offline Advanced Member
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    Hi There Hope!
    I feel ya Dear, I REALLY do! I was on 15-200mg of oxy/day and have relapsed more times than I can count....and always go back to the Subs...but THIIS time I actualy MADE IT!! WOOO HOOOOOO!!.
    The biggest problem I have encountered on my many many times on Subs Therapy, is that ALL Doctors OVER-Prescribe! They AL wanna start ya out on 16mg or MORE, and it is absolutey LUDICRIS!!!!!
    The Standard Taper Plan we ALL here on the forums use is the Plan developed by one of our "Esteemed" ane most respedted members "Robert" who retired a while back..but his plan MORE than llives on!
    Seein that your already ON the Subs, there is no need to "Induct"" back onto them....so what I would recommened is for you to begin a taper plan.....yoou say your on 4mgs/day now, down from 16 right? WOW....16mg/day...Un REAL!LOL......gut neiter here nor there now...
    Ok, I would begin now staying on the 4mg\day for 4-5 days..then beggin reducing by 25% every 4-5 days...Follow me? So if your on 4mg/day now....stay there for 4-5 days then drop 25% down to 3mg. Then hang there on 3mg/day for 4-5 more days then drop by 25%again down to 2.25mg/day...etc etc, until your down to .5mg/day.....then after 4 or 5 days at .5mg just make your JUMP!!! (Jump down to ZERO! NADA...Nothing! Your Done! ) If you are Nervous jumping at .5mg you can always taske a .125 sliver for a couple of days but most people have no prob jumping from .5mg.......If you have ANY problem whatsoever.....just contact me and I will answer any questions you may have....and/or I will send you the link to Robert_325's taper plan.......
    sue hop this helps hon!!! Worked for me, and MANY MANY others here!!!!
    Lemme know!!!!!!!
    Your Pal Harry Smooth

  8. #8
    Hoping4theBest is offline Junior Member
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    I wish I had found these forums a long time ago! I really appreciate all the advise and support! It's very encouraging to hear how everyone else has either beat their addictions or on their way. Thanks HarrySmooth for the taper plan and I would love the link! I'm def. going to try that route. I've also had failed attempts before, but I have a feeling that this time will be different. Have you or has anyone else heard of or tried the Thomas Recipe? I think that most people use it when they go cold turkey but I have thought about incorerating the vitamins and the other stuff it suggests into my tappering. Or should I wait until my final jump before I do that? Any advise on that? I have so many mixed emotions right now. I feel very determined and hopeful compared to any other time, but at the same time I'm scared of failing. The good thing is that I came clean to my loved ones about my present and past addictions recently. Before I kept it secret because I was afraid that they would be disapointed in me. Luckily, they have been very supportive and understanding. I know I can do it this time. I just wish it was over with now. Again, thank you all for responding to my posts and for all the help. It really means a lot to me!

  9. #9
    Hoping4theBest is offline Junior Member
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    Hey Jeep! You are not stupid. As addicts, we are always willing to try any method to get off of these. Right now tappering slowly seems like a good idea to me too. I've alway tried to rush through and get it over with, but it seems like I just go to my addictiion as soon as I'm faced with a stressful situation. I also have the 8 mg pills. I'm wonderling how I'm going to divide my doses once they get below 1mg a day...I can only get them so small before they crumble. Also, having the same trouble with the sleep thing. It's 3:53 as I am typing currently. I wake up several times through the night despite taking my klonopin that my doc perscribed me. I am not going to make a habit out of it though and am taking it responsibly and only when absolutely nessasary. I don't want to trade an addiction for an addiction...yet AGAIN. It seems like an endless merry-go-round, dosn't it? Thanks for the advise on staying hydrated. I know that I do not drink near as much water as I need to. Also am planning on trying the vitamin thing as well but I am confused as to when I should start taking them. I want them to be as affective as possible. I've recently bought L-Tyrosine, B-12, and a multi vitaminl. Just wondering if I should hold off on them until I take the final jump.(hoping they will be more effective at that time if I wait) or if it's best to go ahead and start them so that my body has time to get them in my system.(Really don't know how the vitamin thing works). Anyways, thank you for posting your progress and thoughts on tappering. Hopefully, we will be able to say that we are both CLEAN...VERY soon! Thanks for the support and I'm wishing you the best of luck as well!

  10. #10
    HarrySmooth is offline Advanced Member
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    It is SOOO awesome that you have a supportive family....that in itself can help FAR more than you know! I had to do this On my Own and ALONE....and it was Horrible!!! My 1st "go around" with Withdrawals was a NIGHTMARE, as the Dr OVER Prescribed the Subs to me and sent me into PWS (Precipitated Withdrawals) Which happens when you are already in Opiate W/D's then take too large of a dose of Suboxone...and lemme tell ya, its like Opiate withdrawal on STEROIDS!!!! UGH.....HORRIBLE!I thought I was gonna climb the WALLS! But your going to do just fine Hon....your already down to 4mgs, so tapering down should be Nooooooo Problem for you! You GOT THIS! The Taper is the Easy part....STAYING Clean is the Hard part...for me at least....temptation is but a Phone call away, and this is the 1st time I have been 100% CLEAN in MANY MANY Years! So I KNOW if I can do it.....you are a SHOE in!!!!!!! Hang in there kiddo, and remember....this is NOT a Race....ya just gotta finish thats all!!!! We're all with ya baby!!!!!
    Harry
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoping4theBest View Post
    I wish I had found these forums a long time ago! I really appreciate all the advise and support! It's very encouraging to hear how everyone else has either beat their addictions or on their way. Thanks HarrySmooth for the taper plan and I would love the link! I'm def. going to try that route. I've also had failed attempts before, but I have a feeling that this time will be different. Have you or has anyone else heard of or tried the Thomas Recipe? I think that most people use it when they go cold turkey but I have thought about incorerating the vitamins and the other stuff it suggests into my tappering. Or should I wait until my final jump before I do that? Any advise on that? I have so many mixed emotions right now. I feel very determined and hopeful compared to any other time, but at the same time I'm scared of failing. The good thing is that I came clean to my loved ones about my present and past addictions recently. Before I kept it secret because I was afraid that they would be disapointed in me. Luckily, they have been very supportive and understanding. I know I can do it this time. I just wish it was over with now. Again, thank you all for responding to my posts and for all the help. It really means a lot to me!
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-10-2015 at 08:25 AM.

  11. #11
    rennie86 is offline Member
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    Hey Hoping! I am so glad that you've been posting! Our stories are so similar it's crazy! I really will be here for you as much as I can during your taper. I still have at least 3 more drops to go in my taper. I always struggle for the first several days of my drops which is why I spend about 2 weeks at each one. It takes me about a week to get consistent on my new dose and then another week to stabilize. Are you still having symptoms on 4mg? Getting from 4 to 3 shouldn't be bad. It's a mental adjustment but the physical stuff shouldn't be any big deal. I think the Thomas Recipe will be helpful too. How long do you plan on staying at each drop? I was just wondering when you were going to make your next one but you need to feel stable on 4 first. I hope you are doing well!
    Have a good weekend! Ttyl

  12. #12
    Hoping4theBest is offline Junior Member
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    Hi Harry and rennie!

    Thanks for checking in on me! Yah, I've been tappering for quite some time now. On Monday though I got upset and ended up taking 16mg that day. Went back down to my usual 8mg on Tues. and then dropped to the 4mg Wed. I was so tired of being afraid of that next step that I just went for it. Also tired of using Sub as a crutch! That was before I knew about Robert's Plan. That is what I'm going to do now. I think that bindge on Monday is what made it so rough on me yesterday. My joints were hurting sooo bad. Woke up feeling normal today. I'm going to make sure I'm stable on the 4 mg for a few more days and then go to the 3mg that was recommended by you guys. In hindsight...I should have went from 8 to 6mg first but didn't know that at the time. Plus, I've already done it and am not going back.

    Thanks for all the answers Harry and sorry I'm asking so many questions. I just want to do this right this time. Tired of failing when it comes to this. I'm a perfectionist and it drives me crazy when I have trouble with something. Yes, my family is amazing! I was scared initially because when I was 18 I was addicted to meth and I can still see the dissapointment in their eyes. It took me a long time to win back their trust. I was afraid when I told them about the subs that they would finally decide that they were done with me. Decided I was tired of hiding things from them and I finally just told them all what was going, and that I wanted to quit the subs and it went much better than expected. I think the difference was that at that time I had no intention on quitting. I didn't have a reason to. I haven't touched that stuff in about 8 years. If I can do that I can do this! Plus I have my daughter to think of now. That's my main motivation!

    Rennie, I actually ran across your thread yesterday. You've been through a lot. It really helps to read other peoples experiences and see their strength and determination. I think between my family's support and the support that I'm getting from these forums, that I WILL be able to do it this time. Anyways, if I feel good tomorrow I will go to the 3mg on Monday. That's the plan so far. I'm just going to listen to what my body tells me to do. Keep me updated on your progress as well!

    Thanks again guys and have a great day!

  13. #13
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarrySmooth View Post
    .....then after 4 or 5 days at .5mg just make your JUMP!!! (Jump down to ZERO! NADA...Nothing! Your Done! ) If you are Nervous jumping at .5mg you can always taske a .125 sliver for a couple of days but most people have no prob jumping from .5mg.......

    Hey Harry - With all due respect for all you've accomplished and all you have done here in the way of helping others, I hope you don't mind if I say something about the above suggestions you mentioned? I mean NO disrespect in any way, but wanted to inject what's been suggested here with the sub tapering process as of late. Hope you understand.

    We usually recommend tapering sub down to at least .25mg, and if a person can reduce even LOWER it's definitely to their benefit and advantage. I firmly believe the lower a person gets in sub dose the easier that landing is gonna be symptom wise. Jumping from .5mg is certaily ok, and many have done that with great success. Robert did himself and we all know how it worked for him. But it does seem to matter that going lower is quite beneficial. I honestly believe that Robert himself would suggest it now as we all continue to learn more and more everyday about this great tool called Suboxone!

    Taking a .125mg sliver after jumping at .5mg kinda defeats the purpose and confirms that tapering lower will make a difference. That sliver wouldn't be required. A sliver is suggested once, maybe twice DURING the taper process and only when the dose is lower than say 1mg for example. If a sliver is required near the final dose or after the jump, might as well stay on the small dose in my opinion.

    And even though I myself didn't use it, the day skipping process can make a world of difference once the dose is as low as possible. I certainly wish I would have used it and my own landing, though was fairly easy with no harsh symptoms, would have been even easier. To me the day skipping if highly UNDER rated and I think everyone should give it a try.

    Just my own thoughts here Harry and really hope you'll agree. If not I certainly understand and again no disrespect aimed at you. Congrats on your own success and glad you're now clean and free of all that garbage. Hope you stick around and continue helping those that need it. You have plenty to offer. Take care.

    -Randy

  14. #14
    jeep2001 is offline Member
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    Hey Hope.....you mind if I call you that, Sorry it took me so long to reply, I had a scary weekend, don't want to say much about it but it wasn't good. I'm good at picking up the pieces some time. Was just wondering if you would like to work the 12 steps with me. I think it might help, I feel confident that we will get help from the seniors of the sight, and I'm sure lots of others would like to follow along. So what do you say!

  15. #15
    jeep2001 is offline Member
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    Do you have a book? Does Anyone know where to read it on line?

  16. #16
    jeep2001 is offline Member
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    STEP ONE
    "We admitted that we were powerless over our addiction,
    that our lives had become unmanageable."

    It doesn't matter what or how much we used. In Narcotics
    Anonymous, staying clean has to come first. We realize that we
    cannot use drugs and live. When we admit our powerlessness
    and our inability to manage our own lives, we open the door
    to recovery. No one could convince us that we were addicts. It
    is an admission that we have to make for ourselves. When some
    of us have doubts, we ask ourselves this question: "Can I control
    my use of any form of mind or mood-altering chemicals

    Most addicts will see that control is impossible the moment
    it is suggested. Whatever the outcome, we find that we cannot
    control our using for any length of time.

    This would clearly suggest that an addict has no control over
    drugs. Powerlessness means using drugs against our will. If we
    can't stop using, how can we tell ourselves we are in control? The
    inability to stop using, even with the greatest willpower and the
    most sincere desire, is what we mean when we say, "We have
    absolutely no choice:' However, we do have a choice after we
    stop trying to justify our using.

    We didn't stumble into this Fellowship brimming with love,
    honesty, open-mindedness or willingness. We reached a point
    where we could no longer continue using because of physical,
    mental, and spiritual pain. When we were beaten, we became
    willing.

    Our inability to control our usage of drugs is a symptom of
    the disease of addiction. We are powerless not only over drugs,
    but over our addiction as well. We need to admit this fact in order
    to recover. Addiction is a physical, mental and spiritual disease
    that affects every area of our lives. .

    The physical aspect of our disease is the compulsive use of
    drugs: the inability to stop using once we have started. The
    mental aspect of our disease is the obsession, or overpowering
    desire to use, even when we are destroying our lives. The spiritual
    part of our disease is our total self-centeredness. We felt that we
    could stop whenever we wanted to, despite all evidence to the
    contrary. Denial, substitution, rationalization, justification,
    distrust of others, guilt, embarrassment, dereliction, degradation,
    isolation, and loss of control are all results of our disease.
    Our disease is progressive, incurable and fatal. Most of us are
    relieved to find out we have a disease instead of a moral
    deficiency.

    We are not responsible for our disease, but we are responsible
    for our recovery. Most of us tried to stop using on our own, but
    we were unable to live with or without drugs. Eventually we
    realized that we were powerless over our addiction.

    Many of us tried to stop using on sheer willpower. This action
    was a temporary solution. We saw that willpower alone would
    not work for any length of time. We tried countless other
    remedies - psychiatrists, hospitals, recovery houses, lovers, new
    towns, new jobs. Everything that we tried, failed. We began to
    see that we had rationalized the most outrageous sort of nonsense
    to justify the mess that we made of our lives with drugs.

    Until we let go of our reservations, no matter what they are,
    the foundation of our recovery is in danger. Reservations rob
    us of the benefits that this program has to offer. In ridding
    ourselves of all reservations, we surrender. Then, and only then,
    can we be helped to recover from the disease of addiction.

    Now, the question is: "If we are powerless, how can Narcotics
    Anonymous help?" We begin by asking for help. The foundation
    of our program is the admission that we, of ourselves, do
    not have power over addiction. When we can accept this fact,
    we have completed the first part of Step One.

    A second admission must be made before our foundation is
    complete. If we stop here, we will know only half the truth. We
    are great ones for manipulating the truth. We say on one hand,
    "Yes,I am powerless over my addiction;' and on the other hand,
    "When I get my life together, I can handle drugs:' Such thoughts
    and actions led us back to active addiction. It never occurred to
    us to ask, "If we can't control our addiction, how can we control
    our lives?" We felt miserable without drugs, and our lives were
    unmanageable.

    Unemployability, dereliction and destruction are easily seen
    as characteristics of an unmanageable life. Our families generally
    are disappointed, baffled and confused by our actions and often
    desert or disown us. Becoming employed, socially acceptable and
    reunited with our families does not make our lives manageable.
    Social acceptability does not equal recovery.

    We have found that we had no choice except to completely
    change our old ways of thinking or go back to using. When we
    give Our best, it works for us as it has worked for others. When
    We could no longer stand our old ways, we began to change
    From that point forward, we began to see that every clean day
    is a successful day, no matter what happens. Surrender means
    not having to fight anymore. We accept our addiction and life
    the way it is. We become willing to do whatever is necessary to
    stay clean, even the things we don't like doing.

    Until we took Step One, we were full of fear and doubt. At
    this point, many of us felt lost and confused. We felt different.
    Upon working this step, we affirmed our surrender to the
    principles of N.A. Only after surrender are we able to overcome
    the alienation of addiction. Help for addicts begins only when
    we are able to admit complete defeat. This can be frightening,
    but it is the foundation on which we built our lives.

    Step One means that we do not have to use, and this is a great
    freedom. It took a while for some of us to realize that our lives
    had become unmanageable. For others, the unmanageability of
    their lives was the only thing that was clear. We knew in our
    hearts that drugs had the power to change us into someone that
    we didn't want to be.

    Being clean and working this step, we are released from our
    chains. However, none of the steps work by magic. We do not
    just say the words of this step; we learn to live them. We see for
    ourselves that the program has something to offer us.
    We have found hope. We can learn to function in the world
    in which we live. We can find meaning and purpose in life and
    be rescued from insanity, depravity and death.

    When we admit our powerlessness and inability to manage
    our own lives, we open the door for a Power greater than
    ourselves to help us. It is not where we were that counts, but
    where we are going.
    Hoping4theBest and Iluv2smile like this.

  17. #17
    HarrySmooth is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Rand,
    Good Name Dude....my name is actually "Randy" as well....Harry Smooth is a very old nickname of mine....I'll tell ya the story behind it some day...lol
    In regards to your post....you are 100% correct.....in some respects.......BUT.....Many MANY folks here have followed Roberts plan TO the letter, jumping at .5mg.....in fact, more have succeeded following Roberts plan than those that have strayed from it!!! Remember Rand....the faster you tqper and jump, the better!
    What you are saying has its merits, for people that are not as strong willed as others, and want to drag it out.....but in all honesty Rand....Robert wrote the book on Subs taper, and hundreds, if not Thousands have succeeded usiing it and jumping qt .5mg.......but ya kknow....whatever "floats your Boat" and works for you is fine with me! But I stick by my Guns (and Roberts) and I stand by making your jump at .5mgs.......
    If for some reason, someone doesnt feel comfy jumping at .5....then by all means, drop another 25% or so and do your skip days, then Jump! Whatever works for you!
    Keep in mind Rand, that .25mgs is such a losw dose its almost negligible.... if you cant jump at .5....your gonna have the same problem jumpiing at .25 or below....its alll in yoour head man......once your at .5, your ready......Trust me Rand!
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy35 View Post
    Hey Harry - With all due respect for all you've accomplished and all you have done here in the way of helping others, I hope you don't mind if I say something about the above suggestions you mentioned? I mean NO disrespect in any way, but wanted to inject what's been suggested here with the sub tapering process as of late. Hope you understand.

    We usually recommend tapering sub down to at least .25mg, and if a person can reduce even LOWER it's definitely to their benefit and advantage. I firmly believe the lower a person gets in sub dose the easier that landing is gonna be symptom wise. Jumping from .5mg is certaily ok, and many have done that with great success. Robert did himself and we all know how it worked for him. But it does seem to matter that going lower is quite beneficial. I honestly believe that Robert himself would suggest it now as we all continue to learn more and more everyday about this great tool called Suboxone!

    Taking a .125mg sliver after jumping at .5mg kinda defeats the purpose and confirms that tapering lower will make a difference. That sliver wouldn't be required. A sliver is suggested once, maybe twice DURING the taper process and only when the dose is lower than say 1mg for example. If a sliver is required near the final dose or after the jump, might as well stay on the small dose in my opinion.

    And even though I myself didn't use it, the day skipping process can make a world of difference once the dose is as low as possible. I certainly wish I would have used it and my own landing, though was fairly easy with no harsh symptoms, would have been even easier. To me the day skipping if highly UNDER rated and I think everyone should give it a try.

    Just my own thoughts here Harry and really hope you'll agree. If not I certainly understand and again no disrespect aimed at you. Congrats on your own success and glad you're now clean and free of all that garbage. Hope you stick around and continue helping those that need it. You have plenty to offer. Take care.

    -Randy
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-11-2015 at 08:46 PM.

  18. #18
    HarrySmooth is offline Advanced Member
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    Dont worry Hope,
    just follow Roberts Taper Plan to the lletter......begin the Thomas Recipe, but being carefull to only use the Benzos for 3 to 5 days.....NO MORE, and you will be fine! Trust me.....Ive been there more times than I can count.....as I said.....getting Clean is the EASY part......STAYING Clean is the Hard Part!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoping4theBest View Post
    Hi Harry and rennie!

    Thanks for checking in on me! Yah, I've been tappering for quite some time now. On Monday though I got upset and ended up taking 16mg that day. Went back down to my usual 8mg on Tues. and then dropped to the 4mg Wed. I was so tired of being afraid of that next step that I just went for it. Also tired of using Sub as a crutch! That was before I knew about Robert's Plan. That is what I'm going to do now. I think that bindge on Monday is what made it so rough on me yesterday. My joints were hurting sooo bad. Woke up feeling normal today. I'm going to make sure I'm stable on the 4 mg for a few more days and then go to the 3mg that was recommended by you guys. In hindsight...I should have went from 8 to 6mg first but didn't know that at the time. Plus, I've already done it and am not going back.

    Thanks for all the answers Harry and sorry I'm asking so many questions. I just want to do this right this time. Tired of failing when it comes to this. I'm a perfectionist and it drives me crazy when I have trouble with something. Yes, my family is amazing! I was scared initially because when I was 18 I was addicted to meth and I can still see the dissapointment in their eyes. It took me a long time to win back their trust. I was afraid when I told them about the subs that they would finally decide that they were done with me. Decided I was tired of hiding things from them and I finally just told them all what was going, and that I wanted to quit the subs and it went much better than expected. I think the difference was that at that time I had no intention on quitting. I didn't have a reason to. I haven't touched that stuff in about 8 years. If I can do that I can do this! Plus I have my daughter to think of now. That's my main motivation!

    Rennie, I actually ran across your thread yesterday. You've been through a lot. It really helps to read other peoples experiences and see their strength and determination. I think between my family's support and the support that I'm getting from these forums, that I WILL be able to do it this time. Anyways, if I feel good tomorrow I will go to the 3mg on Monday. That's the plan so far. I'm just going to listen to what my body tells me to do. Keep me updated on your progress as well!

    Thanks again guys and have a great day!

  19. #19
    DDAVE45 is offline Member
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    harry ...... .25 mg of suboxone is by no means negligible. Robert himself actually told me to go as low as possible when I got off a few years ago.

  20. #20
    HarrySmooth is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Dave,
    Pardon my Mistake....I, in NO way meant "Negligible" ....bad choice of words on my part, but what I meant was basically, if your down to .5mg, MOST people have NO problem jumping from that low a dose! now to ME.....25mg IS quite Negligible...as my Tolerences are SO high, .5mg is actually pretty negligible to ME.......THanks for correcting me on that Dave!!!!!

    Hare
    Quote Originally Posted by DDAVE45 View Post
    harry ...... .25 mg of suboxone is by no means negligible. Robert himself actually told me to go as low as possible when I got off a few years ago.
    DDAVE45 likes this.

  21. #21
    Hoping4theBest is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeep2001 View Post
    Hey Hope.....you mind if I call you that, Sorry it took me so long to reply, I had a scary weekend, don't want to say much about it but it wasn't good. I'm good at picking up the pieces some time. Was just wondering if you would like to work the 12 steps with me. I think it might help, I feel confident that we will get help from the seniors of the sight, and I'm sure lots of others would like to follow along. So what do you say!
    Hey Jeep. I don't mind you calling me Hope if you don't mind me calling you Jeep. Yes! I will def. do this with you. I honestly do not know what each of the 12 steps are specifically but I will look it up. It's helps not to do something like this alone. Even though I have a supportive family...none of them know how HARD this really is. Have you started your taper yet or have you decided when you're going to begin? Hope to hear from you soon!

  22. #22
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarrySmooth View Post
    Remember Rand....the faster you tqper and jump, the better!

    if you cant jump at .5....your gonna have the same problem jumpiing at .25 or below....its alll in yoour head man......once your at .5, your ready......Trust me Rand!

    With no attempt aimed at any arguing Harry, I just can't agree with some things you said. You say "the faster you taper and jump the better" and that will usually give more people problems than it will ever help them.

    I'm a believer that a sub taper should be slow and steady with dose reductions ONLY when completely stable and feeling quite well on each dose.. Rushing a taper is NEVER a good idea in my opinion. That's when problems occur for nearly everyone. I've seen many here try to get it over with quickly, rush through it to make the jump, and then experience all kinds of issues. It defeats them mentally and some never make it back.

    And those that have been on subs for looong periods of time, including years in some cases, really need to take it much slower than those that have only been on subs a short time. Their best bet is to take extra time between dose reductions and stretch their taper out.

    And not EVERYONE is ready to jump at .5mg. I certainly wasn't and I was as mentally prepared as anyone you'll ever meet. I guarantee you that much. If you look back you'll see that Robert never had anyone to help him along. He was "flying blind" when he was tapering. He thought at the time that .5mg was PROBABLY ok to jump from. And it IS for SOME people and in some cases. Some have no subs remaining, and some just really want it over and could care less. Many here have jumped at much higher doses such as 1mg, 2-3mg, even 4mg and HIGHER!!! Some make it, some don't. Robert didn;t have anyone that could tell him reducing further might be in his best interest. Again, my opinion.

    I think the "new evidence" that's been learned has clearly shown that those who continue reducing their dose beyond the .5mg range fair FAR better than those that jump at .5mg. Some have made the jump at .5mg and a bit higher, jumped, then days later found they just couldn't do it as symptoms made it extremely difficult. Some kept going, but others had to get back on and taper lower Harry. So why not do so in the first place? MIght save some time and heartache.

    Anywat that's my position on the matter. I don't mean to come off as some kind of "sub expert" either as I'll never admit to being one despite my experience with it. I just really think it's better for eveyrone to take it easy when tapering and getting as low in dose as possible. Take care Harry and thanks for responding.

    -Randy
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  23. #23
    Hoping4theBest is offline Junior Member
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    sorry Jeep. I just reread that you are at 2 now going to 1.3. My brain is mush. Anyways, Pleas let me know how it's going when you get the chance!

  24. #24
    HarrySmooth is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Rand,
    1st off, NEVER worry about offending me or think your "arguing" just because you have a different point of view Brother! You'll find I am a VERY easy person to get along with, and have the point of view that "EVERYONE is Different", and not ALL the rules apply to Everyone! LOL....When I say "Faster is Better" I mean just that! Some Doctors, including mine, insist that ya HAVE to stay on the Subs "Long Term" for them to be effective, and to be frank....thats just a Crock of BS!!!! The Shorter time you stay on the Subs the Better off you are Rand! PERIOD!
    The Longer you stay on em, the Longer you HAVE to stay on em!!!!
    Now I am talking about Sub Therapy for Opiate Cessation Randy....Im not talking about people that have been on Subs for YEars and Years....Im talking about your common Opiate Addict like myself, thats been on Oxycodone, Hydrocodone, Fentanyl, etc for Years and are ready to get OFF the Pills and live a normal Life! And Most Doctors prescribing Subs have NO CLUE how to prescribe them! My Gawd, the first time I ever got prescribed Subs my Dr started me on a Whopping 16mg/day!!!!! And of course that was before I know what I know now from coming here to the Forums, and Ill tell ya right now, that 16mgs put me into the WORST PWS (Precipitated Withdrawal Symptoms) I have ever been thru in my LIFE!!!! Ive NEVER been SO sick in my entire Life!!!!
    Thank GOD I found this site, and Roberts Taper Plan....and I started my taper completely over again the RIGHT way! I downloaded the COWS Sheet, and monitored my W/D's until I hit a 26-28 on the COWS Sheet and began taking .5mg doses every 60-90 mins until I stabilized at 4mgs.....then from there I reduced 25% every 4 days and Jumped when I got to .5mg!!!!
    Sure Rand, EVERYONE is different....especially the people that have been on Subs for YEARS, but the 25% Reduction every 4-5 days applies to even THEM as well! Sure, some people have to go 5, 6 or even 8 days but Im tellin ya, the quicker you can stabilize on your 25% Drops, and get OFF the Subs, the better off you will be!
    Follow me Rand?
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy35 View Post
    With no attempt aimed at any arguing Harry, I just can't agree with some things you said. You say "the faster you taper and jump the better" and that will usually give more people problems than it will ever help them.

    I'm a believer that a sub taper should be slow and steady with dose reductions ONLY when completely stable and feeling quite well on each dose.. Rushing a taper is NEVER a good idea in my opinion. That's when problems occur for nearly everyone. I've seen many here try to get it over with quickly, rush through it to make the jump, and then experience all kinds of issues. It defeats them mentally and some never make it back.

    And those that have been on subs for looong periods of time, including years in some cases, really need to take it much slower than those that have only been on subs a short time. Their best bet is to take extra time between dose reductions and stretch their taper out.

    And not EVERYONE is ready to jump at .5mg. I certainly wasn't and I was as mentally prepared as anyone you'll ever meet. I guarantee you that much. If you look back you'll see that Robert never had anyone to help him along. He was "flying blind" when he was tapering. He thought at the time that .5mg was PROBABLY ok to jump from. And it IS for SOME people and in some cases. Some have no subs remaining, and some just really want it over and could care less. Many here have jumped at much higher doses such as 1mg, 2-3mg, even 4mg and HIGHER!!! Some make it, some don't. Robert didn;t have anyone that could tell him reducing further might be in his best interest. Again, my opinion.

    I think the "new evidence" that's been learned has clearly shown that those who continue reducing their dose beyond the .5mg range fair FAR better than those that jump at .5mg. Some have made the jump at .5mg and a bit higher, jumped, then days later found they just couldn't do it as symptoms made it extremely difficult. Some kept going, but others had to get back on and taper lower Harry. So why not do so in the first place? MIght save some time and heartache.

    Anywat that's my position on the matter. I don't mean to come off as some kind of "sub expert" either as I'll never admit to being one despite my experience with it. I just really think it's better for eveyrone to take it easy when tapering and getting as low in dose as possible. Take care Harry and thanks for responding.

    -Randy
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-11-2015 at 11:21 PM.

  25. #25
    HarrySmooth is offline Advanced Member
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    Oh, one more thing Rand....
    As long as I have been here on this site....I have heard, and helped with more people jumping at .5mgs, than at any other dose! Sure, I have heard people that had a bit of a rough time jumping at .5 and dropped once more to .35/.25 etc....but that is so rare its hardly worth mentioning.....almost Every person I have personally worked with, and most all of the folks I have watched on here have jumped at .5 with little or no problem whatsoever.....
    So I dunno Bro.....just my Experience.....and Ive had quite a bit of it, LOL....(as ashamed as I am to say so, LOL)
    but I DO Respect your opinion, and I DO Agree with you! There ARE some folks that do better jumping off at less than .5mg.....
    jussayin in MY experience, .5 has been the Median jumping point!

  26. #26
    Hoping4theBest is offline Junior Member
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    WOW!!!!!

    I don't really know what to say to all this dissagreeing going on. To be honest, when I logged on and saw all of this it was very discouraging to me. Kind of feel a little hopeless right now. I don't know what to do. Please stop arguing on this thread. It is not encouraging at all even if it is not directed towards me. I am sure you all know that trying to stop an addiction is hard and stressful enough without having to read people fighting over what or what not to do. I know that you all have my best interest at heart though but please no more arguing. I appreciate ALL advice and opinions even if they are not the same.

    Harry and Randy, I am very appreciative to the both of you for the knowledge that you have shared and will consider everything said. Especialy since you have both won the battle against addiction. Congratualations, and I hope to be joining you both soon on the other side. I hope to hear more advice/tips from the both of you. Thank you so much for caring!

    Now....to what I originally logged on to do post an update on my progress!

    As I said before, Wednesday was my 1st day on 4mg. I did pretty well until Friday when I woke up( from a not so great sleep) with my arms aching. It sort of hurt in my elbows and wrists as well. That evening I had a horrible headache and was depressed.

    Fortunately, I woke up feeling much better on Saturday, feeling basically normal with no symtoms! Today was even better. It will probably sound weird but I usually couldn't do ANYTHING hardly before taking my first dose. Well, I got up took a shower, did housework etc. and waited until almost 1pm before taking my dose today! I'm pretty sure I'm ready for the next drop! I will be going down to 3mg tomorrow.

    Even though I'm still taking 4mg I have noticed that my energy level is slightly higher now, and that I'm beginning to come out of the suboxone cloud. I know I am nowhere close to the end of my journey but I think that I have taken a giant step toward it! I'm just going to listen to what my body tells me.

    Thanks for the continued support everyone!

  27. #27
    Hoping4theBest is offline Junior Member
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    so far my plan is to jump at 0.5 but if I don't feel ready at that point I will go lower. Pretty confident about 0.5mg. We'll see when I get there. I hope no one is mad or dissapointed with my plans but I think I can do it

  28. #28
    Hoping4theBest is offline Junior Member
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    One more thing I meant to ask this earlier.... I am on the 8mg pills. How in the world do I divide them into the accurate dosages that I will need once it get past like 2mg. They crumble so easily. Thanks again everyone!

  29. #29
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Hope - I wasn't arguing at all, only expressing a difference of opinion. Of course I have YOUR best interest in mind or I wouldn't have responded. Sorry for hi-jacking your thread. But I'm just adamant that going as LOW as possible when tapering subs is ALWAYS in the best interest of anyone attempting to get off subs with the LEAST amount of symptoms when jumping. That's all.

    You have to do what you feel is best for YOU and that goes for everyone here. Your life, your call. Sometimes there will be different advice and suggestions. Weigh all the options and use what you feel will work for you. If you want to jump at .5mg then do it. If you want to reduce further then go that way. I want you to be successful and to be happy. You're not doing it for me, you're doing this for YOU!!!

    I'll be around if you need my help. I'll follow your progress. Take care.

    -Randy
    HarrySmooth and Iwantoff2013 like this.

  30. #30
    rennie86 is offline Member
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    Hey Hope! It's good to hear from you. How was your weekend? It sounds like you are stabilizing on 4mg! That is awesome! I can understand what you're saying about feeling better on a lower dose! I feel so much better on these lower doses than I ever did at a dose above 4mg! I have continued to feel better the lower I go too. I actually feel almost normal again! There is no fog following me around. I used to wake up feeling so weak, out of breath, and bogged down but I really don't feel that anymore. It's awesome!
    I hope you have a good week and I will check in with ya later!
    -Renee

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