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Sub taper,"Vision of War" I need accountability and support.
  1. #1
    Anonymous Guest

    Default Sub taper,"Vision of War" I need accountability and support.

    Hello, I will start this by quoting my favorite cartoon character Popeye the sailor "I yam what I yam" and what I am is a 58 year old addict currently tapering from 8mg 1mg suboxone and naloxone . I am on my first day at 2mg and so far so good. I know that I have some challenges ahead for sure, but after 16 months I am determined to get through this. My drug and alcohol abuse history is long and life destroying. This is for me a war for my life (whatever I can salvage) and I feel that this is probably my last chance at freedom from addiction. I have a poem taped to the wall above my computer that really helps my resolve , written by Lincoln Colcord titled " Vision of War. " I don't know how to use this keyboard like a typewriter (remember those?) , so I can't format this properly. Here it is,(Here is a mountain range at last, old man, across your easy path; No mole hills these!----bare cliffs, sharp ledges, frowning chasms, overhanging steeps; No valley, no way through--- only the pass, high up and far. Now gird your loins--- face ancient facts--- take stock of what is in you; You are brave enough--- you do not hesitate; No fear!--- you will scale a higher mountain than you climb--- you will surmount yourself'; You will be glad and amazed to find your old true self returning to you.) I want to be the man that I was designed to be before drugs! Please wise people, guide me.

  2. #2
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Lonnie. Welcome to the forum!! Here you'll find a great bunch of people who will help you and give you all the support you need. Have you seen the suboxone taper plan located in the suboxone treatment sub forum? It's the top thread marked "sticky" it has helped literally thousands of people get clean from the subs. Give it a read. I'd do it twice. You can skip the induction and go straight to tapering seeing as you're already on the subs. Basically it calls for 25% reductions every 4-7 days until you are at .25mg. Yes point 25 mg. Subs are crazy strong!! I jumped from 1mg which is still a hefty dose and trust me, you don't want to do that. It's important to make sure you are completely stable before you make a drop (no w/d symptoms) it's a marathon not a race and if you drop too soon you will basically be in w/d during the entire taper.

    How long have you been on the subs and at what dose daily?

    I'm really glad you found us!! We will get you through this. Subs can really dehydrate you so be sure to drink a lot of water, it will also help to flush the garbage from your body. Get out and get active. Go for walks, anything to get the blood flowing. Read others threads, post as much as you want or need to. Ask questions. We are all here for you.

    I gotta get back to work. But welcome again and congratulations!!
    Beef
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  3. #3
    Anonymous Guest

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    Hi Beef, I already feel like I know you as I have been following this forum for a few months now in preparation for the last couple of miles in my taper. I have been on 8mg subs for about 16 months and tapered down to 2mgs since December when I decided it was time to end this. I have done my homework and acquired a supply of supplements that most successful people have used here. I do not have access to prescription meds so OTC is what I will have to get by on. I have around 100 4mg strips and cutting info. Today is my first day at 2mg and it seems that I need to go for 2 weeks between drops to stabilize. I am a carpenter handyman and self employed so that will help me in some ways I hope. I will get a YMCA membership soon and I love to walk so I am as ready as I can be. I have gotten a lot of useful information just by lurking around this site. There are some decent support groups around here and I go when I can talk myself into it. At least once a week. Thanks for your quick response and I will try to stay accountable and not disappoint.

  4. #4
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Sounds great!! I also just did supplements and vitamins and otc meds. I'm a gobbler and I know if I would have gotten a benzo, or some other type of "comfort med" prescribed I'd have probably abused it. So I stocked up on most of the stuff from the Thomas recipe, some DLPA (amazing stuff by the way!!!!) And Imodium!!!!!!!. Then I just rode it out. I had to work through my detox and honestly it was the best thing for me, as much as I hated it at the time. It forced me to be active and move around.

    Meetings are great. It took me a little bit to find my home but I'm so glad I went back. It's been an amazing level of support and accountability for me. Keep going!! Keep posting!! You've got this. Like I said earlier it's a marathon not a sprint. Do it right this time so you don't have to do it again.

    Have a great day!!
    Beef
    10years39days likes this.

  5. #5
    Anonymous Guest

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    Happy Cinco de Mayo to all of you. This is my second day at 2 mg and the only thing I noticed so far is that I have anxiety and sweats when I first wake up. At this point I sleep ok and I'm not looking forward to the inevitable sleeplessness that is going to happen. It is what it is. I love these quiet early mornings (after I talk myself thru the anxiety) and the uninterrupted time of reflecting and planning the day. I started drinking Bullet proof coffee and I do notice the effect of a sort of calm focus without the coffee jitters that I usually get. Tastes great! Ordered Elimidrol day and night and hope it works as many say it does. I am 5' 11" about 150# and pretty healthy. Healthy changes make this a good thing.
    10years39days likes this.

  6. #6
    Anonymous Guest

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    Sunday morning; Day three at 2mg and although it is still a pretty high dose as far as tapering goes I did notice something interesting yesterday afternoon. There was something noticeably different in how I felt, kind of a deja vu this is familiar type of thing. As I thought about it I realized that this was my pre drug self breaking through the fog. It didn't last long but it was (to me at least) as if the Creator or ("Grand Puba of Life") was showing me that I am still in here somewhere. I hadn't noticed just how dead my emotions had become. I suspect that there is a roller coaster of emotional turmoil coming as I take less and less Suboxone. I moved here last June from Mpls. Mn. and haven't allowed anyone to get close at all. I gave someone access to my deepest self and it turned out very badly for me. I will never give anyone that kind of access again. My hope is that the people here will help me to get through this taper and at the same time start trusting again, because without both of these I'll just be wasting my time and yours. Does that make ANY sense? Anyhow, anyone reading this has my thanks. I will learn how to format this in a proper more understandable and readable way. Hope good things happen to you.

  7. #7
    Anonymous Guest

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    Monday morning; Day 4 and starting to feel some mild withdrawal. Took a long time to fall asleep and when I finally did it was restless and nightmare filled. I planned on going to a NA meeting last night but I balked at the last minute. I haven't revealed that I'm on suboxone because I know that some one is going to tell me that I am not clean and someone else will say that I am and probably sidetrack the meeting from its purpose. I don't want to cause dissention but I am also tired of hiding what is to me a double edged sword. First it saved my life and now it is pretty much controlling it. I want to be done with it and I am not going to be able to do it without some face to face support. I'll figure it out. my Elimidrol should be here today and I hope it is worth it (I don't have a lot of money to experiment with). I also have an apt with my sub doc thur and I will tell him then that I am tapering and hope he is helpful but I suspect that he would rather keep me on this stuff. At least that is what my gut is telling me based on our very short monthly visits. Thanks for your likes Beef and nice to meet you Lvg nightmare. I don't know if I am doing this posting thing correctly. Hope to get to know you better and want you to know that I will heed good advice. I don't know everything but almost! Hope the day is good to you.

  8. #8
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnie T View Post
    Monday morning; Day 4 and starting to feel some mild withdrawal. Took a long time to fall asleep and when I finally did it was restless and nightmare filled. I planned on going to a NA meeting last night but I balked at the last minute. I haven't revealed that I'm on suboxone because I know that some one is going to tell me that I am not clean and someone else will say that I am and probably sidetrack the meeting from its purpose. I don't want to cause dissention but I am also tired of hiding what is to me a double edged sword. First it saved my life and now it is pretty much controlling it. I want to be done with it and I am not going to be able to do it without some face to face support. I'll figure it out. my Elimidrol should be here today and I hope it is worth it (I don't have a lot of money to experiment with). I also have an apt with my sub doc thur and I will tell him then that I am tapering and hope he is helpful but I suspect that he would rather keep me on this stuff. At least that is what my gut is telling me based on our very short monthly visits. Thanks for your likes Beef and nice to meet you Lvg nightmare. I don't know if I am doing this posting thing correctly. Hope to get to know you better and want you to know that I will heed good advice. I don't know everything but almost! Hope the day is good to you.
    Welcome Lonnie!

    Hang in there and tough out these minor symptoms. In a couple days, you should stabilize. Being troubled with these symptoms throughout a taper is what makes it so difficult both physically and mentally. Just when you've stabilized and feeling well, it's time to make another drop and have to face some symptoms for a couple/few days all over again. Not a strong motivator to make a drop! If your symptoms begin to interrupt your life, you can consider making smaller reductions. Instead of the protocol of 25% reductions, there are those who make the decision to slow things down and make 10% reductions. If doing this will enable you to make regular reductions after four days, then you won't really be losing that much time and things should be easier. Worth a thought anyway.

    Meetings are important but almost everyone struggles with the varying opinion about whether you are clean or not because you are taking subs. Sometimes it's better to just not answer that question. When asked how long you've been clean, I'd just say very recently and leave it at that. The benefits of meetings are too great to avoid them in order to avoid this controversy. Just get there and the rest will fall into place.

    Keep posting. You're going to do great!

    Peace,

    Cat

  9. #9
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Lonnie. I was thinking. Your sub doc sounds a lot like mine. (As in he only really knew who I was on paper, and just wanted my money.) If that is the case, you may not want to share the info that you are tapering with him. Many sub docs see this as a long term solution and think patients should be on suboxone for the remainder of their life. I have heard from a few people stopping by with their stories that their doctor's became angry and I believe that a few of them even cut them off. I'm not trying to scare you in any way. But the sub doctor's who actually care about their patients are few and far between. If it were me I would just go in keep my head down, get that script and come back here. If you get a month supply that will be 240mg (30×8mg right?) That should be more than enough to finish your taper. And we can help you out with the math and cutting of the strips.

    Just some food for thought. Keep us updated!!
    Beef
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  10. #10
    Anonymous Guest

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    Tuesday Day 5; Hi everyone, Nice to meet you Catrina and thanks for your advice, I'll take it and find someone that I think I can talk to about the Suboxone and see where it goes from there. Hi Beef, You are probably right about my Dr. I have been building up a supply of subs and right now I have

  11. #11
    Anonymous Guest

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    Don't know how I did that, but right now I have about 100 4 mg strips and that should be way more than enough to taper. I look forward to destroying whatever is left at the end of this. I have to put a new fuel pump in my work truck, so I will talk to you all later. thank you all so much for being here!
    Beefaroni7272 likes this.

  12. #12
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Yeah 400mg is probably enough to do that taper several times over. Do you get any other prescriptions from this doctor, or just your subs? When I jumped the first thing I did was to get a new pcp for my blood pressure meds. Now a whole lot cheaper and don't have to make a 2 hour drive each way. I was happy to tell them I wouldn't be coming back!!

    Have a great day!!
    Beef

  13. #13
    Anonymous Guest

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    Day 6 at 2mg; Got my truck working again. I am having some trouble dealing with what my ex did and some days the thoughts just keep popping up and I have this edgy anger that I just cannot seem to get rid of. When it comes I know that I am in for about 8 hours of struggle. I guess this is not the place to go into detail ,but I just don't know how to deal with something that (for once) I did not create. Any how yesterday is gone and this is today. I got my Elimidrol yesterday and tried some of the night time and that stuff really works. It is a calming effect that really seems to take the edge off. I will try the daytime product before I leave for work this morning. Still unsure of how to deal with my sub Doc (he is a shrink) and I really had hoped that he could help me deal with all this junk in my head and life. I am leaning toward making tomorrow my last visit. If I do that then I will have no other choice but to do this taper to its end. Pretty daunting to say the least. Has anybody figured out a way to eliminate or at least lessen the depression and anxiety that happens when I first wake up?. It is a really negative way to start the day. I do struggle with this. I dose once a day first thing in the morning. They say there is light at the end of the tunnel and I believe that. I just hope that I packed enough food to survive the journey. Have a fruitful day.

  14. #14
    Anonymous Guest

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    Hey Beef; didn't see your post. Yea we tried a few different antidepressants and they just made me tired and more wacked out. I am really pretty healthy and fortunately don't have simultaneous issues to deal with. I don't want to ask him for anything. I don't really like the man. He seems secretive and I have to pry info out of him. doesn't seem like good medical practice to me.

  15. #15
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Hey Lonne. Look into DLPA. I took it during my detox, and still take it today. It's an amazing g amino acid that helps repair the brain after years of opiate addiction. It definately helps with mood, depression and energy levels. There's a bunch of info online about it. I know it worked wonders for me. Not sure how you want to handle your shrink. Have you looked into finding another one? That's a tough one for sure. Maybe cat or someone else can help you out with that one. If the doctor truly cares for you I'd say give him a shot, how long have you been seeing him? But there are plenty of good ones out there who would be willing to help you.

    Whatever you decide we got your back.
    Have a good one!
    Beef

    Just saw your other post. If that's the case I'd say just look for a new doctor. I know you can find one that's right for you.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 05-09-2018 at 07:45 AM.

  16. #16
    Anonymous Guest

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    Day 7 2mg; I am thinking about another drop today. Probably 10% , also going to tell my doc that this will be our last appointment and that I am getting off the subs. I have DPA, that is DLPA without the caffeine like effect that I get. The guy at the health food store seems to know quite a bit about withdrawal supplements and has been pretty helpful and has my trust. He isn't just trying to make a sale. All this stuff is expensive, but the drugs were a lot more for sure! The depression is the hardest thing for me to deal with. It runs in my family and I truly have no idea what a "normal" emotional state of mind is. I have spent my whole life with this incredible sadness just overshadowing even the happiest times. I am hoping that we can find the right combination of vitamins and supplements to get some long term relief. If it works for me I would love to share it with my mother and siblings. Maybe something good and helpful can come of this addiction. Kind of hard to be positive and optimistic all the time. I do want to get through this successfully and am willing to as they say "go to any length" to get it. I lost one of my younger brothers to "shotgun therapy" because of drugs and alcohol and I've no wish to seek peace the same way. I will get through this and you people give me great guidance and encouragement. Never thought I'd let it be known just how weak I truly am. I have to get my self pitying ass to work. See ya later.

  17. #17
    Anonymous Guest

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    Day 8 2mg; Well I had my appointment yesterday and told the doc that I want to get off subs and his response was that he was ok with me dropping down to 2mg and probably staying there at what he called a maintenance dose. Well I am at 2mg , but " I ain't stayin". I have decided to use the full 2 weeks between drops because it seems to take that long for the depression to stabilize to pre sub levels. At first the subs really helped with the depression, but after about 6 months that faded. I have the subs to do it and I guess I have the time at this point in my life. If anyone has an opinion or suggestion, I would encourage you to share it with me. What I'm trying here is mostly speculation based on how I believe my body is reacting as I taper and supplement. I cannot be sure though. Thanks and " watch yer top knot".

  18. #18
    10years39days is offline Member
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    Hey Anonymous,

    How are things going? Glad to see you've reached that 2mg milestone. If my doctor had his way, I would've been using Suboxone for the rest of my life. This is sad, because right now there are more people on Suboxone than ever before...and cumulatively that is a lot of suffering and pain. Don't get me wrong...Suboxone saved my life...and I thank my lucky stars for the pain doctor I had. He wasn't a bad dude...but he definitely didn't fully understand the drug he was giving me.

    As for the two weeks >>. one week tapering schedule idea...that really is just a personal choice. The only important/critical thing is that you don't drop your dose until you stabilize...and of course do not drop too much. It sounds like you're handling this like a champ. Keep up the positive attitude! You got this!

    -10

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