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Suboxone/Zubsolv taper and need help!
  1. #31
    Walkley822 is offline Member
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    Randy, thank you. I’ve been in bed for two days with this migraine and I can’t afford it. I also have to move tomorrow so thank you for this suggestion. I’m going to try it ASAP.

    Yes I never got sick sick on opiates! That was one thing I may actually miss but the hell it created far outweighed any benefits = NOT worth it.

  2. #32
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walkley822 View Post
    Randy, thank you. I’ve been in bed for two days with this migraine and I can’t afford it. I also have to move tomorrow so thank you for this suggestion. I’m going to try it ASAP.

    Yes I never got sick sick on opiates! That was one thing I may actually miss but the hell it created far outweighed any benefits = NOT worth it.


    You're welcome, hope it helps.

    Add me to the list of those that never seemed to get sick on opiates. Just never seemed to be an issue when drugs were around which was all the time. I'm home from work now because I have the flu. Haven't felt this bad in a long time. Oh well, life at it's best and I'll be fine in a few days.

    Randy

  3. #33
    Walkley822 is offline Member
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    I think we’re in the same boat right now, Randy. I hope you feel better soon! Take care of yourself.
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  4. #34
    Wavision is offline Member
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    Well I've never had an opiate addiction, just sub, I feel like I haven't been sick at all for the past 5 years I've been taking it. I literally can't remember one time being sick. Weird.

  5. #35
    paronirick is offline Junior Member
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    Hi Randy. I've been reading and following your posts when I started my journey 5 days ago. I even started my thread "Help me Help others" in painkillers forum, hoping you might drop in with your wisdom and expertise. Please read my thread and I woukd welcome any feedback. Thank You
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  6. #36
    Walkley822 is offline Member
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    Happy to report my migraine has finally lifted. I feel an immense amount of relief. I can’t even describe it. I am experiencing some mild wd symptoms like sweating and insomnia but I don’t even care at this point. Just so grateful not to be in pain. Literally praying it doesn’t come back tomorrow.

  7. #37
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walkley822 View Post
    Today is day 3 at 1.7mgs. As expected, my third day was worse than the previous two days. I seem to always experience the same thing on my third day which is diarrhea and by the afternoon, I get this aching feeling behind my eyes which makes them red (so much so that people at work have even commented on it asking if I smoke in the car at lunch) and then that develops into a full blown headache. I’m hoping I’ll be stable by tomorrow so I can jump down to 1.4mgs on thurs but still too early to tell.

    What’s giving me the most anxiety currently is the fact that I have to move in with my in laws soon and I hate that I already don’t feel like my most comfortable self while on subs and now I really won’t feel comfortable living in someone else’s house while doing a taper off subs! Couple that with the high intensity of my husbands family and I’m in for a real treat. I would love to just lock myself in my room the whole time I’m there but that isn’t realistic (or is it?). I really underestimated the time it would take to taper off subs. I didn’t think it would take this long. I originally hoped to be off them by early Jan but I was way off.

    Also, someone posted in a thread several years ago that they noticed a decrease in their craving to smoke cigarettes while tapering off subs and getting nasseous (can never spell that word) from smoking them. I experienced the same exact thing and was wondering if anyone else did too? I used it to my advantage as an excuse to stop cigarettes altogether - another big victory along this journey. In fact, any time I’ve gone through wd, which have been too many times to count, I couldn’t even stand the smell of a cigarette. It’s like my body rejects all bad things. Has anyone experienced this?
    Hey there. Ive been lurking and keeping up with your progress. Randy has been giving you amazing advice as always. But I just wanted to poke my head in and say congratulations so far!!

    Also, for me, I was a smoker for god around 18 years. And once I made my jump. I'd say around a month and a half ish I'd go smoke a cigarette and it literally tasted like I was licking an ashtray. It was awful!! So I decided to quit. No problem right. Just quit opiates, how hard could it be? Holy Halloween it was tough. Made it a week, bought a pack, and then the next day when I was looking in the mirror disgusted with myself the next day I threw the pack away. Haven't had one since.

    Only once during my detox did I have a craving for a sub. But I knew it would only force me to do this gruelling process again, so that was it. But I still want a cigarette every day. Tobacco cravings are brutal. I was aaggressively smelling all the smokers in N GA. Sometimes still do. But food tastes better, I breathe better, and I know it's helping my overall health. So I'm not fgoing back. It's real tough but doable. But just like the subs, you have to want it, REALLY WANT IT!!!!

    Just my 2 cents.
    I'm so happy for you. Just keep doing what you're doing!!
    Have a great day!
    Beef

  8. #38
    Walkley822 is offline Member
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    Beef! Yes! Licking an ashtray. I understand that fully! I never used to have any problems quitting cigs in the past but this time was different so when subs (or rather withdrawals) gave me an out, I took it and fast. Why not quit everything at once. It was one more thing to be proud of myself for. And I do think about cigs every now and then but I don’t think about opiates ever. Tells you how strong of an effect they really have on people! And speaking of progress, I’ve gotten back to my regular weight finally. My face even looks different, less bloated, and more like my old self thank god.

    Anyway, I woke up today with no migraine and no sweating/chills. Soooooooooooo happy!!! I feel like a million bucks. Even so, I decided to stay at 1.7mgs one more day just to give myself a break. I’m going to enjoy feeling good today. Tomorrow I’ll drop to 1.4mgs.
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  9. #39
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walkley822 View Post
    Beef! Yes! Licking an ashtray. I understand that fully! I never used to have any problems quitting cigs in the past but this time was different so when subs (or rather withdrawals) gave me an out, I took it and fast. Why not quit everything at once. It was one more thing to be proud of myself for. And I do think about cigs every now and then but I don’t think about opiates ever. Tells you how strong of an effect they really have on people! And speaking of progress, I’ve gotten back to my regular weight finally. My face even looks different, less bloated, and more like my old self thank god.

    Anyway, I woke up today with no migraine and no sweating/chills. Soooooooooooo happy!!! I feel like a million bucks. Even so, I decided to stay at 1.7mgs one more day just to give myself a break. I’m going to enjoy feeling good today. Tomorrow I’ll drop to 1.4mgs.

    My Friend -

    You probably have no idea just how many people you've not only helped today, but given such an inspiration that they too can get off the drugs, or subs, and turn their life around. I know that hundreds of people will read your words today and maybe just one of them will take the initiative and do the best thing they could ever do for themselves.

    Hold on to today tight and thoroughly enjoy it as you certainly deserve it for all the hard work you've done.

    I promise you right now it only gets BETTER!!!

    Randy
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  10. #40
    Lvg nghtmare is offline Platinum Member
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    I'll second all that!!!
    It does get better...
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  11. #41
    Beefaroni7272 is offline Advanced Member
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    Yes, yes!! Put me down for a third to that!! Great job!!

  12. #42
    Walkley822 is offline Member
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    You guys are all so kind and supportive and I can’t thank you enough. Randy you brought tears to my eyes. If we can help anyone, we all win.
    I sure wish I had done this sub taper sooner but not much I can do about that now. To that end, I’ve seen a bunch of people on different threads struggle with the decision about whether to go on suboxone or not so I just wanted to provide my experience in hopes it helps someone else, perhaps someone struggling with the decision like I was over a year ago. Subs happened to be the best option for me even though I fought it for so long (I thought subs were the DEVIL) because my DOC was extremely unreliable when it came to both strength and amount. One or both would variably change depending on the week making it nearly impossible for me to taper myself regardless of sheer willpower. I fought to taper like this for well over a year just to not to have to go on suboxone because I, like many before me, had experienced precipitated wd’s (twice) from failed sub inductions so the mere thought of it was terrifying and created sheer panic. In fact, my last induction took three separate tries in two weeks because I was so scared and had one foot in and one foot out. But the last time stuck and it ended up being the best thing for me. Subs have allowed me to do a lot of things, including live the life I was missing out on, but the two most important are: it allowed me to taper correctly and it gave me the ability to look at myself in the mirror again and not feel extreme shame and failure. I probably sound like a drug rep right now and that’s not my intention because I do see how it isn’t always the best option depending on your situation and doc. It was in mine because my attempted taper drove me insane due to variables I had no control over. It was like I was doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result which just wouldn’t come. In the meantime, time just kept rolling on, months then years.
    Tapering off subs is no picnic either but at least it’s made by a company and you know you’re always going to get the same strength/mgs in each pill/strip without variables you have no control over.
    P.s. I cried writing this. It’s so hard for me to look in the rear view now that the future looks promising. Thanks for listening!
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  13. #43
    Wavision is offline Member
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    How has it been going for you Walkley? Just stopping by to see how you're doing....

  14. #44
    Walkley822 is offline Member
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    Wavision, I would love to say I was doing great right now. I’m stable at 1.7 and have been at 1.7 for 9 days now. The reason I stayed at 1.7 for so long was because I was sick last week and had to move out of my condo and into my in laws this weekend. My only problem now is getting through the next month or two. This next month is full of life changing events for me so my anxiety is on another level. I’m under more pressure now than I have been in last 4 years. Probably because I coasted for the last 4 years and now I’m having to make up for it. I have to be on my A game but my brain is still reacting a little slower than normal and my memory is starting to slide again so I’m panicking. I guess my point is, I waited until the worst possible time in my life to start this taper and I’m really upset I didn’t start it sooner. Dropping to 1.4 tomorrow. How are you doing??

  15. #45
    Wavision is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walkley822 View Post
    Wavision, I would love to say I was doing great right now. I’m stable at 1.7 and have been at 1.7 for 9 days now. The reason I stayed at 1.7 for so long was because I was sick last week and had to move out of my condo and into my in laws this weekend. My only problem now is getting through the next month or two. This next month is full of life changing events for me so my anxiety is on another level. I’m under more pressure now than I have been in last 4 years. Probably because I coasted for the last 4 years and now I’m having to make up for it. I have to be on my A game but my brain is still reacting a little slower than normal and my memory is starting to slide again so I’m panicking. I guess my point is, I waited until the worst possible time in my life to start this taper and I’m really upset I didn’t start it sooner. Dropping to 1.4 tomorrow. How are you doing??
    Just take it a day at a time and try not to overwhelm yourself. Great news to hear you are dropping.

    I'm doing good, just dropped to 1.5 yesterday, so today is my second day there. Let me know how your drop goes and good luck.
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  16. #46
    Walkley822 is offline Member
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    Wavision I’m so happy for you. You’re making this look way too easy!

    Just an evening update: I’m feeling really good physically. (Mentally I’m a basket case but only when I’m planning ahead. That’s pretty normal for me though. I’m wound kinda tight. Possibly the reason I was drawn to opiates like a magnate.) But I FEEL awesome. Best I’ve felt since I started tapering which is probably why I’ve been stuck at 1.7mgs for the past 9 days - I’m not ready to give up this feeling. It’s too good! Memory could be better, mornings are still rough, and my eyes are still red no matter how much visine I use, but I figure that is my new normal until I’m done with this for good.

    Side note: I can’t imagine not having this forum to go to during the good times and the bad. It’s helped me through so much of my journey over the last 2 months. I don’t know where I’d be without it and the help of everyone here. When I’m sad, the people here make me laugh and don’t even know they’re doing it. It’s the relatability that binds us all. We’re really lucky to have found each other.
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  17. #47
    Wavision is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walkley822 View Post
    Wavision I’m so happy for you. You’re making this look way too easy!

    Just an evening update: I’m feeling really good physically. (Mentally I’m a basket case but only when I’m planning ahead. That’s pretty normal for me though. I’m wound kinda tight. Possibly the reason I was drawn to opiates like a magnate.) But I FEEL awesome. Best I’ve felt since I started tapering which is probably why I’ve been stuck at 1.7mgs for the past 9 days - I’m not ready to give up this feeling. It’s too good! Memory could be better, mornings are still rough, and my eyes are still red no matter how much visine I use, but I figure that is my new normal until I’m done with this for good.

    Side note: I can’t imagine not having this forum to go to during the good times and the bad. It’s helped me through so much of my journey over the last 2 months. I don’t know where I’d be without it and the help of everyone here. When I’m sad, the people here make me laugh and don’t even know they’re doing it. It’s the relatability that binds us all. We’re really lucky to have found each other.
    Good to hear you are feeling great. I'm def feeling a little off today, but nothing too crazy. Today is my 3rd day at 1.5, so we will see how I feel tomorrow to see if I will drop on Thursday or not.

    On a side note, has anyone seen Randy in a little bit? Just haven't heard from him in a little and want to make sure everything is ok.

    Keep up the good work.
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  18. #48
    Walkley822 is offline Member
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    First day at 1.4 and pretty uneventful. Because I had to get up 2 hours earlier than usual and take my first dose at that time, I needed my second dose two hours earlier. So around 2pm I had to take a tiny bit extra to carry me to 6pm (my second dose of .7). Hoping tomorrow goes just as smoothly.

    I have not heard from Randy since last Thursday so hoping he’s ok. It’s really amazing he’s been able to be such a support to us all that his absence is definitely felt.
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  19. #49
    Randy35 is offline Platinum Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walkley822 View Post
    First day at 1.4 and pretty uneventful. Because I had to get up 2 hours earlier than usual and take my first dose at that time, I needed my second dose two hours earlier. So around 2pm I had to take a tiny bit extra to carry me to 6pm (my second dose of .7). Hoping tomorrow goes just as smoothly.

    I have not heard from Randy since last Thursday so hoping he’s ok. It’s really amazing he’s been able to be such a support to us all that his absence is definitely felt.


    Hey -

    I'm here. Been very sick with the flu. Thought I had developed pneumonia but just the flu with a nasty respiratory infection to boot. Anyway I'm here if you need me.

    Many thanks for your concern.

    Randy

  20. #50
    Walkley822 is offline Member
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    Today is day three at 1.4 and so far everything seems to be going OK. I took my first dose of .7 at 7am. Slight stomach issues today but that’s to be expected on day 3. Mentally I’m in a good place and I’m not feeling down or stressed so I can’t really complain. I did take longer than usual getting out of bed today but that’s to be expected on day 3. Hopefully the rest of the day goes smoothly until I dose again at 4/5pm. Ive decided that I’m not going to rush this process and I’m going to stay on each dose for as long as I feel comfortable, esp when I get down to 1mg and below.
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  21. #51
    Wavision is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walkley822 View Post
    Today is day three at 1.4 and so far everything seems to be going OK. I took my first dose of .7 at 7am. Slight stomach issues today but that’s to be expected on day 3. Mentally I’m in a good place and I’m not feeling down or stressed so I can’t really complain. I did take longer than usual getting out of bed today but that’s to be expected on day 3. Hopefully the rest of the day goes smoothly until I dose again at 4/5pm. Ive decided that I’m not going to rush this process and I’m going to stay on each dose for as long as I feel comfortable, esp when I get down to 1mg and below.
    I have the same plan....taking it slow. No need to rush things and make them worse than they need to be. I'm right there with you on the getting out of bed thing today, but it could be a lot worse. With every day we are slowly healing ourselves.

    Keep it up.

  22. #52
    Walkley822 is offline Member
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    Just wanted to drop a line about Zubsolv this evening. I always knew zubsolv had a higher bioavailability factor making it even “stronger” than suboxone (hard to believe I know) but I didn’t understand how much stronger it was and what the conversion rate was until the other day. It’s about 42% stronger than suboxone or subutex. When I started out taking 5.7mgs of zubsolv around thanksgiving 2017, I eventually realized I was really taking the equivalent of 8mgs of suboxone (and I had no idea at the time.) So I have essentially tapered down from 8mgs to 2mgs (even tho I currently take 1.4mgs of zubsolv = 2mgs sub) over the last two months. I haven’t seen many postings about zubsolv so I wanted to make sure I posted about it to let others know it’s EVEN stronger than regular subs. So if anyone is on this stuff, make sure to taper even further than you were originally planning before making your final jump - add one additional drop. Ughh Why do they have to make this so confusing?
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  23. #53
    10years39days is offline Member
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    This must be discouraging for you, I'm sorry. Sounds like you are on top of it and not gonna let it affect your progress!

    Just an fyi - I hadn't heard of Zubaolv until you started tour thread. I wonder why its not mentioned more frequently.

  24. #54
    Walkley822 is offline Member
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    It is discouraging. It’s also frustrating. You think you’re actually getting somewhere and you’re behind more than you think you are. Today is day 4 on 1.4 and it’s going ok

  25. #55
    Walkley822 is offline Member
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    Im honestly going to pretend it’s the same dose as regular subs until I get down to the super low doses

  26. #56
    Walkley822 is offline Member
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    Took my first dose at 6am this morning and felt I could have climbed the walls before I took it. I usually experience withdrawals every morning upon waking up but this morning was more intense. I usually dose at 7am but this time I just couldn’t wait it out the extra hour. Even now, after taking that dose I have a slight headache and wish I could dose again now to double the amount because I know I would feel better, but I won’t. This is day 5 for me at 1.4 and I should be feeling better by now so this is a little discouraging. Esp because the first few days were easier for me so I was hoping I could at least have one easier drop - but not going to happen for me. I was planning on dropping again tomorrow but now I’m not entirely sure what to do. Guess I need to wait it out. This is a little off topic but I feel a slight buzz from sub about 2-3 hours after I dose that I know I’m going to miss when this is all over. It feels like the sub is “hugging” my brain. That’s the best way I can describe it. I usually can’t feel it after I drop for the first couple days but around day 5 or 6 I can and that’s when I know I need to drop again.

  27. #57
    Wavision is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walkley822 View Post
    Took my first dose at 6am this morning and felt I could have climbed the walls before I took it. I usually experience withdrawals every morning upon waking up but this morning was more intense. I usually dose at 7am but this time I just couldn’t wait it out the extra hour. Even now, after taking that dose I have a slight headache and wish I could dose again now to double the amount because I know I would feel better, but I won’t. This is day 5 for me at 1.4 and I should be feeling better by now so this is a little discouraging. Esp because the first few days were easier for me so I was hoping I could at least have one easier drop - but not going to happen for me. I was planning on dropping again tomorrow but now I’m not entirely sure what to do. Guess I need to wait it out. This is a little off topic but I feel a slight buzz from sub about 2-3 hours after I dose that I know I’m going to miss when this is all over. It feels like the sub is “hugging” my brain. That’s the best way I can describe it. I usually can’t feel it after I drop for the first couple days but around day 5 or 6 I can and that’s when I know I need to drop again.
    Hey Walkley, hang in there. Don't get discouraged, and only drop one you're stable. It doesn't matter if it's 4 days or 10 days. All that matters is you are moving in the right direction.

    I remember reading that if you rush it and drop before being stable, then those symptoms will follow you for the rest of your taper. So take it as slow as you need to and try to keep your mind busy.

    I know what you mean about the "buzz". This is why I started taking subs, because they gave me a buzz. I've never had a previous opiate problem or anything like that, just subs. I know this seems weird to some people, but it def gives/gave me a high/buzz and that is why I kept taking it. I did not get on it to get off opiates or anything else. I too will miss this and need to mentally prepare for this.

    Keep up the good work!

  28. #58
    Walkley822 is offline Member
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    Wavision, I totally get how you could start up with subs. It’s a pretty nice feeling if I must say so myself. It is an opiate after all - even though partial agonist. And I too will have to mentally prepare for this. I read in someone else’s thread where you said you started taking subs because you felt less social anxiety and I have to admit, that was probably the main reason I liked opiates myself. I’m a pretty anxious person by nature. I’m outgoing and was always considered “popular” but I always had lots of social anxiety where I felt I had to “push” myself out of my comfort zone constantly to act more “normal.” Im constantly overthinking things and over analyzing and I have a hard time getting out of my own head and opiates helped me tremendously in that way. Just to calm down a bit. So I understand you completely. I actually used to have panic attacks walking into really crowded places (my friends thought that was really weird and it was I guess). But that’s been my life and opiates gave me a way out where I could just chill out. The usual things that would get my stomach twisted in knots didn’t happen any longer and it was a really nice break. But the break is now over and it’s back to real life. It was nice to see how the other half lives though :-)

  29. #59
    Wavision is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walkley822 View Post
    Wavision, I totally get how you could start up with subs. It’s a pretty nice feeling if I must say so myself. It is an opiate after all - even though partial agonist. And I too will have to mentally prepare for this. I read in someone else’s thread where you said you started taking subs because you felt less social anxiety and I have to admit, that was probably the main reason I liked opiates myself. I’m a pretty anxious person by nature. I’m outgoing and was always considered “popular” but I always had lots of social anxiety where I felt I had to “push” myself out of my comfort zone constantly to act more “normal.” Im constantly overthinking things and over analyzing and I have a hard time getting out of my own head and opiates helped me tremendously in that way. Just to calm down a bit. So I understand you completely. I actually used to have panic attacks walking into really crowded places (my friends thought that was really weird and it was I guess). But that’s been my life and opiates gave me a way out where I could just chill out. The usual things that would get my stomach twisted in knots didn’t happen any longer and it was a really nice break. But the break is now over and it’s back to real life. It was nice to see how the other half lives though :-)
    Yep, the exact reason I started taking it. It kinda numbed out the anxieties and allowed me to feel more freely in the beginning. However, towards the end it has kinda made me become a hermit and just want to stay home all the time. It kinda scares me to go back to facing life 100% sober, and I will have to re-find myself again. I know this will take some time.

    One good thing I have working for me is that I was never hooked on opiates or h or anything else, so it's not like I'm going to be craving a very strong buzz or rush....

    Don't get me wrong, I have tried almost every drug out there, but never got hooked on anything until I started taking subs just on weekends, then eventually everyday.

    One day at a time, one foot infront of the other, heading in the right direction. We will get there together and hold each other accountable.

  30. #60
    David256 is offline Member
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    Wa & Walk,
    Y’all spelled it out. Lowers anxiety for sure.

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