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Started sub induction and still feeling bad. Plz help
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    Default Started sub induction and still feeling bad. Plz help

    I started my sub induction yesterday at 1600-1mg then 1800-0.5mg then 1900-0.5 and i started to feel okay. I felt like i "wanted" more but didnt 'need' more so i stopped. Today i took 1mg at 8am and then 1mg at 1200 because i felt really jittery, muscle aches, sweaty, hot n cold and very bad. I am wondering if 2 mg was enough or maybe i should not have split the dose at such a low #...... does it take a few days to feel ok? I used to be on sub and then i switched to methadone to just get the sub physical addiction out so i could induct and taper properly........ i know i dont have precipitated w/d but i am not feeling okay either. Did i do something wrong or does it take a while to feel better? Should i be splitting the dose? I have been looking forward to this freedom for sooooo long and it just seems so out of reach because i feel soooo bad and in the past i broke, but now i need to be there for my 3 kids and to feel like a human being. I felt sub stability before, this is not stable. Please advise.

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    dsh12345 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricecrispy1111 View Post
    I started my sub induction yesterday at 1600-1mg then 1800-0.5mg then 1900-0.5 and i started to feel okay. I felt like i "wanted" more but didnt 'need' more so i stopped. Today i took 1mg at 8am and then 1mg at 1200 because i felt really jittery, muscle aches, sweaty, hot n cold and very bad. I am wondering if 2 mg was enough or maybe i should not have split the dose at such a low #...... does it take a few days to feel ok? I used to be on sub and then i switched to methadone to just get the sub physical addiction out so i could induct and taper properly........ i know i dont have precipitated w/d but i am not feeling okay either. Did i do something wrong or does it take a while to feel better? Should i be splitting the dose? I have been looking forward to this freedom for sooooo long and it just seems so out of reach because i feel soooo bad and in the past i broke, but now i need to be there for my 3 kids and to feel like a human being. I felt sub stability before, this is not stable. Please advise.
    I am sorry to hear you are still feeling bad. I came from oxy 200-300mg/day to subs 45 days ago, now on 0.125mg ready to jump.
    Switching from methadone to suboxone is very very tricky due to how long lasting it is.

    Can you give a bit more history.... How many years have you been using, how long were you on methadone and at what dose lately before the switch to subs? How long did you wait between the last dose of methadone and starting subs? Did you score yourself on the COWS chart and did you hit a 26?


    I have never used methadone, but I have spent countless hours reading stories, and aagain, methadone to suboxone can be tricky. It can take a full 3 days off methadone before you start subs to avoid PWD, Robert used to have a 3 day minimum that was almost a rule of his. Also, since methadone lasts so long, there's a long period where you got both subs and methadone both in your system fighting each other, and as the methadone slowly washes out over the next coupel days, that can also cause some discomfort.


    Alot of the resident experts here came from methadone to subs, so that can be very knowledgeable resource, and i'm sure one of them will reply shortly, but if you could give us that basic information that would be relaly helpful because no one can give you a good solid answer unless we have an idea how long you were on methadone before subs, how much methadone, and how long you waited between last meethadone dose to first sub dose, and if you scored yourself on the COWS to induct, what your score was would be great too.

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    dsh12345 is offline Senior Member
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    By the way, when you say you used methadone to get off subs so that you could restart subs and induct properly... that is a bit of flawed thinking. If your sub dose was too high, the only way to get it down is to take less than what your brain wants, and it'll slowly adjust to get by on this newer lower dose.

    If you needed 8mg of subs a day to get by, and you took basically an equivalent dose of methadone, your tolerance hasn't change and when you return to subs you will still need that 8mg of subs you previously needed. Switching to a different opiate doesn't "reset" everything with the subs and allow you to just start a new lower dose instantly. Your tolerance to opiates is all still there if your dose of methadone was high enough. If you were on a low dose methadone, then maybe that time being on methadone dropped your tolerance to the point where you could re-induct on a lower dose of subs.

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    dsh12345 is offline Senior Member
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    One last thing... Subs have a long half life as you know, so doses from previous days are counting in to help stabilize you.


    Someone stable and maintained on 2mg/day suboxone likely has 6mg total in their blood due to contributions from previous days doses. Say, this person stopped the suboxone and relapsed for a month on oxycodone. If they try to CT it for 24hrs and get back on the same 2mg/day suboxone, they might find they are in a rough first couple days and that the 2mg/day dose is not holding them. Well, if you look at the situation that 2mg/day sub they used to be on was a consistent amount that created blood levels of 6mg, so really their body was needing 6mg blood levels.

    Restarting 2mg/day after a relapse might result in a coupel rocky dyas because it will take a couple days of dosing at 2mg/day again before the blood levels are built back up to the 6mg they used to require. That could also be a reason why you don't feel nearly as well as you know you've been able to feel before on subs.

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    I have been on sub for 5 months, i got down to 4 mg. then i switched to 30mg methadone thinking i will feel better because in the past, before i was on sub, i was on 105 mg methadone which i felt stable and good at. Well the 30mg for 2 months did not hold me off as i thought but it did reset my tolerance to be able to induct at the lowest possible dose. I know it was flaud thinking but at the time it felt like a good idea. I wanted a break from my fighting with this addiction. I took my last methadone dose last week monday. I had extensive surgery where i was taking oxycodone about 150-200mg a day for the pain. I had 6 days off methadone. Then i had 27 hrs off the pills and scored 29 on the COWS. I was ready. The relief sure did come around 8pm but today did not feel okay........ i guess i will wait. I really do not want to take more than i should need. I felt okayish at 2mg. But should i take it all at once because it is such a low dose?
    History- used for 3 years on and off. Ended up using 300-400mg oxy a day. Then 11 months on 105mg methadone then about 5 months sub to 2 months on 30mg methadone to where i am at now.
    Should i be taking more? Should i try taking it all at once? Will i stabilize and feel okay at my dose in few days? Ive tried this before and failed, but i want to do it again. My kids are growing up and i want to besober and enjoy life as it is and not rely on being high to make it through my days and sorrows

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    dsh12345 is offline Senior Member
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    It sounds to me like you don't have enough sub to hold you.

    You took 2mg, and next day felt classic WD symptoms, right? Sounds like 2mg not enough. Look carefully at the Robert taper plan. The dose is irrelevant, he even says that. The idea is much more important that you take enough to feel comfortable and stable, regardless of the dose number. Trying tyo be aggressive and trying to hold yourself at a lower dose than you need will result in your brain never catching up to the dose as each time it is close, you drop again, etc. so you end up always feeling bad as you are always in mild mild WD and you think the subs are what's making you feel bad, and it starts a vicious mental cycle.


    If you just literally read the words you are typing.... you are saying you took 2mg and it's not enough as it barely held off the WD's for a couple hours and a night or so. Sounds like you need to take more if you continue to have classic WD symptoms which they seem to be. GOod luck, am rooting for you.
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    So what should i take tomorrow? 3mg? All at once or split?

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    dsh12345 is offline Senior Member
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    Another final thing, the dosing conversion to methadone to any other opiate is very variable... alot of the online calculators wont even spit out a number for methadone due to how all over thge map it is - its very long acting and metabolism is differnt for everybody so it can be like 24-72hours depending on the person. That makes it hard guessing a good sub dose that will hold you, the recent oxycodone use also complicates things as that took over but only for a litte bit, plus the methadone is likely still washing out, etc etc.

    Either way, read your symptoms. If still having symptoms, sounds like need more than 2mg.

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    dsh12345 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricecrispy1111 View Post
    So what should i take tomorrow? 3mg? All at once or split?
    I don't want to just start dishing answers and specific things like what you should or shouldn't do with specific numbers, because at the end of the day I am just guesstimating things. However, this is not rocket science either let's be real now. So, you could do it a number of ways. If you feel bad now, start taking slivers like 0.5 every hour, or 0.25mg every hour until you find the symptoms go away. That can give you an idea of how much additional sub beyond 2 you need to hold you.

    However, since it's the late at the end of the day, you prob don't got all night for that. If you wanna try that in the AM, take your 2mg dose, and keep adding a bit til you get stable. Ort maybe you feel so awful now that you won't be sleeping and are in for a miserable night, if so then obviously start adding more sub right now.

    Or, as you were suggesting, guess a new number... say 3, and just start trying 3 tomorrow, might take a full day or two to see if ur new guess works, which might be a bad experience if u end up wrong and needing to spend 2 bad days to realize that, etc./

    Or,whatever. The bottom line is it sounds like you need more sub. How much, when to take, etc that is up to you. Whatever plan you put in place, just get more sub.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 04-24-2017 at 09:19 PM.

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    dsh12345 is offline Senior Member
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    And finally, remember, no matter how WRONG your sub dose is.... no matter how badly you miss it too high or too low.... you will always start to feel progressively better every day because your brain is always trying to get used to feeling normal on whatever it's currently getting. Definitely a positive thing for the time being.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dsh12345 View Post
    And finally, remember, no matter how WRONG your sub dose is.... no matter how badly you miss it too high or too low.... you will always start to feel progressively better every day because your brain is always trying to get used to feeling normal on whatever it's currently getting. Definitely a positive thing for the time being.
    Thanks dash! I def have enough sub in my pocket so im not worried about taking more i just wanted to start low but i read robets plan like 10 times and i know i need to feel stable. Ill try adding some now because i feel the restlessness and body aches creeping on. Feeling like no sleep tonight unless i feel better. Thanks for all the advice! I pray that your jump will be easy!!

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    Ricky71 is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricecrispy1111 View Post
    So what should i take tomorrow? 3mg? All at once or split?
    Rice, I remember you from last year but I haven't read through your old threads again? Switching to methadone from subs was not something you should of done but it is what it is! Since you're back on subs what's your ultimate goal once you are on a stable dose? Are you following Robert's sub therapy/taper plan?

    The following is directly quoted from Robert's plan -
    "The induction process should last for a period of 4-5 days. The first day is when the patient is initially stabilized. On the second day the induction dose is split into two equal doses as this will help with making tapering easier later in the process. At the end of either three or four days we find that the dose used to stabilize the patient can be reduced by 25% on the following day and this becomes the lowest effective dose. Doing all of this takes 4-5 days depending on the individual. This is where the patient’s dose remains until they begin to taper down the dose.

    Allowing 4-5 days provides ample time to adjust the induction dose as may be required to maintain the stability of the patient. Those patients who don’t stabilize properly have problems throughout their therapy. That is always the case!"

    If you haven't already please read through Robert's sub plan carefully and throughly? Here's a link to Robert's plan -
    https://www.drugs.com/forum/suboxone...apy-66109.html

    The two most important things to remember while taking subs is to take your dose/doses at the same time/times everyday and secondly do not do a reduction until you are completely stable on your current dose! You should be dosing twice a day 8-10 hours apart, for example if you were taking 3mg/day you would split the dose evenly. Again, as an example you would dose 1.5mg at 9am and then dose 1.5mg at 6pm. You can obviously adjust these times to suit your schedule but remember to take your doses at the same times everyday! You would switch to dosing to once a day when your taper gets down to 1mg or less.

    I would recommend to start with 3mg/day starting tomorrow and see how that holds you over? Remember the first 4-5 days of the induction phase is used to make adjustments so you can find the lowest effective sub dose? Remember split your daily dose evenly at the same times everyday 8-10 hours apart. If you are feeling bad right now you can take a .25mg dose to hold you over until tomorrow morning? You'll get stable soon and you'll be just fine if you follow Robert's plan exactly as outlined! Keep us updated? Best of luck to you... God bless us all!

    PS
    If you haven't already it would probably be a good idea to read through your old threads? There is a lot of great information that can definitely help you in your current situation?

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    I agree with Ricky. A lot of it is mental so you probably will feel relief or more 'normal' once you're at a stable dose. Just know you won't ever feel the euphoria you may feel on other drugs so there's that. The idea is to be stable but you don't want to overdo it in the subs. The idea of taking the doses twice a day is to change addictive behaviors like feeling a compulsion to dose multiple times a day. You can do it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky71 View Post
    Rice, I remember you from last year but I haven't read through your old threads again? Switching to methadone from subs was not something you should of done but it is what it is! Since you're back on subs what's your ultimate goal once you are on a stable dose? Are you following Robert's sub therapy/taper plan?

    The following is directly quoted from Robert's plan -
    "The induction process should last for a period of 4-5 days. The first day is when the patient is initially stabilized. On the second day the induction dose is split into two equal doses as this will help with making tapering easier later in the process. At the end of either three or four days we find that the dose used to stabilize the patient can be reduced by 25% on the following day and this becomes the lowest effective dose. Doing all of this takes 4-5 days depending on the individual. This is where the patient’s dose remains until they begin to taper down the dose.

    Allowing 4-5 days provides ample time to adjust the induction dose as may be required to maintain the stability of the patient. Those patients who don’t stabilize properly have problems throughout their therapy. That is always the case!"

    If you haven't already please read through Robert's sub plan carefully and throughly? Here's a link to Robert's plan -
    https://www.drugs.com/forum/suboxone...apy-66109.html

    The two most important things to remember while taking subs is to take your dose/doses at the same time/times everyday and secondly do not do a reduction until you are completely stable on your current dose! You should be dosing twice a day 8-10 hours apart, for example if you were taking 3mg/day you would split the dose evenly. Again, as an example you would dose 1.5mg at 9am and then dose 1.5mg at 6pm. You can obviously adjust these times to suit your schedule but remember to take your doses at the same times everyday! You would switch to dosing to once a day when your taper gets down to 1mg or less.

    I would recommend to start with 3mg/day starting tomorrow and see how that holds you over? Remember the first 4-5 days of the induction phase is used to make adjustments so you can find the lowest effective sub dose? Remember split your daily dose evenly at the same times everyday 8-10 hours apart. If you are feeling bad right now you can take a .25mg dose to hold you over until tomorrow morning? You'll get stable soon and you'll be just fine if you follow Robert's plan exactly as outlined! Keep us updated? Best of luck to you... God bless us all!

    PS
    If you haven't already it would probably be a good idea to read through your old threads? There is a lot of great information that can definitely help you in your current situation?
    Hi ricky! I remember you too from last year. My plan is to taper down to 0 using robests plan. I read it so many times. I was not looking to feel euphoria, as i already felt stability on subs before. I just wanted to feel okay. Im doing 3mg today. I split it 2mg am and 1 mg pm today and will see how it holds me. I was t thinking about doing it exactly even so i already took the dose. If i feel okay i will split it evenly tomorrow and take it from there. Thanks for the reminder and encouragement!
    Julz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Justfortodaytx View Post
    I agree with Ricky. A lot of it is mental so you probably will feel relief or more 'normal' once you're at a stable dose. Just know you won't ever feel the euphoria you may feel on other drugs so there's that. The idea is to be stable but you don't want to overdo it in the subs. The idea of taking the doses twice a day is to change addictive behaviors like feeling a compulsion to dose multiple times a day. You can do it!
    Thank you!! Its definitely a mind game too as well as physical agony. I will do my best and see how today goes. I have a good feeling about it today

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    Ricky71 is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricecrispy1111 View Post
    Hi ricky! I remember you too from last year. My plan is to taper down to 0 using robests plan. I read it so many times. I was not looking to feel euphoria, as i already felt stability on subs before. I just wanted to feel okay. Im doing 3mg today. I split it 2mg am and 1 mg pm today and will see how it holds me. I was t thinking about doing it exactly even so i already took the dose. If i feel okay i will split it evenly tomorrow and take it from there. Thanks for the reminder and encouragement!
    Julz
    Julz, I had a chance to go back and read through your old threads. You've been struggling for a while now, what will be different this time around? What's your motivation?

    There are many, many success stories from hundreds if not thousands of people that have used Robert's plan, you can be a success too but you have to follow the plan to a "T", you have to believe in the plan, believe in yourself and want this more than anything else in the whole wide world!

    Again I'm gonna recommend that you go back and read through all of your old threads! There is so much good information and advice in those threads that will definitely help you now. Also, stick with this one thread for all your questions, concerns, updates, etc. It will be difficult for others to know your complete background, the advice you have received, the questions and answers, etc., unless they go back and read all of your old threads? I can put links for your other threads on this thread if you want, let me know?

    Hang in there, follow Robert's plan, don't rush this process! Robert's plan takes roughly 6-8 weeks from start to finish. Like Randy always says, do this right the first time and you'll never have to do it again! I'm wishing you the best of luck! Take care... God bless us all!
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    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricecrispy1111 View Post
    Thank you!! Its definitely a mind game too as well as physical agony. I will do my best and see how today goes. I have a good feeling about it today


    Hey Rice -

    Hope you're stable and doing. good when you read this. Going from methadone to Suboxone can be quite difficult, but it doesn't have to be. I was on Methadone for years and my dose was over 200mgs a day and I was able to successfully make the switch. Took me several tries, but that gave me valuable experience too. I now know the right and wrong way to do it. The most dicfficult part is the time it takes in wd's before you can safely induct on the subs. It can takes days on some occasions. Glad you used the Cows and waited.

    I have to agree with Dsh that it sounds like you need more sub in you. But please don't gobble down another 1 - 4mg to find out. I'm sure you won't. Lol. When I'm helping others from my NA and AA meetings do this and they report not feeling well after a day or two I have them completely stop the sub. I'm talking about those on Methadone only here switching to subs. In some cases it's entirely possible they're still in methadone wd and the sub is covering it up.

    I have them stop the Suboxone and allow wd's to hit again. You don't have to redo the entire induction, just allow wd's to begin and when you can't stand it any longer you start with small doses and build it up until you are stable. I would go with 1mg as the first dose and wait at least 60 min. You could then add another 1mg and again wait 60 min. See how you feel at this point. You may need more sub and I suggest you take .5mg as the next dose if needed. Wait another 60 min. If more sub is required take .25mg doses until stable with little or no wd's. Sometimes doing things over can really help. I've had success many times having my friends do this.

    Please keep in mind when Robert wrote the sub plan he had no one but himself to determine the best route to take. He didn't have the benefit of hundreds of others going through the sub process to benefit him. Suboxone was relatively new. Hundreds of people, probably thousands, have used the original plan successfully. Since the time Robert wrote it we've discovered a few changes have monumental effects and make for a better experience, such as tapering lower than the .5mg Robert did works much better.

    Let me know what you think? Take care and best wishes.

    Randy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy35 View Post
    Hey Rice -

    Hope you're stable and doing. good when you read this. Going from methadone to Suboxone can be quite difficult, but it doesn't have to be. I was on Methadone for years and my dose was over 200mgs a day and I was able to successfully make the switch. Took me several tries, but that gave me valuable experience too. I now know the right and wrong way to do it. The most dicfficult part is the time it takes in wd's before you can safely induct on the subs. It can takes days on some occasions. Glad you used the Cows and waited.

    I have to agree with Dsh that it sounds like you need more sub in you. But please don't gobble down another 1 - 4mg to find out. I'm sure you won't. Lol. When I'm helping others from my NA and AA meetings do this and they report not feeling well after a day or two I have them completely stop the sub. I'm talking about those on Methadone only here switching to subs. In some cases it's entirely possible they're still in methadone wd and the sub is covering it up.

    I have them stop the Suboxone and allow wd's to hit again. You don't have to redo the entire induction, just allow wd's to begin and when you can't stand it any longer you start with small doses and build it up until you are stable. I would go with 1mg as the first dose and wait at least 60 min. You could then add another 1mg and again wait 60 min. See how you feel at this point. You may need more sub and I suggest you take .5mg as the next dose if needed. Wait another 60 min. If more sub is required take .25mg doses until stable with little or no wd's. Sometimes doing things over can really help. I've had success many times having my friends do this.

    Please keep in mind when Robert wrote the sub plan he had no one but himself to determine the best route to take. He didn't have the benefit of hundreds of others going through the sub process to benefit him. Suboxone was relatively new. Hundreds of people, probably thousands, have used the original plan successfully. Since the time Robert wrote it we've discovered a few changes have monumental effects and make for a better experience, such as tapering lower than the .5mg Robert did works much better.

    Let me know what you think? Take care and best wishes.

    Randy
    Hey randy. Thanks for the advice. I think i def need more sub. I took 2 mg in am then after 4 hrs i still felt w/d so i took 1 mg then an hr later 0.5. I think i will need to redo this process because i dont feel stable. I feel hot/cold sweats, anxiety and a doom feeling. It doesnt help that i had surgery where i cannot sit or lay on my back for 6 weeks (had surgery 1week ago today). I am in constant discomfort and feeling aweful. I have cried the better half of today and have been holding myself together to not take more sub to cover up how aweful i feel. Ill be honest, i give up quickly but this time i gotta do this. For my 3 kids, for myself, for my marriage; i was struggling for a few years going back n forth because i had to finish my nursing degree and needed to be stable to do so. Now i finished my degree and want to be drug free to become who i am meant to be. To spread joy, love and caring for the people in need. I just feel so alone and empty and flaud. The emotional pain is almost too much. But today i just took it minute by minute, listened to music, tried to study/ watch tv but the day just dragged on. I dont think this is how i should be feeling....... i am as far from stable as can be. This is it though. I dont have anymore chances to change and be free from this addiction that haunted me and my family for so many years. I want to find a sponsor and maybe some NA meetings in whitby ON canada to help me because i cant do this on my own. I truly give up and give myself to god and his plan for me because i cant live like this anymore.........
    I will stop all subs and wait until i start w/d. I have until august to get this under wraps and become who i am meant tobe without the drug shackles.
    I guess the honest truth is that im afraid of this feeling of doom and awefullness that i kept looking for an easy way out of this which i now realize does not exist. I thought i could cheat and try to switch back n forth and i even tried to switch to a short acting opiate to get the methadone out of my system to have "shorter" w/d which ended up in my tolerance getting pretty high and 1600$ out of my pocket.
    There is no easy way out. I just have to tough it out and build a support system around me to support my recovery. This forum is one of these things that is holding me strong and giving me hope tonot give up and try again and again.
    Thank you everyone!!!! I am wholeheartedly grateful.
    Julz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky71 View Post
    Julz, I had a chance to go back and read through your old threads. You've been struggling for a while now, what will be different this time around? What's your motivation?

    There are many, many success stories from hundreds if not thousands of people that have used Robert's plan, you can be a success too but you have to follow the plan to a "T", you have to believe in the plan, believe in yourself and want this more than anything else in the whole wide world!

    Again I'm gonna recommend that you go back and read through all of your old threads! There is so much good information and advice in those threads that will definitely help you now. Also, stick with this one thread for all your questions, concerns, updates, etc. It will be difficult for others to know your complete background, the advice you have received, the questions and answers, etc., unless they go back and read all of your old threads? I can put links for your other threads on this thread if you want, let me know?

    Hang in there, follow Robert's plan, don't rush this process! Robert's plan takes roughly 6-8 weeks from start to finish. Like Randy always says, do this right the first time and you'll never have to do it again! I'm wishing you the best of luck! Take care... God bless us all!
    Hey ricky.
    Yes it is a known fact i struggle with daily that i have been unable to beat this monstar already. I had excuses such as: need to graduate my degree so I needed to be stable for a while now. Now i finished my degree and am ready to better myself. My motivation is my children and my wonderful husband who has been with me through thick and thin. I am meant to be a nurse and to heal others and extend gods love and compassion to the sick ones. Without my health, i cannot be who i am meant to be. Prayer, this forum, a sponsor and meetings will be my rock and motivation to succeed this time. I will post daily and seek out support and help as needed and i WILL NOT GIVE up!!!! There is noother time but now to do this. I can and will succeed.
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  20. #20
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi there. Julz..

    Nursing is the best profession in the world !
    God knows we need more..
    But it is also a profession that one can loose oneself in..

    It is easy to become a care giver and stop taking care of oneself..

    So if you are not working as a RN now and even if you are
    I would take care of you right now!

    Set up a support system .
    Get stable
    And come up with a solidified plan..

    It can be done.
    I am a ICU a RN and worked through my whole taper.
    But I was well aware of my triggers and have a great strong
    Support system!

    If I can do this ?
    You can do it too!

    Like Randy says!
    This has to be the most important thing in the world during the taper..
    Because as most of us have found out
    There is no way to do this
    Completely pain free..

    I hope you are feeling better today..

    Just remember it does take a few days to get stable ..

    Especially going from methadone to sub!

    But it worth every ounce of discomfort you will go through..
    To be free!

    You got this!

    Bette
    Last edited by Anonymous; 04-25-2017 at 06:19 PM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iluv2smile View Post
    Hi there. Julz..

    Nursing is the best profession in the world !
    God knows we need more..
    But it is also a profession that one can loose oneself in..

    It is easy to become a care giver and stop taking care of oneself..

    So if you are not working as a RN now and even if you are
    I would take care of you right now!

    Set up a support system .
    Get stable
    And come up with a solidified plan..

    It can be done.
    I am a ICU a RN and worked through my whole taper.
    But I was well aware of my triggers and have a great strong
    Support system!

    If I can do this ?
    You can do it too!

    Like Randy says!
    This has to be the most important thing in the world during the taper..
    Because as most of us have found out
    There is no way to do this
    Completely pain free..

    I hope you are feeling better today..

    Just remember it does take a few days to get stable ..

    Especially going from methadone to sub!

    But it worth every ounce of discomfort you will go through..
    To be free!

    You got this!

    Bette
    Hi bette,
    I am studying for my NCLEX right now. I am planning to take the summer off and get this under wraps. It truly is painful and there are moments i feel okay and then i dont. Its so up and down its insanity, literally. I wish i had something to keep me busy and not just sit at home and do nothing but wallow in my sorrow :/
    I will try again tomorrow.
    Julz

  22. #22
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Definitely take your boards
    Before you take a break..

    So much on it is info learned in school
    That is easy to forget..

    Honestly it is easier to be busy during this..
    do you have to take the summer off?

    Congratulations on finishing school!
    I know it can be tough..
    But so good for the brain!

    Bette

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iluv2smile View Post
    Definitely take your boards
    Before you take a break..

    So much on it is info learned in school
    That is easy to forget..

    Honestly it is easier to be busy during this..
    do you have to take the summer off?

    Congratulations on finishing school!
    I know it can be tough..
    But so good for the brain!

    Bette
    I am currently studying for my licensing exam. I do agree i wish i was busy because the boredom is what kills it. I think too much and the symptoms really get to me. I am sl in awe of you and what you have achieved. I want to be an ICU nurse myself in sunny rook ontario. How many years have you been an RN for? I have struggled eith this addiction from my first year of nursing school and it lasted 4 years. I had a baby in between (hence i went on methadone to keep the pregnancy) and now i feel stuck. What do you do that keeps you going? What is your support system? I want what you have and am willing to follow instructions to the T. I am the worst when i am my own dictator. I truly believe that my stable dose is 4mg as it was before i switched to methadone. I will split the dose tomorrow, pray my brains off, and keep busy. Thank you for checking in again and for soreading positivity back. I really appreciate it and cherish the support. It eases my heart knowing there are people out there that truly understand and get what i am going through.
    I could not imagine tapering while working fulltime, but on the other hand i wish i was busy with work to keep my mind occupied. I decided to take the summer off to hang out with my kids at out trailer park. I have 3 little ones and once i become an RN i will mot have the luxury of having the summer off. I need to better myself and go standup boarding and breathe the fresh air and just be in nature, which i have the luxury of having this summer with my kids. My biggest deterrent is the sleeplessness and the RLS which happens mostly in my arms not legs. It breaks my spirit. But i promise when i want to break, i will post here and look for help and encouragement.
    I am ready. I can do this!!!!!!
    Thank you for your love. I feel it.
    Lvg nghtmare likes this.

  24. #24
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    Good morning guys!!!!!
    Last night after reading all the posts and sitting down and really thinking what my motivation is this time and what will make me succeed, something happened. I prayed and cried and dance myself silly and i gave in to a higher power. I felt much better. I had renowned strength and hope that this time this is it!!! I was unable to sleep and was using sleeping pills for last few days that would keep me asleep only 4-5 hrs (usually at least 10hrs) due to withdrawals. Last night i decided to just feel it. To give into the sleeplessness and the wired brain. I actually did not have any withdrawals so i believe i did stabilize but i felt like i did not sleep a second...... i feel like i was up allllll night ughhh but instead of getting up thinking 'darn im exhausted and need to get my kids up' i thought to myself "today is a great day " and started with an honest prayer. I cranked the music and danced my heart off. I feel great. I made a written plan of 2mg at 8 am 2mg at 4pm. I made a taper plan all the way down. I made alarm bells to notify me to take the meds at exactly the same time. I am READY for this !!
    Just wanted to ask if the sweats go away soon? I am drenched before i take the sub snd am still sweating buckets...... i dont feel very comfortable but i know that sub takes a bit of time to work..... i also have clonidine which helps a bit. Any suggestions? Will it go away soon? The sleep thing is what got me before so i will need to be vigilent and get some sleep whenever i can. I just feel so wired lol
    Have an awesome day warriors!!!!!!!
    Julz
    Lvg nghtmare likes this.

  25. #25
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    I find that today was a physically challenging day....... i was tired. My feet hurt. My body ached. I was not into studying so i watched several episodes of "bones". I treated myself with a relaxing day. I then cooked snd cleaned and picked up the kids from school, homework, lunches, dinner, picking up baby and doing it all myself ((hubbie worked until late). I am exhausted but my pupils look like i did an ecstacy. My mind is wired. My body is racing and vibrating :/ its so up and down. I hope it calms down a bit because this bipolar up and down rollercoaster is hard. But im not giving up! Trenching on. Will be good days like yesterday and not as good days as today. Theres always tomorrow

  26. #26
    dsh12345 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricecrispy1111 View Post
    I find that today was a physically challenging day....... i was tired. My feet hurt. My body ached. I was not into studying so i watched several episodes of "bones". I treated myself with a relaxing day. I then cooked snd cleaned and picked up the kids from school, homework, lunches, dinner, picking up baby and doing it all myself ((hubbie worked until late). I am exhausted but my pupils look like i did an ecstacy. My mind is wired. My body is racing and vibrating :/ its so up and down. I hope it calms down a bit because this bipolar up and down rollercoaster is hard. But im not giving up! Trenching on. Will be good days like yesterday and not as good days as today. Theres always tomorrow
    Hang in there. It's a bit of a rollercoaster, but the overall trend is improvement over time no matter what. Today is day 3 of clean days for me, jumped at 0.125mg and have had little no symptoms. Good energy, mood, motivation; no problems sleeping and even no insomnia. So, my point is the taper is spreading the burn slowly over weeks/months to avoid the big intense burn with a CT jump. Each second of discomfort you are feeling now is one less second of disocmfort you pay at the final jump. It will turn a mildly bad day at the end of the jump into a normal day, or a really bad day in the middle of the jump to a mild day.

    Trust the process, and the fact that you are paying this discomfort forward so that the discomfort at teh end is minimzed as much as possible. I am testament that the process is fair. I use that word "fair" for a specific reason. Think about that. This discomfort you are feeling, it WILL get paid back to you in a big way. You are not wasting this discomfort. The jump has been very easy for me because I paid the discomfort forward slowly and mildly across the taper.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsh12345 View Post
    Hang in there. It's a bit of a rollercoaster, but the overall trend is improvement over time no matter what. Today is day 3 of clean days for me, jumped at 0.125mg and have had little no symptoms. Good energy, mood, motivation; no problems sleeping and even no insomnia. So, my point is the taper is spreading the burn slowly over weeks/months to avoid the big intense burn with a CT jump. Each second of discomfort you are feeling now is one less second of disocmfort you pay at the final jump. It will turn a mildly bad day at the end of the jump into a normal day, or a really bad day in the middle of the jump to a mild day.

    Trust the process, and the fact that you are paying this discomfort forward so that the discomfort at teh end is minimzed as much as possible. I am testament that the process is fair. I use that word "fair" for a specific reason. Think about that. This discomfort you are feeling, it WILL get paid back to you in a big way. You are not wasting this discomfort. The jump has been very easy for me because I paid the discomfort forward slowly and mildly across the taper.
    Hey dash!!!! Oh my god i am so happy for you and relieved to know its not that bad. I finally fell asleep at 5am then up at 730am. Its so rough but i am tapering my first tomorrow. Ugh i know i am paying it now fairly" so that its not too bad. Do you mind posting the amount taper in numbers and how you did it? I calculated it sll down with 25% but the numbers are a bit off and i use the sub 2mg pills so lowest i can go 0.25 or 0.125
    Congrats and keep going strong!!!!!
    Julz

  28. #28
    dsh12345 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricecrispy1111 View Post
    Hey dash!!!! Oh my god i am so happy for you and relieved to know its not that bad. I finally fell asleep at 5am then up at 730am. Its so rough but i am tapering my first tomorrow. Ugh i know i am paying it now fairly" so that its not too bad. Do you mind posting the amount taper in numbers and how you did it? I calculated it sll down with 25% but the numbers are a bit off and i use the sub 2mg pills so lowest i can go 0.25 or 0.125
    Congrats and keep going strong!!!!!
    Julz


    Yes, 4, 3, 2, 1.5, 1, 0.75, 0.50, 0.25, 0.125. 4 days at each stop.

    Notice the jump from 3 to 2, 1.5 to 1, and 0.75 to 0.5 are 33% drops instead of 25%. Since I was feeling really good right at the 2mg mark and turned a big corner, I was OK with taking all those 33% drops and the 50% drops at the end I was getting impatience and just wanted off.... plus going all the way down to 0.125mg is quite low so I justified it as saying ya I dropped a little faster, but I am also going lower than most ppl before jumping.

    And also, the 0.50 to 0.25, and 0.25 to 0.125 are 50% drops. Yes a little big, felt those last 2 50% drops definitely, but didn't feel any of those 33% drops. The +8% that 33% is above the standard 25% is negligible, well within the margin of error of your pill splitting.

    If you don't want those big drops, you can add middle levels in there.. like 1.5 to 1.25mg instead of 1.5 to 1. Or, like 0.50mg down to 0.37mg instead of 0.5mg to 0.25mg. (To get 0.37, you just take 0.25 and add that to a 0.125mg). You can ever go lower on the taper to 0.06mg as the final stop as alot of ppl have done.


    For the ppl on the pills, there are other plans out there that have been come up with. One is called the micro taper method, they dissolve the pill in water and swish a certain number of mL in their mouths (all oral membranes absorb sub, doesn't have to be just under the tongue) and using this method some have tapered down very slowly and in very low doses... like 0.01mg at a time over a year down to 0.01mg and then off. If you want more info, I can find the link where they talk about it.

    It's a long long marathon doing it that way, and if I had a chance to do it over again, I would NOT have done it that way. Just too long, too slow, too much of a marathon. The 25% drops every 4 days worked for me. minimal discomfort besides a couple days in between the 0.25 to 0.125mg transition.

    I can honestly say, these past 3 days off subs, have been going fine. Much easier than the medium-bad parts of the taper.


    Also, again, coming from methadone always seems tough. A good thread - mrcardoc. Check his thread out. His thread is on the suboxone forum. He is going through the sam,e thing as you... seems to have a lot of trouble at the beginning with the mental stuff like energy/motivation/depression/mood etc but he is improving as he is tapering and so will you. Methadone is just such a beast and is so long acting... so I'm sure having that plus sub in your system, with the sub levels rising as you induct and get the first couple doses building up in you and then falling as you taper, and the methadone washing out all at the same time... makes for a roller coaster. Hang in there.

    I have been there, was there, am there, know exactly what you are going through. I am rooting for you OK.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 04-28-2017 at 12:25 PM.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsh12345 View Post
    Yes, 4, 3, 2, 1.5, 1, 0.75, 0.50, 0.25, 0.125. 4 days at each stop.

    Notice the jump from 3 to 2, 1.5 to 1, and 0.75 to 0.5 are 33% drops instead of 25%. Since I was feeling really good right at the 2mg mark and turned a big corner, I was OK with taking all those 33% drops and the 50% drops at the end I was getting impatience and just wanted off.... plus going all the way down to 0.125mg is quite low so I justified it as saying ya I dropped a little faster, but I am also going lower than most ppl before jumping.

    And also, the 0.50 to 0.25, and 0.25 to 0.125 are 50% drops. Yes a little big, felt those last 2 50% drops definitely, but didn't feel any of those 33% drops. The +8% that 33% is above the standard 25% is negligible, well within the margin of error of your pill splitting.

    If you don't want those big drops, you can add middle levels in there.. like 1.5 to 1.25mg instead of 1.5 to 1. Or, like 0.50mg down to 0.37mg instead of 0.5mg to 0.25mg. (To get 0.37, you just take 0.25 and add that to a 0.125mg). You can ever go lower on the taper to 0.06mg as the final stop as alot of ppl have done.


    For the ppl on the pills, there are other plans out there that have been come up with. One is called the micro taper method, they dissolve the pill in water and swish a certain number of mL in their mouths (all oral membranes absorb sub, doesn't have to be just under the tongue) and using this method some have tapered down very slowly and in very low doses... like 0.01mg at a time over a year down to 0.01mg and then off. If you want more info, I can find the link where they talk about it.

    It's a long long marathon doing it that way, and if I had a chance to do it over again, I would NOT have done it that way. Just too long, too slow, too much of a marathon. The 25% drops every 4 days worked for me. minimal discomfort besides a couple days in between the 0.25 to 0.125mg transition.

    I can honestly say, these past 3 days off subs, have been going fine. Much easier than the medium-bad parts of the taper.


    Also, again, coming from methadone always seems tough. A good thread - mrcardoc. Check his thread out. His thread is on the suboxone forum. He is going through the sam,e thing as you... seems to have a lot of trouble at the beginning with the mental stuff like energy/motivation/depression/mood etc but he is improving as he is tapering and so will you. Methadone is just such a beast and is so long acting... so I'm sure having that plus sub in your system, with the sub levels rising as you induct and get the first couple doses building up in you and then falling as you taper, and the methadone washing out all at the same time... makes for a roller coaster. Hang in there.

    I have been there, was there, am there, know exactly what you are going through. I am rooting for you OK.
    Wow you def gave sub a run for your money. I am very proud of you. I know what it feels like to be done and want a quicker way out. Unfortunately i have so many responsibilities that 25% or slightly less would work best for me. I totally forgot about the water dilution stuff. Thank you for reminding me. I broke the pills up into powder then rowns (as even as possible) to split up the doses.... we addicts and our habits..... seemed more accurate than just splitting the pills. My splitter is kinda crooked lol
    Its so hard to face all of your decision you made when using...... so much money gone...... debt....... but its looking up. I have such a supportive family and i know in my soul that this time i will get to the end and stay clean. My babbies and my future patients deserve a clean, happy, caring cheerful mom/nurse.
    Again thank for checking in. Im dropping from 4- to 3 tomorrow and i am splitting the dose 8am and 4pm. My alarms are set. My mind is set. My spirit is strong. Time will pass by wether i get through the storm now or later. I choose now.
    Julz

  30. #30
    Starz3 is offline Member
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    Hi Julz! I'm here rooting for you, too! I definitely relate to what you're saying about working in the health care field~it's what I do too. When I went to treatment they had a specific wing for health care providers. It was a real eye opener for me. Through the physicians, nurses, pharmacists in rehab with me, I saw the similarities in all of us who choose this kind of profession. We are care givers. What we need to learn is to also care for ourselves! Good luck to you! I'm here for you!
    Karen

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