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Suboxone taper journal & help.
  1. #1
    Kicking74 is offline Junior Member
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    Default Suboxone taper journal & help.

    Suboxone taper journal & advice
    Hi everyone. I have been a LONG time lurker here. I have read as many threads on suboxone as I can, my eyes are burning. I thought I would post my journey so far and ask for some help.

    I started in pain management about 6-7 years ago. Started on vicodins and ended up on oxy 160mg daily. It has wrecked my life. I was running out of my script in a week. I would then scramble around trying to find whatever I can just so that I wouldn't be sick until I got my hands on some more, you know the drill. Its insidious. I need a change and I am ready. I am in need of some advice and some friends.

    I know that a lot of people can cold turkey their withdrawal, I can't. I admit that I am a chicken with no willpower to push through it, I have 3 kids and it's not an excuse, but I just can't do it. So I went to the suboxone doc who had no problem writing me out a script for 28 pills right away. I was told to take 2 a day, of course I know that was way too much. So here is what I did. I am sure I didn't do it the best way, but it was the best I could at the time. I hope I didn't set myself up for more trouble.

    Thursday I waited the 24 hours until I couldn't take the withdrawal any longer, I took about 2mg, an hour later still felt bad, so i took another 2, started feeling better, that evening I started getting very anxious and sweating, so I took the rest. That was 8mg for the day

    Friday, Saturday and Sunday I took 8mg. I was feeling tired the first few days. I am feeling stable now. I am sure I inducted myself probably with too much. I dont know why I ended up taking 8mg each day. I guess I was so afraid of being sick with anything less.

    Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday & today I took 6mg total. Split doses. 3mg and 3mg later.

    I have some stomach issues going on and sweating through the day. Today I have been feeling blah, like I'm missing my pills. It sucks that way of thinking.

    I am supposed to go back to the doctor next week but really don't want too. I am sure that I have enough pills left to do a taper, do you think so, I have 20? My reason for being so concerned is that I am scared since I am an addict, will I need to be on suboxone longer to train my thinking so that I don't want to take any pills? I always hear that withdrawal is the easy part, it's staying clean that is hard. I guess that is why people go on longtime maintenance?

    Anyway, I would love to get some advice. Thank you so much for reading!

    Oh, I've noticed that it makes me sleepy, is that common?
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  2. #2
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Welcome!

    Yes you are absolutely on too much. You haven't been there too long so here's what I'd do. Beginning tomorrow, take 2mg in the morning and another 2mg 8-10 hours later. Taking too much sub has its own side effects that aren't pleasant. It's not too late to get you on the right track but you've got to start right away. OK?

    With what you have left, you probably won't have enough to finish off a proper taper. Get another script but stay strictly to the plan outlined here. Together, you'll probably have enough but we can see where you're at before it's time to go to the doctor again. Prescribed 16mg/day!!! Geez.

    If subs are 30 times stronger than morphine, think about that--if you took 8mg of sub, that's 240mg of morphine. That math looks like this doctor steered you in the wrong direction. What do you think? I think so too.

    Check back. We'll help.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  3. #3
    Kicking74 is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks I will most definitely take 2mg tomorrow am & then 2mg in the evening. Will jumping from the 6mg to that cause me WDs though?

    These doctors really have no clue that giving someone 16mg a day is alot. I have a friend who has been on 24mg a day for almost 2 years!

    I didn't realize it was really that much I'm on since I've only been on it 8 days. 8mg for 4 days & 6mg for 4 days. Before that I was taking oxy for 7 years though.

    I just don't want to be addicted to subs & want off of them asap.

    I can get another 28 next week. I have 20 8mg left now.

    Thanks so much, I look forward to the help here, I need it!
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  4. #4
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kicking74 View Post
    Thanks I will most definitely take 2mg tomorrow am & then 2mg in the evening. Will jumping from the 6mg to that cause me WDs though?

    These doctors really have no clue that giving someone 16mg a day is alot. I have a friend who has been on 24mg a day for almost 2 years!

    I didn't realize it was really that much I'm on since I've only been on it 8 days. 8mg for 4 days & 6mg for 4 days. Before that I was taking oxy for 7 years though.

    I just don't want to be addicted to subs & want off of them asap.

    I can get another 28 next week. I have 20 8mg left now.

    Thanks so much, I look forward to the help here, I need it!
    I think you're going to be perfectly fine and probably will feel better. If you feel the same or little difference, just stick with it. It won't be horrible. Promise. This is the problem with addicts and opiates, and make no mistake--subs are opiates--we will over use them if we're given the chance still looking for the buzz. Not what this is all about and the feeling it gives you is much different. I'm sure you can tell that by now.

    You'll do great! Find Robert's Sub Taper Plan on this Forum and study it! You can skip the induction. You've done that part. Pay close attention to the taper plan. We, of course will help with questions. Glad you found us quickly before you became that guy who took that much sub for years! It just shouldn't be.

    Peace,

    Cat

    Peace,

    Cat

  5. #5
    Kicking74 is offline Junior Member
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    Yes I have read Robert's plan over & over. I'm going to do my drop tomorrow & hopefully I will feel better & not so tired. I hate feeling sluggish.

    I'm so glad I found you guys! I'm sure I will drive you mad with questions
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  6. #6
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kicking74 View Post
    Yes I have read Robert's plan over & over. I'm going to do my drop tomorrow & hopefully I will feel better & not so tired. I hate feeling sluggish.

    I'm so glad I found you guys! I'm sure I will drive you mad with questions
    You couldn't drive us nuts even if you tried. You have found a most wonderful place for support and knowledge from people who have been through what you have been through. Keep us updated and we will most certainly help if we can.

    Peace,

    Cat
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  7. #7
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    I was on subs for a total of 5 years trust me you don't want to be on subs for that long bc it sucks... A couple weeks or a few months to get your mind right isn't that big of a deal especially if you're dead set on quitting doing pills.. If your mind is made up that you want out of the pill cycle that is a lot of the battle. Speaking from personal experience my mind was made up in Oct 2015 that I was done with subs bc I was sick and tired of taking it. I went from taking 8mg a day to making a strip last 7 days sometimes 10 days and took that amount for roughly 10 months. Dropping that much quickly sucked for like a month but smoking greenery helped. I smoked daily for the next year too, which helped with the mental side of taking very little opiods/opiates something I wasn't used to since it was pretty much 8 years of being on pills and subs. Also,taking that small amount could be why my physical wd's were pretty much nonexistent. I only really dealt with the chills and sneezing for a week or so and both of those were very manageable. I haven't needed greenery at all during the last 60 days either. If you can get your mind in a clear place and keep your eyes on the prize coming off subs after not being on them for an extended period of time will be a lot easier than say going cold turkey from pills. You might experience some wd symptoms but if you aren't coming off of that high of a dose the wd's shouldn't be close to the full blown wd that we've all experienced from time to time. Just remember less is more with subs. Best of luck to you..
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    Kicking74 is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks Pen. I'm thinking that I could be jumping off the subs within 2 months, maybe less with this taper plan. WDs shouldn't be bad at that point should they?

    I'm trying to stay positive, it's hard. This evening I'm struggling a bit. I just keep reminding myself of all the >>>> that goes along with hunting down pills, running out & being sick. Ugh. I don't miss that!

    I don't like smoke, but I wouldn't be against it when I'm off subs completely if needed for a few nights.
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  9. #9
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kicking74 View Post
    Thanks Pen. I'm thinking that I could be jumping off the subs within 2 months, maybe less with this taper plan. WDs shouldn't be bad at that point should they?

    I'm trying to stay positive, it's hard. This evening I'm struggling a bit. I just keep reminding myself of all the >>>> that goes along with hunting down pills, running out & being sick. Ugh. I don't miss that!

    I don't like smoke, but I wouldn't be against it when I'm off subs completely if needed for a few nights.
    Kicking,

    Just trust the plan and you're going to do great. Don't stress. You're right. You should be done in 6-8 weeks. There may be some reductions that you'll have to hang on for an extra day or two especially when you get to the really low doses. You may have a day here and there after a reduction that you won't be 100% but you should always feel well enough to function. You'll do fantastic. I know it. Just trust the plan and have faith.

    Peace,

    Cat
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    Kicking74 is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks Cat. I trust it & will follow it. It's so scary not having that vice to go to. All the emotions I'm having are driving me crazy, I'm looking at my life & all the things I've "let go" that now I have to try to make right, it is overwhelming.

    I'm so glad I have you all here. People really need others & their advice when it comes to this stuff. I have nobody in my personal life that really understands. Thanks again!
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  11. #11
    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kicking74 View Post
    Thanks Cat. I trust it & will follow it. It's so scary not having that vice to go to. All the emotions I'm having are driving me crazy, I'm looking at my life & all the things I've "let go" that now I have to try to make right, it is overwhelming.

    I'm so glad I have you all here. People really need others & their advice when it comes to this stuff. I have nobody in my personal life that really understands. Thanks again!
    Oh have I got stories! I can keep you entertained whenever you need it. Overwhelmed? You wanna talk overwhelmed?!? Get past this and just like you're going to take this one day at a time, you're going to untangle your life one thing at a time. My first undertaking was my mail. Yep. Sound silly? It is but I was so satisfied when I got it done. You have to understand that for the almost 20 years that I used, I ignored my mail. All of it. That's when I learned how to pay my bills online. No way was I going to find a bill. I had 30 gallon trash bags of mail that was yearssss old stashed all over my house. All unopened. I didn't want to know what was in there. When I finally got to it, of course 90% of it got thrown in the trash. Found my birth certificate though--twice. I had to order it from out of state and never knew what "safe" place I had put them. Oh the trash. I could still have mail nightmares. These days I'm almost fanatical about mail. I bring it it and immediately sort it. Junk mail in the trash. Bills stacked in alphabetically order in a folder on my desk. Paid bills in an actual file cabinet. This project was only one of many. I had to let go of stuff that it was simply too late to do anything about and when I say let go, I mean let go. Worked at putting it out of my mind and forgiving myself.

    I learned to choose just one thing and get it done. Felt fantastic.

    Peace,

    Cat

  12. #12
    Kicking74 is offline Junior Member
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    Omg the mail!?!? I thought I was the only one! I have bills stacked in every drawer, thrown in piles, & late notices all over. That's one thing that is literally making me sick right now. Every time I wanted to quit using, that is the one thing that held me back along with the fear of WDs. What a mess we make. I'm so ashamed. I have to spend the day tomorrow calling to work out payment plans with everyone. Good thing I will have extra cash now. 30mg roxys are not cheap, but you know we always find a way to pay for them. It's a vicious cycle with these pills.

    Yes, 1 day at a time is all I think I can try to handle right now. If I look to far ahead, it makes me want to give up.

    My life is in such chaos right now. Its going to take a long time to fix it.

    Thank you so much, you have made me feel better & given me hope!

    Shelby
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kicking74 View Post
    Thanks Pen. I'm thinking that I could be jumping off the subs within 2 months, maybe less with this taper plan. WDs shouldn't be bad at that point should they?

    I'm trying to stay positive, it's hard. This evening I'm struggling a bit. I just keep reminding myself of all the >>>> that goes along with hunting down pills, running out & being sick. Ugh. I don't miss that!

    I don't like smoke, but I wouldn't be against it when I'm off subs completely if needed for a few nights.
    lol, I'm not advocating that you turn pot head or anything along those lines. That was just what I needed to go from the 8mg of subs to I guess what might have been 1mg or maybe 1.5 mg.. From 19 or 20 to 28 the only drug I did daily was greenery. Then in my mid 20's when the pill craze hit my suburb, I would take a few from time to time while I was bartending for energy or to put me in a super good mood bc dealing with drinkers while sober kinda sucks. I never did that many or took them daily bc I kinda knew better. Then when I changed to my career and the random drug tests started I was done with the greenery. 2 years later and 100% drug free an accident turned me into a pill head and pills turned into subs and now here we are 8 years later. For sure it's hard to stay positive especially while your body is going through an imbalance. But like I said earlier you have to try and get your mind clear ( I know it's difficult early on) and you have to really want to quit to be able too. For me going from pills to subs kinda changed my personal life to a degree. The things I once really enjoyed (eg. golfing, playing Texas hold'em, bowling league) while on pills I couldn't do on subs bc it just didn't seem as enjoyable. That is/was part of the mental game we all have to conquer. That only started to happen after maybe a year, so don't get freaked out that it's gonna effect you the same way bc everyone is different especially if you're looking at a short time on them. I don't know what kind of music you listen to but here is some of my playlist that helped me. Some of them are depressing songs, but depressing songs make me happy bc it's kinda refreshing knowing that others also struggle at times too. Also, I kinda flip the script; if it's a song about a love relationship gone wrong I just think about my opiate issues and I relate to it. Linkin Park- Breaking the habit, Shadow of the day.. Phantogram- When I'm Small, You don't get me high anymore..Blue October- Hate Me.. Alice N Chains- Nutshell, Pearl Jam- Black, Release, Immortality.. Creed- My Own Prision.. Staind- It's been awhile, Shinedown- Save me, Seether- Fine Again and the entire Eminem recovery album might be an addicts anthem, lol... Stay positive, try and keep your head, and smile bc we've all been there. You can do this!!
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    Kicking74 is offline Junior Member
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    Lol I know you weren't suggesting that. I do have lots of access to weed though. It was never really my thing, I hate to be tired & chilled out, but during WDs it would most definitely help.

    Music is a HUGE help. When I would be in WD after I blew through my script in less than a week, it would help me immensely for a day until I got more pills. You got good taste in music.

    Is it possible that I'm feeling WDs breaking through the subs? It's been 8 days since I've had an oxy.

    Also, if I stopped taking subs all together right now, would I still go through oxy WD or would it be sub WD? I'm not saying that's what I'm doing, lol. Just curious how it works.

    Thanks
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    Catrina is offline Diamond Member
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    Good Morning,

    What you're feeling might be the reduction. It shouldn't be bad and it will level out. Hang tough for a day or two and you'll level. The oxy is gone. Whatever you feel from here to the end is the sub.

    Have a good day, stay busy and try to to look for symptoms. I'll check in later.

    Peace,

    Cat

  16. #16
    Kicking74 is offline Junior Member
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    Hi Cat! I'm doing ok today but these headaches I've been having are driving me mad & I'm still so tired after the am dose! This am I took the 2mg & fell asleep again, what's up with that?
    Maybe I'm just tired.

    So since the oxy is gone, if I stopped everything would I feel sub WD? I am not doing that because I think I need some time to get used to not having pills. I would love just 1 but I know I won't stop there. I was never the person who could just take 1, I had to take them all!

    Yesterday a friend stopped over who still uses & I haven't seen her since I've quit, well she was a big trigger for me. I found myself talking to her about pills & I hadn't even been thinking about them. It's amazing what being around a person who you know has pills can make you feel like. One of the hardest things for me will be my mother in law, she was my dealer when I was out. Isn't that awful? Ugh. Such a mess. How do you distance yourself from family,

    Anyway hope your day is going good! Thanks for checking in.

    Ttyl

  17. #17
    Kicking74 is offline Junior Member
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    Good morning. Today is day 12 on subs. I started at 8mg & have been down to 4.5 for the past few days. I am REALLY struggling with tiredness in the am. I wake up around 5-6am & take my dose, I fall back asleep & struggle to stay awake until about noon.

    Then when I take the afternoon dose, I can get moving & can't fall asleep until late.

    I feel unstable. Any suggestions? It's interfering with taking care of my kids in the am. I'm starting to struggle a bit with it. I can't be tired like that. Ugh

    Thanks for any advice.
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  18. #18
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Hi there.
    If I were you I would not go back to sleep after you dose..
    i would take when I am up for good.
    I got in the habit of taking with my. Vitamins ..
    that way when I was done with my taper it would not be that
    big of a deal because I still had my vitamins to take .

    Maybe not the best way but it worked for me ..

    I read your thread I get you saying you miss your pills..
    I ended writing a good bye letter to my drug of choice which was opiates..
    it might sound crazy but they had become a major part of my life ..
    I felt like something was missing ..
    so the letter helped me because I wrote what I loved about them
    And
    How they destroyed my life.

    It made the process easier because clearly
    The bad outweighed the good..
    and seeing it on paper just made that decision so much easier..

    You will feel better when your dose gets lower.
    Most people feel better at 2 mg or less..

    But I really think if you just don't go back to bed after you take your am dose that will help!

    This is a great forum and a great place to taper..

    It will be 2 years since I jumped this month and I could not have done it without the people here!

    You got this!
    Bette

    Ps you have to drink lots of water on sub
    Because it can dehydrate you
    And dehydration headaches sux
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-16-2017 at 11:55 AM.

  19. #19
    Kicking74 is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks for the response. Thing is, I don't go back to bed. I get up with my hubby, he leaves for work, I sit on couch & have my coffee & fall asleep. I literally feel like I'm nodding. It's crazy.

    A goodbye letter sounds great. I may need to do that!

  20. #20
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Ok yea I thought maybe you later back down.
    Well you have so much sub in your body because of your dose.

    I know my dr started me at 24 mg .. crazy ..
    I just cut it in have every couple days till I got to 2 mg ..

    If you really don't feel good I might try skipping a day because of the half life..
    sub is strange
    And very strong ..

    I know you are worrying about wds but I don't think that is what you are feeling ..

    Just to give you an idea of strong it is ..
    most of us on here get to .0625 mg and do skip days ..
    that is a very small dose..
    what do u think about skipping a day now just to get some of it out of your system?

    It can work the opposite when you are on a high dose.

  21. #21
    Kicking74 is offline Junior Member
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    That's what I was thinking. I did just take the other piece for the day because we are leaving to go out but it was only 1mg. I was planning on going down to 3mg today. So it was 2mg early this am & now 1mg.

    So you think it's because I have too much in my system? I wonder why in the afternoon it does the opposite to me? Thanks for your help.

  22. #22
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    I am not sure why .
    But it does have a long half life and it was really important
    To take the dose at the same time everyday and if you are dosing 2 times a day
    8-10 hrs apart..

    When you get to 1 mg 1 time a. Day.
    It is strange because less is more
    That is a whole different way of thinking for most of us..

    It will never make you feel the way oxy did or any full agonist opiate..

    Once I got that in my head it made my taper much more. Doable..
    I was coming off on methadone after an accident and being on pills..

    I choose to stay on the sub almost 9 'months..

    But it will be 3 years since I got on the methadone in May..
    Honestly the best thing I ever did..

    I had piles of mail too!

    That is what I spent 8 months doing
    Redoing my whole life !
    Setting up a. Support system!

    Because all those years I told myself I was living and functioning but when I got clean..
    Boy was I surprised? Lol

    Just a little everyday of cleaning and organizing!
    One day at a time
    One pile at a time
    One drawer at a time!

    See how you feel later..
    try not to over think everything because not everything is wds related!
    Have a great day!

  23. #23
    Kicking74 is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you so much!

    So today I'm not taking anything else. Tomorrow am when I take my am dose, should I lower to 1mg & then 1mg in the afternoon, same time, and see if the reduction makes me feel better?? It will be 2mg. And then keep it at that until stable??

    Sorry for so many questions. This is trial & error!

    The mail sucks! I have some to go through tonight. Ugh
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  24. #24
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Yes that is what I would do..
    you might be pleasantly surprised!
    Ask as many questions as you want..

    Even though I am a nurse and support Drs 95% of the time
    I will say Drs are clueless about sub!
    Even the ones that prescribe them..


    Are you drinking water?
    Honestly sub dehydrates you ..
    Bette

  25. #25
    Kicking74 is offline Junior Member
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    They totally over prescribe subs. I'm supposed to go Friday to get 28 more! He wanted me on 2 a day. Of course I have 18 left because I didn't take what he said. I wasn't going to keep the visit, but just in case I need a few extras while tapering I'm going to go.

    Yes, I've been drinking water. More water than I have in a long time honestly. It's good for us anyway.

    I really hope to be off of these asap, but I do need to learn how to live without pills daily. It's an adjustment for sure. So I'm ok if it takes a little more time.

    Also I have such a sweet tooth since starting subs. When on oxy it would be back& forth with my diet, it all depended on my having pills or not. What a horrible way to live.
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  26. #26
    Iluv2smile is offline Platinum Member
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    Hello there..
    just checking to see how you are feeling today?
    Bette

  27. #27
    Kicking74 is offline Junior Member
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    Hey Bette, thanks for checking in. I'm having a rough couple of days lowering my dose. Have remained on the 4mg, split doses but tonight I took .5 in the evening. I couldn't get comfortable & feel so guilty now.

    I will say that I wasn't as tired this am. That was awesome because that is what is killing me these past few days.

    I'm wondering if I reduced to fast to begin with? I started at 8mg 4 days, 6mg 4 days, & my trouble started with dropping to 4mg...... maybe I inducted too high initially?

    Anyway thank you for checking on me. I'm still plugging along. Determined to do this.

  28. #28
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kicking74 View Post
    Hey Bette, thanks for checking in. I'm having a rough couple of days lowering my dose. Have remained on the 4mg, split doses but tonight I took .5 in the evening. I couldn't get comfortable & feel so guilty now.

    I will say that I wasn't as tired this am. That was awesome because that is what is killing me these past few days.

    I'm wondering if I reduced to fast to begin with? I started at 8mg 4 days, 6mg 4 days, & my trouble started with dropping to 4mg...... maybe I inducted too high initially?

    Anyway thank you for checking on me. I'm still plugging along. Determined to do this.


    Hey there Kicking -

    If I were you I would remain on the 4mg per day and get good and stable before considering reducing further. Reducing too fast is one of the major causes of wd symptoms popping up. 4mg is actually a large dose of sub and more than enough to keep you stable. So much of this stuff is purely mental and can mess with your head all the time. Have confidence in what you're doing and everything will be ok.

    Taking that extra .5mg won't really hurt anything, but it really didn't do anything either. It's so easy to reach for something extra when we're having difficulties. Try to stick with 2mg am and 2mg in the pm for the next several days. Only when you feel completely stable should you reduce by 25% down to 3mg per day.

    Take this slow and steady as it's no race. All you need to do is get there.

    Overall you're doing great!!!

    Randy
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-18-2017 at 09:10 AM.

  29. #29
    Kicking74 is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks Randy. I know 4mg is a nice size dose, but I'm wondering if the tiredness could be due to not being stable?

    I mean I slept from 1am-6:30am & took my 2mg, and have been struggling to keep my eyes open all morning. Yesterday was better, I thought it was getting easier, but after dosing this am, I'm not so sure again. I even took a caffeine pill!

    However once I take my next dose, I seem to wake up more. I don't know. Maybe it is too much for me. I've been on subs before a few years ago & was on 2 8mg a day , just for 2 months, but i was not tired like this.

    Something has to give. Yesterday my hubby was >>>>>> with me because I haven't been making dinner, I mean it's more like soup & sandwiches around here the past 2 weeks. Ugh. It ticks me off cause I'm trying to stay sober , & I'm struggling & everyone still expects so much. This is the main thing that I REALLY struggle with, I'm the one who does everything around here & if I can't get it done, I usually go back to my pills. I'm really trying to be positive.

    Sorry, I've rambled probably too much about my life. Just aggravated. Anyway, thanks again Randy & everyone else for the advice.

  30. #30
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kicking74 View Post
    Thanks Randy. I know 4mg is a nice size dose, but I'm wondering if the tiredness could be due to not being stable?

    I mean I slept from 1am-6:30am & took my 2mg, and have been struggling to keep my eyes open all morning. Yesterday was better, I thought it was getting easier, but after dosing this am, I'm not so sure again. I even took a caffeine pill!

    However once I take my next dose, I seem to wake up more. I don't know. Maybe it is too much for me. I've been on subs before a few years ago & was on 2 8mg a day , just for 2 months, but i was not tired like this.

    Something has to give. Yesterday my hubby was >>>>>> with me because I haven't been making dinner, I mean it's more like soup & sandwiches around here the past 2 weeks. Ugh. It ticks me off cause I'm trying to stay sober , & I'm struggling & everyone still expects so much. This is the main thing that I REALLY struggle with, I'm the one who does everything around here & if I can't get it done, I usually go back to my pills. I'm really trying to be positive.

    Sorry, I've rambled probably too much about my life. Just aggravated. Anyway, thanks again Randy & everyone else for the advice.

    Are you taking the sub at the same times each day?
    And what are those times?

    Randy

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