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Suboxone taper questions
  1. #1
    Anonymous Guest

    Exclamation Suboxone taper questions

    Hello all,

    I've been reading for quite some time, specifically material related to suboxone. I have been addicted to a plethora of different opiates... Mainly oxycodone and opana (oxymorphone). I went to rehab in May of 2013 and was clean for a very short period of time. I've been taking suboxone for around 4 months now at various doses. I achieve a euphoria at around 4-10 mg. I really feel like I screwed myself over with this compound. My knowledge is quite extensive regarding Buprenorphine. I know of the long half life and the nature of it's withdrawal. In my personal experience, the anxiety plays a much larger role in contributing to the overall agony. I've managed to taper to .75mg daily... I'm quite proud of that if I do say so myself. It's hard to believe that you can still feel so bad from what is perceived by many to be a small dose. My goal is to taper to as low as .125 mg and possibly jump from there. I just want to know when I should employ the "day skipping" part of my taper. I'm aware of a member named Robert who has helped many many people with this very same issue. I guess I really just want encouragement during this. I've been taking drugs since 14 and just turned 21. I'm so tired of hurting those I love and lying. I'm an honors student in college now and had to take this semester off. I told my family and friends and all those that I've lied to and hurt and most have been incredibly supportive, and I could talk all night about my hardships and pain due to my severe addictions. I truly hope someone will come along to help me. Thank you for your time, this is my first post on any thread.

  2. #2
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Welcome! Great job getting your down down to .75mg daily. So you want to know when the day skippig should be performed? That's the very last part of the taper plan written by Robert. Many use it, but some don't and simply jump when the dose is as low as it gets for that person.

    I'm a firm believer that the lower in dose you get your sub the better and softer the landing will be once you're off. If you can taper all the way to .125mg it will definitely be to your advantage.

    Lets say for example you do taper down to .125mg, or even .25mg. You would take that dose around 4 days making certain you're stable and feeling ok at the dose. Then the day skipping begins. Once you're stable and have at least 4 days on the final dose you skip dosing the very next day. Dose the following day then skip dosing 2 days. Dose again and skip 3 days. Dose one final time and that's it, you're finished!

    The half life catches up with itself, and you're mentally prepared to go without sub any longer. The day skipping is highly suggested, even though I personally didn't use it. Wish I would have.

    That's basically it. Here's the link to Robert's plan for you to look over. If you have questions let us know. Keep posting your progress and you'll receive lots of support. Take care.

    -Randy

  3. #3
    Anonymous Guest

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    Thank you very much for replying Randy. Its funny how many drug addicts I know that read these threads, but very seldom do they actually ask for help. I knew a long time ago this would be something I didn't want to do by myself. I've gotten down to .5mg doses before and decided to start the skipping process at that dose. I got around 48 hours and took my .5mg dose and I didn't really feel the agony go away. I just don't want to take a dose that wont give any relief but will be a set back in terms of my brain. Its just difficult this time due to the amount of time it takes. I'm really thankful everyone who's been through this is here to help and offer opinions. I know somewhere someone else is going through this too. That's a very comforting thought. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. Randy, what is the significance of "the half-life catching up with itself?" I know that spacing the doses out in such a way would basically slowly reduce the blood levels of bupe in my body. I just want to know if I am correct in my thought process? Such a huge part of this one is in the head.
    Randy35 likes this.

  4. #4
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    You betcha plenty of this overall process is mental. It usually is. Our brains can be our best buddy or our worst enemy sometimes. The trick is to believe what you're doing, or what someone might suggest is correct and go with it. We can second-guess ourselves and that will drive you nuts causing anxiety and a variety of symptoms. We can also over-think this process too. I've seen it many times and of course I did it too sometimes. It's never THAT easy!

    You have it right about the half life. The way to feeling our best is to get as much sub out of our system as quickly as possible. Due to the very long half life that can take a while sometimes depending on the person, and several factors like metabolism, fluid intake, physical condition, exercise, etc.

    The day skipping process lets you rid your system of some built up sub while not taking a dose every single day as you were previously. The days that you don't take a dose the half life is leaving or dissapating without accumulating more sub. Hope that make sense?

    Another thing I believe people forget, or might not understand at the time is the day skipping also helps you mentally prepare for life without sub for first 1 day, then 2 days, and 3 days. You get use to not taking a dose and that really helps in th end when you finally stop for good!

    If you follow the plan it's nearly painless. I will tell you theres no way of getting off any drug without having some type of symptoms. I've NEVER heard of ANYONE getting off totally free with NO symptoms. I had as easy a time as anyone has. I tapered down to .25mg and was gonna jump. I reconsidered and tapered once more to .125mg or half of .25mg. I didn;t use the day skipping, but sure wish I had. I had a few very minor symptoms that lasted for 7-10 days with only some lethargy and stomach issues. I had no problem with that after being an addicy and abusing drugs for over 17 years!!! Not a bad trade-off in my opinion!!!

    -Randy

  5. #5
    Anonymous Guest

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    Thanks for your help. I go to my Meetings all the time so I'm around people who have Been through or are going through similar situations. I know if there is people out there coming off worse drugs, then i can sure do this. I'm finally to the point of hatred towards drugs in general. It's such a cliche to say that I wish I'd have never even seen them. Anyways I really want to be done with this affliction so I can help someone else just like I was helped. Thanks again for your time. If anyone wants to offer up any more advice or opinions, I'm all ears.

    -Kyle

  6. #6
    Anonymous Guest

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    A quick question I've been pondering for a few days. I recently came across a suboxone taper calculator. The site I discovered it on seemed fairly knowledgable in their findings and info related to Buprenorphine stabilization periods, half life's, ceiling doses etc. etc...

    I entered my current dose which of course is .75 mg daily. The data set created for my personal taper indicated to me that, when ready to lower my dose by 25% (what I've come to believe is standard protocol once very minimal dose ranges have been reached) for 6 days. So that would be .5 mg.

    Once I've reached this dose it recommends staying here for 6 days. On the 7th day I reduce by another 25%, leaving me at a daily dose of .25 mg. this time it suggests remaining at this dose for 4 days as opposed to 6... And after those 4 days another reduction of 25% (the last one) leaving me at .125 mg. I'm to remain here for 3 days as suggested by the calculated taper schedule. After those 3 days it says not to dose for 2 whole days, and then has an optional dose of 2 full mg at the very end so as to take advantage of the half life of bupe without increasing tolerance, only blood levels. Why the reduction is amount of days as the dose lowers?

    Does this seem a good strategy to employ or should I taper to .125 and start skipping days progressively as previously recommended?

    -Kyle

  7. #7
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    In MY opinion I have reservations against that plan for a few reasons. It has you reducing by "X" number of days whether you're stable at each dose or not. That's a real problem and can easliy backfire. I wouldn't use this plan for that reason alone.

    And the 25% dose reductions are incorrect. From .75mg a 25% reduction is actually .56mg which should be rounded up to a dose of .60mg. Then the following dose reduction would be .5mg. You would be skipping one very important dose that could again backfire on you causing unnecessary symptoms.

    And from .5mg a 25% reduction would have you taking .375mg as the next dose and not the .25mg you mentioned. After taking .375mg for however long it takes to become completely stable and feeling good the next dose would be .25mg at that time. Again you would be skipping another very important dose.

    You really don't know in advance just how long it will take to become stable on each dose. These small doses are so tricky and important to the overall process and must be performed according to how stable you are and not reduce according to some predetermined number of days. Not a very good idea.

    I've never heard of that plan, but I've sure heard of Robert's plan used here. I don't know how many others have successfully used that "other" plan either, but I know that hundreds, probably thousands have used Robert's plan successfully.

    Theres no magic formula to this, but the taper plan we use is as good as it gets in my opinio. If you follow the plan closely, make your reducions correctly, stay at each dose for as long as it takes to become stable before reducing further, reduce as low as possible, skip days after the lowest dose, you'll have the easiest time possible once you're off for good. Of course it's always up to you what you decide to do.

    -Randy

  8. #8
    gogo83 is offline New Member
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    Hi all. Im on subs for over a yr now and ive been taking 2mg for 9 months. Now im down to 1mg or 1/8 of the strip. I def feel the drop and been on that dose for 8 days. Shall i drop more now? I feel joint pain bad at nightx sweat all day and tired but i guess its normal right? Im terrified of w/d cause ive tried getting off sub once before 2 yrs ago. I was then down to 2mg and did 5 days of detox at schick shadel. I was released after 5 days and felt good. I was happy but the hell started the 6th day at home. I puked for over a week and two er visits. I fear that.
    My addiction was 30mg percs totalling 5 yrs, max 90mg per day.
    Im so scared. I have bad anxity anyways but now i fear this. My number one complaint is the sweating and hot flashes but ive had them most of this yr on sub. Sucks huh?
    God bless n thanks for helping.
    I need advice on how to rip that dose lower than 1/8
    Last edited by Anonymous; 01-23-2015 at 06:20 AM.

  9. #9
    gogo83 is offline New Member
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    Hi all. Im on subs for over a yr now and ive been taking 2mg for 9 months. Now im down to 1mg or 1/8 of the strip. I def feel the drop and been on that dose for 8 days. Shall i drop more now? I feel joint pain bad at nightx sweat all day and tired but i guess its normal right? Im terrified of w/d cause ive tried getting off sub once before 2 yrs ago. I was then down to 2mg and did 5 days of detox at schick shadel. I was released after 5 days and felt good. I was happy but the hell started the 6th day at home. I puked for over a week and two er visits. I fear that.
    My addiction was 30mg percs totalling 5 yrs, max 90mg per day.
    Im so scared. I have bad anxity anyways but now i fear this. My number one complaint is the sweating and hot flashes but ive had them most of this yr on sub. Sucks huh?
    God bless n thanks for helping.
    I need advice on how to rip that dose lower than 1/8

  10. #10
    Anonymous Guest

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    Lowered to 62.5 mg yesterday. Felt great today. I'll wait until I feel stable at this dose before moving to .5mg...

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