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Quick Sub taper
  1. #1
    DarthSater is offline Junior Member
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    Default Quick Sub taper

    Hello all,

    I am new here so bear with me please. I have been on oxycodone for the better part of 6 years. At the worst i was up to 250 mg of oxy per day. The last few months, I didnt even get high from it anymore. Just took it to keep WD's at bay. A few years ago I CT'd from a lower dose and it was miserable. I made it to 10 days and jumped back on due to back pain.

    Here I am now. 14 days no oxycodone. I tapered down quickly to 60mg per day. I started subs a day later. I had access to only 2.5 8mg strips. On the first day I took maybe 2 mg in ,5 or 1mg increments only when I felt horrible. Every few days I cut my strips in half and only took the Subs for 13 days. I am out of subs now. My last dose was 48 hrs ago. It was such a minute dose. I could barely see the strip and could not taste it at all.

    So here I am now and I am a nervous wreck. The only sumptoms I have are anxiety that WD's are going to start, little bit of diarrhea, and lack of energy.

    My question is, am I going to get full blown WD's?

    I should mention that my lowest dose of sub was probably .222 or os for 2 days before I jumped. HArd to tell though because the bits of the strip were so small.

    I want to be me again. Also, I cry at everything. Even SW movies that I;ve seen 100;s of times.

  2. #2
    Ben39 is offline Junior Member
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    Others will correct me bbut from what I heard it's harder to get off subs and the other one (forgot its name) than oxy. That is why I never took subs.

  3. #3
    DarthSater is offline Junior Member
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    I know they are. However, I only took them for 2 weeks and in tiny doses. Its been over 48 hrs now and I am ok. Just nervous as heck that they are going to start.

  4. #4
    DarthSater is offline Junior Member
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    I am hoping the WD's are not going to be so bad because I only took small amounts and short time. if you do the math. I could only average 1.42 per day for 14 days since I only had 20mg available total. I was taking waaaay less by days 11-14

  5. #5
    DarthSater is offline Junior Member
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    I guess everyone is busy with the upcoming holiday.

  6. #6
    annie trainoff is offline New Member
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    You haven't been on the Subs very long thank God. The withdrawals that you are having are basically from the oxy since that's what you've been taking for years. Subs are horrible. I have been switching from Sub to Norco for the last 4 months. Was on Sub for 6 years and it started to turn on me. Receptors are so used to one opiod they have a hard time even accepting another type. I have been in different stages if withdrawal since Sept 1st. I literally feel your pain and cry too!! I l wish I hadn't started any of these drugs! It's too bad you don't have acess to any more Sub. You could actually take it the way it was designed... to taper and wean down slowly. Hang in there
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  7. #7
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by annie trainoff View Post
    You haven't been on the Subs very long thank God. The withdrawals that you are having are basically from the oxy since that's what you've been taking for years. Subs are horrible. I have been switching from Sub to Norco for the last 4 months. Was on Sub for 6 years and it started to turn on me. Receptors are so used to one opiod they have a hard time even accepting another type. I have been in different stages if withdrawal since Sept 1st. I literally feel your pain and cry too!! I l wish I hadn't started any of these drugs! It's too bad you don't have acess to any more Sub. You could actually take it the way it was designed... to taper and wean down slowly. Hang in there


    Oh Annie...

    You've been switching from subs to Norco for the last 4 months and you call subs horrible? I promise you that subs/Suboxone is NOT horrible drug, it's the doctors that prescribe it incorrectly, keep patients on it way too long, and the people/addicts that use it improperly that are the cause of ALL of the horror stories. When used correclt subs actually work very, very well.

    Are subs a miracle cure? No, they certainly are not. But thet ARE a great tool to use when all other methods of getting clean have failed numerous times. Subs are intended to be used for the time necessary to curb your addict ways, usually between 2-3 months, maybe longer, maybe a bit less time. You induct on the LOWEST possible dose, remain there around a week, then begin the taper process of getting your dose as low as possible before jumping off. Use it that way and your experience using subs will be a much more positive experience.

    Don't bounce back and forth between subs and Norco. Pick one or the other. Taper or CT off the Norco, or use the subs correctly and give them an honest chance.

    Take care,
    Randy

    P.S. If you were on subs for 6 years it was way too long, and could certainly cause all kinds of problems.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 12-20-2016 at 07:19 AM.

  8. #8
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthSater View Post
    I am hoping the WD's are not going to be so bad because I only took small amounts and short time. if you do the math. I could only average 1.42 per day for 14 days since I only had 20mg available total. I was taking waaaay less by days 11-14

    Hey Darth -

    The thing you have to keep in mind is that subs are STRONG, really, really strong with a real long half life. Half life is how long it takes half of a drug to leave your system. Subs have a half life between 24-72 hours.

    Subs should be taken in a steady and controlled plan. You should take the same dose everyday for several days then reduce by 25% or so and keep repeating that process. When you take different doses over several days it kinda confuses your system as to "what's next". The good news is that you weren't taking huge amounts over many weeks or months.

    The bad news is even though you were "only" taking around a mg or so for a few days that is actually a LOT of sub seeing as how strong it is. You had a total of 20mg of sub that you took. Some of that is still in your system due to that half life.

    Any wd's won't usually begin until the 3rd of 4th day again due to the half life. How severe they may be is anyone's guess. We're all different with different metabolisms. I would play the wait and see game for now. If the wd's are going to hit they will do so very soon. But they could also not make an appearance at all. It's so hard to say.

    Go about your business and try not to worry about it over over-think this too much. The bigger picture is what are you going to do about your addiction? What are you going to do to remain clean long term? I used subs and tapered off correctly. I now have well over 2 years clean. I owe that to attending both NA and AA meetings for face to face support. I also know that one little pill or other addictive substance will ingnite my addiciton and I'm off to the races again.

    Hope this helps a little. Wish I had more to offer. See how it goes. If symptoms do pop up just treat them with OTC supplements and wait them out, they will pass given a little time.

    Randy
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  9. #9
    DravenDomnq is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey DarthSater, welcome to the forums! Busy time of the year, so just saw your thread now. I agree completely with Randy about just waiting it out and seeing how you're able to handle things. I have no experience with subs, but do have a lot of experience with tapering off Oxy. Made the jump just over a month ago now, and haven't looked back since.

    While we all experience things differently, the symptoms you've described are very common and will pass. Like Randy also said, we all metabolize things differently, so how long they'll last varies. I'm glad you're on these forums and hope you continue to share what you're going through so people best know how to give you support. There's a lot of great people on here, just have to be patient sometimes for a response, especially during a holiday season.

    Hope you continue to hang in there!!

  10. #10
    DarthSater is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks all for the support. It's now 60 hrs post last micro dose of sub .165 mg. 15 days no oxy. I'm doing ok. No major symptoms. Some stomach upset and chills. Fatigue and motivation problems seem to be Minimal now. They were bad last week.

    I'm going to stick it out. As for what I am going to do going forward. I can say that I am never going back to that drug. I Have the support of my wife and will be attending my first NA meeting tonight.

    Fingers crossed that I don't have bad WD's. 60 hrs in and so far so good.


    Thanks all.
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  11. #11
    DarthSater is offline Junior Member
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    I gotta be honest. I have access to one more 8mg strip. Even though it's almost been 70 hrs I'm thinking of getting it. Can someone advise me or HELP!

  12. #12
    Ricky71 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthSater View Post
    I gotta be honest. I have access to one more 8mg strip. Even though it's almost been 70 hrs I'm thinking of getting it. Can someone advise me or HELP!
    Absolutely not! You will just be prolonging the detox if you take any more sub, you have 70 hours clean, stay the course! Drink lots of water to stay hydrated and to help flush your system. You're doing great! Best of luck to you... God bless us all!

  13. #13
    DarthSater is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky71 View Post
    Absolutely not! You will just be prolonging the detox if you take any more sub, you have 70 hours clean, stay the course! Drink lots of water to stay hydrated and to help flush your system. You're doing great! Best of luck to you... God bless us all!
    I didn't do it. My friend is holding it and I told him just now not to give it to me at all costs.

    Ricki. Any thoughts as to how bad I'm going to get WD? Mostly mental right now. Little chills and anxiety over WD's. last time I had WD's was terrible and I didn't make it.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 12-20-2016 at 03:44 PM. Reason: Add content

  14. #14
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Your doing great stay strong this will pass. I thought I was going to die but I made it you can to.Good luck..

  15. #15
    DarthSater is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lvg nghtmare View Post
    Your doing great stay strong this will pass. I thought I was going to die but I made it you can to.Good luck..
    It's now over 72 hrs. I don't know what to make of my situation. I have anxiety mostly because I'm afraid of hitting WD's. I also have clammy hands which I think is from anxiety. Stretching a lot and sneezing too. Little bit of chills now and again. Not much else. Nothing that bad and they all come and go here and there.

    My main issue is the anxiety anticipating full blown WD. Wish I knew what was in store. It's just my personality. I've always been an anxious person.

    Anyone who did a quick taper like me can she some light?

  16. #16
    DarthSater is offline Junior Member
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    By the way 74 hrs in right now and I actually feel good. Just little anxiety and chills. Nothing else. Am I in the clear?
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  17. #17
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Read through some threads/posts what helped me was Randy's,UncleLeo,Ming,Ricky's,Dravens and many more. It got me first to quit CT and helped me know what to expect through the acute wd's.Hang in there it takes a bit but it will pass. Take one day at a time....
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  18. #18
    Ricky71 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthSater View Post
    I didn't do it. My friend is holding it and I told him just now not to give it to me at all costs.

    Ricki. Any thoughts as to how bad I'm going to get WD? Mostly mental right now. Little chills and anxiety over WD's. last time I had WD's was terrible and I didn't make it.
    You are experiencing some withdrawal symptoms right now obviously, as to how long they'll last or if/how much worse they'll get is anybody's guess? Re-read the post from Randy, he said it best regarding your questions and concerns!

    You can use the items in the Thomas Recipe for opiate withdrawal (minus the benzo) to help ease some of the withdrawal symptoms? Remember to stay hydrated, drink lots and lots of water!

    Here's a link to the Thomas Recipe - https://www.drugs.com/forum/featured...wal-35169.html
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  19. #19
    DarthSater is offline Junior Member
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    I have read many threads. I have also been using n-acetyl-l-tyrosine, b6, B12, and Imodium 6mg per day. I have some Ambien and Zanaflex which help me get some sleep.

    If this is the worst of my WD's I will be fine. It's the anxiety and fear of what's coming that's getting me down.

    I tried CT a few times and couldn't make it 48 hrs it was so bad. Waiting it out now. 76 hrs.

  20. #20
    Ricky71 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthSater View Post
    I have read many threads. I have also been using n-acetyl-l-tyrosine, b6, B12, and Imodium 6mg per day. I have some Ambien and Zanaflex which help me get some sleep.

    If this is the worst of my WD's I will be fine. It's the anxiety and fear of what's coming that's getting me down.

    I tried CT a few times and couldn't make it 48 hrs it was so bad. Waiting it out now. 76 hrs.
    The oxy has been out of your system for a while now. The sub you used masked the oxy withdrawal but now you have to deal with the withdrawals from the sub itself. Low energy and sleep issues will linger around for a while and are usually the last things that return to normal. Anxiety and/or depression is completely normal during detox and the early stages of recovery, it will pass! Keep us posted?

  21. #21
    DarthSater is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky71 View Post
    The oxy has been out of your system for a while now. The sub you used masked the oxy withdrawal but now you have to deal with the withdrawals from the sub itself. Low energy and sleep issues will linger around for a while and are usually the last things that return to normal. Anxiety and/or depression is completely normal during detox and the early stages of recovery, it will pass! Keep us posted?
    I will. Definitely. I'm hopeful that since I took SUBS so short a time that I'll be fine. In all honesty, I had minor WD symptoms for almost the whole 2 weeks I took the subs. I am really beginning to think WD's aren't going to hit me that hard. I'll keep y'all updated. Hopeful... hoping to be rid of this addiction.

  22. #22
    DarthSater is offline Junior Member
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    Well because I'm an anxious bug of a guy i went to CVS and bought a 14 panel urine drug test which checks for all opiates, including oxy and suboxone etc. I even called their 1800 no to make sure it would detect suboxone.

    I just took the test and am so happy to report that according to the results, there are NO opiates of any kind in my urine after 78 hrs or so. My anxiety level has dropped to next to zero! I have no symptoms whatsoever anymore. Maybe an occasional chill or sneezing fit.

    However, that said, I think lots of my "symptoms" have been psychosomatic to a certain degree. Waking up tomorrow will be a good test. That will be over 85 hrs drug free and would represent the longest I've gone without any kind of opiate in my system.

    Fingers crossed!

    PS. The negative drug test did wonders for my anxiety about Suboxone WD. It's 80 hrs now, if I don't have major symptoms by now, I don't think I'll be getting them.
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  23. #23
    Ricky71 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthSater View Post
    Well because I'm an anxious bug of a guy i went to CVS and bought a 14 panel urine drug test which checks for all opiates, including oxy and suboxone etc. I even called their 1800 no to make sure it would detect suboxone.

    I just took the test and am so happy to report that according to the results, there are NO opiates of any kind in my urine after 78 hrs or so. My anxiety level has dropped to next to zero! I have no symptoms whatsoever anymore. Maybe an occasional chill or sneezing fit.

    However, that said, I think lots of my "symptoms" have been psychosomatic to a certain degree. Waking up tomorrow will be a good test. That will be over 85 hrs drug free and would represent the longest I've gone without any kind of opiate in my system.

    Fingers crossed!

    PS. The negative drug test did wonders for my anxiety about Suboxone WD. It's 80 hrs now, if I don't have major symptoms by now, I don't think I'll be getting them.
    Good for you! Our minds most certainly can make things worse than they really are! If your symptoms do not worsen in the next couple of days then I would say you are in the clear for sure?

    NA/AA, drug addiction counseling, etc. are necessary for long term success, make a plan? Best wishes... God bless us all!
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  24. #24
    DarthSater is offline Junior Member
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    Woke up this morning and felt pretty good. Not many symptoms at all. 86 hrs and counting. So far so good.
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  25. #25
    DarthSater is offline Junior Member
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    Hour 92. Still no major WD symptoms. Does anyone know if I'm in the clear?

  26. #26
    DarthSater is offline Junior Member
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    Also does anyone know why I'm craving Milk so much?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthSater View Post
    Hour 92. Still no major WD symptoms. Does anyone know if I'm in the clear?
    One would think you're in the clear with the physical wd's if you took a drug test and nothing showed up and it's been 4 days. I tapered down to a 1/4 of a strip and took that 1/4 for close to a year, and then just stopped,and I didn't really get wd symptoms even 12 days in. Then I slipped and took the same amount for about 3 months and just stopped again. I made my original post 11 or 12 days into stopping bc I really didn't have any physical wd symptoms other than sneezing and the chills and was expecting the worst to happen. Now here we are 40 days later and I never got any severe wd symptoms. You have to get your mind right though!!!! Find something to do to keep your mind occupied from thinking something bad is inevitable. Best of luck and stay positive..
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  28. #28
    DarthSater is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by PensFan View Post
    One would think you're in the clear with the physical wd's if you took a drug test and nothing showed up and it's been 4 days. I tapered down to a 1/4 of a strip and took that 1/4 for close to a year, and then just stopped,and I didn't really get wd symptoms even 12 days in. Then I slipped and took the same amount for about 3 months and just stopped again. I made my original post 11 or 12 days into stopping bc I really didn't have any physical wd symptoms other than sneezing and the chills and was expecting the worst to happen. Now here we are 40 days later and I never got any severe wd symptoms. You have to get your mind right though!!!! Find something to do to keep your mind occupied from thinking something bad is inevitable. Best of luck and stay positive..
    Thanks for the reply. I'm 101 hrs in now and seem to be fine. A chill here and there. Occasional yawn and Teary eyes. Poops are better and energy is coming back slowly. I'm actually tired today and looking forward to sleeping. Thank God for Ambien.

  29. #29
    DarthSater is offline Junior Member
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    More than half way through day 5 and physically feel fine. Little loose stools. Lack of motivation is present. Depresssion too. This feeling in my head of a cloud over everything. Like I can almost feel my brain struggling to cope without all the endorphins provided by the oxy or the Suboxone. Almost feel brain tired. Like it's working so hard to reach homeostasis. I don't know. 3 days til Christmas and I need to get going.
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  30. #30
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    Congratulations on day5 another day clean&sober. Stay strong one day at a time. You can do this.
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